7 votes

Can any doctors provide PROOF of "herd immunity"?

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I am up for a respectful conversation with anyone who can provide proof that vaccines provide what is known as "herd immunity" - that 80% to 95% of kids must be vaccinated in order to create a broad immunity of the herd.

Where are these studies that have been done in the real world?

The reason I am concerned is because the drumbeats are getting louder and louder regarding those who don't vaccinate - that we are breaking-down this "herd immunity", thereby endangering society.

I can cite instances of REAL populations in Oregon, California, Illinois and many other places where there are HUGE gaps in the vaccination-rate and there are no outbreaks of all these diseases they keep telling us will make a comeback if their vax-rates drop below 80%.

I also can provide statistics/charts that prove that these diseases were in 80%-90%-decline by the time these vaccines were introduced - mainly due to modern-day sanitation.

Vaccines Did Not Save Us – 2 Centuries of Official Statistics

Those of us who don't vaccinate don't want to force our views on anyone - we just want to be left alone without being accused of spreading disease or FORCED to receive vaccinations.

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SteveMT's picture

The claims are there, but the evidence is lacking.

Characteristics of the Oral Polio Vaccine
Sep 23, 2010

Benefits

According to The Children's Hospital of Philadelphia Vaccine Education Center, the oral vaccine stimulates an immune response in the nose, mouth and intestines, which stops the virus before it can invade the blood. Also, because it passes in its weakened form through the immunized person's stool, other persons can come in contact with it and become immunized too. This is an advantage in areas where the disease is still endemic. Finally, it is easier to administer in oral form, especially to children.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/256603-characteristics-of-...

SteveMT's picture

They believe this because oral polio vaccines are STILL....

being used in Africa and Asia hoping for this herd immunity hopeful monster. I call it herd infectivity. The attenuated virus can revert back to the wild-type polio while in the environment and caused full-blown polio. [Insanity, IMO.]

Pakistan polio vaccination project among award winners
Ashfaq Yusufzai | Agencies | 13 hours ago

PESHAWAR: Health authorities in Pakistan hope that a programme to promote child vaccination will do away with misconceptions about the oral polio vaccine (OPV) in the country’s Swat district, and create a demand for immunisation.

http://dawn.com/2012/04/29/pakistan-polio-vaccination-projec...

More insanity:
http://www.polioeradication.org/content/publications/opvcess...

Read "The Sane Society" by

Read "The Sane Society" by Erich Fromm

There is a theory that you become

who you hang out with. Who's to say it doesn't apply to immunity?

$10 Vaccination by force of law.. San Francisco- Mark Twain 1870

Forced Vaccination, $10. GOLDSMITH'S FRIEND ABROAD AGAIN. THE GALAXY, BY MARK TWAIN, October 1870

NOTE: No experience is set down in the following letters which had to be invented. Fancy is not needed to give variety to the history of a Chinaman's sojourn in America. Plain fact is amply sufficient.

LETTER I.

SHANGHAI, CHINA 1870

DEAR CHING-FOO: It is all settled, and I am to leave my oppressed and overburdened native land and cross the sea to that noble realm where all are free and all equal, and none reviled or abused -- America! America, whose precious privilege it is to call herself the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. We and all that are about us here look over the waves longingly, contrasting the privations of this our birthplace with the opulent comfort of that happy refuge. We know how America has welcomed the Germans and the Frenchmen and the stricken and sorrowing Irish, and we know how she has given them bread and work and liberty, and how grateful they are.

[Upon arrival in the port of San Francisco...] Having now no baggage and no companion, I told my employer that if he was willing, I would walk about a little and see the city and the people until he needed me. I did not like to seem disappointed with my reception in the good land of refuge for the oppressed, and so I looked and spoke as cheerily as I could. But he said, wait a minute -- I must be vaccinated to prevent my taking the small-pox. I smiled and said I had already had the small-pox, as he could see by the marks, and so I need not wait to be "vaccinated," as he called it. But he said it was the law, and I must be vaccinated anyhow. The doctor would never let me pass, for the law obliged him to vaccinate all Chinamen and charge them ten dollars apiece for it, and I might be sure that no doctor who would be the servant of that law would let a fee slip through his fingers to accommodate any absurd fool who had seen fit to have the disease in some other country. And presently the doctor came and did his work and took my last penny -- my ten dollars which were the hard savings of nearly a year and a half of labor and privation. Ah, if the law-makers had only known there were plenty of doctors in the city glad of a chance to vaccinate people for a dollar or two, they would never have put the price up so high against a poor friendless Irish, or Italian, or Chinese pauper fleeing to the good land to escape hunger and hard times. - AH SONG HI

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

I have written a short article regarding this scam

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Herd immunity from vaccines is nothing more than vaccine quotas

http://www.polkmoms.com/forum/topics/herd-immunty-from-vacci...

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www.vaclib.org

And here are some more of my articles/compilations

Vaccines are causing mutations, creating a similar problem as antibiotics
http://www.polkmoms.com/forum/topics/are-vaccines-causing-mu...

A collection of news articles showing examples of those in positions-of-authority who undermine our trust
http://www.polkmoms.com/forum/topics/a-collection-of-news-ar...

Compilation of mistaken vaccines given in spite of exemptions and other vaccine errors
http://www.polkmoms.com/forum/topics/compilation-of-mistaken

Regarding vaccines, we were told these things with a straight-face by experts and officials
http://www.dailypaul.com/194235/regardng-vaccine-injuries-we...

THEY are coming after your unvaccinated kids (A compilation)
http://www.dailypaul.com/179504/they-are-coming-after-your-u...

A collection of mainstream news reports and studies exploding the whooping cough vaccine myth
http://www.dailypaul.com/167931/a-collection-of-mainstream-n...

Can the government and pharm empire be trusted? (A compilation of conflicts-of-interest and unethical trials)
http://www.dailypaul.com/176546/can-the-government-and-pharm...

From 1920 book - "Compulsory Vaccination Condemned by Our Courts as Unconstitutional"
http://www.dailypaul.com/148997/from-1920-book-compulsory-va...

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www.vaclib.org

SteveMT's picture

"No" for the no-longer-used live polio vaccine.

"The safety of using the live oral polio vaccine to passively vaccinate close contacts of recipients (herd immunity), has never been scientifically demonstrated, licensed or regulated even though it has been used as an official polio disease control strategy for more than three decades."
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/marini2.html

+1

+1

There are no studies demonstrating herd immunity, quite the

contrary, as, for instance, the finding that Amish children in Minnesota, who are not vaccinated, have polio viruses in their blood.

The source: polio vaccines taken by other children, who shed the live virus which they ultimately got into the blood of the unvaccinated. The investigators investigated the Amish hoping to prove that they were infected because they had not vaccinated.

They found the opposite,that the source of the infestation was vaccines. Rather than herd immunity it was infection by the herd of people who were vaccinated against those who were traditionally free of the disease.

See also Maurice Helliman, who came out against the vaccines, even though he was largely the originator. He calls these infested shots the "bargain basement" of modern medicine.

Vaccines are a major cause of cancer: see The Cause for Cancer Revealed.

Hope that helps.

Vaccines.

When people give you the gears over your not wanting to vaccinate your children, just say:

"If vaccines do what they are supposed to do, then YOUR kids are protected, aren't they...so you have nothing to worry about!"

Isn't this fkng LOGICAL? What could these people be worried about - their kids are SAFE. Right? I mean "safe" in their own eyes. Not in reality, of course.

Yeah the kids came out

Yeah the kids came out fubarred because of the doctors and vaccines, right, I mean it couldn't possibly be all the cigarettes, booze and cocaine you snorted at Hef's mansion when you got knocked up, right?

The decline in many of these diseases came with iodization.

I remember iodized on milk cartons in the mid 1960s and iodated flour and of course iodized salt.

Most iodine has been removed from out diets since the 1980s.

Studies done in the last few years that 90% of the population is iodine deficient.

http://www.theiodineproject.webs.com/

Free includes debt-free!

Bump

bump video.

Sigh...

Free includes debt-free!

No.

"Herd immunity" is an urban legend, which sounds plausible, and is propaganda which is expected to be swallowed whole by the population, in order to pave the way for more pharmaceutical incursions into everyday society. The government approves because it can increase it's control over the population by passing laws and punishments for not adhering to the dictates.

The vaccines aren't working and the un-vaxed aren't to blame

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Out of Australia:

More kids' hospital doctors get whooping cough

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/18/3041031.htm

quote:

The hospital says the doctors have contracted the infection despite keeping their vaccinations up to date.

Dr Brian Wheatley, from the hospital, concedes vaccination is not always effective.

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Now, take a look at this mainstream article from ground-zero, San Diego:

Vaccinated People Getting Whooping Cough In SD

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/sep/07/vaccinated-people-getti...

SAN DIEGO — A KPBS investigation has raised questions about how effective the whooping cough vaccine is in preventing people from getting sick. Nearly two out of three people diagnosed with whooping cough in San Diego County this year, were fully immunized.

California is in the midst of the worst whooping cough epidemic in 50 years. Thirty six hundred people in the state have been diagnosed with the disease. Eight babies have died since January.

KPBS examined data from San Diego County’s Health and Human Services Agency. Of the 332 confirmed cases of whooping cough in the county so far this year, 197 of the people who got sick were up to date with their immunizations. That's nearly 2 out of 3 cases.

Dean Sidelinger is the county’s deputy health officer.

“It’s a little higher then we expected, but certainly we do still feel the vaccine provides protection and it’s an important health tool to try and prevent this disease.”

Research in the Netherlands suggests the bacterium which causes whooping cough, or pertussis, may be mutating and contributing to whooping cough outbreaks worldwide.

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From the vaccine place.com

HOW IS PERTUSSIS SPREAD?

http://www.adacel-locator.com/index.cfm?FA=protect%2Fadacel%...

* It is unknown whether immunizing adolescents and adults against pertussis will reduce the risk of transmission to infants. 3

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QUIT BLAMING THE UNVACCINATED !!!!!!

Besides, people who are vaccinated can STILL carry the disease - no matter what the disease - of which they have been vaccinated.

The little "unprotected" babies can STILL catch bugs from vaccinated people, whether it be measles, chicken pox, diptheria, mumps or whatever.

My advice - quit eating Count Chocula and drinking Cokes and breast feed your baby WHEN possible. Your health is VERY dependent on your behavior.

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www.vaclib.org

Agree.

Thx.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

If vaccines work

then those who got vaccinated have NOTHING to worry about . Just let me die please. I don't want your help to keep living in
"YOUR WORLD". "YOUR WORLD" SUCK-.NWO
Give me liberty or give me death.

those who got vaccinated have NOTHING to worry about.

Well.... Except people who don't get vaccinated serving as incubators for various diseases, allowing them to evolve to the point where they become infectious again to people who were vaccinated against previous strains of the disease.

When you make something extinct THEN you don't have to worry about vaccinating. These diseases aren't extinct.

Please do not conflate this logic with an endorsement of allowing the government to force you to get vaccinated. You shouldn't have to. Its just unfortunate that your perception of the facts has persuaded you that you shouldn't.

Ashland, Oregon should be a complete disease disaster...

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...if so-called "herd immunity" from vaccination was a reality.

CDC to Investigate Ashland, OR: Least Vaccinated City in US

http://ecochildsplay.com/2009/01/26/cdc-to-investigate-ashla...

More than one quarter of kindergartners in one school district and about two-thirds of students at two schools in Ashland, Oregon are not vaccinated.

Like many states, Oregonians can opt out of school required vaccinations by claiming religious exemption. Statewide, 3.7 percent of kindergartners were exempt in 2007; however in Ashland, 28.1 percent of kindergartners were not vaccinated making it the least vaccinated city in the US. The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) wants to know why.
In some schools and districts, the numbers of unvaccinated children are higher.

For 2007, 66.7 percent of students at Willow Wind Community Learning Center were exempt, while 65.9 percent of Siskiyou School students and 45.7 percent of John Muir Elementary students had exemptions, the department’s reports show.

The statistics are slightly misleading though. When parents decide to pick and chose vaccinations, as well as follow a different vaccination schedules, they are consider exempt by the state.

[social_buttons]

The CDC held a community meeting in Ashland to find out why parents were opting out of vaccinations. Parents who attended the meeting were paid $50 to talk about their worries over the risks of childhood vaccines. Ashland resident and parent Jennifer Margulis explains her concerns with required vaccines:

"I never questioned the efficacy or intelligence of doing vaccines until I was in the hospital with my newborn daughter and a doctor tried to get me to give her hepatitis B vaccine. Hepatitis B is a sexually transmitted disease. I knew I didn’t have hepatitis B. I knew my husband didn’t have it. I knew there was no way she would come in contact with anyone with hepatitis B."

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www.vaclib.org

reedr3v's picture

Good find

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The entire concept of herd immunity is a logical

disproof of the efficacy of vaccination in the first place.

According to this theory, if you don't vaccinate an overwhelming percent of the "herd" (as if children are mere cattle) then whomever you vaccinated is "at risk" which means any ONE vaccination is useless unless say 95% of everyone else is also vaccinated.

This is impossible to prove, and actually shows that any single vaccination has ZERO effect.

Thus if herd immunity is a prerequisite to any immunity of any consequence, then one need only make the decision to vaccinate based on the probability of such a large percentage of the population following suit.

Since it is easily demonstrated that no where NEAR 95% vaccinate, then herd immunity NEVER occurs according to the theory, and thus it is useless and an unjustified risk.

vaccines do not provide immunity

Read the label, most vaccines say they provide temporary immunity for 5 years...then its time to re-vaccinate. Cha-Ching $$.

Immunity is only gained from allowing the immune system to code its antibodies as a result of illness.

That provides lifelong immunity & good resistance to similar strains.

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"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon

It's not immunity.....it's disease suppression

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These diseases are disabled by vaccines and medicines from resolving themselves properly in our bodies.

Therefore, they are retained in our bodies, causing all sorts of auto-immune disorders/diseases/ailments.

The symptoms are suppressed, only to crop up as other problems.

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www.vaclib.org

Great Post.

You said it all.

I was happy up to the end.

#@%@ that..

"Those of us who don't vaccinate don't want to force our views on anyone - we just want to be left alone without being accused of spreading disease or FORCED to receive vaccinations."

No.. IF I HAVE REASONABLE PROOF YOU"RE ACTIVELY TRYING TO HURT MY CHILDREN FOR A PROFIT FOR BIG PHARMA AND TRYING TO FORCE ME BY GOVERNMENT MANDATE TO PUT POISON IN MY CHILD'S BODY THAT COULD HARM THEM THEN YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND PREPARE FOR MY VIEWS TO BE PUSHING BACK REAL HARD.

I'm all for removing the disclaimer at the end of your post.. Have some spine. I will be standing right there with you if need be.

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
-- Thomas Jefferson

I agree with you, actually...

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It's really not enough to just get out of THEIR way and be "left alone" any longer.

People need to get in their faces and demand that this holcaust stops.

Yes, these man-made serums have ZERO to do with health.

It'll be too late by then, but mankind will wake-up soon to find out that these megalomaniacs have extincted us all.

But, oh I know - we shouldn't stand in the way of "commerce" and "free enterprise".

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www.vaclib.org

Actually,

we shouldn't stand in the way of "commerce" and "free enterprise." It's just that when there's a federally mandated vaccination schedule (there's one for adults as well as children now, too) we're outside of the realm of the free market. If the free market can support them, the vaccinations should be available for everyone who wants them, they just shouldn't be imposed on anyone who doesn't want them. But I'm probably preaching to the choir here...

Montana only has 59% vaccination rate !

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Folks, where are the outbreaks in Montana?

I thought if the so-called "herd-immunty" falls below 90% that all hell breaks loose.

Apparently it ain't so.

MT health officials urge childhood vaccinations

http://www.kxlh.com/news/mt-health-officials-urge-childhood-...

Excerpts:

Posted: Jul 30, 2010 6:02 PM
Updated: Jul 30, 2010 9:09 PM

As we reported last weekend, Montana ranks last among the states when it comes childhood vaccinations, and it's a ranking that's drawing sharp criticism from some parents and area health officials.

Whatever the reason, health officials say the lack of Montana toddlers receiving their reccommended immunizations is a problem.

Kate Marone of the City-County Health Department noted, "Only 59% of children in Montana were receiving or had received the current vaccines. It's the lowest in the country."

Marone says vaccines have helped prevent a wide variety of illnesses over the past few decades including smallpox, measles, and mumps, and she notes that continuing the shot process is crucial to maintaining a handle on these diseases.

She explained, "When you have groups and pockets of populations who aren't fully protected, that's how these diseases can spread up again. They're devastating illnesses that have been around for a long time, and the fact that we can prevent them now means we should take every opportunity to do so."

PAY NO MIND TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN !!!!

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www.vaclib.org