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RJ Harris: We Need to Destroy the Leviathan, Not Remake it in Our Image

C4L gives a neo-con $350,000 in campaign assistance while real Liberty Candidates like Jake Towne, Adam Kokesh, Debra Medina and myself (all frequent posters on this site) get nothing from C4L when that much money could win several of these seats for Ron Paul Republicans?! Why is this…because Debra is not connected with the "right" people; Jake is running independent because of the corruption in the PA GOP; Adam is militantly anti-war; and I have the audacity to challenge an incumbent Republican?

Meanwhile the GOP runs a neo-con against Ron every cycle and yet we are to believe that he cannot do what is being done to him? Much has been made about the notion that we should stop drinking the establishment kool-aid and vet/support candidates based on positions actually taken in support of the Constitution, individual Liberty and state Sovereignty.

Are we then to exchange the current establishment for one run by men like John Tate who has now shown that he is willing to give away hard won ground for the cause of Liberty to curry favor with our enemies before our champions can even fully take the field? Fellow patriots the time has come to practice what we preach and to directly support those candidates delivering on their promise to fight for the Republic and give no quarter.

Stop waiting for the John Tates to tell you what to do or to whom to donate. Stop supporting men because of their last name or their fame and instead support candidates because of the consistency and purity of their message and the worthiness of their cause: freedom.

C4L is what it is because we have made it so...because we believed that what was needed was a vehicle with which we could replace the establishment. But my friends, we don’t need to rebuild the leviathan in our own image. WE NEED TO DESTROY IT! We need to vote with our time, money, and votes and we need to get our friends and neighbors to do the same. Our donations and our votes WILL win the day and when they do, these Liberty Candidates will owe their seats to We the People that put them in power, not the parties and not the C4L.

Please stop sending your money to organizations promising you the moon but delivering cheese. Read and vet the candidates yourselves and send them your donations and votes, directly cutting out all the middle men, aka influence peddlers, from the political process. When the office holders fear the people's voting/donating power more than the political influence of disparate political groups, then we shall have our Republic restored.

RJ Harris
Constitutional Conservative Republican
U.S. Congressional Candidate
Oklahoma 4th District

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Debbie's picture

R.J. attacks both Rand Paul

R.J. attacks both Rand Paul and Ron Paul.


RJ -- I agree with the OP title

What you have not realized and what many on this site are failing to realize is that you cannot use Corporatist means to over-throw a Corporatist Regime.

Voting and Lobbying (the ballot box) are Corporatist Controlled.

Voting and Lobbying is an abdication of self-rule and consumer-consciousness; it is also the purchase of a politicians vote.

Corporatism is Perpetual War
Voting and Lobbying is Perpetual War
----Liberty comes from neither.

You are a welfarist like all other politicians.
----Ron Paul had a very viable private practice, he did not need to be a politician; he's a very pure man and principled.
----We do need ONE public educator and it takes years to get into that role.

C4L and RP supporters have wasted enough money on voting and lobbying.

We need to get into Counter-Economics and Consumer-Consciousness decision making.

Good luck on your career outside of politics.

tasmlab's picture

What do you know Mr. Harris

Dear Mr. Harris,

For some reason I assumed that the dozen or so liberty candidates (like the ones that have the little banners on this site) had some formal relationship with C4L.

Have you asked or spoken to them about obtaining their funds or them spending dollars for you? (I don't ask this as a chllenge or statement, just genuinelly curious about the interaction between C4L and liberty candidates.

And besides getting surveys and petitions in the mail (complete with double-spaced courier type and fake handwriting and all those other contrivances that come with donation collecting) how does C4L manifest itself in action?

Do they get credit for the 1207 co-sponsors?

Or am I missing what they are doing?

Related, I come to THIS site three times a day to see what it going on in the liberty world, not C4L.


Currently consuming: Harry Browne, Free Domain Radio; JT Gatto and Holt; Wii U

To R.J.:


I'm a big supporter of Liberty candidates, Ron Paul, and still C4L, though more cautious perhaps.

But let me reciprocate and give some advice, if you will allow me:

1) One of the chief reasons why you even have a chance to win is because of Ron Paul, who created C4L.
2) One of the chief reasons Liberty has a chance is because of Ron Paul.
3) One of the chief reasons Ron has been successful is for NOT doing things like you have done, and that is being divisive.

Let me say, you and I are very much cut from the same cloth. We call a spade a spade, are probably less tolerable of enemies of freedom than most.

At least that's my nature. Some of that is well and good, but one thing I admire about Ron Paul, in fact, probably the biggest thing I've learned from him over the years (and I'm 42), is that he is a gentleman, meaning, he does not attack personally, but he does attack ideas. He avoids name-calling like the plague, and instead has laser focus on espousing true principles.

I would say this attribute (the ability to not get "nasty" or personal with those who differ with him) is the #1 reason that explains his rapid ascendancy to prominence nationally and even worldwide. And keep in mind that it has taken almost 40 years of this type of demeanor and strategy to bear fruit.

I mean, for goodness sake, Barney Frank (probably one of the most leftist, evil, perverse men alive) calls Ron a friend. This amazes me. But this shows Ron Paul's love for people, though he disdains the sin.

There is a lesson here, even for you, an intelligent, right-thinking (probably right on 99% of things since you are a student of Liberty and true principles of government). I think it may be wise to not attack personally or rush to judgment, but stick to the principles instead.

And I do not see why you would engage in a veiled attack on the man who shares the same last name as his father, Rand I assume you're speaking of. I don't think you can expect every Liberty candidate to be exactly alike. And the thing is, you and Rand may be pretty much exactly alike, but may differ in strategy or approach. There is a role for "politics" even if you're Thomas Jefferson or George Washington. That doesn't mean you've sacrificed principle.

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a rEVOLution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

very true

Good point with Jefferson.

When he drafted the Declaration of Independence he was an abolitionist. However, for political expediency he had to remove clauses that frowned on the principal of slavery. This was to help bring southern support on board. He expands upon his thought process on this in his autobiography.

I also don't agree with the statement that we are not trying to remake the Leviathan in our own image and that we are trying to destroy it. My take is that we are not trying to destroy our societal structure, we are trying to rebuild a new one out of the wreckage of the old.

To quote Robert Pirsig

To speak of certain government and establishment institutions as "the system" is to speak correctly, since these organizations are founded upon the same structural conceptual relationships as a motorcycle. They are sustained by structural relationships even when they have lost all other meaning and purpose. People arrive at a factory and perform a totally meaningless task from eight to five without question because the structure demands that it be that way. There’s no villain, no "mean guy" who wants them to live meaningless lives, it’s just that the structure, the system demands it and no one is willing to take on the formidable task of changing the structure just because it is meaningless.

But to tear down a factory or to revolt against a government or to avoid repair of a motorcycle because it is a system is to attack effects rather than causes; and as long as the attack is upon effects only, no change is possible. The true system, the real system, is our present construction of systematic thought itself, rationality itself, and if a factory is torn down but the rationality which produced it is left standing, then that rationality will simply produce another factory. If a revolution destroys a systematic government, but the systematic patterns of thought that produced that government are left intact, then those patterns will repeat themselves in the succeeding government. There’s so much talk about the system. And so little understanding.

As to your question about Debra...

...not being connected with the "right" people, according to the C4L website, Debra Medina is on their Board of Directors.


5 stars

terrific letter RJ Harris!

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

To R.J.

In reading your comments I certainly can appreciate your intentions. It is obvious that you are not happy with the status quo. It is also obvious that you take pride in your ideals and are actually doing something to bring effective change.


Having run businesses of my own and working with employees taught me a valuable lesson. And that lesson is - look don't listen.

This means that when your hear something, especially what appears to be alarming, you must restrain the compulsion to jump and react. You often may find that what you first heard is not the complete story or often altered.

I have read a lot of the posts and reactions and I find that not enough data was presented to warrant a trashing of C4L or it's leadership.

I am not professing that mistakes weren't made either. But this internal divisive commentary being left here can be more destructive than the actual action complained about in the first place.

You have to investigate, bring all facts to hand, then act accordingly. In my opinion good leaders not only set sites on worthwhile goals but contain the resulting confusions that occur on the way to that goal. Certainly in a task as large are re-republicing (my own-term) the United States, there will be confusions that arise, not only externally but very often internally. To expect anything else would be naive.

One of my attractions to Dr. Paul as a candidate is that he has the uncanny ability of spending time attacking thought and philosophy without unnecessarily setting his targets on the individual. If we support the concept of individuals and individual liberty then we support the concept of justice where a person is innocent until proven guilty and we dispense of witch hunts and group think and group anger.

As one voice - appeal to my reason not my anger.

It's not even what they did

It's not even what they did so much as WHO they ended up backing.

If this survey had been extended to a Liberty Candidate and the money allocated to someone in the Libety movement (and it's not like it's that hard to find a liberty candidate!) then we would have been applauding and celebrating.

We're not applauding or celebrating. I saw a CFL logo at the end of a Neocon's advertisement/commercial/marketing ad --whatever you want to call it.

The Mindset of Joe Citizen: Wow, CFL is backing this candidate! I have heard of CFL! That's the Ron Paul Group! I like Ron Paul! This guy must be a good guy!

Thank you CFL for letting your Logo be put on the back of a pro-war neocon's ad.

Period. The end.

Do all of yourselves a favor and vote for a Liberty Candidate today.


It is not that I don't

understand the frustration at having a candidate with a pro-war view connected to C4L.

It is a definite judgement call on whether those Colorado individuals money should have been accepted at all. There is possibly a new internal policy that needs to be made from all this.

However, the reactions are blowing this out of proportion.

I feel RJ is sticking his own foot in his own mouth, not by the exception he is taking, which again is somewhat justified, but by the way he is going about it and to the lengths of action he advocates to mirror his animosity.

Also a mistake on his part.


I went to your site GiGi and it was crafted EXACTLY like
it should be.... your very first paragraph set the focus where it NEEDS to be.... where they are "cloaking" themselves.
And the "vetting" process should continue.... true liberty candidates should WANT to have a COMPLETE issues tab... it should be at the very CORE of their campaign.... the principles APPLIED to the issues... including War and Empire. Keep up the good work.
I would throw this in as well. It is elemental in a Republic that the Government fear the people.... as we "hold the line" and let the Candidate KNOW we are SERIOUS about Non-Intervention.... they will begin to fear US... more than the GOP brainwash and power brokers... and that's GOOD thing. Who knows.... candidates like Rand,Schiff and Hedrick sure as hell know where we stand.... and will act accordingly :)

i support rj's approach, as well as other individuals'

the whole message of the liberty movement is to avoid collectivist action.. "we", "we". every candidate has its own approach and it should be pretty obvious this liberty movement started as an education tour, with one of its central core message being "diversity is strength". some individuals are working very hard to turn this into a political movement now, but the movement started as an education tour, and it will remain that way. a collectivist approach to get every candidate's every word and every vote in line isn't likely and education has a much better success chance than political armchair critique.

just like the tea party organizers who were interviewed by katie couric recently said, "tea parties are very diverse on some social issues and if someone ever tried to unify it, they will just fall apart. what unifies us is the economics." the message is quite similar here. there is no uniformity and the result of individuals of the liberty movement taking a more strict stance on the constitution is a result due to education, not blind loyalty or a pledge of allegiance. i've never pledged an allegiance with conspiracies and purist anarchist for one example.

if self-purist wish to speak their mind, everyone knows the first amendment. but your attempt to turn this into a uniform political movement will almost unquestionably fail if all the examples thus far have not made you realize. i don't have all day and eventually my goal is to work in cutting edge science and academics and use my investing knowledge to improve the society's standard of living, broadly speaking, you know, the things that are useful.

i suspect many share the desire to just live and contribute in a more fruitful manner other than armchair bickering on every stance and politics. if this is all the 3% purists live for and it serves their daily entertainment to have this go on forever, i must be glad i never took any pledge because i do wish to see something more worthwhile accomplished in my lifetime.

and i would advise you to keep political bickering off the front page and focus on what people don't already know, michael. it was the education that solidified a liberty movement but this isn't a personality fetish fest, and any attempt to turn this into a politically skewed effort is very likely to fail, or actually it absolutely will.

i am seeing a lot of missing names from those i used to read from when they educated the trolls in the forum with very informative posts, and i very seldom see philosophical comments anymore, and i haven't heard from many good posters in a while. many will begin to consider to look for other more informative places to go strictly based on bringing the latest news on policies and government intrusions and such, if they haven't already. it's time to reconsider where you want to go--education or politics. civil disagreement or coercive grandstanding.

Excellent response...

You've said it for me.

The Virtual Conspiracy

Brilliant. I like RJ more

Brilliant. I like RJ more and more every time he posts. For those of you who caught it, he indeed took a clear shot at Rand Paul the sellout watered down neocon. I appreciate that because it is literally sickening to me that Rand is getting a robot like support from "Paultards" who can't seem to figure out that Rand is NOT Ron. He's an ignorant phony who seems willing to compromise on even the most heinous of human acts, WAR, just to curry favor with the bloodthirsty GOP who have an orgasmic love of the military and a taste for Muslim children's blood.

Enough is enough!

A lot of the selling out has

A lot of the selling out has to do with the fact that if you run as a Republican to get the Republican vote...in the end, you have to sell your soul to the devil in one way or another.

Ron Paul, my hero, has to back Lamar Smith instead of Liberty Candidate Stephen Shoppe because he had to make a promise to back Republican incumbants right?

Little by little you sell your soul to win favor with the Republican Party.

The Tea Party Folks sold their souls and voted in Scott Brown instead of Joe Kennedy....

eventually each one will COMPROMISE in some way

I still have faith in Adam Kokesh. RJ....I have faith here....

but I'm losing it more and more every day and the Ken Buck debacle is just helping me to teeter on the edge.

Vote for Liberty Candidates! Candidate not Party http://gigibowman.wordpress.com/2009/12/27/liberty-candidate...

sellout, watered down neocon?

Excuse me..

We didn't see any of this type of posting until some of Rand's comments on foreign policy. True, they may not be ideal but a Neocon?

No sir, not by a long shot.

If you think he is a Neo-con than you must have missed his other several thousand comments.

This appears to be the same type of angry, shoot from the hip rhetoric that sends mobs in different directions attacking enemies.

You espouse your distaste at heinous acts of war, yet the angry commenting speaks no love of peace either.

I have my doubts about some of the folks posting on these pages as to goals they actually harbor. This willingness to fly off on a divisive tangents appears to not be a creative impulse but a destructive one.

If you don't like what Rand is saying send him a letter. But throwing his progress in the waste can is not very rationale.

Debbie's picture

Well said bgodley.

Well said.


i still support rand, so..

are you going to propose some group collectivist action now and criticize anyone who steps out of line? or are you going to leave the liberty, "individual-choice" movement and start your own?



~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

RJ Harris

well said Sir.

Debbie's picture

"Fellow patriots the time has

"Fellow patriots the time has come to practice what we preach and to directly support those candidates delivering on their promise to fight for the Republic and give no quarter."
I already do this - the C4L does not preclude this.

"Meanwhile the GOP runs a neo-con against Ron every cycle and yet we are to believe that he cannot do what is being done to him?"
This is an attack on Ron Paul directly.
I thought it was supposed to be about C4L - what is your intention here?

"Stop waiting for the John Tates to tell you what to do or to whom to donate. Stop supporting men because of their last name or their fame"
I have never waited for John Tate or anyone else to tell me what to do or to whom to donate - nor have I supported men because of their last name or their fame - why do you assume that I or anyone else does this? This is an insult to our intelligence. You act like none of us can vet candidates or think for ourselves.


post removed...

post removed...

I havent given to anyone in a long time

but you have inspired me Mr. Harris and I hope everyone on Daily Paul does the same!!

Dear Frank Frank,

Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your contribution! Please consider purchasing some RJ Harris merchandise too. http://www.cafepress.com/rjharris

Contribution Details:

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Contribution Amount : $51.26

RJ Harris for U.S. Congress

Freedom is NOT free!

ooops...this was a reply to a below post...

Answer too below post about money being pissed away..
I never saw a penny of it spent in such a manner that would make me think..."Good Job". And a majority of the money went to set up the C4L. The ads that were created sucked. The campaign was lame. The people running the campaign were nothing but a drag on the good Doctor. I was heavily involved.....and I would have liked to seen the money spent on operations like...The Blimp...which was great, and the Granny Warriors, and the youtube gurus who created all of the cool ads.....never saw the light of day. In my opinion....all of the money dumped to the Ron Paul campaign was pissed away.
They enjoyed my $2300, and my girlfriends $2300.

Thanks RJ.. here's to YOU

Thank You for Your Contribution

Dear P Nicholson

Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you for your contribution! Please consider purchasing some RJ Harris merchandise too. http://www.cafepress.com/rjharris

It would mean a great deal if you could send a few emails, so we can spread the word about our online fundraising campaign.

'Peace is a powerful message.' Ron Paul

egapele's picture

There have been Bombs thrown

in the form of money, to help support Dr. Paul in his run in 2008. It was a collaborative effort, not a collective effort. The war wasn't won, but we now know the message has been made clear.

Then, with the bailout, there were bombs thrown in the form of phone calls and faxes to the representatives in Congress and the Senate. Again, the war wasn't won but we now know the message has been made clear.

Keep at it, Patriots!

Amen... Decentralization is

Amen... Decentralization is the best way to ensure integrity.

C4L leviathan in the making ....

C4L was being built as a leviathan to replace the establishment? And now we must destroy it?




Why is all this being overdramatized and turned into a spectacle?


STEP 1: For those who don't like what C4L did write them a letter/email and tell them specifically what you didn't like and promise to not send $ if it happens again.

STEP 2: Watch for them to do something similarly as heinous. If they repeat then stop sending them money.

STEP 3: Refrain from all this personal attacking and drama. I'm sure there will be much bigger crises up ahead. Let's build a coalition, not tear it down. Let's do like Ron Paul and try not to mention a person when discussing issues. Just mention the issue on its own merits. Tends to take away alot of the emotion and drama and portrays a stronger more organized image to the outside world.

If you introduce some stranger hamsters into a cage full of hamsters that know each other, it is common for all the hamsters to start shrieking and squealing like banshees and biting off any leg, tail or face they can find, even if they know the other hamster, until all that is left is bloody pile of legs, tails and newly-stumpy injured rodents. That's what you guys are reminding me of right now. :p


If you are unhappy with C4L then shoot them a note as to specifically what you don't like and if they do something as bad again soon then stop sending money. Or just stop sending money. Your choice. Then let's all move on to something else, and support for new groups if necessary.

Thank you and have a nice day.


~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Well said, I am tired of

Well said, I am tired of hearing everyone cry like children...... The fall of the C4L would make our movement look pathetic to an outsider, and could ruin all of the progress that has been made.