What a Commercial, MUST SEE!!!
Submitted by rp4prez2008 on Tue, 12/11/2007 - 15:29
Watch (but get your tissues out, you'll need them):
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I loved it so much....
...I e-mailed a link to my Hillary Clinton supporting husband. To hell with the inevitable criticizing, unherdable cats who make up so much of the Ron Paul supporters.
P.S. I love you guys. Being a highly opinionated person myself, I do understand how refreshing it is for us to be able to actually give our input into the presidential campaign instead of just sit back and take orders from them.
critics of this commercial
Remembe a few things.
1. This ad isnt for the converted but made to explain in 30 seconds what Ron Paul would do about the war
2. Patriotism sells. Bottom line. There's a reason a beer company would use this type of imagery
3. All this intellectual debate over whether or not the military has done evil things is moot. The purpose of the commercial isnt to delve into that question. The purpose of the spot is to convey the emotion of what life will be like with Ron Paul as president. The pride and patriotism we would feel when our men and women come home
4. I'm starting a site to pay for our own ads. The campaign is run by amateurs who were probably not ready to manage a campagin of this magnitude. No disrespect to them but they should've never let the new health care ad out the door. What is Jesse Bentons experience in communications prior to working in this campaign? Is he responsible for approving these ads before Dr. Paul sees them?
-----------------DO YOU REALLY WANT RON TO WIN------------------
Ron needs more than just money. Send this strategy to mail@ronpaul2008.com and also to press@ronpaul2008.com if these ideas make sense to you
www.dailypaul.com/node/14009
I think its wrong to use soldier actors
from an Anhauser Busch commercial to make a point for Ron Paul. Its smarmy and seems exploitative of the image of a returning veteran.
Dr. Paul himself saying " I was a flight surgeon in the Vietnam war. As Commander-In-Chief, I would never send our men & women into harm's way unless the defence of our great country were immediately at risk. No one knows the value of peace like our soldiers, so let's bring them home now. " --- that would be a good ad.
Publisher of Cannabis Culture Magazine
Publisher of Cannabis Culture Magazine, Leader of the BC Marijuana Party, libertarian activist and candidate since 1979.
Great Idea, but....
Creatively it's an awesome idea.
I will never condemn our soldiers, but I will not applaud them either, except for the courageous few who have admitted the truth and refused to follow the unlawful orders. Generally, our soldiers are grossly misguided. Our nation has a lot of atonement due for what we have allowed our military to become. Our military is an instrument of oppression, not a force for freedom, regardless of the naivete of the soldiers and most of the public. We fight wars to eliminate economic competition and dominate markets & resources. This has been true beginning with WWI, and ever since. Any sincere student of history will come to the same conclusion. Yes, Bush & Cheney sent them to Iraq, but each soldier is also duty-bound to refuse an unlawful order, and moral-bound to not attack or invade a people that did not attack us. Government and the people failed our soldiers, and then our soldiers failed us. Someone in the chain needed to exercise moral conviction and say NO, but it didn't happen. We all knew Iraq didn't attack us long before we attacked them, and we all knew the Afghan people didn't attack us either. We didn't care enough about the Constitution or morals.
As a society we glorify the soldier, never thinking that the very idea is immoral. What kind of nation would want it's warriors to be devoid of independent thinking and fearful of challenging authority, willing to kill anyone without question? Does anyone think that mindset would be needed if our nation was being attacked by a foreign military? Ridiculous. There would be so many volunteers willing to fight, the government wouldn't have enough guns for us all. That mindset is only needed for an offensive force. Our nation, and every other nation, would be far more safe if our warriors were taught to be wise, compassionate, personally responsible for what they do, and to ALWAYS question orders. Instead, we've adopted a system that attempts to strip the humanity out of the soldiers so we can send them to kill & destroy anywhere anytime, and then we wonder why half of the ones who return are mentally ill. It's about time we all faced up to what has happened to our society, and committed to changing more than just the facade.
Sorry for the heavy thoughts, but it's got to be said.
David
Can't change the nature of armed forces
Armed forces have two purposes: kill people and break things. Note that making foreign policy is not one of those functions. An armed force will not work if the soldiers habitually question orders. Part of the training of the soldier, now and probably throughout history, is to eliminate any inclination in the soldier to question orders. That is part of the reason they will walk into the valley of the shadow of death. If you expect soldiers to correct errors in our foreign policy, you are expecting what never has been and never will be. It CAN'T be. And (with VERY rare exceptions) holding soldiers individually responsible for the things they are ordered to do is unfair. It is scapegoating.
This is why armed forces must be used with extreme reluctance. Unleashing an armed force is a terrible thing because innocent people ALWAYS die and things of value are ALWAYS destroyed. Sometimes it is necessary, but it is NEVER going to be nice. It is never going to spare the innocent. It is never going to make friends. It cannot be helped. That is the nature of force.
We NEED an armed force that instills fear in the hearts of anyone who even thinks about attacking us. Our armed forces must be very, very good at following orders. They must be very good at killing people and breaking things. The better they are at doing their job, the less likely we will ever have to use them - IF we confine our "empire" to our own borders.
Blaming the soldiers for doing their job (following orders) is wrong. It is the policy makers and ultimately the public that deserve the blame when the armed forces do something "wrong". And it is up to us to correct it. And that is why we are going to put Ron Paul in the White House!
Peace
And this needs to be said in response
Your argument, though written as a literary classic, is based upon two flawed premises.
First, the premise is that our soldiers are mindless and ignorant. It is typical of the anti-War movement to think of soldiers that way. It's also bigoted nonsense. The range of intelligence varies from the uber-smart to the downright stupid. Compared with the civilian population, I've found military men and women to be of above average intelligence on the whole, and incomparably wiser. Did you spend any time working with the military that led you to this conclusion that they are devoid of independent thinking, fearful of challenging authority (oh boy i laughed really hard at that one - you OBVIOUSLY never served), and unwise?
Second, in case you didn't know this, not everyone in the military carries a gun. Many are in support roles, some of which are so far removed from any battlefield that it is hard to fathom what kind of impact they have on it.
You know what? I should be sleeping but instead I'm just going to destroy your whole argument with my below average military mind:
1. Generally, our soldiers are grossly misguided
Generally, I don't start out an argument by making a sweeping generalization for which I offer no supporting data.
2. Our nation has a lot of atonement due for what we have allowed our military to become
Our nation has a lot of atonement for what IT has become. Our military is an extension of our nation. Try to remember cause and effect next time you make an argument.
3. Our military is an instrument of oppression
Wrong again. Our military can be an instrument of oppression if used as one by our Government. It can also be the protector of our way of life if used by a wise statesman.
4. Government and the people failed our soldiers, and then our soldiers failed us.
I failed you, huh? Right....... I'm just gonna let out a hearty chuckle and let that one go. As I mentioned before, I'll be sure to tell my girlfriend in the Air Force that she failed you when she kept the Exchange server up and running in Kuwait last year. You idiot.
I'm just too tired right now to respond any more. I want everyone to come home now as well, but I've about had it up to here with these judgmental, know-it-all, holier-than-thou anti-war ASSES.
-dave
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
SHE STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN - Michael Savage in reference to Dianne Fienstein
David Burns
Simi Valley, CA
Argument destroyed!
HooRah!
"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan
Expected "Uh Rah" Response....
Of course, there's nothing like truth to really piss people off. I do have experiential authority to speak on this matter, but will not give in to your diversion attempt. Accept some wisdom from Dr. Paul, and argue the ideas, not the messenger.
I clearly do not judge members of the military any more harshly than the rest of society. It's simply that the morality of our militarized culture is considered not suitable for discussion, and isn't discussed, which is wholly contrary to the interest of maintaining liberty. Predominantly in history, it is a nation's own military and police who squash liberty and imprison dissenters, and with the current mindset in public and in the US military, it could happen here.
We've all heard endlessly how intelligent and independent-minded our soldiers are, yet the unlawful and immoral wars and covert ops continue unabated. Your smart buddies are preparing to attack Iran as we speak, and they'll say "Yes Sir" no matter how murderous, illegal, and idiotic the plan may be. Yes, they are put in a no-win situation that no one with sense would want to be in, but they chose to be in that position, and they have the option to say "NO" at any time. The culture, the "training", and fear of losing their career will override their moral courage; you know it, and I know it. Stop pretending to be the courageous person you're not, or show your courage by telling the truth.
You highlight a factor that I didn't mention, which is the fanatical fraternity mindset that is also part of the programming. Some people have the strength to see above it, but most do not. It creates a divide between the soldier and the citizen that is completely unnecessary, except for making an offensive, oppressive force. By thinking you are superior because you joined the military, and no "civilian" understands, you preempt any further reasoning about the true nature of the organization you blindly support. You falsely attack me for being prejudiced for supposedly saying that soldiers are less intelligent, and then argue that they are MORE intelligent than the rest of us. Convenient. Your message reminds me of Jack Nicholson's famous Colonel Jessup courtroom scene. But I guess you missed the morals there too....
Again, I'm only asking that our society as a whole be able to begin looking at itself honestly. If we can't do that, then liberty is a non-starter. We can all share the blame for what's happened. Fixing it is where I'm focused, and fixing it starts with truth, however unpopular.
David
So I expect you to withdraw your support for Ron Paul
We've all heard endlessly how intelligent and independent-minded our soldiers are, yet the unlawful and immoral wars and covert ops continue unabated. Your smart buddies are preparing to attack Iran as we speak, and they'll say "Yes Sir" no matter how murderous, illegal, and idiotic the plan may be. Yes, they are put in a no-win situation that no one with sense would want to be in, but they chose to be in that position, and they have the option to say "NO" at any time. The culture, the "training", and fear of losing their career will override their moral courage; you know it, and I know it.
According to your logic, Ron Paul could have said "NO" at any time during the Vietnam war. I expect you, along with Desert Rat, to promptly withdraw your support for Ron Paul and find yourselves another suitable candidate. How can you continue to support a candidate who didn't have the courage to walk away from the military during a time of illegal war in which babies were being slaughtered? In fact, my goodness, he still talks openly about his service during that time, WITH NO REMORSE!!! You must be appalled.
I'm going to miss you on this message board. Take care, and may God bless you wherever you land.
-dave
David Burns
Simi Valley, CA
Updated!
watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNZgeYnpPDU
We must hang together, or surely we will hang separately
We must hang together, or surely we will hang separately
Desert Rat....
I agree with most of what you said. I believe most of the troops meant well when they decided to go (they were LIED to), but once you get into such an intense situation morals sort of go to the wayside. So, I certainly do not believe they are bad people, but they were lied to, and, with any war, it is full of tragedies.
The true fault lies with the Bush Admin.....
However, they deserve applause on one hand because they THOUGHT they would be protecting our freedoms. The horrible things some may have committed are their own to deal with, it is why suicide rates are so high.
The soldiers should not receive scorn when they return, applause for what they thought was serving their country, and all the treaments they require to recover. However, I don't agree with the blind "support the troops" as part of me holds back praise becuase such travesties have been committed.
Being a soldier is their job.....that turns into immense pressure to go to war (or go to jail)....immense pressure when they get there to go against their morals in the interest of the self survival....so its basically a messed situation as a whole.....
All in all this should be a lesson to all people. If you sign a contract with the military you are under oath to defend the Constitution, so we should not be so quick to rush into a preemptive war against a defenseless people.
"Truth is treason in the empire of lies." - Ron Paul
My ideas for campaign ads here
MY SUGGESTION IS TO FOCUS ON DISSPELLING 3 MYTHS ABOUT RON PAUL WHILE BOLSTERING HIS IMAGE
1. MYTH: He's not "really" a republican
Answer: Spot that shows quotes from Ronald Reagan with pictures of when Ron campaigned for him. Ron does a voice over of what Ronald Reagan meant to him and what being a republican USED to stand for. Also shots of Goldwater and other great republicans.
Effect: Dispels myth while putting Ron with one of the greatest names in Republican party history
2. MYTH: He's "weak" on the war
Answer: The Beer commerical idea on a smaller scale. Ron talks about what it was like to lose friends in the war and to treat guys who went into battle and never returned. Visual of serviceman on the phone with his wife. His young daughter in her arms. Spot ends with Ron saying "...Lets bring our men and women home safely and secure peace on our borders" with the visual of the Serviceman being greeted by his wife at the front door of their home.
Effect: Dispels myth while letting emotions of our military coming home really resonate. This spot will get a lot of Dems to reconsider and look at Ron Paul again.
3. MYTH: He's crazy
Answer: " Some people think my ideas are a bit over the top. I remember when my views were considered normal in the republican party. Following the constitution. Small government. Freedom. Liberty. In my books crazy isnt defending the constitution. Crazy is not saving money and expecting to take care of our seniors who depend on social security while our country's debt skyrockets. We need a sound domestic policy that will improve our kids educations, fund medicare and reduce taxes. With me as your president I'll make sure that the job gets done."
(these line needs improvement)
Effect: dispels myth by showing that he's not crazy but just a patriotic American you can trust. Someone whos got principles and a realistic strategy for funding senior care
Feedback welcomed.
-----------------DO YOU REALLY WANT RON TO WIN------------------
Ron needs more than just money. Send this strategy to mail@ronpaul2008.com and also to press@ronpaul2008.com if these ideas make sense to you
www.dailypaul.com/node/14009
These are great ideas!
RP anticipated you on #3, but he used the word "flake" which of course was introduced into the conversation by the CNN bimbo (sorry, ladies).
I think "flake" is better anyway. There's something about someone saying "I.m NOT CRAZY" that leaves a bad impression. :-)
Your BEEF is not with those
Your BEEF is not with those people in the video, nor with us. We are them and so are you.
Your BEEF is with W and his people.
All the more reason to BOW-UP for Ron Paul. JMHO
No Harm Intended.
Great Add!!
Ideas for future commercials
MY SUGGESTION IS TO FOCUS ON DISSPELLING 3 MYTHS ABOUT RON PAUL WHILE BOLSTERING HIS IMAGE
1. MYTH: He's not "really" a republican
Answer: Spot that shows quotes from Ronald Reagan with pictures of when Ron campaigned for him. Ron does a voice over of what Ronald Reagan meant to him and what being a republican USED to stand for. Also shots of Goldwater and other great republicans.
Effect: Dispels myth while putting Ron with one of the greatest names in Republican party history
2. MYTH: He's "weak" on the war
Answer: The Beer commerical idea on a smaller scale. Ron talks about what it was like to lose friends in the war and to treat guys who went into battle and never returned. Visual of serviceman on the phone with his wife. His young daughter in her arms. Spot ends with Ron saying "...Lets bring our men and women home safely and secure peace on our borders" with the visual of the Serviceman being greeted by his wife at the front door of their home.
Effect: Dispels myth while letting emotions of our military coming home really resonate. This spot will get a lot of Dems to reconsider and look at Ron Paul again.
3. MYTH: He's crazy
Answer: " Some people think my ideas are a bit over the top. I remember when my views were considered normal in the republican party. Following the constitution. Small government. Freedom. Liberty. In my books crazy isnt defending the constitution. Crazy is not saving money and expecting to take care of our seniors who depend on social security while our country's debt skyrockets. We need a sound domestic policy that will improve our kids educations, fund medicare and reduce taxes. With me as your president I'll make sure that the job gets done."
(these line needs improvement)
Effect: dispels myth by showing that he's not crazy but just a patriotic American you can trust. Someone whos got principles and a realistic strategy for funding senior care
Feedback welcomed.
-----------------DO YOU REALLY WANT RON TO WIN------------------
Ron needs more than just money. Send this strategy to mail@ronpaul2008.com and also to press@ronpaul2008.com if these ideas make sense to you
www.dailypaul.com/node/14009
I like it. I'm sure somebody will take you up on that.
The RP Revolution Rocks!!!
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." -Thomas Paine
I don't get it...
This isn't a Ron Paul commercial, it's an anheiser bush commercial. Someone just put Ron Paul on the end...
"People should not be afraid of their governments; governments should be afraid of their people." - V for Vendetta
Sorry to throw a turd in the punch bowl, but…
… I didn't think this was a good commercial at all. No tears here. These are trained killers. They all volunteered to travel to another country in order to kill it's inhabitants (innocent, men, women and children… made no difference). None of them are protecting our freedoms. Some may have been fooled into going, but most were not. They deserve no praise or applause… They are invaders, mercenaries and murderers. Iraq had no army, navy or air force. They were basically defenseless against the most powerful military force on earth. Liken it to having 100 black belt Kung Fu experts murdering a three year old child.
Now, before I am crucified let me clarify that I am a U.S. Marine Corps Viet Nam combat veteran. I know from what I speak. In Viet Nam, we MURDERED innocent peasants, farmers, women, babies, the same goes for Iraq … For what? FOR LIES!
My soul is forever damned for what I have done. I can never be forgiven for the part that I played and I don't expect forgiveness. For me, I will not glorify the troops or a senseless and evil war where there are knowing and willing participants. But by all means… bring the troops home and give Iraq their country back. Ron Paul is far above using the troops as a gimmick to win the GOP nomination. That is something I would expect from the other candidates.
“I thought dying for your country was the worst thing that could happen to you. I think killing for your country can be a lot worse. Because that's the memory that haunts.” Bob Kerry (told to The New York Times)
“Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality”
stupid
Way to collectivize your guilt and throw it on us. Sorry you were a crappy soldier. I know plenty of Iraq veterans who served honorably.
The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt
If I ever meet you, I will hurt you badly
My father was Marine infantry in Vietnam and gave his right leg, amputated from above the knee. He made his sacrifice. He is at peace because he knows he didn't engage any non-combatants. So don't you ever say WE killed innocent civilians. You may have, and that's what you have to live with.
I served in the Marines as well. I joined in 1996. I did not volunteer to travel to another country and kill innocents.
My girlfriend is in the Air Force. She works IT. She fixes servers and computers. She is not a trained killer, and she is heading to the Middle East on orders very soon. She joined in 1996 as well on a six year contract.
Do you know what Stop Loss is?
Do you even have any idea what the f*ck you are talking about?
I know this too. Something here doesn't jive. I think you are full of sh*t because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
And I swear to God, if I ever meet you in person, I will hurt you.
-dave
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
SHE STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN - Michael Savage in reference to Dianne Fienstein
David Burns
Simi Valley, CA
hear hear
sf cpt desert storm, panama, hurrican andrew!
And they are also college
And they are also college students, and fathers, and mothers. People who needed a job. People who needed money. People who thought, or still do believe they are fighting for the Good of Iraq. People who believed in our leaders. I believe many troops are doing good things over there. I believe there are many good men and woman serving this country. The war as a whole, the reason we are there, that has become the evil.
I was for the war in the beginning. I believed something had to be done... but I, like most people, was still confused with what had happened and what needed to be done. Our leaders used words like freedom and prosperity to garner approval of the war. The lies were twisted in with the truth, in with the good. Then, as if to confuse us again, they said we need to press forward to assure peace in Iraq. This to seemed like a good thing, a admirable idea. Even now a large portion of the public are still being misled by the lies.
I will not place blame on the troops. Good intentions often make way for an evil conclusion. There has been plenty of times in my life that well meaning intentions have failed. Soldiers are taught to obey. If the American public was so easily misled, then how hard would it be for a soldier to discern the truth.
And your soul is not forever damned. I for one greatly appreciate the sacrifice you made. Your decision to express your regrets will allow a few to see the truths of war. It is truly sad that those things happened, and that you were privy to it, This is the nature of man though. Condemnation only comes from within. If you feel that you will never be forgiven, then you won't be. But if you want to get past that, then embrace my generation and share the lessons you learned. See to it that the same "good intentions" don't continue to go astray. I feel like my generation lacks this knowledge, and most people seem out of touch with the realities of this world. My heart has always had compassion for anyone, anywhere. Even now it amazes me that such strong compassion could lead to such a horrible end.
As for this commercial, isn't this just a rip off? I know i have seen this video before.
Ouch!
Wow! I hope you realize some day how callous and unfair your gross generalizations sound.
You will speak powerfullly if you own your own past, but you will undermine any point if you falsely accuse 100,000s of men and women -- who are different from you and whom you do not know -- of commiting your transgressions. Your personal sins are not forgiven by tarnishing others.
Please be cautious about confusing others into thinking that your beliefs about service men reflect RP's belief.
Don't Vote For Ron Paul for anything less than
Re[love]ution & Renaissance
Dennis
I agree though
that the commercial was nothing special. It represents what should happen when the troopers come home, but reality is quite different.
"It does not take a majority to prevail. But rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." ~Samuel Adams while plotting the Boston Tea Party.
http://disillusionedrants.blogspot.com/
Redemption and absolution
Is always possible. I know a lot of guys that went to Viet Nam, and most know what they did, and want to make amends somehow. Of course each experience is different.
The same is true for the Iraqi vets,. many are just National guard, trying to earn a few extra bucks, and got called up. Others are just young kids just out of High School. Others thought they could get college money from being in the army.
I've seen too many of these kids racked with PTSD, and guilt. So I think you are being too harsh.
Blame the politicians,
not the troopers.
I resent your statement about our troops. I've known quite a few, even from Vietnam and not everyone is a baby killer like you brother. You can't blame the grunts for the policies they are ordered to follow. The whole statement above is asinine.
"It does not take a majority to prevail. But rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." ~Samuel Adams while plotting the Boston Tea Party.
http://disillusionedrants.blogspot.com/
I don't agree....
One of my best friends joined the marines out of high school. He was dealing with a bad home situation with his dad and needed to just get out of town. While he did learn how to defend this country while he was in, he never went in hoping to get a chance to kill people. Once you're in, you are taught from day one not to question because that will get your buddies killed on the battlefield. You are taught to follow orders or else. The troops were lied to about the reasons we were going in just like the rest of us. I appreciate your service to your country Desert Rat... I humbly disagree though.
Bring our neighbors home Ron Paul!!!
"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman." -Thomas Paine
Desert Rat
....my brother who still wonders why he came back when so many didn't thinks like you. His life was never the same (...and now the Veterans Hospital is studying him like a rat under glass/Agent Orange effects and all. Even *that* makes him feel awful as so many can't even get into the VA program.)
I'm thinking about what you said. I dunno. But this I do know. You were lied to and went under false pretenses and troubled tho you may be about it, your soul is just fine. We recently helped a kid who was running away from Marine Boot Camp (not because he was a coward, but because he learned the truth.) He got the right information and got out. Let's get Ron Paul elected...and stop the insanity.
fonta
I think you're being too hard on yourself
but that's none of my business.
I was there '67 '68 '69, but not incountry per se (North SAR) (ok, I was a worthless squid).
But we all share the responsibility and it informs every political thought I have.
Thanks for the Kerry quote. One of my exes was pissed at me because I dissed John Kerry. She had him mixed up with Bob Kerry, who I admire greatly (as a person). I straightened her out.
She had one of those Emily Latella "nevermind" moments!
Bob Kerry quote not John Kerry :-)
"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams
“Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality”