Taking the Glitter Out of Gold-Based Currency

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The current system will die and a new one will take place. If we let things happen unhindered, people will say Capitalism has ended, but those in the know will see nothing has changed.

New Supranational units will emerge, in Northern- and Latin America, Asia. Eventually we will have world currency, as was prophesied many years back. The new units will be based on gold and other scarce, tightly controlled commodities.

The rise of the Gold (and maybe oil) Standard will lead to a global, excruciating deflation, with heartbreaking poverty all over the world as a result. It will be an enormous wealth transfer from the have nots to the haves. Having gold, that is.

Of course, it will be sold as the price to pay for paper inflation. But you and I know who will be paying……………

While most in the broader Truth community will agree that the current system of interest bearing fractional reserve banking is a central hoax in this reality of hoaxes, transcended only by the question whether we are ’sh****** with a brain’, or energetic light beings of pure consciousness, there are basically two strains of thought about solutions.

There is the Gold Crowd and there are the interest free money people. These two crowds up till now have been living in peaceful coexistence. This peace has been inspired by the common enemy of today. But since the slimy monster is nearing the end of its current phase of development and preparing to morph into its next stage, we are nearing the question whether we will be cheerleading it to its rebirth, or take the chance that this transformation brings to slay this beast at last.

Although debunking Gold completely would take to long, there are three items I would like to offer. I believe some contemplation of these are quite sufficient for all who want to be armed suitably for the monetary struggles ahead.

In the first place, it doesn’t matter at all what means of exchange you use. Paper, bits and bytes, shells, tally sticks, salt. They have all been used successfully in the past. I could even create a working gold based unit for you, however superfluous, if you insisted, that’s not the problem.

The question is, who is in control of its supply? And what is he doing with it?

Let’s just one more time repeat a worn out quote: “Give me control of a nation’s money supply, and I care not who makes the laws.”

We all know who said this and we all know he knew his trade. This was said when Britain was on the Gold Standard.

Even more important when controlling money is Interest.

Now, this really exasperates me.

The Gold people say that interest is a normal free market pricing mechanism for money. It allows for ‘optimal allocation of capital’.

Yeah, right in to the bankers pockets………….

Don’t the Gold people care about the enormous price that Labor pays for this?

Isn’t it totally atrocious to allow a few capitalists to control such an important factor of production and reap such massive profits from it just for their own sake?

Let’s get over this.

So it is not about what means of exchange you use, it is about whether we, as a people, are in control of it, so that its supply is steady and dirt cheap.

The second item of interest with the Gold narrative is, that it was financed by Rockefeller. He imported Ludwig von Mises to the US in 1940 and gave him a grant……………

Third, interest free money is not an idea, it is an established fact. It is all around us in the various barter schemes around the world.

The import of the matter is such, that the Truth community both has a major opportunity and responsibility to facilitate the necessary education and debate.

Because the production of the means of exchange is simply a trade and science like all the rest and is in urgent need of demystification.

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Spend money and stock goods.

Spend money!
Give it to the poor in exchange for goods and services.
Poor people have no option but to spend money, which eventually returns to those who spend in exchange for their labor.
Rich people bury their talents, hang gold around their necks or instead of spending money they lend it to enslave others.
Refute Gresham's law
Spend gold, silver, platinum and palladium and drive out FRNs.
grant

Mending Gresham's Law

What Gresham called 'good money' is actually bad MONEY, but a good store of wealth.

However: money is a means of exchange, not a store of wealth.

So a mended version of Gresham's law should go: good money drives out bad money.

http://realcurrencies.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/mending-gresh...

realcurrencies.wordpress.com

Rubbish

The purpose of gold is to put sovereignty into an individuals own hands. The bankers are superfluous.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

Simply bull...

what a waste of time reading. Go fish.

Has anyone read this whole thread?

Everyday I am impressed with the intelligence of the crew here at the DP,This thread is just one example,Please take a few minutes to absorb a little genius from this thread.

Trying to get an interesting website rolling along, Offering free banners to DP business owners. Please contact me through the DP for details with size Etc. If you don't have one I can adjust, I will make you one.
http://www.shtfknowledge.com/index.php

It is a great thread!

I don't know if Larry really doesn't get it, if he's trolling or if he's getting paid to be here, but regardless of all that, he has made some of the best threads on the DP.

I tend to agree, his logic is

I tend to agree, his logic is completely flawed, but the one thing he does offer is plenty of room for great rebuttal of his Statist opinion.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes

I'm having difficulty

I'm having difficulty tracking with you on this one. What kind of monetary system are you proposing exactly? If you mean to say that gold should not be declared legal tender than I whole heartedly agree. NO LEGAL TENDER LAWS! People should be free to use whatever medium of exchange they wish. BTW i'll have you know that gold, silver, platinum, copper, steel, oil, salt, wheat, corn, acres of land etc etc would all make excellent mediums of exchange. (you'd need to use backed paper for the consumables,and fixed land) But gold is good sound money because it can't be inflated and for the most part it's not useful to humans in any practical way that other substances can't do for much cheaper. It's like a fiat currency that's inflation proof! Now that's what I call the perfect money.

What we need

is a free-market in money.

It might be easier

to take the light from the sun.

DrK, Please go preach To The Obama Worshippers.

You have said this same thing over and over;
snip" One major problem with gold backed money is that we don't have any gold."

And as many posters have tried to point out to you it's simply Not True !

Let me change the above phrase to read:
"One major problem with gold backed money is that ""I""{ DrK } don't have any gold."

That would be a little more honest.

Yes, there is not enough Gold to cover all the dollar I.O.U. Notes in existence, but if you think about why so many people all over the world are living in poverty, it's because I.O.U. notes just don't have the value that intrinsic objects have, and thousands of years have proven that Gold/Silver in all it's many physical forms holds "Value"!

Here is a link to what I consider a very educational article:

http://www.kitco.com/ind/fekete/feb052008.html

beesting

GOLD and SILVER have been

GOLD and SILVER have been money since the recorded history of man began. For over 5000 years an ounce of gold will buy a product or a service. same with an ounce of silver. kirby is wrong. Which is ok, I will buy all the gold and silver ol kirby doesn't want. When the dollar dies and ol kirb's paper dollars are useless it will be hard not to laugh.

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

I don't want government to back anything with gold!

You want GOVERNMENT to determine what acts as money via COERCION, TAXATION, "OPEN MARKET OPERATION" and LEGAL TENDER LAW.

I want the MARKET to decide what acts as money. It DOESN'T have to be gold. I predict that it MIGHT be precious metal, but that's just a hunch based on the last 5000 years of recorded history.

The key point is that government passed the Federal Reserve Act and deliberately handed monopoly power to the banking cartel in your country.

It wasn't an accident. It was - to use the popular phrase - an inside job!

conundrum

As long as private banks issue our money they will control it.

END the FED before it ENDS US

Please, by all means, show us

Please, by all means, show us where money is issued by a private bank in this country! You have numerous misconceptions about the role of the Federal Reserve and the manner in which it functions as it performs the tasks laid out to it by this government. Show me one instance where the Federal Reserve issues money. I realize that the FED both sells and purchases Treasuries and other assets on the open market, it manipulates interest rates and economic movements, but as far as issuing our money I know of absolutely no instance where it does so. Thus, the level of misconception on the issue is exposed for exactly what it is!

The fact is that the Federal Reserve is nothing more than a continuation of the Progressive Socialistic legislation that began, in earnest, during that latter part of the 1800s. It was little more than a method to expand the role of government into every area of life in this country and, of course, the first place that needed to be transformed to accomplish that feat was the money. In order for the government to reach far beyond the limitations of the Constitution it needed to gain complete control over all monetary and thus economic power, once that was accomplished the rest would fall into place.

During the latter part of the 1800s, the banks found it difficult to actually form successful cartels within the free market, thus they needed the partnership of government to allow that to happen. Yet, it turned out that it was much more than simply a matter of Quid Pro Quo, for the government would be holding the power and the ability to reap far more benefit from the arrangement than the banks, yet make no mistake, the banks did benefit from the virtual grant of monopoly power over the ancillary functions of the monetary markets. It became very clear to those within the banking houses that, without government, it would be impossible to gain control over the economic and financial sectors of the country. Likewise, the governement also was quick to recognize that without the banking industry the over-reach for power would be impossible. It would be necessary for the government to completely transform the economy from a free market to a highly centralized economy that would be coordinated with a distinct form of Statism, the only means of accomplishing this feat was through the eventual destruction of the gold monetary system. It was the only method to gain the necessary controls over the economy and thus the people, for once money property is removed from the hands of the people, all other rights become flexible in the hands of government. The government desperately desired a political economy, one that allowed it the ability to function without the necessity of seeking the consent of the people, the only form of money that would allow such a function is a fiat monetary system, or essentially a money substitute where all control lay in the hands of government.

The first real attempt at such Statist control came during the Lincoln Administration, under the cover of war, the Radical Republicans could set forth their agenda of a highly centralized and powerful government, breaking the Independence of the States and the will of the people in the process. The seed was planted during the Lincoln Administration, the seed of alliance between the powers of big government and the big business. Perhaps the most interventionary acts of the Lincoln Administration was that of money and banking, it paved the way for the concept of both the Federal Reserve and the fiat monetary system. The fact is that during that time there was a huge push by those within the Administration and its beneficiaries in the banking and industrial sectors, to establish complete control over the banking and financial sectors; this was not to benefit the county, on the contrary, it was to benefit the government and those policitally connected to it through patronage.

If you look deeply into all the back-door deals that were struck, not only during the Lincoln Administration, but subsequently, you would be amazed at the corruption. Indeed, if you look carefully, you will find that much of what we now endure found its seed-stock during those periods. Many of the very functions of the Federal Reserve were crafted during the period of the late 1800s, primarily by the political powers in Washington with the assistance of those seeking a banking cartel. There were many proponents of the creation of a Trust Cartelization by the government, primarily it was those within the political spheres who supported such a cartelization, which would, in essence, provide the government with the ability to completely control the economic life of this country behind the curtain of a central bank, it worked. The Federal Reserve is nothing more than that, a curtain concealing the un-Constitutional attributes of the State. Indeed, all one need to is read the debates and findings of the House Banking and Currency Committee during that period to find the real purposes behind the formation of a central bank, it had little to do with the actual banking industry and everything to do with the power of government, although granted the banking industry would benefit from the arrangement.

It is essential to understand that almost every act legislated to create a gold standard was nothing more than a way to destory the use of gold money in this country. As such, the Gold Standard Act of 1900 did just that, it placed changes in banking legislation that would allow for a drastic expansion, both of government intervention and of the manner in which banks could operate under the auspices of government oversight. Essentially, the Gold Standard Act of 1900, like several gold standards created by government before it, sought to remodel the State and National bank systems into one much more pliable to the whims of government. The Gold Standard Act opened the door for much more radical reforms in the relationship between government and banking, indeed it lead the way for the creation of the Federal Reserve. There were several legislative innovations which took place, many of which were illegal until, in 1902 the Fowler Bill allowed for expansion of National Bank Notes based on broader assets than simply government bonds. The next innovation, again once illegal, was to allow National Banks to establish branches over a much wider territory than previously allowed and even expand abroad. Perhaps the most dangerous innovation however, was the creation of a three-member board within the Treasury with the power to control and supervise the creation of all new bank notes and estabilish a group of clearing house associations for the express purpose of managing the issuance of the newly created bank notes. Now, remember all of this was under the newly legislated Gold Standard of 1900 and essentially it was a license to print fiat money under the veil of what was assumed to be a legitimate Gold monetary system. The whole purpose of the legislation was to build a foundation for the creation of a central banking system and the fiat monetary system it would be empowered to administer on behalf of the government. Fortunately, at least at that point, the bill was killed in committee, but, as well all know, that was not the end of the story.

There were, at that time, various experiments being executed which would allow the Treasury to function as a central bank, allowing the Treasury to actually make open market purchases, using Treasury deposits to expand the money supply beyond the reserve of gold. It was a violation of law, at that point, for until then there was a statutory limitation which confined government revenues and expenditures to actual Treasury accounts, but that ended and Secretary leslie Shaw actually deposited Treasury funds into the governments favored big National Banks, this, of course, artificially lowered interest rates and subsequently expanded easy credit, both of which were politically beneficial to those in government power. The problem is that of deficits, when the government, dependent upon a flow of new revenue, spent beyond those revenues the entire system would rapidly degenerate into economic choas. During this period, yet another scheme was being formulated, one that would give total control to the Secretary of the Treasury over all banks, fortunately again, it did not happen.

Of course, as we know, the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, enacted by Congress lead to the creation of the Federal Reserve Banking System, but as it was, it was limited as to the extent of its power by one main factor and that was gold money. That did not however, stop the push toward a fiat monetary system under government control, the fact that the Gold Standard was created and established in the name of gold, was merely a formality. In reality, the Gold Standard was nothing more than a system which allowed for the installation and subsequent management of a what was to become a highly coordinated system of international inflationary fiat paper money. The entire concept behind the Gold Standard, indeed behind the subsequent Bretton Woods agreement, was the eventual replacement of gold money with government controlled paper fiat money. Essentially, the Gold Standard was nothing more than a pseudo-gold standard, all used to benefit government and allow for the expansion of its power. What it created, again all under the guise of a Gold Standard, was a highly unstable system, inflationary in character and more than potentially dangerous. In fact, it was this type of activity which lead to the eventual collapse of the system during what we now know as The Great Depression. The Great Depression had absolutely nothing to do with gold, but was the result of several factors revolving around the issuance of a fiat paper expansion, while retaining the facade of a Gold Standard as a convenient cover for the disaster. That cover allowed for the government to take control, both direct and indirect, over more and more of the monetary, economic and financial sectors while it blamed gold as the culprit behind the debacle. It was a very effective ruse and as then, many people are still buying into the lie. You are a prime example.

It is quiet evident that the push for consolidation and centralization that began during the Lincoln Administration continued throughout the latter part of the 1800s, it continues to this day. The idea, now, as in Lincoln's day, was that the concentration of power would permit the ability of efficent government actions, like now, it was viewed as essential for the promotion of an American World Empire. It was absolutism at its finest, and allowed for the expansion of executive and government power far beyond Constitutional restrictions. The only method that would allow such an expanse of government power was through Monetary Imperialism and that could only be achieved through a fiat monetary system controlled by government issue and managed by a central bank. The whole purpose of the fiat monetary system is to expand the power and reach of this government, it has nothing to do with prosperity, altough it creates a sense of prosperity. It was also necessary, in order to create a Monetary Empire, for the government to tie its Client States, dependent upon the U.S. Fiat Monetary System, into a system that would allow those Client States to pyramid the monetary and credit inflation on the inflation of the United States. Part of the purpose of the fiat monetary system was to bind the countries of the world to the U.S. Fiat "dollar". That is one reason why there was such a pressure placed on Third World countries to adopt the Bretton Woods agreement which essentially created a veil of viability under a "Gold Exchange Standard" which was actually nothing more than "Dollar Standard". Most of the Imperialist intervention of the late 1800s by the U.S. was nothing more than a preparation for the eventual imposition of a Monetary Empire envisioned by certain political figures in our government. It is easy to see the consequences of this governments actions, the purposes behind those actions and why we now live in the type of world we do.

If you read about the actual reasons and the ideology behind the War of 1861, then behind the Spanish American War you will see where the seeds were planted and why those seeds were planted. Delve into the reasons behind the capture and occupation of the Phillipines, and particularly of Puerto Rico, Panama and Cuba, the vast majority of reasons had to do with the creation of the U.S. Monetary Empire. Read why in 1911 and 1912, the U.S. government imposed a Gold-Exchange Standard on Nicraqua, it certainly didn't have anything to do with gold money or the use of gold as money, but on the power to manipulate the economies of the world; this policy extended to other countries as well, such as Mexico, Liberia, Bolivia, Guatemala, Honduras and even to China. Of course, as I said, none of this had anything to do with gold money, but under the guise of a gold monetary standard, the expansion of bank credit and government control could be achieved on a global stage. [an interesting read is entitled "The Principles of Money and Banking" (1905- Charles Conant), who was the engineer behind the expansion of the Monetary Empire of the U.S. government, it is, of course, a magnum opus in government propaganda.

Some other very interesting and pertinent information can be found in the reports issued by the National Monetary Comission from the year 1908, the Commission was made up of equal numbers of Senators and Representatives, but primarily the power behind the Commission was none other than Senator Aldrich, I am sure you have heard his name mentioned before. His desire was that everything be done without bring much, if any, public attention to the meetings. Aldrich had the idea that it would be possible to divert control over the monetary system to the government by using a ruse, using regionalism and decentralization as a guise, they stated that the government would establish regional reserve centers, while they would appear to be independent, the fact of the matter was that they were to be completely dependent upon government charter and monopoly control, all centralized under what would become known as The Federal Reserve. The proposed purpose of The Federal Reserve was not only to determine and manipulate the money supply [fiat bank notes], protect bank reserves through the manipulation of the discount rate, but also to allow for government spending [debt] to function as a mechanism to siphon off "surplus capital" from the economy. To fully understand the import of the events of the period and how it now affects our lives it is absolutely necessary to read the various reports issued by the various committees and associations, as well as the numerous speeches given during the period. It is truly amazing to read those reports and to see the mechanics behind the facade that was created to impose the system on this country. In particular is the issue of the APS's "Reform the Currency" of 1911. The primary impetus was that the entire idea of a free market was obsolete, the market no longer considered to be self-regulating [especially since government involvement made it impossible for the markets to continue to self-regulate], instead, the government would be the provider of the expertise necessary to government the markets, in particular the money market.

In one conference, the plan was disclosed as follows: "The real purpose of the conference was to discuss winning the banking community over to government control..." That is exactly what happened, and if anyone doubts that this government is not in control over the Federal Reserve and the banks it oversees, then it would be wise to actually read the myriad of documents that were written during that period. It is also necessary to understand that within this plan was the express purpose of the destruction of all State banks, or at least the ability to bring all State banks under the control of the federal government.

The progression was clear, from a free market gold system to a government controlled "Gold Standard" to a government controlled "Gold Exchange Standard" to a government controlled Fiat Paper Money Substitue Standard. The only way the government could expand its power beyond the limitations set forth by the Constitution was through the eventual creation, control and manipulation of a Fiat Monetary System. It is the only way this government can spend, creating a vast network of military intervention around the world as well as a vast network of entitlements domestically. None of that would be possible under our Constitutional form of government if a direct gold monetary system was voluntarily allowed, without government control or ITS central bank. The Federal Reserve Banking System is a government created and sanctioned device that allows the monopoly power over money to be placed in the hands of government through the intermediary of the Federal Reserve, it has allowed for the creation of the fiat monetary system, the expansion of that system and the control of every aspect of life in this country through that system.

Unlike the limitations placed upon government under a free market gold monetary system, there are no such limitations under a fiat monetary system. It is an inherent characteristic for goverrnment, as the sole issuer of fiat money to issue as much money, and in the process issue deficit spending, that it can get away with without causing the destruction of the fiat currency through inflation. Under a gold monetary system, government was limited in the issue of paper money by the reserve of gold, thus such severe limits by gold on the potential for monopoly money issue [fiat or partial fiat] held government in check, restricting its ability to expand its power or to use that power without the consent of the people. Gold was a barameter as much as it was a sound system of money, it restricted government to very limited functions. If the government spend beyond revenues, it would have to tax the people, that was a politically imprudent action since there was always the next election around the corner or worse, an actual tax revolt if taxes were raised too high to support the governments spending adiction.

Indeed, if you look at the works of John Maynard Keynes, you will quickly see that the purpose behind his "theories" was the centralization of government, not only that, but it was suggested that his theories would lead to an ever-increasing degree of government intervention into the markets and eventually this would lead to a socialization of the American Economy and Society. In fact, this is exactly what has happened. The solutions proposed by government always become problems which require more intervention, more solutions which become more problems requiring more government intervention. Keynes hated gold money, and he set out to destroy it...his theories were obviously successful and the results are equally obvious.

Now DrKrbyLuv, you "say" you are against the FED, yet what you propose is nothing more than another version of the FED. The FED is an adjunct of this government, the banking system is controlled by government for the benefit of government. If the government did not benefit from the FED there would be no FED.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes

Thanks for that in depth explanation, I'm going to pass it on.

So it seems Senator Nelson Aldrich from Newport, Rhode Island, was actually a traitor to the U.S. Constitution and his name should go down in the history books of infamy, the same as Benedict Arnold from Rhode Island has.

beesting

Amen! That was one heck of a

Amen!

That was one heck of a post. Thanks!

Love it.. drkirby caught in

Love it.. drkirby caught in his BS again.

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

Wow you are spitting

out the same old crap and still haven't even bothered to attempt to refute the solid beating I gave your misguided views on free markets.

Reason: You can't, because what you say is in fact contradictory to the writings of Mises and Hayek, and furthermore, ACTUAL HISTORY proves that free market banking without a monopolistic force and government deposit guarantee LIMITS BANKING like nothing else ever has or could.

Derek.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Progress is precisely that which the rules and regulations did not foresee. - Ludwig Von Mises.

Without government, they would have NO power.

They need the coercive force of legal tender law, taxation, etc. in order to run their racket.

Their ability to create mischief without government is practically nil.

+1

+1

Ventura 2012

there is nothing to get...

there is nothing to get...

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

beesting

while I completely disagree with DrK's statements (especially the one below that I just replied to), you cannot assume that gold IS money now and forever.

Gold hasn't always been treated as money even when we had a "gold standard" (which was actually a SILVER standard but the gov't screwed it up by fixing the rate of gold as well, creating an arbitrage situation which keeps one metal out of the market). Even after the abolishment of individual redeemability in 1933, the outside-of-government-fixed-price market never pushed gold up above the fixed price except for retail jewelry pieces (which most people buy not for intrinsic value).

It wasn't until the 1970's that gold took off - in any substance that government monopolized if there is a real "intrinsic value" to it that is different from the "legal" price, it will automatically reflect that in a black market capacity.

Gold is only money if the market chooses it to be - by buying gold you are essentially hedging against the loss of fiat currency's existence and hoping that gold becomes the unit of exchange and account.

However there is no guarantee that the market will choose this in the end, when the time is right - it could use something else - who knows. Gold is just a probability play backed by hardcore dogma and rhetoric (which I do ascribe to, BTW, as the majority of my savings is in a 70/30 ratio of silver:gold).

Read Hayek's writings on money itself and it may just blow your mind :)

Derek

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Progress is precisely that which the rules and regulations did not foresee. - Ludwig Von Mises.

Hi Derek, I agree with you.

Hamilton and Jefferson argued about money and banking over 200 years ago and Jefferson won the argument, in my opinion, when the Gold/Silver clause was written right into the "Supreme 'Law' of the Land", suggesting that "No State" is permitted to use anything but Gold/Silver to pay debts etc.

Now, we all know that the Constitution spells out the laws for the governments { Several states or Feds }to follow, but as far as We the "Free" People are concerned, we could use any medium of exchange we chose until the "legal Tender Laws" were put in place, here in the USA.

So, lets label Hamilton as a "Statist" thinker and Jefferson as a "Libertarian" thinker, the same label writers put on Ron Paul.

The Statists have currently taken power through the banking/government merger. But many worldwide feel that their reign on power will end { The same as the USSR's did } when their money no longer has sufficient value.

So you and I are preparing for the possible day of financial re-adjustment by accumulating Gold/Silver as insurance.

Allow me to respond to this from your post above:
snip:"It wasn't until the 1970's that gold took off"

When Nixon took the redeemable in Gold clause in 1971 away from the U.S. dollar, it was essentially a declaration of U.S. bankruptcy at the international level, because central banks around the world no longer had as much faith in the "Value" of the U.S. dollar.
For about 8 years, culminating in Jan.1980, a bidding war for Gold took place, mostly at the wholesale level.{ LBMA and COMEX }

{ Central banks started the FOREX exchanges }
This rush out of currencies and into Gold spiked the world price of Gold upward.
Reagan passed a law saying it was illegal to use South African Gold Krugerrands, that had no numerical denomination stamped on them as money, in the USA.

Central banks, including the USA's 8,130 odd tonne hoard, still hold large amounts of Gold !

WHY?

My answer is, as a backup if and when a monetary collapse arrives. Substantiating the worldwide claim that Gold, is still money !

The worlds Central Bankers are supposed to be the smartest and brightest when it comes to money,and they hold Gold ! Can the rest of the masses learn a lesson from this?

beesting

you really think the US still

you really think the US still has that gold? I would be willing to bet fort knox is empty.

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

The Fed has more gold than the US Treasury.

I think that's a pretty safe bet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bullion_Depository

"The United States Bullion Depository holds about 4,603 tons (4,176 metric tonnes) of gold bullion (147.4 million troy ounces[1]). It is second in the United States only to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York's underground vault in Manhattan, which holds about 5,000 metric tonnes of gold in trust for many foreign nations, central banks and official international organizations."

Different sources give different estimates. I wouldn't be surprised if Fort Knox was empty, but I'd be shocked if the Fed had no gold.

The Fed also owns and

The Fed also owns and controls banks, which own gold mines and mining rights. If need be gold can be mined.

you have to go by its 5000

you have to go by its 5000 year history.. besides a mans physical labor that he exchanges for good and services.. what else is there that has lasted 5000 years?

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

Clarification of "fiat" & economic "theories"

The term "Fiat" has been abused and misused to purposely confuse those trying to understand the fundamentals of "money." I'll provide some of the definitions and request that if you are going to use the term, please describe your preferred definition so that our discussion easier to follow.

"Fiat"

1) Fiat has become an ambiguous term that is defined in many ways. I think the root definition, is that it is "decreed to be." Under this definition, our (U.S.) first national "fiat" money was decreed in 1792 when gold and silver were specified as "weighted" money.

2) Fiat is also defined as money that has no redeemable value, it is just paper deemed to be money. Under this definition, we've haven't used fiat money for 150 years. In our debt based system, all money is backed by collateral and a court enforceable promissory note.

For example, if money is created by a mortgage loan, if it is not repaid the house is seized and if needed, other assets will also be seized. This is redeemable value.

The United States gave it's credit to the Federal Reserve monopoly. We back every dollar that they create for free. If you don't believe it, wait till you see what happens when we begin defaulting on our debts. Assets are going to be seized including infrastructure, natural resources and future labor.

3) Many use the term "fiat" to distinguish between money backed by gold versus paper money rolled off a printing press. Our "fiat" money doesn't really come from a printing press, it comes from debt. One major problem with gold backed money is that we don't have any gold.

The U.S. simply "stores" whatever gold, if any, is left in our vaults. It is owned by the Federal Reserve. If we switched over to gold based money, we would have no money and the economy would cease to exist.

4) The term "fiat" is often used by DP regulars to mean "bad." If you are using the term as an adjective, please clarify, or better yet, use another adjective.

Common Fallacies of Economic Theories

The science of economics has been largely replaced by belief systems. Austrian, Keynesian, Neoclassical, etc., economic theories share two omissions that render them less than useful.

A) None discuss or explore the difference between sovereign and privately issued money

All are based on the assumption that private banks should issue all new money as debt. This is a fundamental part of any economy and should be discussed. Sovereign nations have "credit" which empowers them to create money. We decided to give private banks a monopoly to use our credit in the creation of debt money. The fact is that sovereign states may issue their own money, free from debt, which acts as the engine to drive the economy.

B) All are terminally flawed, as can be proven with mathematical logic, they cannot be sustained

The exponential growth of debt has been proven both mathematically and empirically. The economic theories were established without any reference to the mathematical science of numbers.

END the FED before it ENDS US