0 votes

Immigration & The Imaginary Lines That Devide Countries - Radio Broadcast 9PM EST

Date: Sunday, May 9, 2010
Time: 9:00pm EST - 11:00pm EST
Here is the link to listen live

This week Mandie and James (Tom is off for this show) will be talking with several people about immigration. Guests include Stephan Kinsella, Wilton Dale Alston and Mariana Evica.

Stephan Kinsella is a libertarian writer and attorney in Houston, Texas. He has been active writing and speaking on topics such as rights theory, legal theory, Austrian economics, anarcho-libertarianism, contract theory, inalienability, property law, causation, intellectual property, and punishment theory. He is a Senior Fellow of the Ludwig von Mises Institute, a member of the Advisory Panel of the Center for a Stateless Society, and the founder and Editor of Libertarian Papers.

Wilt Alston lives in Rochester, NY, with his wife and three children. When he’s not training for a marathon or furthering his part-time study of libertarian philosophy, he works as a principal research scientist in transportation safety, focusing primarily on the safety of subway and freight train control systems. Wilt has written articles for both LewRockwell.com and Strike-the-Root.com.

Mariana Evica uses Social Media & Web strategy to connect the grass-roots movements of Voluntaryism, Agorism, Natural Parenting, the Arts and Alternative Education. Her writing is inspired by myth, ritual and family. Mariana recently started working as Development Specialist and Social Media Specialist with the Center for a Stateless Society. She has two children and resides in CT

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

It's very simple

There are people on this planet who share characteristics with others such as language, religion, physical features, etc. It is referred to as ethnicity. This is the primary reason why there are countries. This is so people can retain their culture which they are rightly proud of. There is nothing wrong with it and it is a basic reality of human existence. This is why anarchists are regarded as buffoons and not taken seriously. Their idealistic utopia blinds them from the reality in which they live.

Of course you're correct.

But many ideologues recoil with horror when confronted with the realities you mention. Some start with a basic false premise that people are all basically alike.
Others recognize the differences and seek to obliterate them, think Lenin or Stalin.
Neither group has anything to offer to make the world more stable, freer, more prosperous, or more peaceful.

"Imaginary Lines"

Those who seek to do away with those "imaginary lines" are naive. No countries means one country, and one country means one world government.
A better goal is to create more "imaginary lines", many more countries, smaller countries. Smaller countries means less powerful central governments.
Those who oppose "imaginary lines" have it backwards.

Get rid of "countries"

We don't need political lines. Private property lines are enough, and are where it's at.

oh... so you are for one

oh... so you are for one world government..

“Defiance of God’s Law will eventually bring havoc to a society.” - Dr. Ron Paul

I am not normally in the habit of

questioning people's intelligence, but let's analyze the logic you're using, rebelsoul:

Atrickpay: I oppose the existence of government.
rebelsoul: So you support one world government?

Geez, fellow, he says he opposes all government. That seems to me to imply that he opposes one world government. Since one world government is a form of government, by definition, Atrickpay is opposed to one world government.

Am I missing something here?


Absolutely not.

As the number of countries approaches infinity

political lines become private property lines. Those serious about anarchy should support devolution.
I don't believe anarchy can be achieved moving in the other direction, one world government.
Even those doubtful about anarchy should be friendly to devolution.
If my county were a country I doubt we'd be sending troops to Afghanistan or we'd be the target of people have way around the world.

With respect

Do you really think this is ever going to happen?Let's get real,it is a dream for many generations to come.Never in our lifetime.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Not sure when it will happen.

It should be the end goal of a libertarian tho.
Individual sovereignty is where it's at.

As a libertarian minded realist

I guess it is nice to dream,But it is like turning lead to gold,Dreamed about and tried for hundreds of years but will never happen.At some point it is an impossible pipe dream.Fact is Fact.Other options or compromises have to be considered as more productive and realistic thought.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

There are many

things once thought "nice to have", but a "pipe dream".

Take a look at the technological advancement of the last 200 hundred years alone.

The human mind didn't advance nearly as fast as our technological gadgets (in many respects the mind had even to retreat). Maybe the next revolution will be the inner revolution. At least I hope so.

If that happens, true individualism becomes a lot more realistic.

Napolitano: "We need Ron Paul now!"

I agree with you about "Dreams"

Man once dreamed of flying like a bird,and it happened. I understand dreams like this,But changing Human nature is and always will be trying to turn lead to gold.I would like to think anything is possible,but in reality somethings just are not.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Human nature

doesn't need to be changed.

There is a natural human potential, to raise awareness. It takes hard work, and can only be done by the individual. Everything the society does or teaches is designed to prohibit this process of self-awakening.

This is not like turning lead into gold, it has been done before! Look at the rEVOLution for a little "awakening" example. Some individuals in history have gone the full way like Buddha, Jesus, Lao Tzu, dozents of other prophets and "enlightend" beings have walked the planet. The "new-age" movement is one step in the right direction (although often laughed at). Ending the prohibition of certain drugs that can raise awareness, would be another great great step, like mariuahana, Iboga and other such drugs that don't only have an recreational component, but can help to raise consciousness. There are so many exciting things that can/will happen in the awareness realm, that it's not a pipe dream, and I repeat, it was proven by many individuals that it can be done (after all we left the dark middle-ages, too).
Ron Paul also said you don't need 50% of all individuals for real change, you need like 5% to lead the way. Why shouldn't the same apply in awareness/consciousness? It's highly realistic and desirable, if you ask me. The only question is how many more generations will it take?
That we're even having this nice discussion proves my point, the internet(truth-button) could play a major role in this new human age.

Napolitano: "We need Ron Paul now!"

How would you deal with the opportunist

Genes that are in the human DNA? this trait can only be controlled by fear.Humans will always eat the apple no matter what.There will always be "gangs" and "Territories"

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Good question

I guess, somebody has to start, set the example and be emulated. Just like the first industrial nations were emulated. Michael Nystrom set this blog up, and many new Michael Nystrom's since then were "born" and started to follow the lead.

Use the opportunist Genes to our advantage. :-) But it's a really good point.

I sincerly believe mariuahana and the like are really forbidden by the establishment, because it knows full well what the human potential is. It's the biggest threat to ever power-hungry thugs. We are capable of using those tools for good, the more training we get the more likely we become "good carpenters".

If we start, by getting Ron Paul to the presidency and to transform one country into a liberty heaven. Many people who once thought libertarianism/individualism was a pipe dream and not realistic will be proven wrong by the positive culture and economic results that will follow. Maybe that can snow-ball into a mind-revolution?

Napolitano: "We need Ron Paul now!"

The HAR1 Genome

that is present in all humans will dictate the chance of emulation,this is the gene that makes us different from all other species.This gene pushes humans to think on their own and seek every possible way of making life easier for the individual seeking it.This is the problem gene,are we to remove this gene to initiate everyone to "Emulate"?This,I'm afraid would be the only way.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Not sure

if that's a contradiction. First you said, we are opportunistic, which is a form of emulation. (My neighbor has a pool, I want that, too!) Then you say we have basic (genetical!) tendencies to think for ourselves, which I think is the very basis for awakening/individualism/truthsearching (dropping everything but the truth). If what you're saying about HAR1 is true, wouldn't that make a great building block for awakening the human potential. Keep in mind, everyone must eventually realize this in himself to make it happen. The critical mass is only needed to make it possible to remove the barriers (public education, indoctrination, debt-slavery => which forces to life-long work instead of "finding one's self").
Will definitively do research on HAR1, sounds pretty neat. Maybe it's not neccessary that everyone "awakes", but a huge percentage of quasi "zen masters" could heighten the conciousness of all. I believe there is a consciousness-field that we are all connected to (with different degrees of awareness), so if some (maybe 2% or 5%) use their HAR1 for truthseeking and even spiritual awakening, then the heightened consciousness might have a positive effect on the rest?
This is in the realm of speculation... :-)

Napolitano: "We need Ron Paul now!"

Nice thought

But the HAR1 gene is what will always make a "Hitler" pop out of nowhere,It creates greed,and can produce itself generations later.It will always be there.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.


I don't deny that. Hopefully there will be a time when the different kinds of "Hitler"'s will simply be laughed at and left alone. I mean, Hitler can "hate-speech" as much as he wants, when not too many take him seriously... ^^

As for Hitler's history... Had it not been for the great depression (and we know who brought it about, the originators of funny money) and had Germany not received a ridiculous load of reparation-debt after WW1, then the breeding ground for this sorry excuse of a human being wouldn't have existed.
After WW1 Germany had to agree to a peace-treaty, where it was obligated to pay more goldmarks back as reparations, then the total gold that was in Germany's economy, this crippled the German population and was hated very much. Hitler's popularity was in a large part due to his criticism of this treaty, all other parties in Germany didn't bother to tap into the German's emotions in regards to the near to impossible amount of debt/reparations. Ron Paul knows that, I think.
A world with some economic sanity takes away a lot of the arguments potential Hitlers can use to talk a population in rage. Not wanting to excuse what Germans or Hitler did, but this is something that is rarely on the table...

Napolitano: "We need Ron Paul now!"

I would like to

Continue this later I have to go to work for a few,Be back.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

The best

"imaginary line" would be "the individual". It would be based on the physical body, and therefore natural, not really imaginary.
But implemting this requires that the whole world wakes up, and human consciousness must rise. Until then, I agree, that the smallest possible "imaginary lines" are a good, practical goal.

Napolitano: "We need Ron Paul now!"