Could Ron Paul Go Third Party?
Despite the fact that Ron is doing well among Republicans, he continues to do even better among non-Republicans. Ultimately, he may need to go for the whole enchilada. In an interview with the Iowa Independent he gives a hint of what it would take:
Iowa Independent: Should you not win your party’s nomination, hypothetically speaking of course, would you consider running on the Libertarian ticket or as an independent?
Paul: I’m about 99.9 percent certain that the answer is no. If the movement and my support continues to steadily grow, and people are willing to stand out in the rain and campaign for me, I would have to keep moving on. I owe a great deal to these folks and they believe in the message, and I hope I succeed in being their messenger. (emphasis added)
I learned something
That it is good to discuss all the options for Dr. Paul.
Our founding fathers had heated discussions to make the best decisions and it is healthy for us as well. I learned that my government doesn't give a damn about anyone. That this is not a two party system but only posing as a two party system. After the elections I will only vote for a third party candidate. I will never be so naive again and forget about main stream news for information.
Ron Paul all the way!
Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.
i think
i think Ron Paul should use the republican party for all the exposure he can get from the debates.if after the primaries he doesnt get the nomination, everyone (i mean frickin everyone!) write to ron paul and tell him to go independent and the will will stay with him to the end and throw every damned penny you can at the campaign. look, lots of people from both parties dont like the choices they have for president, if ron paul loses the nomination and goes indy he may get an explosion of support from both parties and the independent parties because he will be pretty well known by then. but for now the main focus is no matter what, we have to work our asses off to get him known to this country. i live in iowa and let me tell you that alot of people here are ignorant corn fed cows out here so believe me, i have a ton of work to do to wake these people up. every day after work i will pull over on a busy road. take out my 8'x4' sign and get his name out there. and on the weekends i will join my fellow meetups to visit towns and hang dvds and literature on doorknobs house to house.if we dont work to get his name out there we are f&^%$ed !
Can Ron Paul save the GOP?
A better question might be should he even try? The neo-con fascists have taken over the Republican Party and they will not accept Ron Paul ever! They will lie, cheat and steal to keep him down. The GOP has fought against Dr. Paul in his own congressional elections. They have refused to support him even against his Democrat opponents. He barely got the GOP nomination in his own district where he is known and loved. For those of you that say we shouldn’t be thinking about a third party, I say to you “how many times does the GOP and their media hacks have to “slap you in the face†before you realize this is not going to change?â€
The National GOP would rather see a Democrat neo-liberal elitist as President before Ron Paul. They just have too much to lose if he were elected and little to lose if one of their neo-liberal Democrat brethren wins. The 2004 elections should be proof enough of that.
Any hope for an “old-time†conservative Republican Party rebirth is, dare I say it, aborted! It is DEAD! We should have the common sense, courage and decency to bury it and move on. The NEW Republican Party has taken over. It and its propaganda-mill media counterparts will not give an “outsider†like Dr. Paul more than token positive exposure EVER!
The neo-liberal socialists have taken over the Democratic Party and they will not support Ron Paul either. Government has had too long to “dumb down†and “buy with socialist handouts†the minds and souls of too many Democrat followers. Will this statement alienate them? The idea of reduced welfare and entitlements will do that without my help.
The anti-war Democrats will not support a Republican again and Ron Paul is “guilty by association†to all that the GOP power and greed has brought upon us. I wouldn’t trust another Republican either. Granger said it best “when I tell them he is a Republican, they run the other wayâ€. Can we blame them? The fundamentalist Christian right won’t support the anti-war movement. They are too secure in the rightness of their “Holy War†against Islam.
So who does that leave to support Dr. Paul? Those of us who are somewhat on either side of the conservative liberal bias who still have some consciousness about what’s right and wrong with our government and society; those other outsiders the Constitutional and Libertarian Parties, and independents, that’s who. If that’s true then what good does either the Republic or the Democrat Parties do for us? None!! Why should we lend our bodies and souls to support either corrupt group?
I know that being in the Republican Party got Dr. Paul the exposure he needed to be where he is now. But it was not the GOP that supported him and it is not the GOP that we support. It is Dr. Paul and his message of freedom.
I think there are two potential debates coming up in September. If I’m not wrong one is the YouTube debate and the other is a supposed 4 man debate with Dr. Paul included. Don’t be surprised if the GOP doesn’t un-invite Dr. Paul for the likes of Huckabee. After all he scored well ahead of Dr. Paul in the Ames straw poll, didn’t he?
Whether he makes the debate or not it would be a great time to tell the GOP to kiss our ass. We do not need your false pretenses of fairness where no fairness really exists. We are taking our good Doctor back home to the Libertarian Party where he is at least respected and by some even loved.
You really want to make a statement to the people of this country; how about that? How much “air time†do you think that would get him? But more importantly how loud a cheer would there be from the anti-republican anti-war groups? You want to get the attention of unquestionably the strongest potential support group we could have with us? It could be loud enough to be heard around the world! But that’s just my opinion.
In any case we need enough time for us to change our party affiliation in those states that require it. Even if some of us don’t have time to reregister, there are already enough LP Party Ron Paul supporters who would vote for him anyway. Just look at the LP Meetup.
http://libertarian.meetup.com/about/
When I first looked at the site, I though I had the wrong link. Of the nearly 9,000 people and 132 groups most of them are Ron Paul’s groups.
Why do 3rd parties have little if no impact on the political scene? People, People, People!
What would happen if all of us dumped the GOP and went with the LP? Just think what impact that statement would make.
The LP Party is the third largest political party in the country and is already “legal†in all 50 states. In 1988 Ron Paul was on the ballot in 46 states. Do you really think he has a chance to be on the ballot in that many states as a GOP candidate? I don’t think so. We can’t elect him President if he is not on the ballot! Why wasn’t he elected in 1988? Simple, we didn’t vote for him and shame on us!!
This is a unique time in our history. With the internet and a dedicated support base, the media and both major parties lose their importance and control. If I thought that Dr. Paul would ever get a fair shake from the powers that be I wouldn’t even suggest such a thing. But you and I both know that will never happen. Why not, because I don’t think the true ideal of freedom and liberty is well understood or accepted enough to carry the day. Even in the LP Party only about 33% are true Libertarians. Are you? If you think you are for true freedom and liberty, take this test to see.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html
Now look at the LP Party platform.
http://www.lp.org/issues/platform_all.shtml
No political party in this country believes in true freedom and liberty more than the LP Party. The Democrats, Republicans, and yes even the Constitutional Parties do not believe completely. Freedom and liberty are mostly qualified by the left’s nanny state and the right’s big brother state attitudes.
No one who supports the Clinton/Obama Democrat mind-set will ever vote for Ron Paul. No one who supports the Giuliani/Romney Republican mind-set will ever vote for Ron Paul. So I say screw the Democratic Party and screw the Republican Party and let’s take our country back.
If this is truly a revolution for our “second independenceâ€, then let’s not wimp out by kissing the asses of an enemy, who has proven time and time again, that they mean to do us harm. Defend ourselves and dump the GOP to really make a stand for freedom and liberty.
If Dr. Paul or his family or his campaign staff see these posts, you should know (I think) that 99% of those who support you now, would support you as an LP candidate as well. I know that at one time you supported the LP Party and their platform. You simply did not have the support of the people or the finances that you have today. Turn the tables on the Republican Democrat demigods and make a statement to the world that they are finished in this country.
I will vote for you no matter what you decide. But I encourage you and hopefully many here will as well to think “outside the boxâ€. If you think that any of this makes sense to you, then I think you would generate more new support by dumping the GOP than in just about anything you could say or do. Strike another blow for freedom!
Your loyal compatriot,
Anti-Stupid
RP's opportunity
RP has a chance because 70% of the people want the war to end while all the establishment (CFR, NWO) politicians want to continue the war indefinitely.
RP needs a strategy to reach these people. The IRS, Federal Reserve, national debt, gold standard and paper money are all side issues. Talking about the side issues does not develop a winning coalition as shown by the fact that only 1300 or so Iowa voters went RP. A focused anti-war campaign would have brought more votes. RP needs to sell Republican voters the idea that a pro-war Republican will lose in 2008, which seems easy enough, and convince enough democrats to cross-over in primaries. The democrats need to be sold the idea that establishment democrats will sell them out on the war, which seems easy enough given that Nancy Pelosi already has, and that Hillary voted for the war.
I didn't hear RP hitting any of those notes in Iowa. I see the RP campaign as uncertain and unfocused, without a winning plan. RP needs to get after this strategy right away. He should make some anti-war appearances with Cindy Sheehan ASAP.
I've been of libertarian mindset for over 40 years now. As a party, they can't organize anything. They should have changed their name to the Liberal party 50 years ago. Most people don't know what a libertarian is. A third party run is out of the question.
Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas
"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."
Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas
"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."
are you UTTERLY insane?
"He should make some anti-war appearances with Cindy Sheehan ASAP."
You may as well tell him to campaign with Ted Kennedy.
Now, personally I'm not hostile to CS, but you had better believe most Republicans are. This is the REPUBLICAN primary. Don't add ADDITIONAL barriers to winning the REPUBLICAN primary.
Let's stick to the message. A far smarter approach would be to talk a lot more about the Constitution's provision of letters of marque and reprisal. This allows us to campaign on a PRO-"war on terror" position -- but simultaneously a "bring the troops home" position! Talk about the best of both worlds!! On top of that, go back and read RP's speech on September 17 2001. He brought this up back then, along with warning explicitly of the dangers of surrendering our liberties for security. He's been totally consistent the entire time, and both left AND right will see that when we get them to look. At this time, it's most important that we get the RIGHT to look; putting CS in their field of view would guarantee that most would never give him another glance.
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
I agree
I essentially agree with this comment. In fact I would go so far as to say that Dr. Paul might even consider toning down the anti-war rhetoric. I believe the MSM and the party heads will use it to marginalize his candidacy (among Republicans) by associating him with the anti-war movement of the far left. Besides, I don't believe this candidacy is about ending the war in Iraq...among other things, the foreign policy aspect of the campaign is about ending our long-standing policy of intervention and meddling in the affairs of others-the Iraq war being only the latest chapter in that sad tale. He might even say that some of those on the left have come to the right conclusion (about the war) for the wrong reasons. IMO some are opposed to the war b/c they are either pacifists or for political reasons (i.e. they hate GWB). I don't remember much protesting in the streets when we were bombing the crap out of the Serbs.
My understanding of the conservative/libertarian position is that the Iraq war and others like it (i.e. Kosovo, Somalia, Bosnia, and soon Iran) is a symptom of the larger problem of big government run amuck. Dr. Paul has referred to this many times by mentioning the statement "War is the health of the state." This is the problem...it is what governments do. Many on the left believe that we can have big government that is benign and nurturing. Many on the right believe that a little tyranny is not such a bad thing as long as it is pointed in the right direction. Both of these points of view are based on the underlying assumption that the leviathon can be controlled to suit our purposes. The founders understood the true nature of government-that it is a "dangerous servant and a fearful master."
In this light, his (our) principled objection to this war makes perfect sense. I would love to see Dr. Paul reiterate this clearly every chance he gets, to reinforce the sentiment that we are not "weak on defense"-only opposed to intervention and war-mongering and there are incidents and occurrences that are sufficient to warrant mobilization of society to fight a war, but Iraq doesn't rise to this (I know he's said all of this many times, but it needs to be said more often and very clearly for it to sink in with some, IMO). Also, it should be brought up as a proactive position statement rather than as a clarification or response (which gives the impression of being on the defensive).
stupid, and more stupid
If this were my site, I would ban you. I couldn't even force myself to read past the first few paragraphs of your incredibly wrong-headed surrender plan.
The Republicans I talk to are increasingly warming up to Ron Paul. When the grassroots catch on, the Establishment will lose. Massive numbers of people who know what they want can't lose politically to a few corrupt rich people. We're doing quite well and our numbers are growing. As a Republican myself, I'm seeing this from within the GOP ranks, not as a hostile invader. The crumbling remains of the corrupt GWB machine are being swept aside by the RPR. It's nowhere near a "done deal", but we already own some counties, and we're moving into more. Once you go Ron, you never go back; this is a 1-way battle.
Stop trying to hijack the campaign and drive it into the mud of all the previous losses outside the 2 main parties. If you want that, there are already 3rd-party candidates floating around who would welcome your support. This is a battle for the REPUBLICAN PARTY primary; help or GTFO.
Thanks.
FWIW, and just for the record, if we do lose the primary, we'll deal with that at that point, and I'm not going to "just go home" in any case. But this is the time to WIN the primary, not give up.
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
Big Brother is watching
Do you really think that if he doesn’t win the primaries that a write-in vote is going to win the day? If you were open minded enough to read my post you would have seen my commitment to Dr. Paul. I offered my opinion of on alternative plan. There is nothing defeatist in my post. Take the initiative and turn the tables on the GOP, but you seem to think that Dr. Paul can win the GOP nomination not only without the support of the party but with them actually working against him. It's ok if that's your opinion. But as I said, in my opinion, why put up with their crap if we don't have to.
What was it about the first paragraph where I reported what I know to be the truth as so offensive? I didn’t say anything against Dr. Paul just how he has been treated and that we should think of alternatives. I thought this was about getting Dr. Paul to the White House not just winning a few battles.
A possible answer to getting him on the ballots in almost every state and gaining the support of the anti-war anti-republican groups is within our grasp, if we just consider it. But of course, you’d rather call me stupid and ban me from speaking. What you’re “big brother†now and I’m not allowed to speak my mind?
Telling me I should go support someone else is just plain arrogant. You’re trying to tell me that a woman, a black man, a Hispanic, a Mormon, and even a cross-dresser could possibly win the election but not a Libertarian. That’s just stupid and you know I’m
Anti-Stupid
it's not my site, so you're still here
The more fractured we are, the less effective. The more talk there is about ditching the GOP, the more fractured are our efforts to win this primary and the more ammunition is provided to those who would love nothing more than to ruin this campaign.
Yes, I not only think we CAN win this primary, I am convinced we WILL win it, as long as we stick to the message Ron Paul is carrying. Obviously you're convinced otherwise, which means by definition that you aren't actually in this campaign. You're in a different one which just happens to overlap with this one for the time being, and you're trying to get people to leave this campaign and join yours, with your expectation of defeat in the GOP primary.
I can't think of anything worse -- or more stupid -- than that. The word "Losertarian" is insisting on coming to mind, and I usually roll my eyes when my GOP friends trot that one out. The word "defeatist" is also waving at me, and even the word "subversive" seems to be glancing my way as well.
I suppose to you that your belief that you're right justifies trying to spread defeatism, as a way of getting an early start on "what's next". To me my belief that you're wrong justifies tossing you overboard if you insist on talking up defeat. I guess we'll have to just disagree, barring the DP PTB stepping in, but I would encourage you if you're serious about this whole thing to ignore me if you must and look to Ron for some guidance as to where our energies should go. If you won't do that, then frankly I do think you're simply poison.
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
It’s not your site I won’t be censured by you.
How dare you! I’ve donated money every month for months. I’ve been to Meetup events. I’ve bought hundreds of dollars in Ron Paul supplies. I have signs in my yard and bumper stickers on my car. I sent money to support the Iowa program. I’ve told everyone I know about Ron Paul. And you don’t think I should be here!
My statements were within the context of if things haven’t change by the next two debates and the GOP (not rank and file republicans) and the media don’t improve their attitudes toward Dr. Paul, we should consider the alternative of dumping the GOP. If you wish to stay beyond that, you are being naive. I am not convinced that Dr. Paul can’t win the primaries but at the same time I don’t want to disregard our other options. How long to you think we should wait, until it’s too late to do anything about it?
You demonstrate the very closed-minded attitude of all those who can’t see past a label and won’t support Dr. Paul for the very fact that he is running on the GOP ticket. The Libertarian party has been as strong a supporter of Dr. Paul as any group out there. In 1988 the LP Party got him on 46 state ballots. I challenge the GOP to match that. When you talk about “losertarianâ€, you just show your ignorance of true freedom and liberty and don’t forget Dr. Paul was a member of the LP Party as well. Is Dr. Paul a losertarian too? Don’t you think that it is just possible that this could be the election to break the two party hold on our country? No of course not, you too busy trying to expel me for my difference of opinion.
Anti-Stupid
the problem with "how long until we give up" thinking
It's really simple: if you think we can't win, then you're not going to be watching for our chances when they come, and you're going to infect other people with your defeatism. It's fear instead of hope. This campaign is about hope, NOT fear.
I'm glad you've done all that for Ron; thanks. But, as I said, if you're planning to lose the primary, then you're in a DIFFERENT campaign than I am, and we can't work together.
You entirely missed my point about "Losertarian". My GOP friends would say it, not me, and I would roll my eyes, or bite my tongue, thinking they were being rather snake-ish (if that makes sense) to call people that, when I considered Libertarians to mostly just be mavericks with strong principles. But now, when this "we can't win in the GOP" stuff is starting to crop up in this campaign (and not just from you), I'm beginning to understand -- perhaps -- where such an attitude toward some Libertarians could come from. Of course I don't consider Ron a "Losertarian" -- but I might start thinking that about certain people, if certain people insist on acting like it even when their inappropriate behavior is brought to their attention.
If you're undermining the campaign with defeatist talk, you bet I would toss you no matter how much you'd spent or done for the campaign. Ron forgoes big corporate money, and (often) wins anyway. Money matters, but it isn't everything, and neither are you (or me, or anyone else but Ron, and him only because he's the candidate). That much should be readily apparent by now to everyone in this campaign.
If you're ready to win, then let's stop arguing and get back to work. If not, perhaps we'll just have to avoid one another as much as possible, because I view the attitude you've been displaying as poison, regardless of how well-intentioned you may be.
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
LP is not an option
Hello ProspectorSam, I owe you an apology about the losertarian comments. I re-read you post and see that you were simply reporting your experience with others. I’m sorry I misread you.
Just for the record, I first joined the “Young Republicans†in 1968. For almost 40 years I’ve watched the GOP being taken over by the neo-cons and yes even the fundamental Christian right. After Reagan, I pretty much quit voting as it was getting harder to find anyone to vote for until Ron Paul made the national scene.
I have never been a Libertarian and knew very little about them. I realize now that it is probably the party where I would be most comfortable. Unfortunately for me Ron Paul is a Republican and unless at some point that changes, I will have to remain a Republican for now.
If my commitment to Dr. Paul, without supporting the GOP is not good enough for you, again, I’m sorry. But in all honesty it is not your place to censor or belittle me with your talk of defeatism. That is just your interpretation of my position. Discussion and preparation for alternative outcomes is not defeatism it is just the opposite. It is not “how long before we give up?†(you putting words into my mouth again) it is “how long before we strike back?†hardly a defeatist attitude.
It was naïve of me to think that 99% of his followers would still support him on a Libertarian platform. The “religion and abortion neutral†positions of the LP platform could cost him more than he would gain. Moderate Republican Christians might switch but there is a good possibility they would not. Dr. Paul’s Christian base is a major part of why he is doing so well and whether or not I agree, you are probably right about dropping the third party LP option as this may be no option at all.
As you said, we will just have to disagree and move on. If Dr. Paul’s Christian base is to be the major force to get him to the White House, then I will be very grateful. I will not change my basic philosophy but I will be grateful none the less.
Anti-Stupid
Healthy Debate is Good
Sorry, ProspectorSam, but I think you are off base here when you say Anti-Stupid's healthy debate is "poison, regardless of how well-intentioned you may be". Clearly you and he both support Ron Paul (as do I) and I think it is a good thing to be tolerant of opposing opinions as we discuss options we can support the campaign as it moves forward.
debate what, though? and when?
I'm all for free speech, round robin discussion, etc.; my point is that to focus on LOSING is poison. Politics is perception. If the perception is "we are going to win" then we will, because we will make it happen. If the perception is "we are going to lose" then we will, because we will make that happen. If someone is arguing the case why we will lose, then they are working AGAINST the campaign, because they are changing the perception from winning to losing.
This isn't Iraq, where we have death and destruction to cope with. This is a simple (or not so simple, LOL) election. We ask who should be president and count the responses. That's all. Our entire battle is within the minds of our fellow Americans (and, in the Internet age, others, to a lesser degree). The task at hand is the Republican party primary, which means we are aiming at Republican minds in most states and all minds in the rest. We need to be focused on WINNING that mind-battle.
The strength of this campaign is in its decentralized nature. We are legion, and we are extremely light on our feet. Nobody can deal with us because there is no "us" in any monolithic way. This campaign more than any other in history is capable of regrouping, retooling, and taking off in a new direction VERY quickly. Even if anti-stupid is right (which I again say he's not), we DO NOT need to spend our time NOW planning for and expecting failure. At most, we could take just a moment to stipulate that it's wise to think ahead and make our efforts "dual-use" so that *if* we don't win the primary it will be easy to build on them in another way. Anything beyond that is defeatism.
Eyes on the prize. Full speed ahead.
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
Eyes on the prize
Just when you think you've won the rat race along comes the fat cat, eh? If Freedom is Popular, where does censorship fit in?
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
I will "Write In"
I will "Write In" Congressman Paul on November 4, 2008 if he is not the GOP nominee.
3rd Party will go no where.
Write In Rules differ from state to state
You can write in any name you want, the question is will your vote be counted.
Most people are under the impression that you can merely write in a name...it's not that simple.
Write in candidates have to comply with that states rules and regulations before they are eligible to receive votes.
We the People and our voting system in this country is under the control of two parties, they are not about to make it easy for anyone other than those who march in lockstep to even get a chance to run outside their parties.
They make the rules and unless people start waking up to that fact and focus their attention on working to abolish the grip these two parties have on the democratic voting process in this Republic...nothing is ever going to chance.
Note: People may want to read up on the write in requirements in their state before they really throw away their vote.
You beat me to it.
I'll do the same and won't have to take a shower afterward.
Register as a Republican
Ron Paul is running as a Republican and if you support his views and philosophy on how to run the US, then everyone out of RESPECT and HONOR to Dr. Paul must register to the REPUBLICAN PARTY, period the End!
I disagree
I live in an 80% Democrat to 20% Republican area. There is NO WAY IN HELL (so I've been told repeatedly, and again this morning) they will register Republican. Meanwhile, the Democrat congress shows 12% approval rating, so I know they do not like what their own party is doing, but they BLAME the GOP, and when I mention Ron Paul is GOP they run away (at best) and want to smack me in majority. Even the Republicans here want Fred Thompson and call Ron Paul a leftist wacko destroying their party and wanting to sell out to Muslims.
The only way I can fight Fred Thompson is by calling on the editorials for writing about a NON candidate.
I have much more success convincing liberals to register "Decline to state party" (In California) and getting them to vote for Ron Paul. This is not impossible to do, and why I believe those who demand, as you are, that's it's GOP or Bust, aren't so much for Ron Paul, but for a party that has been destroyed by the neocons and occupied by the lying neocons, who I don't trust, and therefore, like the majority in my area, THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL I AM GOING TO SUPPORT OR REGISTER GOP!!!!
I can and WILL support and vote for Ron Paul, when I reguest a GOP primary ticket. It's LEGAL, it's FREE, and it's FREEDOM, which let me remind you, is popular. I'm for RON PAUL, NOT the GOP. PERIOD.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
No to Third Party
(With my most sincere and heartfelt apologies to my Libertarian and other principled friends.)
I like the Libertarian party with their logical and thoughtful stances on property rights and smaller government and have often thought of changing my party affiliation to Libertarian. I like the Constitutionalists with their strong feelings about the strength and nobility of the Constitution. Most parties have at least one good idea that I can get behind. Our problem is not our lack of ideas or parties to promote them.
We in America have a big problem, and that problem is the two-party system itself. This political monopoly stifles competition of any kind. Since politics deals with ideas, that means that new ideas (or old discarded ideas taken out and dusted off) are going to be mercilessly suppressed by the parties in power and their political organs, such as the MSM. This system has a tremendous amount of power and wealth behind it. It cannot be defeated in a head-on battle - it would, metaphorically speaking, be rocks and spears against tanks and cannon and machine guns. Libertarians and Constitutionalists have the moral high-ground. They have the intellectual high-ground. Their adherents are people of great passion. They continue their fight because they know that the principles they believe in are right - but, in their head to head fight for the presidency, they lose every time.
There is only one way to effectively fight a behemoth of this size and power. Every empire, every power structure that has existed was not defeated until they were weakened from within. We, who fight for correct principles, must come to grips with this idea. We become part of the monster, not to be corrupted by it, not to strengthen it, but to weaken it. As part of that which seeks to gain power over us, we become agents of change - change the direction of the beast, change its very nature, ultimately to eliminate it and replace it with a system that gives every citizen a voice.
Dr. Paul is a wise man. He understands these things. That is why he became a Republican - so that he could effect change from the only place where it was possible - from within the beast. He is not corrupted by his association with the GOP. His presence inspires a growing number of his fellow politicians to stand for correct principles. We must also be wise. We must continue to work within the system where change is possible. We must teach and persuade and inspire those around us. We must put away our ignorance and study principles that grant freedom and prosperity to every individual. We must do a very hard thing - we must intellectually defeat oppression, corporatism and socialism on its own soil with its own weapons. Only then will third parties become a viable option or, better yet, do away with parties altogether and replace it with a system where leaders are raised directly from the roots.
I think if Repubs continue to go liberal
a third party will arise.
I think that third party should be clear in name, with the ideas of this movement.
I would call that party, the Constitutional Conservative Party.
If Ron Paul doesn't win Repub nomination I probably will leave the party.
Davy C Rockett
http://liberty-central.blogspot.com
http://screamfreedom.blogspot.com
http://cystic-fibrosis-symptom.com
http://medical-definitions.com
Third party reply
It wouldn't make sense to jump ship right now...how much coverage would Dr. Paul be getting as an independent???NONE...which is even less that he is getting now.
I hope his plan is to continue running as a republican until next spring, then he should switch and run under the Constitution Party. I feel that's where he belongs anyway. If he started the race under the Constitution party, he would only be a blip on the radar right now.
I'm sure that ron Paul's campaign is aware of this. He has several more debates he will be included in as a Republican.
GO RON PAUL 2008
unbelievable.
"I hope his plan is to continue running as a republican until next spring, then he should switch and run under the Constitution Party."
How about you stop planning to LOSE and get busy WINNING? Would that be OK with you?
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
Man, come on...Fred Thompson
Man, come on...Fred Thompson will probably get the nom. because everyone "knows" him from tv and movie "fame". He is the republican party's trump card. Sad as it may be...yippeee here comes Fred Thompson to save the day!! Pu-hlease...NWO, NAU, NAFTA...we all know Freddy boy will be more of the same as well if he gets elected.
All I am saying is that if Dr. Paul does not get the nomination, in a country that usually feels they have to vote for the lesser of two evils...Ron Paul has a decent chance as an independent or Constitutional party. We all want him to get the nomination, but sorry, I don't believe the fix is quite in yet, but after the Diebold voting machine debaucle in Iowa, it does make you question everything!!!
So take a minute to calm down while I go paint some more Ron Paul Revolution Signs ok????
You are all Missing the Point
There is little difference between Dems and Republicans, as both parties effectively serve the nation's industrial-financial ruling structure. Secondly, running as an Independent would guarantee a loss for Dr. Paul because federal elections have been rigged by those parties to favor their interests. Therefore, a run as an Independent would guarantee more of the same lousy, corrupt government. No, the only way out is for Dr. Paul to secure the GOP nomination and win the general election.
Yours very Truly,
Schvenzlerman
answer this
Ron Paul does NOT win the GOP nomination. Then what?
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
I will vote for Ron paul anyway I can
If he doesn't win nomination, we flood his headquarters asking him to run as an independent, in my opinion.
If Republican party doesn't nominate Paul, I will leave the Repub Party for sure, never to return, or won't return until they respect the Constitution again.
Davy C Rockett
http://liberty-central.blogspot.com
http://screamfreedom.blogspot.com
http://cystic-fibrosis-symptom.com
http://medical-definitions.com
what's the point of asking that question NOW?
Why are you navel-gazing? If you need something to do, GET OFF YOUR ASS and ask your meetup organizer for a list of the current most urgent tasks.
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
Then
We didn't work hard enough. But why not think positive, instead? (And that's also why I want Dr. Paul NOT to run for his House seat this time!)
JMR
If he were to go third party...
what would happen to his run for re-election to the House.
If he doesn't get elected president by switching to a third party, what happens to his House seat which he would probably win again as a Republican. But if he switched parties that wouldn't happen would it?
I CANT REFRAIN FROM COMMENTING....
You know (and some may get upset with me but what the heck) I *am* getting pretty fed up AWFULLY FAST over the way Ron Paul is being treated! No joking, no kidding and all seriousness. I know alot of people are saying, dont make waves, dont make the republican party mad, dont ostricize him etc. etc. etc.. My response as a devils advocate is that I dont think there is any WAY SHAPE OR FORM the republican party is ever going to recognize, nominate, or accept Dr. Ron Paul. PERIOD!
I know everyone want to sound nicey nice and dont say, dont say that, etc.. but we *are* being screwed right and left behind our backs. Sorry folks but that *is* the way I see it. Its a free country and free speech. I will continue to support Ron Paul both financially and verbally to everyone I meet, but I do think that if we are EVER TO GET DR. RON PAUL elected, we pretty much have to make the public realize that he is a MAVERICK REPUBLICAN.
If the public perceives Dr. Ron Paul to unfailingly and unflinchingly accept the Republican doctrine, even if he should get the nomination (which I think is a snowballs chance in hell as the republican party will never allow it!)
he will never get elected. ITS FACT FOLKS, the republicans are so down and out right now its pitiful and deservingly so.
Never in the past eight years has there been so much graft, corruption, distortion, government cover-up, etc. I could go on for hours, and thus the republicans have come to a dead-end for this next election.
But if the public can perceive of Dr. Ron Paul as a Maverick Republican THAT IS APPEALING to Democrats, Liberals, Libetarians, etc... they make sit up and take notice and give Ron Paul is due in the media. I personally DO NOT THINK this is going to be acheived by kissing the A$$ of the republican party - feel what you feel, do what you want, I think it is reality.
So speak up - Be vocal - Say I wont stand for it anymore - MAKE A POINT to anyone and everyone you can that there *is* someone who CROSSES PARTY BOUNDARIES and can make a difference. It is the only way!
And I *hope* the republican party has people who are checking out the Ron Paul message boards and reading this message - WE ARE MAD AS HELL AND NOT GOING TO STAND FOR IT ANY LONGER.
Either the republican party starts to embrace Dr. Ron Paul or he is going to FRACTURE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY in such a bad way they will never recover. This is inself HELD OVER THEIR HEADS will make the s-o-b-s sit up and take notice - Can they have their party fractured?? Can they have FLIP-FLOPPING CANDIDATES for president - this is EXACTLY what got the public upset about the past election - The democratic nominee Whats-his-name was perceived as a flip-flopper and dont you think the democratic party is going to use that against any of these candidates!
Hell I WOULD....
Wake up republican party - you are going to loose big and bad if you do not embrace Dr. Ron Paul and continue your current party course!
Enough said...
Me too
I'm pretty fed up with the Republica party too. But what can you do? A third party is easily squashed by the controlling powers. It really stinks. Our politics are controlled by the corporate media darlings and backroom mogals. Did anyone notice all the Mitt exposure prior to, and especially after the poll. You would think he won the presidential election! They will barely even mention Ron Paul. It's shameful.
But Ron Paul stands for truth and integrity, and we've got to push on. The Iowa Poll was disappointing because it gives the media all the credence they want to diminish the stature of Ron Paul, and elevate the likes of Huckabee. Remeber in Iowa, the voters are paid.
alan laney
Libertarians wont have him.
It's against Libertarian party bylaws to support someone from another party. He can not run as Libertarian, forget it, its not possible. Even if they wanted to it wont happen, Libertarians are very strict on their rules and process.
The LP may change the Bylaws
Yes, the LP is strict in following party procedure. But they also recognize this special situation and from the overwhelming support he receives from current party members. They certainly can change their bylaws if this becomes a reason to support Ron Paul. If Ron Paul does get the Republican nomination, I would wager that the LP and the Constitution Party would opennly endorse Ron Paul.
speaking of endorsements...
http://www.realcities.com/mld/realcities/news/politics/qa_fo...
has a spot where people like us can ask Dave Barry questions. It would be nice if we could get Dave to do a "Steve Kubby" and endorse Dr. Paul. The way to do it which will actually-work? Start by doing something pleasant!
Click the link and read at least 10 pages of questions and answers, so you can get an idea of how things work with Dave. Then compose a POLITE, FUNNY question for Dave. The funnier the better, and don't go over the top advocating Dr. Paul (you don't even need to mention him, but I did!). Offering large bribes on behalf of the Paul campaign, while it might work on Dave, probably won't work for the campaign, so please keep that in mind. :)
Dave is a very talented writer, and his endorsement might influence a lot of people.
JMR
Who says he has to have Libetarian Support
Dr. Ron Paul can run as an independent.... it can be done - look at Leiberman...
Lieberman
Lieberman managed to get elected as an independant Senator. Being elected President is a different story all together. Who was the last "independant" President elected? George Washington! Ross Perot came somewhat close but look at the money he had behind him. Ron Paul would be wasting his time running as an independant and he knows it.
STOP talking about 3rd party/Democrat crap
All y'all talking about this right now are DAMAGING the campaign. We are in the REPUBLICAN primary. Get focused on that like a laser and stop running around talking about what-if, Unity 08, 3rd party stuff and Democrat VPs. That is a 100% GUARANTEED way to turn Republican voters AGAINST us. What we need to do is show the Republicans how and why THIS candidate and THIS campaign is the best route FORWARD for THEM. They are lost in a desert they can't quite comprehend. They are having difficulty coming to grips with the amount of deception sold to them by the dazzling array of "conservatives" who have lied to them for so many years (much, much longer than just this administration). Dr. Know has the map and he's trying to talk to them. Help him do that. DO NOT put ideas in their heads that we're hostile to their party, or they'll become hostile to us and they won't listen any more.
Put yourself in their shoes. Imagine how little it would take to give you the impression that Dr. Know is "that peace-hippie-guy who all the liberals love so much" -- especially with Fox and other sources working hard to create that impression. We can overcome that, but not if we play INTO it by disdaining the GOP.
I am a Republican. I know a lot of other Republicans. Please take this warning very seriously.
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What is begun in anger, ends in shame.
I agree stop talking about third party
There is NO better chance that to just win the Republican nomination. Ron Paul can win the nomination, but everyone has to be pushing to get this done. The Iowa straw poll means absolutely nothing - keep the eye on the prize and thats the votes early next year that really count. I have been on campaigns ranging from Reagan's in the 80's to Pat Buchanan's Reform Party try in 2000. This is far far easier than running in a third party or as an independent. Another thing I can tell you is this is the first campaign since Reagan to have so much energy and grassroots support. Believe me when I say this, we have got them scared and all we have to do is chip away at them day by day and we will win this thing. We are quietly getting Republican converts, the more they hear and figure out about Ron Paul the more they like him and will come our way. There is no other Unity Party but the one we have right here. We are all American's and need to make a stand to stop whats happening to our country - thats unity. The whole goal of the enemy is to divide us using issues that we all may not agree with. That is an old political trick and we cannot fall for it. Our main reason for pushing Ron Paul is his integrity and honesty. United We Stand, Divided We Fall
Vote for Honest Ron
The GOP
Even in Texas, Dr. Paul's home state, the GOP consultant is quoted in the Austin Statesman as encouraging Texas Straw Poll voters NOT to vote for a "second-tier" candidate. Now who do you think they might be referring to?
The GOP power elite have been hostile to Dr. Paul in many states....and I do believe you are correct, it is not the Republicans themselves, but the guys who perpetrate the deceptions upon their own party members who work so diligently against Ron Paul.
Here in California, tons of us are changing parties and becoming Republicans in order to vote for him. His appeal out here is across party lines, and that is part of the power and the beauty of the platform and the message....WE THE PEOPLE can be united in our diversity and support and protect the Constitution.
cee cee
Ron Paul and Third Party/Indy Candidacy
He often cites ballot-access issues as the reason why he wouldn't consider this option. If that obstacle was not present and the support was there he might consider the LP, CP, or the Unity '08 nomination if he doesn't win the GOP nomination.
Dr. Paul is right, there's no way ballot access laws will change
We are all Republicans now, and we need to get used to it. We're just the old-fashioned (in terms of values & small government) type of Republicans, and as Dr. Paul's experience proves, we've been becoming a bit of an endangered species. We are working in an electoral system with an artificial duopoly, which some of us experienced firsthand in 1988. Do you think bias like this: http://razmear.us/rp/storm.jpg is blatant??? You ain't seen nothin' yet. Go try to get a Libertarian or Green candidate elected sometime and imagine an entire government-run SYSTEM as well as the usual media bias against you. Our only possibility is the Republican party, and we MUST win the Republican primary. Once we do that, defeating Hillary will be relatively-easy.
JMR
I'm NOT a Republican
I've been registered "Decline to state party" since 1993, when I saw Clinton steal the election. All I have to do is request a GOP ballot. AND I honestly think the RP campaign is shortsiding their own "rEVOLution" by not embracing the "Decline to state Party" option for those who NO WAY IN HELL would join the GOP, and that's allot of folks, who would "Decline" to vote for RP. I worked on Nader's ballot access for three elections (An independent has the RIGHT to be on the ballot). The only party I ever joined was the Libertarian Party and that was in the 70s. The Libertarian nomination is in Nov., before the primary election, so that is NOT an option for RP. I've been watching Unity08 since 04, and was surprized when they stopped talking about ballot access for Independents and moved to support Ron Paul and Kucinich or Gravel (though I think they would do better with Nader because if anyone knows the ballot access laws in all 50 states it is he). RP said in the interview he is 99.9% sure he will NOT run as an independent, and I think he will not, but I'm very curious and wish the question would have been asked, "WHO would RP nominate to replace him on the Independent Unity08 ticket?"
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
in Florida
They call it "No Party Affiliation" (there are still at least 2 "independent" parties in this state) and I just changed from that to Republican. I assure you, it's easy if you try, and talking to elections bureaucrats nicely can be quite educational. I've tried to help Ron Paul as a Libertarian in '88, and I'm not going to try that again. We need to go all-out to win this primary. Beating Hillary, by comparison, will be much easier anyway.
Also, the ultimate expert on Ballot Access issues is libertarian Richard Winger, not Nader. The Nader-types come to Richard for expertise on ballot law. So does 'most everyone else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_Access_News has more.
JMR
Open and Closed Primaries
Granger, you must remember something, not all states are like California. Sure there are many that hold open primaries, but over 50% of the states are CLOSED primaries. In my state of Connecticut, I must declare a party in order to vote in the primaries. Therefore, if the RP campaign does what you are suggesting, he would lose the primaries in over 50% of the union. Do you really want that?
Why don't I move? I love my house and where I live, thank you! I grew up and lived in California for 30 of my 45 years on this earth. I have chosen where I want to spend the next 30.
I am not saying that declining to state a party is a bad thing. Heck, I'd prefer it. However, again, over 50% of the states do not allow participation in the primaries if its citizens do not state a party affiliation.
Please do not hold Ron Paul, his campaign, or supporters to the fire because he chose to run as a Republican. The thing we need to remember is that he provides us with a clear choice for a President, an honest statesman with integrity, unlike the other candidates of all parties.
Choose to state or not state your party affiliation depending on your states rules, but please vote for Ron Paul, not because he's on the Republican ticket, but because he is the man best suited for President of these united States of America.
For those states such as CA
Where voters have the option to register "Decline to state party", that option should be part of the RP program in those states or areas of states where applicable. Where I live, for example, Mendocino, the ration of Dems to GOP is 80%-20%. I know most of these folks are not going to register GOP, but they would register "DtSP", so that's why I'm saying something here about it. Several activists here have told me, they like RP, but there's no way in hell they will join the GOP, not for anyone for any reason. So I present the DtSP option for those who CAN. I CAN and I fully intend to vote for RP, but I'm not vote other GOP or Dems. I usually stick to third parties for smaller races.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
I Agree
I am with you on that point Granger.
For those having trouble reconciling personal values by registering as a Republican/Democrat, AND live in an Open Primary state, by all means look to the "no party affiliation" option.
For those in Close Primary states, please look beyond the label of Republican/Democrat, register as a Republican, vote for a statesman with integrity, Congresman Paul, in the elections, and then change to whatever party you are more comfortable being labeled under.
Please support this honest statesman in to the White House regardless of the label you might have to wear for a few short months.
I understand
When Lieberman switched he only had his home state to contend with. But when you're running for president there are fifty states all with different rules thanks in most part to the two party's in power.
They're like the good old boy's club you either follow their rules or you are on the outside looking in.
It would only take one time for someone to break through to the presidency with a third party and those two parties would start losing a lot of their power and then maybe in the future there would be a more level field from which to seek public office. A level field where a poor person wouldn't have to sell his soul to the highest bidder in order to become a public servant.
Maybe then we would have more statesman like Ron Paul, instead of what we have now...politicians.
Go all out
1)
The Republican nomination should be, and is, Ron Paul's only goal right now. All energy needs to be focused on that. His AND ours. He knows from experience that the media and the biased laws give NO love to 3rd parties. If he gets the nomination he gets the full support of the party, all the money, and he's guaranteed to be on every ballot. This is a general election win for sure.
2)
IF, however, he does not get the nomination, none of his supporters will go away and he won't be able just quit. He will run as a third party or independent. This scenario will be tough, but if WE continue to do the things we're doing he can't lose.
Quite honestly I wish things weren't like this because i'm sick as hell of listening to the GOPers spout there neo-con BS at every event where Ron Paul has to prove himself. I despise having to fund their local party which is full of hate just so that we can make a good showing and support our man. I hate having to defend their crappy party every time I try to tell someone about THE BEST CANDIDATE EVER. But all of this is worth it I guess for a jump start on freedom.
The rEVOLution has begun!!!!