For those of you who believe the govt's (state run media) story about what occured on 9/11
Submitted by anonymusvoice on Fri, 02/12/2010 - 13:41
in
Please tell me why you believe it. What evidence sold you on it. Not just stuff like, I can't believe they would do that or what would they have to gain by it. I'm talking real hard evidence and facts because I've looked and I can't find any. So enlighten us that have heard so much real forensic and motivational evidence to the contrary.
Check 2 of the crash sites.
You won't have to go any further in knowing "something ain't right with this picture" 1. Look at the Pentagon crash. What? No film of a commercial plane in sight of the Pentagon? I thought the Pentagon was pretty heavily guarded and monitored. Fact: it IS the most heavily monitored building in the world! We see a flash fireball and nothing more, from a real dubious camera angle. Next, look at the crash site in PA. A hole in the ground and nothing more. Just look. Show me a tail section, or suitcase, or wing tip. Just anything that resembles a commercial plane wreck. What's it going to take for people to realize that maybe, just maybe, our government is up to no good?
alan laney
I will bite
I saw two planes fly into the towers.
The first truthers said they where not planes but missiles and have been evolving their hypothesis ever since.
I remember in 93 with the first attack the media having experts on explaining how you could only collapse the towers from an attack from upper levels "like a big plane".
A very large plane flying several hundred miles per hour full of fuel carries more than sufficient energy to bring the towers at those points of impact.
The government is too big and too corrupt to carry this out efficiently, they could not even effectively doctor the official 9/11 commission report to satisfy most people.
I believe in the burden of proof is on the accuser not the defendant.
I guess I should include building 7.
If my premise is correct that that described planes carry sufficient energy to collapse the towers. The energy supplied by two collapsing towers is sufficient is to collapse near by damaged buildings. With carefully attention paid to the underground subway system.
In summary Occam's razor
There you go again, blaming the entire government...
BYERS: We know it's a war game scenario. That it has to do with airline counter-terrorism. Why is it important enough to kill for?
BYERS SNR: Because it's no longer a game.
BYERS: But if some terrorist group wants to act out this scenario, then why target you for assassination?
BYERS SNR: Depends on who your terrorists are.
BYERS: (Pause) The men who conceived of it the first place. You're saying our government is planning to commit a terrorist act against a domestic airline?
BYERS SNR: There you go again. Blaming the entire government as usual. It's a faction, a small faction ...
BYERS: For what possible gain?
BYERS SNR: The Cold War's over, John. But with no clear enemy to stockpile against, the arms market's flat. But bring down a fully loaded 727 into the middle of New York City and you'll find a dozen tinpot dictators all over the world just clamouring to take responsibility, and begging to be smart-bombed.
BYERS: I can't believe this. This is about increasing arms sales?
(BYERS SNR nods.)
lol
the DMV is faction
The FDA is a faction
Congress is faction
The CIA is a faction
The DHS is a faction
FEMA is a faction
NASA is a faction
not a single efficient faction in the entire government. You would need an a large and extremely efficient faction pull off a 9/11. If you can get an efficient faction it would be possible to get an efficient whole. It is impossible to get an efficient whole.
They are very efficient
No body else can steal your mony more effiecantly than the Government. The faction is Masonic DC. They are part of the NWO. Watch The Illuminati 1&2. Warning David Icke is a false prophet. His data is correct, but no mention of Jesus. You just need to die to go to heaven, acording to him. Also don't become antisemetic they are Gods chosen. God will deal with them, since he also blinded them to the truth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m89SB59DT34 This is part 1
Jesus is the light
It's always...
...the faction you DON'T know that wields power over you.
So it was not government
It was secret government.
Like I said the theory always evolves. It is like trying to nail down water, it impossible because it lacks proper character. It always changes form. There is always some new excuse or hypothesis.
Which is why people like me reject it.
It was Illuminati run
It was Illuminati run Freemasons in the government
Jesus is the light
I know you are intelligent
Take the red pill, my friend. It's not impossible if you open your eyes.
There is no change in the facts, so it's not water. Steel does not melt from jet fuel. Nor does it cascade downward at free fall speed.
The only change in form is the excuses for Building 7's collapse. Which is why people don't believe the official story.
You want honesty more than argument, I sense it.
I do want honesty more than argument
And I agree with sentiment of many of the 9/11 Truthers (I hate that word but use at a convenience) I also think there are some legitimate questions. The more legitimate question IMO are the failures of the government given the information they had and connections to certain groups.
IMO the strongest parts of the truther argument are
1.that are still so many things unexplained.
2.There is a string of events that occur all of which involve very low probability.
That said,I am less satisfied with the official truthers explanations of the events of 9/11 than I am of that of the official government explanation.
I do not think submitting a less likely hypothesis to refute an incomplete explanation is credible.
As I said above when there are several unknowns are involved it generally best to apply the law of parsimony
If Ron Paul or a Ron Paul
If Ron Paul or a Ron Paul like candidate is elected Presidnet, we will hold the Chairman of the Federal Reserve accountable for the saftey of Ron Paul with millions of phone calls and protests and press releases.
There is no Left or Right -- there is only freedom or tyranny. Everything else is an illusion, an obfuscation to keep you confused and silent as the world burns around you." - Philip Brennan
"Invest only in things that you can stand in front of and pr
You mean like Linclon &
You mean like Linclon & Kennedy. They are masters of deception. They run the investagations. Booth was a 33rd degree Mason. Masons ran Kennedys investigation (The Warren Com). http://www.revisionisthistory.org/kingkill33.html Oops try this one. http://saveourwetlands.org/fordfreemason.html
Jesus is the light
I know why i don't believe
the story that ran in UK saying building 7 was down while it appeared in the background. Wouldn't be down for another half hour. How did they know if the demo wasn't planned?
Personally, I do not believe the Government's version......
of what happened on 9/11. The Loose Change Videos convinced me otherwise. I realize and respect Ron Paul's opinion of what appeared to unfold on that historically horrible day. Whether he truly believes what he states in reference to 9/11 is debatable, however, I tend to believe that he believes in most of the Government's version of what took place. And for political reasons, I understand his stance. I am hopeful, though, that he does not truly believe in the govs version. We most likely will never really know.
Do you trust your government
I have lived thru 47 years of ever increasing opression. My property rights have been stolen (historic distric). My property value has been greatly inflated, despite proof to the contrary. The school system failed me (drug addict by 11, due to a failure to inspire and teach). They have sent all the jobs to other nations. The CIA traffics drugs, slaves, murders, and destroys nations with propaganda. The FED causes inflation, and robs us. America exploits the world and it's own people. The examples are endless. To sum it up, how can you belive anything they say. There is abounding evedance this was a false flag operation. The only other answer would be the building owner or manager conspired with terrorists. Since the government found nothing, they are hiding somthing. Inocent people would hide nothing. Read about the fourth beast in Revelations. We cannot stop it, it is Gods will. Even if Ron Paul were elected, I fear he would be assassinated. Every President who opposed the FED has been. This tree bears no good fruit, so God will rip it out, like the weed it is. May your names be written in the book of life, the end is very near. I rejoice that the nightmare is almost over. It is key to expose all lies, so people have a chance to see the truth, and repent. So no one can say I didn't know, they just refused to look.
Jesus is the light
your faith makes you just as
your faith makes you just as much of a sheep as the TV watching nobrain average citizen.
does this not worry you?
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato
No worries here
Does it bother you Ron Paul is a man of faith. I am not a sheep. I have not funded the federal government for ten years, like the millions of fools who fund this immorality. I vote, protest, and educate. No sheeple here. I vote for people I belive in. They unfortunatly never win, because the masses cannot spot a lier. To stop it would take national deprograming. Good luck with that.
Jesus is the light
For those who believe it is not "productive" to raise 911
3000 people were murdered in cold blood. Millions more died as a result of the wars it has enabled. The world now hates us, and many feel we deserve anything we get from now on.
More, there is evidence they were turning people back into the buildings to get a higher body count, to incense the public into war.
Now Sibel Edmonds, ungagged, blows the lid off these treasonous swine passing nuclear secrets to Pakistan, through Turkey, one step away from Al Qaeda. The media is terrified, but the Dallas Morning News has stepped forward, adapted from the American Conservative piece. Don't mess with Texas.
Edmonds documentary "Kill the Messenger".
Sweep them away, all of them, through a Green Party - Ron Paul Republican alliance to cross-raid Dem-Repub primaries to put Four Principles candidates over the top.
Let the media try to corner our candidates on 911 truth. We're ready with "best answers" (best from DPer Ralph Waldo, paraphrase: If many 911 families want a new investigation, and they do, then I think we owe it to them.)
With the new Congress start criminal investigations. People will be riveted to the news every night. Cheney may order another false flag in a last ditch attempt to keep it all from unraveling, as people become enraged, as the disinformation operation collapses under the weight of the increasing transparency of its canned and debunked "debunks."
And then we will breath the air of liberty, and know our children shall too, at least for another hundred years. Enough for one day. Obama will be forced, by the wave of the recovering Republic, to withdraw his novel assertion of authority to assassinate American citizens by executive order. Our rights will once again be guaranteed.
It not just a saying. It's really true, the truth, and only the truth, shall set us free. When we become afraid of the truth, when we cease to shout it from every mountaintop over and over, when they have silenced us, then and only then is the republic dead.
As for 911, they can't get away with this. It's that simple. They shall not.
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from:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/911security.html?q...
Both WTC 6 and WTC 7 were evacuated within minutes of Flight 11 striking WTC 1, but this did not happen in the twin towers. There were no evacuation announcements in WTC 1 following the plane strike, and workers were encouraged to stay in their building.
Dan Baumbach - WTC 1 Survivor:
Dan Baumbach, 24, a software engineer from Merrick, was stunned to find that building officials in One World Trade Center were telling workers not to evacuate even after the first jet struck. "You can try it, but it's at your own risk," he quoted one official as telling a group of 100 people on the 75th floor. Many chose to follow that advice; Baumbach continued his descent from the 80th floor and survived, but only after braving the debris that fell when the neighboring tower collapsed. "The reason we got out was because we didn't listen," he said. [Newsday]
"In the neighboring south tower people were also evacuating, but an announcement over the PA system tells them their building is secure and they can return to their desks..."
"Today it is still a mystery why no-one in the towers reached the roof..."
The solution to the mystery is simple - the roof doors were locked, as were many stairwell doors.
--------
If a jumbo jet hit your skyscraper, wouldn't that be an extraordinary event warranting evacuation and sending people home no matter what the initial estimates of the damage? There are 300 dead people from that airliner somewhere, body parts in the building and on the street. Isn't that a day? The conclusion is inescapable: they wanted to increase the body count, to incense the American public into the now $5 trillion war on terror.
A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali
"productive" on what?
get anymore vague please. like ron paul's individualism philosophy derived from the constitution, i have no concern with what you do with your own time. i do have problems with truthers riding the convenient vehicle of liberty and the cost of elections to promote their personal agenda. again in case you were "deaf" or intent on misunderstanding what i said like so many other truthers have, "i care not what you do on your own time, as long as truthers don't pretend to support the liberty movement while undermining the message/election results". that's sort of like dishonest business conduct, take the monetary support and turn around to sell products not intended for its original use. you know market honesty right? if you don't and think you are justified to sabotage the true purpose of the movement, which the very site you are currently on is also a part of (note it's dailypaul not daily911), you're engaging in intellectual bait and switch and should be put in the same category as dishonest persons in a free market, like a snake oil salesmen, and perhaps you don't belong in the liberty movement in the first place. and i reiterate: i have no issue with you starting a 911 movement while disassociated with 30-year-effort movements like dr.paul's, none whatsoever. i have seen a lot of 911 testimonies, i make no comment as i believe pursuing real/political/peaceful change and 911 conspiracy at the same time are impossible and counterproductive. actually truther and politics are oxymoron. i have made a conscious decision to focus on political changes until the government becomes more transparent and responsive to the people, then an objective investigation on 911, and then see where it leads to. i would encourage anyone who is determined to undermine this liberty movement to please drop out and engage in their own truther activity, for the good of the nation. don't even think spewing conspiracy and not caring about election results (mind you, we're still a representative republic) is harder than what people like ron paul are doing. no, it is not, and it is despicable that your actions are undermining the efforts of seriously minded liberty candidates. here's an idea, get a truther candidate to run, so you don't even have to bother arguing with me and others who despise our efforts being sabotaged. to me and i'm sure many others from what i have seen from reactions to how our candidates again and again have been hit with it, it is PERFECTLY OK NOT TO RAISE 911. i'm sure you don't enjoy this kind of debate either since 911 conspiracy seems so important to you. get out and do it on your own. get aj to run. go, be gone.
Here is a proposition to all of you
If you were an Average American and you witnessed two people doing the following, which one would you follow:
1.) A Man claiming real facts about the governments involvement in 9/11 and parading people around him who agree, a possible revolt is on the horizon as this man is heard by more and more people around the country
2.) A Man who has sustained his family on his farm so he does not partake in the Federal Reserve System, a man who educates people on sustaining local communities through native resources and advocates a complete free market.
More importantly, if you were in the shoes of central planners, which one of these men would be easier to control?
The role of a farmer, in Fukuoka's mind, is an observer, not an intervener, of the natural order in his/her particular landscape. How is that any different than Hayek in regards to Economics?
>More importantly, if you
>More importantly, if you were in the shoes of central planners, which one of these men would be easier to control?<
Definitively #2.
Peasants were relatively easy to control in medieval times and in our times it is even easier to control them unless of course all of them would accept Amish style living.
How long it would take to convince 80 percent of population that real freedom is permaculture and self sustainability? I mean without the methods Pol Pot used?
The biggest threat to central planners are those who expose the truth.
The FED or CIA or Rothchilds are not afraid of permaculture geeks. They are much more afraid of those that expose their scams.
Tell me one thing why the FED guard so much his right to scecrecy and why RP want to audit them... should not RP put much more effort into permaculture instead?
I Like Much Of What You Propose In This Productive Discussion ..
... but perhaps consider not the destination, but the journey.
Revolutions Per Minute ...
... may sustainably lead (not follow) ...
individual quests
... as shifts are made...
... from
wheel spinning ...
to
forward movement.
______
ULYSSES -- Alfred Lord Tennyson :
***
To follow knowledge like a sinking star,
Beyond the utmost bound of human thought.
***
My mariners,
Souls that have toil'd, and wrought, and thought with me,--
That ever with a frolic welcome took
The thunder and the sunshine, ...
Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
***
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/125065
Man 2 isn't a realistic
Man 2 isn't a realistic example. It isn't possible to 'not participate in the Federal Reserve system'. You have no choice unless you leave the U.S. and never affiliate yourself with it monetarily ever ever.
"The casualty of partisanship is objectivity."
You are right...
but you can greatly reduce your participationg by eliminating costs associated with your welfare and minimizing your dollar income. If it wasn't for property tax you would not have to worry... however man 2 is possible and can make a much bigger difference than man 1, man 1 is easily controllable
The role of a farmer, in Fukuoka's mind, is an observer, not an intervener, of the natural order in his/her particular landscape. How is that any different than Hayek in regards to Economics?
While we wait
Evidence and witnesses are lost forever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU
The post
By anonymusvoice was succinct.
The question was 'Why do you believe the governments story about 9-11?'
If there is a reply responding to this question, I missed it.
Smells Like Fear In Here
Wow
Thank You, I can't believe this post is still running and I only bumped it like once
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE
Still waiting
for the argument that will hold water.
The 9/11 issue is not worth discussing and it is not productive
It will only result in negative ramifications for our movement... which will not end peacefully if this issue is pursued.
The role of a farmer, in Fukuoka's mind, is an observer, not an intervener, of the natural order in his/her particular landscape. How is that any different than Hayek in regards to Economics?
Until The Next Deadly Lie
When the next deadly lie occurs will you avoid that one too? How many will it take for you to realize that if you keep sidestepping the truth, the greater the lies will be? If they get away with one, the next will only be more devious because we did not expose them!
FED = FRAUD
IRS = FRAUD
INCOME TAX = FRAUD
FDA = FRAUD
CDC = FRAUD
CIA = FRAUD
FEMA = FRAUD
HOMELAND SECURITY = FRAUD
WHO = FRAUD
UN = FRAUD
VACCINES = FRAUD
SOCIAL SECURITY = FRAUD
911 = Oh wait, they're actually telling the truth here, but they had the patriot acts sitting on the presidents desk waiting for an incident to sign them. Afghanistan had no central bank run by the globalists before we attacked them and now they do but that's a good thing because the FED is so honest everyone should have one. We should not drill for oil on our own land because it's too beautiful but we should kill 1,000,000 people in Iraq and take theirs.
It does matter. wake up.