"Papers please!" New AZ law allows police to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being illegal.
Submitted by Michael Nystrom on Wed, 04/14/2010 - 12:17By MIRIAM JORDAN | WSJ.com
Arizona lawmakers on Tuesday passed one of the toughest pieces of immigration-enforcement legislation in the country, which would make it a violation of state law to be in the U.S. without proper documentation.
It would also grant police the power to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being illegal.
The bill could still face a veto from Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer. A spokesman for Ms. Brewer said she has not publicly commented on the bill. Ms. Brewer, a Republican, has argued for stringent immigration laws.
Under the measure, passed Tuesday by Arizona's lower house, after being passed earlier by the state Senate, foreign nationals are required to carry proof of legal residency.
Continue at: WSJ.com
And how, pray do tell, does a citizen - not required to carry ID "prove" that he or she is not "illegal?"
Welcome to police state creep. Let's hope the Governor vetoes this bill.
At first I was in grudging support of this bill
but after reading many of the comments in this thread, I now realize that this "Show Me Your Papers!" legislation is really indeed just more "police state creep". If Arizona officials REALLY wanted to just enforce immigration laws, they could most effectively do it either by cracking down on EMPLOYERS of illegal immigrants, or by effectively policing the border, neither of which would entail involving most Arizonans in suspicion or in random street or driver ID checks.
Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts on this measure here.
They already passed laws in
They already passed laws in Arizona years ago to try to stop illegal aliens from getting welfare and from working there illegally(when Janet Napolitano was governor there, she tried her best to stop the anti-welfare bill, even tried to prevent it from being properly enforced after it passed). This current anti-illegal immigration law follows years of efforts at passing anti-illegal immigration state laws, for those who were unaware and thought this came out of nowhere and was their first attempt at anti-illegal immigration laws.
"Cracking down on employers"...
Huh?
Do you mean INCREASING regulations on employers due to a FAILURE OF government?
So you're saying that we pay taxes once to enforce the borders, then pay higher prices again due to increased regulations placed on businesses to do the government's job?
Since when do pro-liberty pro-free market advocates support increased regulation on businesses to do the government's job?
For pete's sake.
Like RP says, secure the border then deport as you come into contact with illegals.
Don't burden and tax legal american citizens and businesses a second time.
Ron Paul did say though, in
Ron Paul did say though, in an interview, that laws against illegal immigration need to be enforced and employers should not be allowed to get away with knowingly hiring illegal aliens.
good point!
good point!
Ventura 2012
freedomsphoenix.com also caught it
http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Opinion/067407-2010-04-13-las...
The C4L in AZ caught this before anyone looks like
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/usa/AZ/
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/133502
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/133502
AZ Law
Again ... I concur get the Guard and strengthen that border. If it is not done this will turn into a humanitarian crisis ie. refugees ... can refugee status then be given to them?
Then the UN and who knows who else will get involved. 'Papers' should only be shown if one is arrested or detained for a crime imo and then identity must be established.
After that unfortunate rancher was murdered and those incursions by foreign agencies across the southern border this is more than significant grounds for reasonable cause to pursue the protection of the border imo.
With the news of this law in Mexico the other border states will be soon overwhelmed with the perceived crackdown. More reason for the Governors to make the right call.
donvino
AZ's law modeled after Fed Law ?
As I understand it AZ is enforcing the law the feds refuse to enforce.
Do you create a police state by legalizing concealed carry without a permit ? ...that's what AZ did. Perhaps they did this because there's an average of 3 kidnappings a day in Phoenix.
Operation Wetback was a 1954 operation by the United States Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) to remove about one million illegal immigrants from the southwestern United States, focusing on Mexican nationals[1]. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Wetback
Did that result in a police state ?
____
"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon
Lol
Arizona's law also turns over all data from law abiding citizens over to the feds.
This isn't the first time it's been done
Arizona is not the first to implement laws like this.
Prince William County, Virginia tried to do so before too and these were some of their findings:
"Calls to police for various types of crime and disorder have dropped or slowed in their rate of growth since the policy, but this could reflect less crime reporting by the public or the effects of factors other than the policy (for example, other police initiatives or out migration from the county due to the economy). Overall index crimes in the county have risen slightly, but some serious crimes—especially aggravated assaults went down substantially, a trend observed in both the calls for service and the Uniform Crime Report data. However, illegal immigrants are a small percentage of those arrested for violent crimes, so it seems unlikely that the policy was a primary cause of the county's drop in serious violence.
Most of the illegal immigrant arrestees referred to ICE have committed only minor crimes. If the
objective of the County’s immigration enforcement effort is to reduce serious crime, then the current
policy does not provide a very efficient means of achieving it. If the objective is to remove illegal
immigrants, then ICE does not have sufficient resources to handle the large numbers of referrals that
would result. ICE currently tries to limit the types of offenses for which it will pick up illegal immigrants
to more serious crimes in jurisdictions other than Prince William County."
You can read the whole report here: http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/10636.pdf
downsides
The policy has not increased residents’ sense of safety in the county. Instead, it appears to have
created an ethnic divide in people’s perceptions of the county.
Non-Hispanic whites living in areas that had experienced significant growth in the immigrant
population—particularly those that had large numbers of single men living in houses who then moved
out—reported in interviews and in the media that they felt safer. However, the numbers of these residents
were not high enough to substantially affect whites’ experiences in the county overall. Over the past 10
years, over 90 percent of non-Hispanic residents have reported that they feel safe in their neighborhoods.
That proportion did not drop as the immigrant population grew, nor did it rise when the policy went into
effect.
On the other hand, the survey does show a very large drop—2 points on a 10 point scale—in Hispanics’
assessment of the quality of life in Prince William County. And importantly, when asked if they would
like to live in the county five years from now, only 42 percent said yes compared to 77 percent in 2006.
These figures are in marked contrast to the responses of other county residents, which tended to be fairly
stable over time. And they suggest that the policy was probably affecting legal as well as illegal
immigrants.
The policy has resulted in lower levels of trust in government among Hispanics and African-
Americans.
One of the unintended consequences of the policy appears to be a large reduction—about 15 percent for
each group—in blacks’ and Hispanics’ trust that the government will do what is right most or all of the
time. The proportion of Hispanics who said they trusted the government fell from about 65 to 50%, while
blacks levels fell from 60% to 55%. In addition, Hispanics’ assessment of the quality of life in Prince
William County dropped by two points on a ten point scale, and 35 percent fewer Hispanics desired to
live in the county in five years time compared to the Hispanic response in the previous survey. These
declines are probably largely due to the policy, and they indicate that there is a growing divide between
Hispanic residents and other Prince William County residents. They also indicate that there may be a
spillover effect onto blacks, who may see themselves as potentially vulnerable, just as the Hispanics are
vulnerable.
The ethnic splits in resident attitudes regarding the County government, the Police Department and the
County’s quality of life are new and unwelcome developments that are clearly a result of the new policy
and the public conflict surrounding the policy’s creation; they present a significant challenge to police community
relations and to positive engagement of residents in the County’s governance.
UVA CSR / PERF / JMU
xii University of Virginia
In the coming weeks and months we will continue our evaluation of the Police Department’s immigration
enforcement policy. As we continue our work, we hope this interim report will be useful in informing the
continued policy debate in Prince William County and in other jurisdictions that are coping with the
continued dilemma of illegal immigration
Can we get the Southern Avenger on here?
he supports Arizona's states rights, but unlike Tessie101, he doesn't spam with an endless stream of mindless drivel that sounds like Sean Hannity junior.
Defending legal citizens
from civil rights violations is not the same as defending illegal acts of illegal immigrants.
Mr.Nystrom I would like to attempt to answer this question.
First of all in order to get a drivers licence in any State in the U.S. you must show a Social Security Card.
To get a Social Security Card you must show proof of citizenship,An Original Birth Certificate is the only Way to get a "Legitimate" SS#,And Card.Now that you have acquired a license in one State they will honor it in the next State because "on the Honor system" the previous State has "Checked the status" of the first license with an original Birth Certificate.This is where the problem comes into play,Is It "Original"?
Did they ever show a BC to get the original SS#?Or did they steal "Yours"to work and get a license?
The unfortunate thing is that you may not find out for 10 years that it was your number that they got loans for 3 cars on.that now you owe the debt on because the the SSA has no clue what is going on,Not enough manpower or Checks to catch it.Unfortunately this is the reality of the situation.
edit:I just realized someone raised an old post 15 days old,I should have not fell for this?
"They used to come get you and lock you up because you were insane, Now they come get you and lock you up because you are sane"
ATruepatriot....
This is your comment:
To get a Social Security Card you must show proof of citizenship,An Original Birth Certificate is the only Way to get a "Legitimate" SS#,And Card.
My Answer:
You are wrong, in California, if a grandson with a grandma that lives in Mexico illegally crosses the border, and needs some funds or a place to live, all the grandson needs to do is show grandman is living with him, or his family, they take her down to the nearest SS office and "BAM" she gets social security that she never paid into, nor has her family. Yes, I know this to be fact. This is totally wrong, and has been going on in the United States for at least 20 plus year. I use to work for a California State Agency, I know. We as American Tax payers get to pay for all the illegal's developmentally handicapped children as well as the family members that came here with them illegally. Most of these parents are really old and then get to collect government/tax-payer money that they have never paid into, along with all the free medical benefits that the government gives them. Personally I am sick of this crap, isn't anyone else here?
Tessie,You are correct!
and once they get a CA.SS# or Drivers licence it is now transferable to any other state in the union.Then they come back from Az. to Ca. and they "Appear" to have been a citizen "Forever"The tangled web we weave with no Checks or balances.
"They used to come get you and lock you up because you were insane, Now they come get you and lock you up because you are sane"
Don't worry about raising an old post....
Some folks miss alot of important information, and I think this is one of those...Thank you...
this is all very fascinating.
this is all very fascinating. but there are very few fans of the welfare state on the DP. and very few fans of broke programs EXACTLY like social security.
we've already narrowed down this topic to some key points.
"piling on" with various trivia and fun facts isn't going to make your case any stronger. it is what it is.
and if you're trying to "help" Arizona with their PR job, then quit while you're ahead.
several others thought they could just insult and badger everyone into agreeing.
lot's of outright lies and exaggeration.
the sad thing is, there are a lot of people on this forum who agree with locking down the borders, no anchor babies, terminating the freebies.
many of those same people are now repulsed by some seriously stupid statements. lies, misinformation, and a bold willingness to pay for their "security" at any cost.
just like the language the bootlickers who supported the assault on the Fundamentalist Mormon community near Eldorado.
just like the language of the bootlickers who support the assault from MIAC
just like the language used by Sean Hannity swilling "great americans" who demonize middle easterners as evil, criminals, who all need to be bombed into the next life.
just like the language after 911 by the neocons.
it's really too bad.
many of us want the same thing. we just don't have the same faith that has surprisingly and recently developed by some DPers in government/law-enforcement.
this shit has all the makings of some serious unintended consequences and blowback.
but i digress...
the time for rational discussion has come and gone.
i've seen what lies beneath the surface of many personalities here on the DP.
they would trade their freedom for security in a single heartbeat.
I think the PR campaign is done for. Those who are for it, are for it.
They are one type of people.
And those who have doubts, and those are sure this is the wrong tact, nothing you can say will change their minds.
and you're one of the more polite ones....
just imagine all the damage your cohorts have done...
This legislation is a cop out!
Where is this SECURING THE BORDER? It's designed to create strife within.
Are you American?
I have to ask now, what nationality are you, not that it really matters. I am of latin/european decent, born in the USA, fouth generation, and I am personally opposed to those that think they can come here to my country without carrying the proper documentation, or information on them. I was born in, and have fought for in the military of my country, as well as in civil courts. I do not believe that those that have not gone through our naturalization process, or have become citizens should be here, plain and simple. Why is it so hard for you liberals to comprehend this? Do you think I am wrong in my thinking, and if so why?
wow. explains the massive
wow.
explains the massive bootlicking tone to all your posts.
i've tired of your phony preaching.
you're on the wrong damn forum as you keep calling everyone here a liberal. there are no liberals here.
"Do you think I'm wrong in my thinking?"
No. Because you're thinking is akin to stating "water is wet"
no one disputes the truism/tautology filled portion of your statements (of which there is plenty).
it's the fantastic leap to your conclusion that everyone has trouble with.
Your posts might as well read:
"Evil is bad. Love is good. This is unquestionably true. And so is my conclusion. -Tessie"
What you don't get is that one thing is not connected to the other. You're not interested in getting it. So be it.
You've heard the core complaint. And to refute it, you and others post endless reams of tangential bullshit that does not address the core complaint.
My nationality is human.
My nationality is human.
Btw, I'm 100% pure libertarian. As far to the right as one can get!
Those of you with your "papers" are the liberals.
I am out of touch with most Americans precisely because I am not out of touch with reality.
It's nice that you spend so much time and actual respond to
what the person is saying.
(For those unaware, the above post has apparently become Tessie's stock response to anyone questioning the new AZ law.)
CHA-CHING!
How many Ron Paulers are from Arizona?
And as AMERICAN citizens of the State of Arizona what do you think of this new Bill? People from Arizona, that are citizens of this country, and know what is going on in their State are the ones who should be the only ones this is applying to. Please will an American citizen from Arizona please give us your opinion, or input please.....Personally I do not think that others from other states or countries should be telling one of our United States what their individual laws are, especially if they are only abiding by our Federal laws. Sorry, but I am a Conservative Republican/Libertarian, who is very Constitutionally minded. By the way I was banned on this website for several days because a moderator did not agree my Constitutional stance.
Tessie I am an oath keeper,A registered voter,and a resident of
Az. and so far what I am finding out is not everyone here on this site even has a right to try and tell us how to vote or conduct "Our" business in Az.
So don't let it bother you because I have found that The majority have been wrong in their "known" predictions.But I love them and like to be part of their "Trying"
"They used to come get you and lock you up because you were insane, Now they come get you and lock you up because you are sane"
I am an OathKeeper as well...
I believe in my country, and our people. I believe in protecting our nation first, and foremost.
wow. it's like Sean Hannity
wow.
it's like Sean Hannity junior.
when you typed that, were you holding a bible wrapped in a flag?
I can't stand that smug punk.
I can't stand that smug punk. I'd say he should go back to Russia, but they don't like commies there either.
I am out of touch with most Americans precisely because I am not out of touch with reality.