About converting huckabee's
Submitted by thomas1234 on Thu, 12/13/2007 - 06:27I was on facebook 10 minutes ago and I came across a Huckabee supporter on a Christian group. He was advocating the usual - Huckabee was a minister so Christians should support him. Here was my response to him, in an effort to educate him some.
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Please take the time to read some notes I have compiled about Huckabee. I think it would be important for you to look at him a little deeper.
Mike Huckabee was responsible for personally advocating releasing a convicted rapist. This man went on to kill and rape two other women after Huckabee released him. Huckabee was also responsible for signing death warrants, and I'll let you decide what Jesus would have done in those cases.
Giuliani and Ron Paul are both very religious men, Ron Paul being the ONLY one of the Republican candidates actively pursuing legislation to repeal Roe V. Wade. On top of this, Huckabee has been using his faith as a catapult to enter into the political arena when Jesus advocated hiding your faith, going into your closet and praying alone. Put oil on your face to hide fasting. Not exact words, but you can read it in Matthew 5-13.
On top of all this, Huckabee rose taxes in Arkansas more than Clinton rose taxes. Many Arkansas people are against Huckabee and he is not winning popular polls in his own home state. http://www.arkansasleader.com/2007/11/editorialswhos-biggest... Here is a taxation source. Not only this, but Huckabee has attacked Romney over his Mormon faith. This is not a very Christian thing to do in a political arena. Regardless of whether Mormons are Christians or not, Huckabee should have been doing this as a personal conversion.
I sent this to you not to convince you to support another candidate, but to think hard about what makes Huckabee a decent candidate at all. If you're looking for the Christian candidate, I would direct you to Ron Paul. http://www.covenantnews.com/ronpaul070721.htm
Here you can view his statement of faith. The only other religious man I have found besides Ron Paul is Rudy Giuliani, but his policies do not agree with many Christians since he is pro-choice.
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Please edit edit and re-edit this. Make it a great letter, but possibly shorter or barely any longer. I want to get this personal message out to Huckabee's voters one by one.
Giuliani is religious?
He certainly doesn't live by Catholic doctrine.
Please correct and remove some things
Jesus never said to hide your faith but just the opposite. Your point is mistaken and only partly understood. You made a statement but proved something else. Don't boast in your abilities, don't manipulate others with your profession is your point.
Remove death warrents, this is not a possition that will convince any Christian as has been shown be someone below. It is the place of government to use the sword.
I also do not think the Romney thing is wise to mention. Many Christians would be glad that someone opposes a Mormon for office.
You need to make strong arguments and avoid weak arguements that will weaken the affect of your strong arguments.
I'm a Christian, and I think this letter needs tweaking
Thanks for your work, but I think you need to change a few things, if you want to reach conservative Christians:
1.) Don't mention Ron Paul and Rudy Giuliani in the same sentence. Because of Giuliani's support for abortion, pictures of him cross-dressing, his now-famous affair or taxpayer money, and 3 marriages, he has no appeal among conservative Christians, except, maybe, if it was a choice between he and Hilary. But, I think, then, many conservative Christians would not vote. I don't know what Giuliani's religious beliefs are, but RP shouldn't be even loosely associated with a man that many conservative Christians see as claiming faith and then living opposite of it.
2.) Also, don't use the "hiding your faith" phrase. That is not the point of the Scriptures you are referencing. You are right, that Jesus says not to use things like fasting and praying as outward shows to gain approval, but he also says that Christians are not to put their light under a bushel. People are to be able to look at a Christian, and know by his deeds that he is a Christian. I can see the point that you are trying to make, and I think you are right, that Huckabee is wrongly promoting his holiness for worldly gain. However, most conservative Christians think that politicians should be more Christian, so a better tactic would be to contrast Huckabee's words with his actions, and then point to Ron Paul, who is a professing Christian (nice link to his statement of faith) but whose actions speak much more loudly than his words ever could.
3.) Don't mention the death penalty. Many Christians believe that the death penalty should be in force. Right or wrong, on this issue, you will not be gaining voters.
4.) Putting up the taxes link is great! Do more of that. Conservative christians should want less government.
Thanks again, for your work
How Devine
How "Godly" was it to smash the computer drives at the governor's mansion? This man has all the scruples of Bill Clinton.
Convert them with the facts...
Just like you did. It's simple, and it's worked for me too.
The Huckster
I personally find it appalling & frightening that he is ( supposedly) surging in the polls. The founding fathers must be rolling over in their graves right now. After 7+ years with a president who believes he is on a Holy mission in the middle east, I just don't get it. And I find Huckmeister's references to God helping his campaign scary. This guy is , to quote the Everyone Loves Raymond show " An idiot wrapped inside a moron". I really hope that Iowans & the rest of the country don't buy into this. Oh, and his completely stupid remark on a show about not having much foreign policy experience but " I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night". If it came down to him or Barack or Hillary, I would vote Democratic. I fear many will buy into is evangelical message --- one of my Aunts is an evangelical , and talk about a bunch of Lemmings. Absolutely no intelligent thought or research goes into a decision. That has been my experience .
I would use all but the 2nd
Paragraph about capital punishment. There are too many Christians who(rightfully) would take offense at the notion to give up that institution. Christian Europe for about 15 centuries employed it for heinous crimes. Romans 13 says that government doesn't have the power of the sword in vain. God gave parents the rod(spanking) to keep order in the house, He gave the Church the keys(excommunication) to keep order in its congregations, and He gave the government...the sword, to keep order in society(of course only to be reserved for the most serious of crimes).
I'm not trying to sway you towards capital punishment as much as to say that the Christians who advocate this have very good theological ground to stand on, and if you're coming at them for Dr. Paul based on Christian/theological issues, this is not something to bring up. Good otherwise though!
Capital Punisment
I was disturbed by Ron Paul's weak stance on the death penalty, until I heard his justification.
Paul is against the death penalty not because executing murderers is wrong, but because our "justice" system has too many holes in it that allow innocent men to die (as we now know through use of DNA testing).
Executing the WRONG person is UNFORGIVABLE AND IS MURDER
We had a justice system wherein our values were..
It is better than 10 guilty men go free rather than 1 innocent man be wrongly convicted..
That was written in a 1970's SUPREME COURT opinion...
I don't think many Americans feel that way today... in fact I would be it be just the opposite..
the death penalty in order to be JUST.. must be FAIR.. and HANDED OUT FAIRLY... It has not been EVER..
How is it that one man is killed because he killed two people... yet another is spared that killed 23 prostitutes.. or one is spared that killed 50 and one is put to death that killed one...
I hear the eye for an eye theory... but JESUS FROWNED ON THAT ONE... if ya'll haven't forgotton...
They never learn
Haven't Christians learned anything in the last seven years about pols who wear their religion on their sleeve and claim that God talks to them about policy? How many generations of Americans are gonna fall for this transparent tomfoolery?
Learning
I was dissappointed in Bush's use of Christianity in his campaigning, particularly because of his foul mouth (when he doesn't know that there are cameras or reporters nearby) and his apparent belief that the Allah of Islam is the same as the God of Christianity.
I'm a Christian and have a much higher tolerance for swearing than most, and I am open to a lot of spiritual beliefs that aren't mainline, but I don't try to pretend I'm a more conservative Christian than I really am.
I usually remain silent on my particular Christian beliefs unless directly asked or until intellectual honesty demands me to speak up, but for the most part, I let people believe about me what they want to believe. It's their fault for making assumptions, not mine.
the same God...
to add to what jdb posted, yes, the Abrahamic faiths (and perhaps others) DO believe in the same "God". Christians who speak Arabic use the name Allah, which is simply the name of God in Arabic ... the name of our Creator, the One who created all of mankind and the heavens and the earth.
Please don't misunderstand the minor differences in our faiths - we see how the mainstream media is corrupted when it comes to the Ron Paul campaign and numerous other political issues. Well, the same holds true with the mainstream media's distorted picture of Islam and Muslims.
There are many of us Muslims who support Ron Paul, and many more are joining the cause. And we all have the same core beliefs in freedom from govt tyranny, individual rights and responsibilities, the "live and let live" philosophy, and holding everyone to moral standards of the golden rule.
Witness the POWER of an IDEA - the MASSIVE Ron Paul Rallies! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgsg7a-Ok8Q
I am muslim and I would like
I am muslim and I would like to address your statement about Bush beliving that the Allah of Islam is the same as the God of Christianity is somehow wrong. I know that Christians belive that Jesus is The son of God. But before Jesus, their was God the holy spirit. The spirit who spoke to Adam and Eve. Thats the muslims God, and I asume the God of Christians. We also belive in Jesus and the emaculate conception of Mary. Where we differ is that we belive Jesus was a great prophet of God.
Allah/God
No offense, but I was raised to believe that Allah is not the same as the Christian God.
I was also raised to believe the God of Mormonism and the God of the Jehovah's Witnesses were not the one true God.
However, I once had a friend who was a JW, and after talking a lot with her I came to believe that despite our dogmatic differences, we shared the same God.
I share even more differences with the Latter Day Saints, but I think for the most part our God is the same.
I probably agree more with Muslims than I do Mormons, so by default I should probably say that our God is the same.
Of course, worshiping the same God does not make our respective religions equal or identical. We have differing views about salvation, among other things. . . .
Bush n Huck about the same
Huck is certainly smarter and a better communicator... I don't think you would see Huck flipping of the camera's time after time like GWB does.... I don't think Huck would and often use the language GWB does quite often actually..
But Huck is a different kind of animal.. If I were Huck and I BELIEVED THE BIBLE... The following might give me a few restless nights
18. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
19. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
0.
Murder
0.
5:25,26pp -- Lk 12:58,59
21. "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.'
22. But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca, ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Also. . . .
I've heard a very convincing arguement that Ron Paul's states' rights approach to protecting the unborn has more potential than trying to ammend the Constitution.
A push for a constitutional pro-life ammendment could bring about a very messy political debate that abortionists would probably win, whereas the states' rights approach would allow pro-lifers to slowly, and much more successfully change the national political climate one state at a time.
Also, Giuliani may have been raised catholic, but his marital history, speeches, and overall demeanor don't exactly exude authentic Christianity.
I'd rather have Huckabee as president than Guiliani.
asdfh
Yeah, the state's rights approach is easier, but I can't really work all that into my letter. If you can find a way to put it in there strong and remain brief, let me know.
Hmm
Could you post a copy of his letter or email a copy to me? Perhaps then I could better understand the tone and depth of your conversation.
My mom is a Huckabee supporter so I've gone through similar conversations with her.
Talking points just keep going through my mind right now....
Huckabee has made a lot of pardoning decisions that were wrong in hindsight, but I'm not sure those decisions by themselves are sufficient reason to vote against him.
Huckabee's liberal economic leanings intimidate me the most. I think the Church is much better suited to meeting the spiritual and physical needs of humanity than government is, and I think it's best to keep both Christian morals and Christian charity out of government--both for the Church's sake and for the government's.
Jesus was all for paying taxes to Rome, but he did not live in a country with the same traditions of democracy that we do. Christian citizens in America have a great deal of influence--influence I think we often abuse.
Most Muck Huck supporters are like US!
They want someone they can BELIEVE someone who they think CAN'T BE BOUGHT!!..
But here are my fundemental problems with Michael Huckabee..
He says... and has several times..
We need to love our neighbors.. I dont know how that philosphy squares with we need to win with dignity in Iraq... we shouldn't even BE THERE.... Life is PRECIOUS so are Iraqi lives who NEVER wanted America in thier Country... I feel sorry for so many innocent Iraqi's.. and Mr. Huckabee's statements about loving our neighbor are meaningless to me with the other attitude..
He also says that what we do to the VERY LEAST AMONG US... and I ASSUME he is talking about mankind here.. and not just white english speaking Americans... We do unto christ.... again... see my rant above to Mr. Huckabee's love of the Iraq war..
Now.. in 1992... let me say this again... IN 1992... 1992... This guy wanted to QUARRANTINE HIV PATIENTS... IN 1992!!! MY GOD!!
EVERYONE by 1990 KNEW you were not going to get aids minus some pretty intimate contact... and it was NOT THE SCOURGE OF GOD EITHER.. many many many innocent partners.. wives husbands... even children from blood transfusions etc had it...
this is NOT compassionate... NOT SCIENCED BASED THOUGHT.. and not thinking about "The least among us"...
And I have to agree with the post... I just don't EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER see Jesus doing two things Mr. Huckabee supports...
PRE-EMPTIVE WAR... or in Jesus's case Pre-emptive saving... He lets us choose.. the offer is there..
KILLING EVEN THE GUILTYas Christ has said let those among u with NO SIN... CAST THE FIRST STONE... so maybe Mike Himself was flippin the switch... he being sinless and all
Can you
Can you find a credible source for me and tell me where to work it in?
Right from mattews 5...
Now that I read it again.. I WISH THESE RELIGIOUS CANDIDATES DID READ THE BIBLE MORE.... example
Love for Enemies
43. "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44. But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45. that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
46. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
47. And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
48. Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect
"Hiding"
I wouldn't say "hiding" faith, I'd say something like "being modest about faith" or "not being showy about faith."
Anyway, good luck with all your efforts, and God bless!
Actually
christ tells us to let our faith shine like a light... BY OUR EXAMPLE... BY THE LIFE WE LEAD..
Where the problem comes is when u start TELLING PEOPLE your doing this right and living godly... GOD WANTS THAT TO BE APPARENT..
NOT SOMETHING YOU POINT OUT!!
This is EXACTLY how I see Dr. Paul and his religion... I KNOW the man is religious... you can tell by his BEHAVIOR...
A lesser man would have attacked as Alan Keyes did today.... and YEAH I've wanted Ron Paul to attack... but he isn't that man... He NEVER WAVERS.. but won't ATTACK to get attention...
I guess... thats something about him I really do like..... when I think about it... He is a Godly man... and I don't know what REAL HONEST CHRISTIANS... are NOT seeing... they KNOW WAR'S AND KILLING ARE WRONG...
Unless they never got out of the OLD Testement... but then HOW COULD THEY BE CHRISTIANS?????
Spread the Gospel. Use Words if Necessary.
Yes, Jesus did encourage his followers to stand out--be the light of the world and the salt of the earth--and I think it was the apostle John who stressed that nonbelievers should recognize Christians by their love.
Evangelism gets so tricky and gets such a bad rap because of the loud-mouthed hypocrites who ruin evangelism for everyone else.
I personally don't think Huckabee is a hypocrite (although Romney might be), I just think Huckabee's a bit too eager and talkative about his faith in a day and age where eagerness and talkativeness is a turn-off to the Gospel rather than a conduit for the Holy Spirit.
As James says, it's impossible to show faith by words alone, and as Jesus says (correct me if I'm wrong), Christians should be as crafty as snakes but as harmless as doves.
Square these statements for me
The love thy neighbor...
they what we do we do to the least among us..
How does that fit with what he wants us doing in Iraq?? How does it fit for us BEING in Iraq...
don't tell me.. If we love them.. we help them by choosing a group to prop up and killing those that are opposed to the group we choose... and forcing them to allow our companies to pump their oil for SET PRICES..
And how does it square with JESUS telling us to LOVE OUR ENEMIES.. PRAY FOR THEM.. TREAT THEM WITH KINDNESS...
Now he is talking about ENEMIES.. not the folks that actually ATTACKED us.. but the people who HATE US because of how we responded to that..
Muck Huck is a HYPOCRITE..
you want a PERFECT EXAMPLE???
He..."innocently" questioned... don't mormons believe Jesus is the brother of Satan?"
After it was explained that Mormons believe that ALL beings were created by God... so from that sense I suppose you could say that.. but Jesus Christ represent THE OPPOSITE OF SATAN.. He is the path to salvation...
What does the Honest Christian Huck do.. He APOLOGIZE's... like this..
"I am deeply sorry to Gov Romney and never intended to put a belief of the mormons as center stage of this election"
Thanks for the APOLOGY.. again saying that MORMONS BELIEVE SATAN & JESUS GREW UP TOGETHER>.....
Gotta like mike eh!!
thanks
I didn't think too carefully about that wording since it is early.
Your Welcome!
Have a nice day!
Looks alright. I would make
Looks alright. I would make 100% sure that bible quote is right and the interpretation is feasible for the situation. I'm an atheist so I wouldn't know but it looks like a very deeply religious person might be offended if encouraged to hide his faith. I'm definitely with you on the idea that Huckabee constantly (ab)uses Christianity to propel his image.
edit: Also, be more honest on how Huckabee pardoned the guy. As I know, he LOBBIED for his pardon which isn't to say he did the pardoning. I might be wrong here.
and isn't Romney deeply religious too?
When you criticize other people's choices these are things that come up in their minds. It's called confirmation bias. A good strategy for converting others is to put yourself into their shoes. Resist your own words as much as you can, find as many faults as you can in the way you represent things.
ok that's all...=)
Romney
Romney is a business man and a politician. He isn't really that religious other than the fact that Mormonism is an attention getter so his faith is constantly brought up.
No, what I meant by that is
No, what I meant by that is that the guy probably has pre-formed assumptions such as: "Romney is deeply religious" because as you said ,it's brought up a lot.
My advice was to keep in mind that a person tends to accept information that reinforces established ideas and looks to discredit ideas that are incoherent with what he has heard before. There's a psychology behind being persuasive, you need to think about more than simply laying out information.