How to beat Huckabee
Submitted by allinforpaul on Mon, 12/10/2007 - 23:01This is my first post so please forgive this newbie if this topic has already been addressed. I just have a few points and an idea to pitch.
1. Background - I'm an African-American Seminary student in Fort Worth, TX. This part of the country is affectionately known in the Christian Evangelical circles as the "buckle of the Bible belt."
2. I recently switched my vote from Huckabee to Ron Paul because of his stance on the issues and more importantly, because I read his Statement of Faith at http://www.covenantnews.com/ronpaul070721.htm
3. I'm sad to say this, but when it comes to politics and the Evangelical brain, absolutely NO message is important. The Evangelical brain wants to hear ONE thing and ONE thing ONLY! ..... Jesus Christ.
It's a very uncomfortable truth to share and admit.
4. But after reading Ron Paul's Statement of Faith, I realized that I'm 100% in agreement with what he has to say.
To keep things short - The GOOD NEWS!!
5. I've been able to slowly churn 3 deeply religious friends to Ron Paul. All Huck'babies. :-)
6. I did that by first and foremost showing them Ron's Statement of Faith. And then I followed it up with a few videos online.
7. The one issue that caused their brains to actually function was the paragraph about the Just War Doctrine.
I know Politics should not be mixed with Religion, but folks, I think looking at how things are going, the Paul campaign needs to play up his Religion card a bit more. Most Christians here in the Bible Belt don't even think Paul is a Christian.
More importantly, I have a feeling that Huckabee is just exploiting Evangelicals for yet another run like Bush.
HERE'S WHAT WE'RE DOING TO HELP THE CAMPAIGN!
1. The 4 of us new Ron Paul Converts are printing up copies of Ron's Statement of Faith and some Slim Jims. We will be passing these out to people that we know and come back with some rough-shod statistics on the conversion rate among hardcore Evangelicals.
If anyone of you seasoned folks have an idea that could help us newbies, please let us know.
Thanks.
















Great post. I'm glad to hear
Great post. I'm glad to hear that your friends were able to appreciate the superiority of Paul's position on war over Huckabee's.
And as others have mentioned, the fact that Huckabee is actively using his faith to win votes stinks to High Heaven and should turn off any devout voter. Paul doesn't do this; in fact he goes out of his way to say that he doesn't want to use his faith to pander for votes, but that if asked, he will proudly declare himself a good Christian.
That kind of integrity can be respected by the devoutly religious as well as the non-religious.
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Huckabee
gleidy
With all due respect, does anyone really take this guy seriously? Huckabee will be gone by February.
gleidy
I've heard that before.....
and they were wrong. We had better take him seriously because the sheep believe him.
Religion in politics
"This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man." Hamlet, Act I, Scene III.
Ron Paul has achieved a widespread following by being himself. Although he is a religious man, part of his nature is not to flaunt his religion. This is an asset. People who are intensely religious often do not seem to realize how offensive it is to skeptics and even Sunday-only Christians when a person wears Jesus on his sleeve.
Ron Paul would, undoubtedly, improve his chances in Iowa by running an overtly religious campaign. However, in the long run, it would kill any chance of being elected President. Those who are deeply offended by this sort of thing greatly outnumber those who are turned on by it. This, by the way, is why the religious right is stupid to support Huckabee. He leads with his religion, severely offends people outside of his intense religious views, and is completely unelectable in a general election.
Offended not by religous views but by his manner
It is not the views that are wrong but his manner of pressing them. He is immature and fanatical. He is not serious but a joker. Not fit to run a country. Yes he would never win because we are in a serious mess and the country is not going to listen to jokers. Yes he will get a good initail following but that is limited.
How to beat Huckabee?
with a stick....
I get so tired of his smug look and hypocritical behaviour.
How can Christians overlook his ignorance
I haven't set foot in a church for 40 years and even I knew that Jesus was an adult when he "as the story goes" multiplied the fishes for the crowd that was following him!
And when asked about the sharp increae in his polling numbers, he actually implied that it was God doing it! Isn't that blasphemous!
Talk about a wolf in sheep's clothing!
I have had one friend for about 5 years and we've gotten along very well until she found out about RP's stance on Israel. Now, she won't even talk to me because "We have to protect Israel." "Jews are God's people, etc."
If you have any ideas on that subject, please let me know.
Just presumptuous
It is not blasphemous as you state it (of course I never saw the statement he gave on this) but just presumptuous. There is nothing out of the ordinary about this. The Evangelicals have no one to vote for in the main candiates who will push their cause and Huckabee is someone who will. He has a few backers and that is enough for a lot of people to get behind him now. The statement could be made in a blasphemous way or it could be just along the lines that God gives the increase. If it was said in a bad way then that is one thing but if not then let us not overstate our opposition. Focus on what is important and don't waste time on unimportant things.
As for Israel, there is much divide in Christian circles on what Israel really is, and what is the role and destiny of Jews. This is not a simple thing to solve as it requires some time to read through the bible without prejudice. In Romans Paul talks about many things and it seems evident that he is dealing with the Pharisee mindset in addressing their philosophy. He shows that Jews or decendants of Abraham are sinners just as Gentiles and once they have broken the law of God they can never live up to the law. Thus they need to be saved by the Grace of God. This gift of forgiveness cannot be earned by further works of obedience because we all owe full obedience to the moral law (in seeking the welbeing of all, etc.) and therefore cannot do more than the law requires to make up for the lack at any time. So it is a gift we receive if we let go of pride and seeking to save ourselves by our good works. It is thus by faith, the faith that works by love, absolutely impartial and unselfish trust in God. This state is conformity to God's moral law and thus we fulfil the law of God at that moment. Paul argued against the idea that mere birth could save you after showing all have sinned and fallen short (by their own choice and not by some mere choice of their parents). So Jews also needed salvation. The first Christians were Jews. Many believed Jesus was the Christ but many others rejected especially the idea of a need for salvation from sin.
Paul further argues that the real Israel of God lives by faith--the just shall live by faith--and really keeps the moral law of God, not merely external regulations that can be done with a selfish unbelieving heart. Jesus also made the same distinctions and rejected the idea of salvation by birthright. The Old Testament made it clear, even in Ezekiel chapter 18 where it says that a child is not saved or lost because of his parents.
Later in Romans Paul explains that the natural people of Isreal, not talking about spiritual Israel, will become gealous one day when Gentiles believe in God in the masses, and then these people will one day believe.
Now here is what you need to know. There are many new theories in the last hundred years about how the end will come and who is involved, etc. Many Evangelicals believe Premilenial views in which they suppose Christ will return on the earth and have a physical kingdom and kill off or win over unbelievers, including Jews. The false prophets today write many books and tell us we need to support Israel because it is chosen of God and the wars there need to fulfil some prophesy. Thus they neglect to see all the evils that take place while the profits get rich. They have a wrong endtimes philosophy but it has become a fundamental point with such people that it is very hard to get them to think otherwise.
Anyway, you have to show them that according to their own bible there is no justification for their position. The passages that they quote do not prove their point. Here let me quote an important statement from Asa Mahan that all people need to carefully ponder. This will take us much deeper than the surface issues and will check the loose interpretations people apply to the bible and other people's statements:
FUNDAMENTAL FACT ABOUT PROOF.
"No proposition is, properly speaking, proven, till facts or arguments are adduced, which not only affirm its truth, but contradict every opposite proposition. How often is this fundamental law of evidence overlooked and disregarded in almost every department of human investigation. In Theology, for example, how often is an hypothesis denominated a doctrine, which merely consists with a given class of passages of Holy Writ, assumed as absolutely affirmed by these passages, when, in reality, they equally consist with the contradictory hypothesis. Let it ever be borne in mind, that no passage or passages of Scripture prove any one doctrine which do not contradict every opposite doctrine. No facts affirm any one hypothesis which do not equally contradict every contradictory hypothesis." Asa Mahan, Intellectual Philosophy. http://truthinheart.com/EarlyOberlinCD/CD/Mahan/Intel.htm
Is it the gov's job?
The Bible says to take care of the poor, and yet I don't think your friend believes in forcing everyone to do so via taxes and redistribution of wealth. So assuming the Bible instructs her to support Israel, why must that be done by through taxes, force, and redistribution of wealth?
My New YouTube Video Deals with the "Evangelical Factor"
This is not spam. Although this is my first post as well, I would like to direct you all to my new YouTube Video that I recently posted on Sunday, that addresses Mike Huckabee the Christian. I am trying to pull support from Mike's base that he thinks he has in "his back pocket". Not so! Ron Paul is a Christian as well, and we need to get this information out to the Evangelicals! Please check out my video, and be so kind as to rate it generously and comment as well (this will help it to win honors, which in turn will have more people check it out). It is doing well, but I need it to go "viral" so that this information spreads!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EzCtlGbJnS0
Video Title: "Christians for Mike Huckabee--A MUST View!!!"
Very good
Sending "Evangelical Factor" to a friend.
To be a smart ass for a moment...
Is there something bad in the water in the Arkansas gov. mansion???
No offense meant!
cheers, Phil
How about www.pastors4ronpaul.com
I can get this going asap. please contact me if you are interested in helping. ohio4ronpaul@gmail.com
I am ordained in the state of ohio, and currently a meetup organizer.
Jason Rink is the Executive Director of The Foundation for a Free Society (www.f4fs.org),and co-host of the Austin, TX based radio show Live Free Austin (www.livefreeaustinradio.com). Check out his personal website at www.jasonrink.com.
Talk to Dr. Paul's brother.
Not sure what faith, but one of the good Dr.'s brothers is a priest.
I Heart Huckabee
Only from the perspective that he is further diluting the small pro-"justifiable war" vote and fortifying a strong Paul showing in the primaries.
Even now the media, while trumpeting Huckabee's "surge" in the polls, is to their credit pointing out how similar he is to the current slick-talking frontrunners.
Here's one for you...
I am an athiest, and was formerly pro-choice... While, I doubt anyone could ever convert me back to Christianity (I know the scripture better than most, if not all of those who try to turn me)... Dr. Paul did use logical arguments to get me on board with the pro-life issue.
I am now pro-life. This is the type of leader needed to sway the masses to the cause of pro-life. The pro-life movement is/was all but dead. What was needed was someone like Dr. Paul who can challenge the way that we think instead of always resorting to sef righteous statements that are usually hurled by the hardcore pro-lifers.
His presidency will alter the very nature of that discussion for a long time to come. It would single handedly bring a lot of new people into the fold.
So if this is truly an important issue, Christian evangelicals need to understand that they need more than a clean record on pro-life, they need someone to inspire people to agree with them!
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
Good points but what do you mean by athiest?
I agree that we need to get people to understand the real issues. We are only going to win if we get people to think for themselves and that honestly. It is not about using force of numbers but about these ideas that change the world, about people coming to maturity to be independant and responsible. RP moves us in this direction unlike any other we have seen in our life time.
Now, what do you mean by atheist? You probably mean agnostic. An atheist asserts there is no God, but that would be rather hard to prove. It is something much different to say rather I don't know what the Ultimate cause of all things is and if there is such a personality. This is no play on words. I don't think you would be saying things like you did about not thinking anyone could convert you back to Christianity if you absolutely knew there is no God. That issue does not come down to the scriptures. I have debated with numerous atheists and do not see the point in discussing the scriptures if someone claims they absolutely know that there is no God. Once you believe that God exists, which is in fact the spontaneous affirmation of the dictates of our intellectual faculties in view of the things that we observe---that is what the entire history of our race has testified to even against the desire to believe such---then you move on to the questions about whether God has revealed more of Himself beyond nature. Many of the founding fathers were Deists and even Jefferson had a bible that he cut out the miracles from: Jefferson Bible. These saw abundant evidence in nature (inward and outward) that there was a personality that was also a moral agent as the first Cause, etc.
I was once a skeptic because I was turned off from false Christianity. I was ignorant of real Christianity and only experienced hypocrisy. I was hardened and prejudiced against all of it. But somehow as a young person as I ran from the police I knew I was running from God. I did not want to serve God and pushed the thoughts out of my head. I had to attack those who believed because then I felt at ease and thought I could silence all the evidence around me. I eventually had to admit that there was evidence, and then I had to go over it. Then I realized I was committed against fair research because I was reactional. Now I am a publisher of many Christian classics, some of which were former skeptics. http://truthinheart.com
I will just end this with saying that most people misunderstand the bible because of the false believers in their day who twist the simple message of the bible. People are repulsed by the prejudice of such 'believers' and thus reject the book itself, in the same way that people reject RP because of some bad supporters they meet.
One more word about the bible and my story. After some years of deep research into the bible I was pressed with a simple question: Either the bible is the greatest lie of all history, or it is the greatest mistake, or it is the greatest truth. When put this way I was forced out of my hiding place as I could not believe that it was a lie or mistake.Same goes with the testimony about Jesus. It is much harder to believe it was a lie or delusional than to believe it is the truth. Yes there are difficulties to work out, but when that question is fully appreciated with all the facts on hand then many of the hardest skeptics in every generation have found it hard to resist the conclusion.
I understand your point... But yes, I am an athiest...
But, I am not a "Religious Athiest"... :) I believe radical athiesm is as much of a cult as many religions. I don't believe there is a god/gods. But I also do not believe it is my responsibility to "preach" that or to convert people to my way of thinking, etc. I think those that do that have serious problems with there own beliefs. Much the same that homophobes/gay bashers tend to be closet homosexuals.
So, nope, not agnostic... :) My understanding of the scriptures comes from when I was Christian and my interest in all religions. Although, my interest in no way means that I seek god or any specific god. Merely a study of human nature.
The Philosophy Of Liberty -
http://www.jonathangullible.com/mmedia/PoL.English.The.Philo...
You can't prove a negative...
...
Where do the facts lead people?
Some like to argue about words but RP supporters tend to be thinkers who like to get to the bottom of things. We may differ with wording but try to understand each other according to the ideas really believed by each person.
It would be hard to prove something did not exist such as an infinite being that had a personality. We naturally reason that effects are not greater than their causes. If we have personality, it is only reasonable to suppose that the cause of us also has personality and is a moral agent in the moral law of the universe. In order to honestly make the declaration that there is no God you would have to have god-like knowledge of the universe. It is just presumption to make such a claim. All the arguments in history used to disprove God have only amounted to disproving bad arguments or false gods. And that is very good so I always welcome discussion.
I believe whatever the issue we are discussing, whether it be the campaign issues, the subject of divine existence or the bible, or how to reason with Christians about how RP and why he is our man---it all comes down to the same thing: we need to go beyond the surface talk and deal with the foundations. Unless people can become logical and submit themselves to the laws of evidence you will just war with them and their surface masks on the outside. If you are not familiar with the fallacies you will fall victim to the formal and informal fallacies all around us. Our first objective is to promote thorough honesty in our research and in our concluding. This is where all the trouble is found. RP stands as someone who we can trust because he cares little for the surface chit chat and goes right to the heart of the problems. We may win over some people with surface appeals to popularity or the like, but once someone has become a thinker and wishes to get to the bottom of things, and finds RP then they become very active in reaching out to others. They become an educator just like RP. They are not like supporter of other candidates who just say I support such and such because he stands for this and that or looks this way, but we have rational hope and we open up fair discussion about all the issues, all of history, including the future.
We need www.pastorsforronpaul.com
Hey everyone,
I think the best thing we can do for the christian community is to get pastors who support Ron Paul to contact pastors in the early Primary states by phone. They would at least give them the time to listen to what they had to say. We have been talking about this idea with the meetup Christians for Ron Paul. We need a website for pastors. We could break down the website by churches denominations and have pastors call their denominations in Iowa,NH, SC... The pastors they called can then been directed to check out the website. We would also have information geared to christians and pastors . I know Chuck Baldwin has a lot of good information we could probably post on the website. I am not computer Savvy, would there be anyone interested in setting this up? Are there pastors out there willing to call and join this group? We need your help now! Please contact me if you can help.
Jennifer Ronpaulprez2008@yahoo.com
Great idea!
Someone please do it!
Did you see the current headline on Drudge ?
"Dems hold fire on Huckabee, see easy kill in the General election"
And they are right. So why is MSM promoting Huckabee ? I'll give you one guess.
Because they love to attack preachers as sinners
They set him up for not just a big political fall but also a moral fall. Gives them an opportunity to show another preacher who does not live by the book. They love to attack Christians. It is a sad fact that most professing Christians are not really Christians according to their own book that they claim is truth. So I think there is more than just the elections in this matter. It is also entertainment.
Thanks a million
great advice. The just war position was what convinced me, too. We have convinced our Messianic leader of the virtues of Ron Paul,(He's affiliated with both the Christian Missionary Alliance and the Messianic movement). What convinced him was the smaller government stand, and Paul's moral character.
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
VERY SMART!!
We need to be helping Ron Paul's campaign and alienating groups of voters isn't the way to do it. Regardless of our personal feelings. I'm glad to see people are thinking about this. I commend the writer of this post!! FANTASTIC!! I agree that we need to quit dogging out Huckabee. It's counterproductive. It makes him a martyr against the godless basement conspirators that we have been perceived to be. We all know that perception is wrong but let's not play into it.
Janet
You've got to watch Huckabee
He's pretty slippery. Even though he holds himself out to be an ordained minister, he sure has a penchant for hardball politics, and to me, therein lies a conflict. His record here in Arkansas is ugly. More tax increases than any other Gov., and more felony pardons than all 6 surrounding States combined. When he moved out of the Gov. mansion, he even tried to take the furniture with him! I'm afraid Huck will "say anything, do anything, sell anything" to be the prince of power. No foreign experience, no military experience, flip flops on about everything. But he sure does have a smart campagin staff.
alan laney
I saw him at the SC straw poll
He was very smooth, very smooth. He can lie better than the best of them.
Nice.
Friends of faith I have spoken to are very impressed with Ron Paul's usage of Just War doctrine in real life. This message WORKS.
Getting this message out to those of faith is our biggest asset.
America is sick, call a doctor! Dr. Ron Paul.
Great Idea
I'll be praying for you!
Another think I don't understand is this: Why do Christians support Mike Huckabee who supports the "mark of the beast" (National ID)?