I need your help DailyPaul, my gun rights are one petition away.

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Long story short: A couple years ago I was arrested for sleeping in my car (.05 BOC, but I was underage)in a parking lot. I had psilocybin mushrooms in my possession thus charged with a felony. I am (for the most part) a free man now except for my second amendment right to bear arms (lifetime ban), because my possession of psilocybin mushrooms is a violent act under Minnesota State law (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.713)

Minnesota law states that I can petition the court for restoration under statute # 609.165
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=609.165

Anyhow, I would very much appreciate any advice you guys could give me as far as the content of the petition and how to go about it. Or if this has happened to any other unfortunate souls?

Thank you!

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Good news for me, at least.

I can't believe I missed this. I was too busy looking at definitions to read the specific part of the statute I thought pertained to me.

Here is the clause I was worried about: a person who is or has ever been committed in Minnesota or elsewhere by a judicial determination that the person is mentally ill, developmentally disabled, or mentally ill and dangerous to the public, as defined in section 253B.02, to a treatment facility, or who has ever been found incompetent to stand trial or not guilty by reason of mental illness, unless the person's ability to possess a firearm has been restored under subdivision 4

Now, in my first reading of this bit, I thought it said that anyone who has been diagnosed as mentally ill and has/had been confined to a treatment facility was ineligible to own a handgun, but after a closer examination, I picked out this key phrase: "by a judicial determination." While I would likely fit the descriptions of a person who is mentally ill, and I was confined in a treatment facility (for 4 days when I was 13, without any self inflicted injuries or anything), I was not diagnosed or sentenced to a treatment facility by a court, which means I am not subject to this section! In fact, when going down the tree of definitions, the areas that would consider me to be mentally ill are only applicable to case management and community support services.

This is very good news for me! I can't believe I have wasted so much energy thinking about how to get around laws that don't apply to me. Now I can actually look at handguns as a prospective customer. I had been forced to only look at rifles, though I must say, I am in love with the PS-90 (http://www.fnhusa.com/mil/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FN...)

This has to be one of the coolest guns available. It has been a classic gun found throughout pop culture (Goldeneye, Counter-Stike, Stargate SG-1, MAG), and its sleek, futuristic design is very pleasing to the eye, and it also has a top-loaded 50-round detachable magazine! Of course, it's also $2000, which is out of my price range at the moment.

Anyway, best of luck to you! I'll see you at the firing range.

All of the posters are striving to bend over

to appease the MAN. I say....screw these bastards. No changes will ever be implemented until we are brought to our knees. Get over it.
Go see a lawyer??? Get legal advice??? I say, screw them all! This zit needs popped! What is it going to take to drive the sheeple to revolution? I don't know,... and maybe I am talking to a bunch of 20 something kids who have no idea of what freedom is. I just pray that we all shall wake up and grow a set of balls.
My answer in short is... why petition for something you already own? The right to bear arms. Buy all the guns you can , black market, and quit trying to appease these bastards. You are young and public school educated. Therefore you ask such questions. No one is going to help you. So young friend, declare your sovereignty, and make a stand.
Regards....

Yes, my apologize, oh sir of

Yes, my apologize, oh sir of all ultimate wisdom! You are above me and every other 20 something.

Tell me how this helps when I am ripped from my house, thrown in jail, and forced to pay 15000. Ya that sounds like a good cause for liberty! I'll sit in jail for a couple years and convert all the prisoners to the cause of liberty, there ya go! Now I'll have lots of time to organize a revolution!

Right...

RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME
R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012!
Mises.org

You might try legalzoom.com

You might try legalzoom.com they might have a template for said petition. As to the wording tell them what a great guy you are and how you changed your life around and are not a threat to anyone and that your crime was non-violent etc. and your rights should be reinstated. Also check your state laws and as soon as possible have that record expunged, you can do that yourself also...

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

I believe a better choice would be.....

WWW.COMMONLAWVENUE.COM. Try this website. It provides great/helpful information for individuals pursing their sovereignty. And the best part, they are out of Minnesota. Good Luck.

Are you really a patriot?

legalzoom my ass. How old are you?

Listen up...

Listen up A-hole.. The kid is free to participate in socialist democracy if he pleases and that is what he is doing. How is his getting arrested and thrown the key away because he takes your advice and does not yet know how to claim his sovereignty going to help anything?

Enough people are never going to claim thier sovereignty to make a stand till things get much worse and painful so get over it and get prepared and quit acting like an ass.

You want him to do something he knows nothing about then teach him how to do it instead of acting like an idiot and blaming people you know nothing about on internet boards...

-----
End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!

Get Prepared!

I don't recognize the authority of any government....

to deny me my rights. I simply refuse to submit to the law.
Of course, I'm 60 years old and live every day as if it were my last.

Got to love ya...

Bob. My sentiments exactly.

Consult an attorney.

I know how everyone is hip on 'sticking it to the man' here and playing their own game and I understand that, but if I were you I wouldn't screw around on this one. Ask an attorney and maybe get one to help you. Here's why:

You were a minor who screwed up when he was young. We've all done something like that at some point I'm sure. A competent attorney should be able to make this go away fairly easily, though the process of this petition is very time-consuming. Here in my state it takes approximately a year.

Representing yourself stacks the deck against you in a case with our current system, and a failure to successfully petition for restoration is going to make it even harder to get them back later on the grounds of "he was denied once already, why should we do it now?" Combine this with the sentiment of liberals on gun control, and you have a damn long shot of doing this yourself.

I can't advise you one way or the other, but you should consider "are the stakes really worth one-upping the establishment?"

Give me a break you public schooled idiots!

You are asking an attorney for advice? Follow Shakespeare's advice!

I agree consult the

attorney, Make sure it is one that is close to the judge, who will not mind slipping part of your very expensive payment to the judge to make sure the ruling goes the way you want.

SIC

bad advice....

As he said; consult a lawyer.

As he said; consult a lawyer. They are the ones with experience in appearing convincing to their fellow legal establishment colleagues. Trying to go it yourself is short changing yourself.

Or, see if you can find a more civilized state to move to.

Not...

bad advice.

I feel your pain

I'm not allowed to own a handgun because I have Bipolar disorder and a nasty vocal tic. Do I have homicidal ideations? Of course I do, but unlike the other people with Bipolar disorder, I'm a hardcore libertarian and passionately follow the non-aggression principle. I don't want to kill random innocent people, I want to kill the guy who IS killing random innocent people!

As for your problem... first off, keep in mind that I am not a lawyer (yet), but as far as I can tell, the petition in this case is not a classical signature gathering petition. To petition a court means to appear in court before a judge (and possibly a jury) and state your case for why you should be allowed to own a gun. Should you make your case well enough and the judge/jury aren't jerks, they can reinstate your rights.

That sounds a bit retarded to me as it makes it sound like owning a firearm is a privilage that can be taken away. Owning a firearm is a fundamental right that is protected by the constitution, not granted by it, and so any legislation that would prohibit someone from procuring a firearm is unconstitutional and is null and void.

As for what to say when you actually get to court, I would just tell them your story. Make sure to bring up the fact that having mushrooms is considered a violent crime, yet there were no victims other than yourself.

I would love to represent you, but it's going to be about 7-10 years before I make it through law school. Maybe by then I will have figured a way out of my restriction, too. Then we could go hit the range together!

How does a vocal tic enter into it?

My son has a vocal tic, but I needed to get him dx'd about something else and I couldn't get a referral based on the something else, but, as soon as I mention the vocal tic, all the sudden people take notice. I've been around enough Tourette's that the tic was the least of my worries, but somehow the world thinks it's a bigger deal than it is.

Anyhow, as soon as he improved enough that I could handle him myself, I stopped all the paperwork to get him dx'd. It wasn't so much about what I knew he'd be discriminated against for getting a dx, but about how disabilities may be discriminated against in the future - you just never know what silliness the world will cook up next. It sounds like I made the right choice to handle him myself if I could.

Defend Liberty!

The damn tic

My tic is similar to those in Tourette's, but fundamentally different. Whereas a Tourette's tic is entirely based on brain activity, my tic is a stimulus-response process that increases in intensity and frequency when my stress levels go up. Unlike the tics from Tourette's, while I have no control over the tic occuring, I have the ability to stop the tic from being verbalized, or at least to muffle it. However, it takes up a large amount of energy and brainpower in order to stop it, so it is a constant drain on my energy.

Before I continue describing it, I have to give you some background on how the tick formed in the first place.

For several years, I was on Lithium Carbonate, which helped me a ton to get back to being a functioning member of society, but this was only possible because it made me emotionally flat and I had to wall off all of my memories from a certain point back. After I had been stable for several years, the decision was made to switch to a different medication so I wouldn't have the nasty side effects of the Lithium (hypothyroidism, severe acne, weight gain, emotionally flat).

Unfortunately, this switch had unintended consequences. After being so flat for so long, the sudden range of emotions I got were overwhelming, and I slowly started taking down the memory wall, too. While I regained all of the good memories, I also regained all my bad memories. I have so many memories of everything I see or hear, and almost everything I see or hear reminds me of something similar, but often with several degrees of seperation. As in, I see something that reminds me of something else, which reminds me of something else, which reminds me of something else, and that is what I am laughing at. Of course, when something lead me to a bad memory, I couldn't find a way to express my feelings for it, even with my newfound range of emotion. This is what lead to the formation of the tic. The tic is a way to express the negative feelings that I get when something reminds me of a bad memory. The frustrating part about it is that the stimulus can be either external (like on the TV) or internal (in my thought processes) and still have an effect.

The reason why the tic would affect my chances at getting a gun is because of what the tic says. Before I say what it says, I have to point out that to quote this out of context could likely put me into a locked psyche ward, which is something I want to avoid at all costs. The tic varies slightly, but is usually along the lines of, "Kill/Destroy them all." This stems from a root desire to kill other people. However, I am a hardcore libertarian and a dedicated follower of the non-aggression principle. I have no desire to harm innocent people, and I don't want to go around on a killing spree. I don't want to be that guy, I want to kill that guy. My desire is to be the hero, not the villan.

It is interesting to note that I got into a few scrapes in grade school and never lost a single fight. Yet, it was almost never me who initiated the fight. Others attacked me, and I defended myself, but the key was that I only used enough force to end the fight and walk away. On one occasion in middle-school, I made the racist observation, "From what I have seen in this school, the black students are more aggressive than the white ones." Guess who tried following me home to try and beat me up? Yup, a black student. He and a lackey tackled me (I heard their footsteps), so I just said, "See? This is what I was talking about!" He immediately stopped attacking, dumbfounded, so I just got up and kept on walking. I defeated him without lifting a finger.

The point of those annecdotes is to show that I am a generally non-violent person, and when I do have to use force, I only use enough to get away. I also warn people before I resort to force. I was being pushed from behind by some jerks who were pissed that I kicked Mike Tyse's (former Vikings coach) son in the face (they had been humiliating me on a mass scale in the locker room). I told them to stop, then warned them that I would be forced to resort to physical violence if they pushed me again, then I turned around, grabbed the nearest guy and threw him to the ground, then did the same to another, then I turned around and left.

I'm a good person, but my tic makes me sound like a bad person. It is very frustrating to deal with.

There's a trick to use with tics

it's to replace it with something else instead of trying to resist it. Resisting brings the tic to the front of your mind and you have other things to be using your brain for, especially in a tense moment. So, when you get the urge to express the tic, you purposefully say something else instead.

It really does work, but it takes time to replace a habit with another. My mom used "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" when it first came out to help my brother who had Tourette's because there wasn't much else to try back then and she was able to help him with that.

Defend Liberty!

Thank you.

According Minnesota statute #624.713 (https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.713) a person of your nature can appeal your loss of gun rights in the form of a petition to the court, although you state laws may very well be different.

And yes I understand what petition means, it is just the language they use in their statutes.

http://mncourts.gov/?page=513, this web page has a list of forms(petitions) that are ready to fill out for the judge, my problem is that I have to make one up myself, and I have learned(by calling the court) that if I do not do so correctly the court will simply deny my petition and I will have to wait 3 years to correct my form.

Our Conversation,
"Hello, I am looking for an example of a form or petition to reinstate my gun rites as per statute, 609.165"
"uhh.. we don't have such things"
"do you know where I could find them, the website I have been given does not have the appropriate forum"
"I suggest talking to a lawyer"
"As a common citizen I feel that I should be able to do this without a lawyer"
"Oh yes certainly, the thing is, if you do make the form out with the required information the petition may well be denied and you will have to wait 3 years."
"So where can I find the required information?"
"Sir, we do not give out legal advice"
"How do the attorneys know the required information"
"experience, I dont know, sir your just going to have to find that information from a law library or something."

It was a lost cause so the conversation soon ended...
oh but she did give me the website I already had.

RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME
R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012!
Mises.org

You're not talking about any of your 'rights' here.

What you're talking about here is the permission you're seeking to be granted by the government to be allowed to legally carry a weapon.

BTW...this isn't intended to be adversarial. I just want you to understand the difference between the free excersice of a right versus asking someone else for permission to do something.

Violation and penalty. (a)

Violation and penalty.

(a) Any person who has been convicted of a crime of violence, as defined in section 624.712, subdivision 5, and who ships, transports, possesses, or receives a firearm, commits a felony and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 15 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $30,000, or both.

RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME
R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012!
Mises.org

So you believe your 'rights' are what others tell you they are?

I'm not trying to be combative here, I'm trying to help you to realize you're asking for permission to own and/or carry a gun. Rights do not require permission to be excercised. Quoting statutes is doing nothing more than saying 'look, here's what the people known as government are willing to allow me to do without penalizing me'.

Well ya, its crazy. Why do

Well ya, its crazy. Why do you think i'm at the DailyPaul? I guess I have weighed my options and right now I am not willing to take the risk of owning a gun because what our current government has the ability to do to me is to terrible. I may very well reconsider when or if I have a family someday, or if the times are really starting to get rough. But right it's best to play their game and get it back their way.

RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME
R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012!
Mises.org

I don't think you're crazy.

I don't think you're crazy for not wanting armed men to abuse and kidnap you for not following their rules. I just wanted to determine if you realized it was permission to enjoy a priviledge you were asking for.

The road to liberty is paved by education.

Has your sentence expired? Were you put on probation?

Has the term of your probation expired? In the statute to which you refer, it says (in part):

Subd. 2. Discharge.
The discharge may be:
(1) by order of the court following stay of sentence or stay of execution of sentence; or
(2) upon expiration of sentence.

You may be best served by contacting a local lawyer who has experience with that particular law and the history of those petitions, if any, that have been granted pursuant to your objective. Good luck to you.

_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

Yes it has expired, and there

Yes it has expired, and there are no known attempts to restore ones guns rights in this area that I can find. Furthermore I do not wish to go through a lawyer, I would very much like to do this personally, I feel like I am "sticking it to the man".

Basically, I do not know how to go about the layout of the forum. An example is proving hard to find..

RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME
R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012!
Mises.org

Find an annotated listing of the statute and see if there are

references to cases (petitions) being brought pursuant to that statute. You say that there are "no known attempts". This is incorrect. I was able to find at least one attempt by someone who was convicted of burglary (different than the offense you mentioned). See: State of Minnesota :vs: William Arthur Anderson Mn SCt, # A05-1167, 2007.

Further, you may want to consider the case of Gordon Liddy. You may recall Mr. Liddy's name from the Nixon/Watergate era. Mr. Liddy is bared from purchasing firearms, due to his felony conviction. He has his wife purchase them. She's not affected by his conviction.

Lastly, since you were not an adult at the time of your difficulty with the Minnesota authorities, you may want to investigate the laws allowing you to have your records expunged under Chapter 609A.

_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

OK, thank you! As for the

OK, thank you! As for the adult thing, I was an adult at the time (19) but was under the legal drinking age (thus they were able to give me a DWI for .05(usually .08) for sleeping in my car.

RON PAUL PHONE FROM HOME
R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution 2012!
Mises.org

If you were sleeping in your car, then wouldn't it seem to

strain the limits of statutory construction to charge you with Driving While Intoxicated? You weren't driving. You at least had the good sense to pull over and sleep it off, without endangering anyone. One other thing did occur to me. You might want to consult some of 2nd amendment/concealed carry forums. There are a number of attorneys (not enough of them) who carry and are pretty fair 2nd amendment advocates. You might find some reasonably priced help there.

_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."