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Statement from Ronnie Paul about Campaign for Liberty Advertisement + Reaction

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=32090

Dear C4L Member,

Last week, Campaign for Liberty bought airtime in Colorado as part of our candidate survey program. Our purpose was to get candidates for office on the record about their position on issues like undeclared war, abolishing the IRS, supporting competing currencies and rescinding the Patriot Act.

Our intentions were good, but we made mistakes. We had poor communication with you about the program and the messaging of the commercial did not fit with C4L's principles. Many of you have spoken out and offered constructive criticism. We have learned some important lessons, and will be stronger as a result. We will implement checks and balances to prevent anything like this from happening again.

A small but vocal minority has decided to wage cruel and vicious personal attacks against our president, John Tate. This is unfortunate. John is a kind and decent family man who has worked unbelievably hard and has always tried to do the right thing. There should be no place for this in our movement and simply wastes the time and energy we should be using to fight for Liberty.

Looking at the big picture, C4L has achieved tremendous success over the past year. We have been instrumental in passing Audit the Fed in the House. We have trained thousands of activists so they have the tools to win. We have set up independent state chapters across the country. And, our numbers have grown to over a quarter million strong, forming a grassroots army to take our freedoms back. Our successes greatly outweigh our mistakes, and we WILL stay the course.

C4L is playing a leading role in the Liberty Movement. I am convinced that our efforts, along with those of many others, will continue the Ron Paul Revolution. C4L's successes are many, and as we progress into our second year, I see many more ahead. We deeply appreciate your support.

In Liberty,

Ronnie Paul

Chairman of the Board

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If a lot of people care

If a lot of people care enough about what happened to rescind their support of the C4L and feel betrayed by John Tate then it is obviously an important issue. 'Nuff said.

"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."

Mountain

Molehill

-MedinaForTexas-

I love Dr. Paul...

But this was not handled correctly. C4L messed up, they admit as much. The kept their own support base in the dark about what was going on. These mistakes happen and are forgivable.

What i find to be unacceptable is this whole top down approach, which C4L has not addressed.

The whole survey idea should be discussed. Listen to Benton's interview. What is our recourse when a candidate answers one way and votes another? We can "hold then accountable". How? If we cannot get our elected representatives to uphold their sworn oath to the Constitution, ho will a C4L survey help.

Here is how the Colorado thing went down from Benton description.

1.Colorado Group with no past affiliation to C4L sees survey.
2.Group brings it to the candidate they are supporting.
3.Candidate fills out survey to the liking of C4L (read the survey that is there, it is structured in a way that clearly defines what answers C4L are looking for)
4.Group raises large amount of money for their candidate
5.Group contacts C4L, and makes a deal (group gives money for the purpose of Marketing their candidate as C4L survey taker?)
6. C4L creates ads about candidate, focuses on the candidate more then survey admits that was a mistake pulls ad.
7. Questions are raised about the candidates true policies
8. C4L waits 3 days to comment on what is clearly a mistake
9. Benton is interviewed, Claims candidate has done a "complete 180 on the issue of the Federal Reserve". Sites other examples of how candidate changed his policies.

These are the facts as presented to us. Does Dr. Paul's comments about some folks response change these facts?

Question:
My group has raised 350K for a candidate and is willing to say whatever you want to hear on a survey, where do i deposit the cash for the Use of the C4L brand so i can dupe those involved in the Liberty Movement? No really, our candidate is better then the other guy. Don't we need to sacrifice principles a bit to get a candidate who can win? what about if we gave 500K?

C4L has not addressed some of the most obvious parts of this mistake. Relying on a 20 question survey to examine potential candidates is one of them. Who created this ad? Did the Colorado group have any role in that process.

While I am not as astute as Dr. Paul in the world of politics (not many are), I am no rookie either.

Don't give us patronizing BS. "what do you know about the Colorado race?" answer I know C4L ran an ad that showed support for a candidate that is nothing more then the lesser of two evils.

This guy bought our brand and that should not be possible. Fix that from ever happening again and replace those responsible. Then we move on.

Jeff Avitabile
Ron Paul Activist
Small Business Owner
Lover of Liberty
RP2012

i agree jeff.

i love ron too but was not handled well, at all.

Ron Paul is My President

He may be the lesser of two evils

But Ken Buck's opponent, Jane Norton, is REALLY evil.

Hm.

The C4L website currently has an article, written by C4L Interim State Coordinator Adam de Angeli and published 2/1/10, entitled "The Lesser of Two Evils is Really the Greater Evil" -- quick quote:

When people make the argument [to choose the lesser of two evils], never hold them at fault for it. It's a perfectly understandable belief, just one that must be corrected. And it is one that all groups geared toward liberty should avoid making.

Bet it's interesting around the water cooler at C4L HQ today.

That article

refers to general presidential races. Ken Buck and Jane Norton are both republicans running against each other in a primary election. I see nothing wrong with supporting the best possible candidate in a primary election to go on and represent the party in a general election. Once the winner goes on into the election which will determine whether or not he or she actually gets to go to Washington, it's a whole different ballgame.

Careful fanofwalt

that is bordering on worse than negative.

Did the people that won our freedom and independence from the despotic crown that was skimming from the fruits of their labor go negative to accomplish that task or was please and thank you the key to success?

Oh, um, never mind that question.

Only one more and I have met my daily quota.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

?

Negative...how?

One area of their site urges us that there is good reason to accept the lesser of two evils, while another page on the very same site, urges the exact opposite. And it's "worse than negative" to notice that dichotomy?

Oh, wait. I see what you did there.

Ruth

For me, this is barely about Buck. The simplest way I can state my overall view on this matter; our organizations being reflective of the movement as a whole. The prime aspect of that, again only speaking for myself, is transparency. I do not believe we see ourselves as politics as usual. I believe horse trading politics is the problem. I would like a swift correction as much as anyone but I do not think we will ever get there by trying to get there fast. I would take one more in office that not only shares our view of good GOV AND will work to restore that view 100% for as long as they are in office than 435 that say the right thing and do something else. The reason I was drawn to RP in the first place was he, without fail, walked the correct talk.

People have varying views on how to get back to the promised land, the above is part of what shapes my view on how to get there.

Good Luck in CO-Thank You for your efforts.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

I appreciate that

and I had no qualms whatsoever with the people who questioned the C4L's actions from the transparency of the C4L standpoint. It just got on my nerves that people unfamiliar with Ken Buck and the political climate here in Colorado considered him to be a "blood thristy, neocon warmonger," unworthy of appearing in an ad with the C4L logo and that C4L "sullied its brand" by allowing it.

And thanks for the good wishes! I don't think Ken Buck has a very good chance of winning the republican nomination for the US Senate seat, but if he does, it will be a victory for the grassroots here who are fighting against the top-down, "shut up and vote as you're told" structure of the republican party.

You said a moutful there:

"but if he does, it will be a victory for the grassroots here who are fighting against the top-down, "shut up and vote as you're told" structure of the republican party."

I think both parties(and unfortunately the majority of everything that has money at stake) operate top down. I see the US Constitution as the ultimate attempt to protect the people from the inevitable abuses inherent in top down world. That document both makes bottom up the law of the land and clearly hints to the people how to keep it that way.

If we ever butt heads please remember that I value a persons True allegiance to our cause above all else. As long as we keep gaining true believers we will eventually prevail, no matter which route we take.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

"C4L's catching on, I'm telling ya!"

They've always done great things with money....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30yxHqSUva8

"No place" for questioning in C4L?

RE: "cruel and vicious personal attacks" and "There should be no place for this in our movement and simply wastes the time and energy we should be using to fight for Liberty."

cruel: I agree; cruelty is unprofessional and unwarranted.

vicious: Well...define "vicious." Here are literal definitions; however, when one's actions (or lack thereof) are questioned, and one's reputation is held in the balance, I suppose one might indeed view such inquiries as vicious personal attacks, even where such view is unwarranted. Frankly, I should think that C4L would be proud beyond belief to discover beyond the shadow of a doubt that their membership consists of the sort of people who are alert, ever watchful, inquiring, and quick to ensure that all of C4L's actions are on the table and above reproach. THAT, more than anything else, bespeaks of the commitment the C4L membership has to assuring the integrity of the liberty movement.

The idea that there's "no place" in the C4L for questioning authority; that such inquiries merely waste time and energy; with all due respect I have to ask Mr. Ronnie Paul: Seriously??

I'm pretty sure questioning political motive is an intrinsic requirement for C4L membership, even if it's not explicitly written on the application form.

It pleases me to see the C4L recognize that the messaging of the commercial did not fit with C4L's principles. Recognition is Part I; Action is Part II. A claim to "do better next time" is heartening, but lacks a critical element: rectifying the error. Therefore, on to my proposition for Part II: Action --

C4L cannot gracefully allow this episode to pass without an announcement and/or ad on the same scale as the ad for Mr. Buck, clarifying C4L's actual stance. Such ad needs to openly state that the "Questionnaire/Buck" ad was NOT intended as an endorsement by the C4L, and that the ad was paid for by a small number of people who happen to be a sub-set of the Colorado C4L membership.

To let the ad featuring Mr. Buck ride as is without clarifying that it is NOT intended as an endorsement is to open up the C4L to possible legal trouble with election authorities.

To say to the general membership, in essence, "My bad," and do nothing further to correct the present issue, is to open up the C4L to courting umbrage of its large, fervent, and most necessary source of support.

If the C4L is to be taken seriously by those outside the organization, it needs to consider its financial assignations and any media creation before the fact, like the Big Dogs do, not after the fact, when all that can be done is damage control, both inside and outside the organization.

When the C4L speaks to inappropriate behavior within its organization, I sincerely hope that such consideration includes the cruel and vicious attacks inflicted upon C4L members devoted to the r3volution who have worked unbelievably hard, investing untold amounts of time and energy and personal out-of-pocket financial donations toward the movement; often offering such resources when they themselves had to forgo a want or a literal need, in order to support the cause they hold so dear. To give those members anything less than a complete explanation of the present issue, and true and complete transparency in all accountings, motives, and C4L communications, is the most cruel and vicious act of all.

Submitted not with vengeance or malice, but with a heart burning for the infusion of truth and liberty in this and all our endeavors.

Thank you fanofwalt!

The issue is accountability. I still don't see the results of the survey, but others have...

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Hi, Libera_me

Long time no see. :)

I've seen Mr. Buck's responses -- he answered "yes" to all questions except to the issue of banning the IRS. He gave no response to that question; the reasons behind why he skipped that question is addressed in Jessie Benton's interview (link via BeaReady: http://libertypulse.com/blog/2010/02/02/jesse-benton-address...)

Thank you.

Jesse did well in explaining this, makes me feel much better.
I was on vacation for a few weeks with no access to DP,so I am still catching up on all the news.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

BMWJIM's picture

Fanofwalt, Pick your battles and this

ain't it. I am going to need you down the road. Do what you can do but to disparage the only force we have at this time is not a good direction. Don't give money, whatever but, Don't give the MSM, elitist a news quote. They don't deserve it and it will take you away from us when we need you most. Just a thought!

Jim

1976-1982 USMC, Having my hands in the soil keeps me from soiling my hands on useless politicians.

Sunshine

Jim, I earnestly appreciate your advice; however, I don't mind the truth being quoted. I cannot and shall not disparage that which does not warrant it. Nor shall I allow an organization representing me participate in any activity which even has the appearance of misconduct. I'm a genial person who happily promotes the righteous and swiftly stands against anyone -- that includes an organization -- who deters the progress of our cause.

Steel sharpens steel, and already the C4L has benefited from the collective wisdom of its membership on this issue, even if some of that wisdom was communicated in a, er, less than courteous tone by some.

You're right about picking battles. This particular battle brought me back to DP after a long absence, as the C4L and the movement it represents is near and dear to my heart. As you'll see in my response to BeaReady, below, I heard Jessie Benton's interview, and was quite pleased with what he had to say. (Particularly his statement at the end of the interview!!)

You and I haven't met yet, but I assure you, I've been on the road for quite some time, even apart from the DP. I look forward to working with you in the r3volution. :)

P.S. to gmason08: Thank you for your kind words.

Proper Thanks go to you, fanofwalt

Are you available in the future to translate my views into English?

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

BMWJIM

We have not ever spoken directly, that I recall, and I admit my skill at communicating my views is lacking and thus frequently misinterpreted(and my style at times is, putting it mildly; off-putting). Fanofwalt did an admirably eloquent job of stating essentially my position on this matter at this point in time.

You may wonder about my loyalty and commitment to our cause, I assure you my loyalty and commitment is as true as yours but stating that fact is nothing, only time will prove that it is indeed true.

It may not seem that I am mindful of appearances to the wider world, to the unfriendly MSM looking for dirt on us, I am. One of the prime reasons that I wish for this matter to be handled, swiftly, fully and to a degree that no new revelation may ever come to light, to foe or friend is due to concern in that area. I hope you understand, that while my point of view, and recommended course to take differs with yours, it is completely with the same level of best that I can muster intention for the success of our movement as I know your views are based as well.

"You are a den of vipers and thieves."

I mean to rout you out!

-Just because you are among us, does not make you with us

-The door is wide open, anything can slither in

Maybe this has been posted,

Maybe this has been posted, several threads it's hard to keep up.

Audio interview with Jesse Benton discussing this topic. Listening now so not sure if anything new or not.

http://libertypulse.com/blog/2010/02/02/jesse-benton-address...

Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.

"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor

Thank you, BeaReady!

Thank you for the Jessie Benton link!

I just finished listening to it, and was delighted to hear what Mr. Benton had to say and delighted to hear that the Buck ad has been pulled. Such a shame that the things Jessie spoke of in that interview were not communicated to the C4L membership prior to the creation and issuance of that ad; open communication before the event would have gone a long way to promote understanding, and, perhaps, might have led to a more suitable re-design of the ad prior to airing.

Elsewhere, I'd already mentioned that I consider the questionnaire program itself to be a good idea. Rather than drop entirely the whole ad campaign concept, I know I'd like to see C4L run ads alerting people to the questionnaire itself, and that it's being sent out to candidates running in their local/state areas, and direct people to check up on their candidates for themselves. Such an ad would foment the image of C4L as a "vetting" source, without the risk being misconstrued as an "endorsing" source.

While this does not meet everything in my wish list to rectify this situation, I do feel much better about the issue, and am glad I retained my membership. Still, I think my gaze upon the C4L will be made with narrower eyes for the immediate future.

Should this have a separate

Should this have a separate thread?

Trust in God, but tie your camel tight.

"Socialism needs two legs on which to stand; a right and a left. While appearing to be in complete opposition to one another,they both march in the same direction." - Paul Proctor

I think daily paul commenters

I think daily paul commenters are a bunch of grandstanders. This was money raised by C4Lers in Colorado. It was not given by the central organization. All you guys do is complain. Go do something!

Someone said it was a lame apology...

...I agree. And I dounbt Ronnie wrote it. It sounds like some more legal BS by John Tate...

Republican - Democrat: two wings of a vulture

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain

"Let the dead bury their dead"

Yeah you also believe Rand

Yeah you also believe Rand has no more credibility. Daily Paul is really getting on my nerves. It's nothing but a bunch of retards who are reactionaries. You guys do nothing but sit and complain. Fight the government, not ourselves.

So long as you refuse to

So long as you refuse to question everything and give blind obedience to anyone, then you are a serf/slave.

As long as you base all your

As long as you base all your facts on one daily paul article you are a serf. So I'm guessing you take Bernanke at his word now on the need for Fed Independence? GET OUTTA HERE!

You don't even know what happened in Colorado, how can you comment on it.

hmmm

well i hope personal attacks arent occurring for John Tate... i have no qualms with the way he conducts his personal affairs. However, i do have concerns with the way C4L has been conducting itself... and since John Tate is the director, yes these concerns are directed towards him.