If you don't like it you're free to leave. But not really.
Submitted by none on Wed, 03/17/2010 - 19:38
Here's a story about a man arrested for leaving the country without his master's permission. Do feel free to tell me how I'm free to leave again if you'd like.
Local Man Jailed For Crossing Street
http://www.wptz.com/news/22826310/detail.html
from the article
"I walked over to Canada on a Saturday night around quarter to nine to get a pizza," Buzz Roy explained. Roy lives and works in Derby Line. He walked down Church Street to the nearest pizza shop, which happens to be in Canada, and said that to his surprise he was stopped by state police and told that crossing on Church Street is illegal."
He was no doubt intending to
He was no doubt intending to smuggle agricultural products (cheese) and, heaven forbid, even alcohol, into the country in his belly on the way back. Don't you guys realize government needs to protect you against people like that?
You make a good point....it
You make a good point....it is near impossible to move out of the country due to strict immigration laws everywhere....this is why I am for open borders....
it can't be illegal to leave
it can't be illegal to leave the us, i wonder if his crime was more related to re-entering without following some protocol. cop probably had an arrest quota to fill.
super troopers!
Oh, but it can be. And it is.
The truth is right in front of everyone.
i can see them rounding up
i can see them rounding up all the boy scouts who help old ladies cross the street.
interesting that it was a vermont state trooper who made the arrest.
was this man conducting international commerce? i wonder if he broke some stupid rule because he was conducting business across the border...
what a joke
Fallacy of composition.
Fallacy of composition. Interesting story, though.
Ventura 2012
Back to lie another day, huh?
Where's the fallacy in the story I posted? And shall I start posting up the statutes and regulations where the government declares how much it'll cost someone to leave the USA? I posted this story for illustrative purposes. After all, if you're not even free to walk across the street to buy a pizza when the other side of the street crosses that imaginary line known as 'the border' how free would you be to leave permanantly?
The short and accurate answer is that no one is free to do anything, leaving included.
Its a fallacy to deduce from
Its a fallacy to deduce from this article that we are not free to leave the country. Its interesting because I'm sure that the totalitarians would like nothing better than to fence people in.
Ventura 2012
OK. I'll play
I've posted an article which clearly illustrates how crossing the border 'illegally' are kidnapped and have money extorted from them for doing so, supporting my claim.
Post a verifiable example of how people are free to leave the country without first obtaining government's permission to substantiate your claim.
Oh, so now its "first
Oh, so now its "first obtaining government permission," eh? Of course you need a visa/passport. That is not just our government saying so, but other governments.
Ventura 2012
So, where's that or those articles that support your position?
Surely you must be able to come up with at least one concrete verifiable example of your position, that anyone is free to leave at any time, right?
I mean, I have left the
I mean, I have left the country 6 or 7 times at my own discretion...you have said so many incredible things during this discussion that I thought I would let your arguments stand on their own "merits".
Ventura 2012
Were you required to stop?
At that imaginary line called 'the border'? Was it by people in the employ of the US Federal govt? What about if travelling by aircraft? If it was commercial, were you required to sumbit to whatever demands the TSA agents had for you before you could leave?
See, I have proof that people can't leave freely without obtaining & paying for permission. You don't. All you have is the argument 'I comply with all the demands, so that means I'm free'. Nice try though.
Where's those articles in support of your position that anyone is free to leave at any time? Where's the proof of your claim? You ain't got none.
we've been over this already.
we've been over this already. I never said you could leave the country without a visa/passport...you are arguing with your trollish self. You make an outlandish claim, then attach some qualifier ex-post that totally changes the argument and softens your claim to try to trap me into saying something I didn't say. You are a troll. Get a life.
Ventura 2012
So you admit that no one is free to leave then?
What was the point of your first response to my post if you agree with me that no one is free to leave?
You really make no sense sometimes.
Read it again and again until
Read it again and again until you get it.
Ventura 2012
You think that needing to get
You think that needing to get a visa/passport(a requirement to enter a foreign country) means we are not free to leave. We'll have to agree to disagree, then. No need to waste time, there are other important issues like the Iraq war, the FED's push for no reserve requirements, and electing liberty candidates to attend to.
Ventura 2012
Here's another example of how no one is free to leave
This guy wasn't even a subject of the US Federal empire. Apparently he wasn't free to leave either.
http://dailypaul.com/node/129449
You need reading comprehension lessons
The man in the article was ordered not to cross the imaginary line by an armed agent of the state government. When he did so anyway, he was subsequently kidnapped by the armed agent of the state government, and held for ransom by other armed agents of the federal government.
What part of him not being free to leave don't you understand?
You see, the problem with your position is that unlike mine, it isn't based in reality. Which is why you have such a difficult time doing anything other than actually answering questions directly or showing proof of your claims.
Keep trying though.
Making...
the column skinnier
.
"Wobbles but doesn't fall down" - weebles
You have a hard time staying on topic
Allow me to help. In the article, it was a representative of the government, a VT State Trooper, who denied the man the right to travel freely. It was more agents of the government who held him against his will and extorted money from him before they would allow him to go free. In what way were any representatives of the government of any other country or territory (Lets call them what they are going forward, GANGS, shall we?) involved?
in what way are questionable
in what way are questionable actions in a border town representative of the nation as a whole?
Ventura 2012
I enjoy helping, honestly I do!
The representatives you speak of were not representatives or employees of the town. They were employees and enforcers for the corporations known as The State of Vermont, Inc. and The United States of America, Inc. These enforcers were 'just doing their jobs' and 'only enforcing the law', actions which they certainly took on behalf of their employer.
Interesting wikifacts about this town
In some places, the international border runs through individual homes, so that meals prepared in one country are eaten in the other. An entire tool-and-die factory, once operated by the Butterfield division of Litton Industries, is also divided in two by the border.[6] This factory closed in 1982 after a lengthy strike by Canadian workers.[7]
There are unusual ramifications living directly on the border of another country. For example, the Border Patrol has expressed a desire to close off streets which have historically run together with those of Stanstead. They are concerned about illegal immigration. In 2007, the village jointly met with the Mayor and Council of Stanstead in joint session in Quebec, to be addressed by the authorities. That is, the village trustee meeting was held in a foreign country, following Vermont procedural rules.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
Fact. No one is 'free' to do anything, leaving included
Shall I post the link to the article that outlines how a town in OK decided to tax people for their own well water? Or how about any one of a number of articles or statutes 'governing' food? Or housing?
See, the government has declared itself your master. Disobey, and you'll be punished. Depending upon the geographic coordinates of your residence/property, you may not drink the water that came out of the well on your own property without paying for permission to do so. You may not grow or raise your own food without paying for permisssion to do so, and that's only IF it's allowed. Housing laws are equally ludicrous (the government gets to declare what is or isn't suitable for you in most places, you may not decide for yourself). And finally...if you decide enough is enough and wish to leave...you can't do that without master's permission.
Would all these facts ring more true to you if they were on wikipedia as well?
people skills...
get some.
+1
@none: the government is against you. We're not.
Glad to hear that!
It's nice to know that you wouldn't either make any extortion demands of me directly or ask anyone to do that on your behalf.
As for my attitude...I'm done being patient with people who wish to steal my property and control me. If that comes across as crass, well, too bad. I have no tolerance for anyone who believes that they somehow have some 'right' to take from me what they want. Tolerance of people like that is why things are the way they are today.
I know you like Hans Herman Hoppe.
Doesn't he talk about tax feeders versus tax payers?
I'm guessing that the Daily Paul consists overwhelmingly of net taxpayers.
Even those who do claim benefits or entitlements probably see themselves as "getting their taxes back".
Think about Dr Paul's voting record. Its "no" on practically everything isn't it?
That's why we like him. We want to repeal legislation and abolish government agencies - not add new laws and create new coercive bodies.
I think sometimes you imagine that people are cheerleading for the state, when in actuality they are just wondering:
"How the hell do I personally assist the cause of liberty without making myself a martyr at the hands of the authorities?"
Hi none. Have you checked out Strike the Root?
If not, I think you'll like it:
www.strike-the-root.com/82/merrick/merrick1.html
They also have a hundred fantastic links.
:)