Conspiracies
I don't believe the government carried out the attacks of 911. However, I've noticed a growing trend related to the popular concept of conspiracy theories. The stigma of being considered a conspiracy theorist can destroy a persons reputation.
First, let's look at the definition of conspiracy. Here's how wikipedia defines it: "A conspiracy theory usually attributes the ultimate cause of an event or chain of events (usually political, social, pop cultural or historical events), or the concealment of such causes from public knowledge, to a secret, and often deceptive plot by a cabal of powerful or influential people or organizations. Many conspiracy theories imply that major events in history have been dominated by conspirators who manipulate political happenings from behind the scenes.
Obviously, there are many true conspiracies taking place as we speak. In fact, let's take the NIE report as an example. How about lying about WMD to get us into war? What about the secretive Fed bank officials? What about secret prisons? These are no longer referred to as a "conspiracy", because they turned out to be correct. But they are conspiracies.
In fact, I think some of the most outspoken critics of "conspiracy theories" are often the crazy ones. Here's an example. Every time Ron Paul wins online or text polls, the msm suggests a conspiracy to slant the numbers by a handful of supporters. This is also related to internet support for Ron Paul. One of the most common fallacies that Ron Paul critics complain about, is their assertiveness online. They claim that there is a conspiracy of Ron Paul supporters secretly organizing to drum up support for Ron Paul and to spam everyone. There has been no evidence of this conspiracy theory, but many assume it's true.
We need to make people realize this important distinction. Accepting ideas without evidence, or ridiculing them without understanding, are closely related. Objectivity is our ultimate goal.
Please pass this along, as I'm curious what people think.
Alex
Conspiracies
Franlin Delano Roosevelt is often quoted " In politics nothing happens by accident. If it happens you can bet it was planned that way."
Conspiracies that are harmless happen all the time. For example a surprise birthday party or going away party at the office.
The political variety are the most dangerous and the most difficult to expose. Logic tells us that evil and mean nasty people conspire with others all the time to commit some sort of crime. People are sent to jail on charges relating to conspiracy to commit such and such a crime.
The difficulty in getting people like your neighbor to listen to the political variety may be the information you have. So it's important to have reliable and professional looking documentation not a bunch of photo copies that are crooked on the page stapled together in a sloppy manner. Use original material, but if you must photo copy bind your copies up in a professional looking binder.
the MSM no longer has a lock hold on the minds of the masses like they did before the advent of the internet so more people are willing to listen to logical explanations that there is something to conpiracy besides a theory. You must present the facts and not embellish them beyond the facts that are available.http://jbs.org/conspiracy
archtoplee
Conspiracies do exist
I prefer to deal with facts. And conspiracies do exist otherwise there wouldn’t be a word for it in the English language, nor would they be against the law. No matter how you look at 9/11 – the official story of otherwise – it was a conspiracy. But our propaganda wants us to think only Muslims, Nazis, Commies, etc. are involved in conspiracies; not Americans! No way!! We’re the GOOD guys.
about conspiracies
Conspiracies are ideas where you have to do your own fact checking and have the courage to believe in. Men fear the unknown. He knows if he steps out of the social norm he might be ostracized. He's afraid if he is labeled a conspiracy theorist he will be an outcast and no one wants to eat lunch with him. However, with your thirst to pursue the truth and to see things for what they are, conspiracies turn into truths that have been hidden from you. If you work hard in finding the truth, you can back up most conspiracies with evidence. For a clearer view on United States foreign policy and their implications, look no further than John Perkins who used to be an economic hit man (EHM) for the United States. These are two of his books for those interested.
Confessions of an Economic Hit Man (2005)
The Secret History of the American Empire: Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and the Truth about Global Corruption (2007)
Part 1 of 3
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oARBdBtGenM
Good Point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Also:
FOIA released documentation....these are not conspiracies but facts.
Operation Northwoods
Operation Paperclip
Operation Artichoke
Operation Gladio
The USS Liberty
Mazz
US Code Title 50-1520
USC Title 50 1520
You could talk to people
You could talk to people intill they are blue in the face,it does'nt matter ,some people are just living in denial, let it go...
"observe the masses,and do the opposite."
"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."
Jung
Carl Gustav Jung ..............you need to develop an imagination for evil. It's extremely difficult to wrap your mind around what we really face. Do your homework!
Mazz
US Code Title 50-1520
USC Title 50 1520
Very good
athompson4422, excellent post I thought.
Corporate conspiracies are fairly common actually, where a company or group of companies "conspire" to break the law in some way in order to maximize profits or hurt compeditors. The most common type of conspiracy is what they call the "wheel and hub", or "hub and spoke" type. It is called this because the conspiracy is structured like a wheel, with only a few people in the middle, or the "hub", who are involved in the planning and know what's really going on; while those actually carrying things out on the "spokes" do their part on a strict "need to know basis". In fact, those on the outer edges have no idea there is a conspiracy taking place and many times people involved aren't even aware they are breaking the law.
Think about it ... a conspiracy is nothing more than people who are morally challenged meeting behind closed doors to figure out ways to maximize profits - it happens all the time.
You have to ask yourself, why does the word "conspiracy" have so much baggage attached, why are people who discuss them immediately labelled as kooks? I live in Japan, where use of the term for "conspiracy" has no such negative connotations. The fact that, with the exception of a few sympathetic newscasters and pundits who would like to see an end to the unfairness and try to give Ron Paul a break, he is shunned by the mainstream media and on the debate circuit almost in concert. Nope, no conspiracy here folks !
The concerted effort (by concerted I mean "in concert") to marginalise Ron Paul in the media is an excellent example to ponder IMO. Because everyone in the media obviously didn't attend a "secret meeting" where it was decided to prevent him from becoming president. Of course not. I seriously doubt if journalists are even told directly to ignore him. This is accomplished in much more subtle ways, journalists notice that their supervisors and mentors are all focusing on Romney-Giuliani-McCain and ignoring Ron Paul while being on the recieving end of the same rationals the public is told regarding Pauls online poll numbers etc., and they get the message that reporting positively on the Ron Paul campaign is done at great risk to their own careers. No internal memos are even needed.
Thanks Rewind
It seems that even when irrational ideas come about, they sometimes take on a life of their own. They can live for a while, but in the end, the memes that correspond to reality will win and the irrational ideas will dissipate. This is the natural result of the evolutionary process of knowledge. Fortunately, truth is picking up steam, and there is a chance for a worldwide paradigm shift. Knowledge can no longer be destroyed in its entirety, outside of a major natural disaster, so the process will accelerate. Has anyone read "The Singularity is Near?"
I didn't say you're crazy at all....
What I said was this isn't the place for it. This is a forum to discuss topics which will enhance our candidates chances to win. This thread has absolutely nothing to add our chances. Take it to your IM if you like.
From what I have seen it is
From what I have seen it is a pretty good place for discussion of a multitude of topics which help to educate people, question their beliefs, and grow in knowledge. These things do help the campaign, that is what makes it unique.
Conspiracies are a fact of the world we live in, and understanding them (both how to recognize and analyze real ones, based on factual evidence, and how not to get sucked into meaningless drivel with twists of illogic, such as the notion of "poll-spamming" or "WMDs" ...cough...) is a very important skill to be developed for anyone interested in following current events and politics or studying history.
There are many threads here that do not interest me or that I do not think are worthwhile, but you know what? I respect people's freedom to discuss them without hounding them and trying to tell them what to do. Call it a non-interventionist internet policy.
I know the notion of liberty is not lost on you since you have opted to support Dr. Paul, so perhaps it would behoove you to make an effort to be a little more tolerant of other people's discussions and a little less authoritarian.
My $.02.
Cheers,
Ram
How about you just go to another topic?
I think understanding the logical contradictions of our opponents is important. If you don't, either tell me why with a reasoned argument, or go to another topic.
All, keep the following in mind
What is being suggested is that there is a small group within our government that is responsible for a lot of these so called conspiracies.
The Iraq invasion was rammed through by this group. This is one small thing that we can point to. McClatchey was investigating the Washington Post NYT, Fox hose job in the run up to the war. Read about it.
I will close with this. HR 1955 basically says that the president can identify you as a terrorist, arrest you, hold you indefinitely and then torture you.
You can now do a Google search enter"HR 1955"and show me all of the Fox, NYT, Tribune, Wash Post articles you get on the end of your and my civil protections. Yes you get dozens of articles and all of them are by independent media..you know? All the conspiracy freaks.
Seriously, NOT ONE MAJOR NEWS COMPANY IS REPORTING ON THIS. So, would you call the complete blackout on HR 1955 a conspiracy? I call it f%$#ing treason.
The independent media and 60,000,000 gun owners are the only thing between us and the camp.
Why do you think there are so many of us in this campaign who are on it so damn hard?
Best to all,
T
Unify
There isn't anything "crazy" about ...
... demanding the full disclosure from my "government".
... asking why buildings fell in a way that has never been experienced before outside of a controller demolition.
... asking why tower 7 was still standing when a BBC reporter read a report that it had fallen.
It's not crazy to seek the truth. It's not crazy to know you've been lied to. And it is most definitely not crazy to keep an open mind and ask how and why about things that just don't make sense or add up. Before you start saying people are crazy for having the audacity to doubt, check out this site: AE911Truth.org
___________________________
There's no sheep here, there's wolves here, questioning our nation's government.
Former United States Marine
Patriot
For Ron Paul
___________________________
There's no sheep here, there's wolves here, questioning our nation's government.
Former United States Marine
Patriot
For Ron Paul
Why don't you....
twerps get on your IM and discuss conspiracy theories amongst yourselves. I'm not one to say they aren't neat to think about, but this isn't the place. ty
Why don't you stop Ad Hominem attacks
Maybe you should read what I actually wrote' rather than resorting to insults. For the third time, I'm was not discussing particular conspiracy theories, I was pointing out a logical contradiction that many in the msm espouse. The reason this is important, is because there is a constant effort to discredit Ron Paul supporters for being crazy people. We need to fight back and point out the contradictions in their reasoning.
You're proving my point--just the mention of conspiracy has lead you to insult a fellow Ron Paul supporter without a valid reason. Or maybe you're just trolling....
1st Amendment
I agree....incredibly un-Paulian and an affront to anyone who would dare think outside the box.
Mazz
US Code Title 50-1520
USC Title 50 1520
Thanks Mazz
s
Greater weight of the evidence
The official 9/11 theory is ludicrous. That so many reasonable questions were neither addressed nor answered shifts the burden upon the government to show that it has clean hands.
The great weight of the evidence is in favor of conspiracy.
Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas
"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."
Famous Quote from Justice William O. Douglas
"The Constitution is not neutral.
It was designed to take the government
off the backs of people."
Theories and Conspiracies
A conspiracy is a plan by two or more to carry out something in secret.
A conspiracy theory is the accusation of such a plan.
And the truth is, the Federal Reserve exists and it's bad, regardless of how or why it was created!
So is the NAU. And the IRS. And the UN. All exist. All must be defeated.
that's the bottom line!
and I will say no more because when I start posting on these topics - the thread gets deleted!
Maybe it's a coincidence.
;-)
TEA PARTY 23 HRS AWAY!!!!!
Conspiracy and Conspiracy Theories
There are conspiracies and their are conspiracy theories. The Federal Reserve is the result of a conspiracy. Read the CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND. You will find that a hundred years ago, Americans were aware of what was called "The Money Trust", international bankers who created panics for their own benefit. The Federal Reserve was sold to the American people as a way to frustrate the Money Trust. In fact, it was introduced by Rhode Island Senator Nelson Aldrich, who married into the Rockefeller family. The Federal Reserve gave virtual control of our economy to the money trust.
NAFTA was a conspiracy. It was foisted on the American people by politicians who were bought and paid for by large corporations. NAFTA, we were assured, would create many new jobs. We can all see the result of NAFTA.
The conspiracy to disarm the American people has involved such ludicrous arguments as crime control, accident prevention, banning ammunition as a hazardous substance, the "Lautenberg Amendment" to prohibit firearms to anyone who has a misdemeanor conviction involving domestic violence, the Brady Bill, the "Assault Weapons" ban, and the frivolous law suits against firearms manufacturers. The real goal is civilian disarmament.
Now lets talk about conspiracy theories. I think I have heard them all. All they accomplish is to 1) take people out of the fight. People who should be fighting the real battles go off on tangents fighting imaginary conspiracies. 2) The destroy the credibility of the people who promote them. If you repeat whacko theories, nobody will take you seriously. So, stick to the real issues. Don't fall for the deception.
It is my belief that some of these conspiracy theories are started by our enemies. The best example I can think of is Global Warming. While we are going bankrupt, Americans are dying in an undeclared war, and we are losing our civil rights at home, millions of Americans are buying into the Global Warming propaganda. Forget Global Warming. Help expose the North American Union.
I can't say this strongly enough. Don't bring your own agenda to this campaign. Stick to the issues that Dr. Paul addresses. If you start pushing your own agenda, all you will succeed in doing is to alienate prospective Ron Paul supporters. Let Ron Paul chose the issues. Our job is to get his message out.
Just so you know....
My only agenda is truth. Like I said, I don't buy into all of the crazy conspiracy theories that are out there. I'm quite the skeptic. I was merely pointing out that the concept of a conspiracy is being muddled. The problem with this is that it makes people abhor any idea of conspiracy, regardless of its veracity, which makes it more likely people will go along with everything the government says. It's probably better to err on the side of distrust than trust, when it comes to the government.
Has been muddled for decades
Has been muddled for decades my friend. Since before I was born the term "conspiracy" has been uttered by those in positions of authority with contempt and shunned by the media as "fringe", to the effect that now when one hears the term, the next thing that pops into their mind is "theory".
Try an experiment on your friends. "What comes to you mind when I say the following word: conspiracy?" I'll wager 9 times out of 10 their answer is theory.
The net effect of course is a population that is all too willing to accept what they hear from Washington or the punditocracy as truth, and when those enlightened citizens label anything as a "conspiracy theory" the mind of most immediately shuts down, critical thinking goes out the door, and we accept, like sheep. Why? Fear of being ridiculed by others, fear of going against the grain and being an outside, etc... They know how we think, and they use it against us in this way. Check out a book by Edward Bernays' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays), the father of modern marketing and nephew to Sigmund Freud, called "Propaganda". It''s all in there.
Full text: http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html
I like to think the tide is turning with the free flow of information on the Internet. It allows common citizens to investigate and learn on their own. Sure, it does breed a lot of silly notions, but it is a far cry better than non-thinking drones.
Ram
Breathe
When people take a breath, they inspire.
When people release their breath, they expire.
When people breathe together, they conspire.
We are together in this people. Ron Paul all the way!
I believe..
Ayn Rand and Ron Paul.
Rand says A = A. In front of our face is the truth and behind there is nothing.
Dr. Paul says there is no conspiracies so to speak but conspiracy of ideas. The information is out if we only seek it.
Is that Twilight Zone music I hear?
Attend a Church of your choice this Saturday.
G_d bless
Attend a Church of your choice this Saturday.
G_d bless
Crazy people who howl at the
Crazy people who howl at the moon and claim that magical shape shifting reptiles run the world deserve that music. Sane, rational people seldom sink into those delusions. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
If that last sentence was familiar it should be; its from the Declaration of Independence. The truth is that this nation was declared with a listing of grievances which were connected, all in pursuit of the imposition of tyranny. Many people today would dismissively say that constitutes a "conspiracy theory" deserving of Twilight Zone music. Are you one of those people? Would you laugh at Jefferson, Adams and Franklin for their "crazy conspiracy theory"?
"Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -- Cicero
Yeah, but that Brit you
Yeah, but that Brit you allude to is entertaining as hell regardless of his delusions. ;)
You are right...
We need to do away with calling everyone crazy. Let's listen to each other, and investigate these things until everyone is satisfied that we have a real answer. We can't have everyone being paranoid in a free and open society.
The mainstream media is dead.