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What Would A Constitutional Military Look Like?

A Constitutional Military would call for far more than just an end of our overseas military bases.

A standing peacetime Army is unconstitutional, our Founding Fathers abhorred them and warned us not to keep them.

From Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution -

"To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy"

The Founders made a clear distinction there between an Army to be called up when needed and a full time Navy.

"I am for relying for internal defense on our militia solely till actual invasion, and for such a naval force only as may protect our coasts and harbors from such depredations as we have experienced; and not for a standing army in time of peace which may overawe the public sentiment; nor for a navy which, by its own expenses and the eternal wars in which it will implicate us, will grind us with public burthens and sink us under them." --Thomas Jefferson

“A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.” - James Madison, Father of the Constitution

What would a Constitutional military look like?

End the branch I myself served in, the Army and the Army Reserves. Save the Ranger battalions, Special Forces, and Delta units and their respective support units from the chopping block, because warfare has changed since the days of flintlocks and block formations. They would from then on serve as U.S. Marines. The Department of the Navy, which oversees both the Marine Corps and the Navy, is the only professional time of peace force the Constitution allows for.

End the Air Force, Air Force Reserves and the Air National Guard. Any planes that the Navy deem necessary to their new defensive mission will become Naval aircraft.

An end of The Militia Act of 1903 would return control of the National Guard to the States, and each State would have a choice of keeping the status quo of a paid force, returning to a militia or a hybrid of the two. My guess is most States would return to a militia or at least a hybrid when they also get to foot the bill again.

Guarding the coast would once again become the Navy’s job, and so the Coast Guard can go back to being the Revenue Cutter Service as originally established.

This would leave us with the Navy, Navy Reserves and “the Navy’s Infantry,” the Marines and Marine Reserves, plenty of firepower to keep any enemy at bay. Reduction of those forces to reflect a defensive mission would follow. Letters of Marque and Reprisal would fill any gaps in Federal military capabilities.

Our debt is currently our biggest national security risk, and we have to cut back everywhere. Returning to the Constitution will show us the way.

"There shall be no standing army but in time of actual war." -Thomas Jefferson

“Interventionism opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.'' - George Washington



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It would look like this:

http://newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin16.htm

This is an eight part series. He has several other articles on the same topic. (and excellent articles on monetary reform) He is also putting out a new book on the subject.

Click under his picture once you get to the article for his other writings on that site.

Palestine had no standing military -- Look what the Israelis

did to them in just 6 days.

Pillaged and Pushed-Out the Egyptians and Syrians too.

You didn't read

What I wrote if you think I'm suggesting we get rid of our standing military in it's entirety..

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Those who still think WW2

Was a war we needed to fight might want to read this article - http://mises.org/daily/6312/FDRs-Pacific-War-Before-Pearl-Ha...

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Not sure that you would

Not sure that you would really need to cut the air force, completely anyway. In reality, the airforce's core strength is largely as a support role. Yes, it does include missiles and the like, but a large number of craft are for supporting roles. You mentioned it already, but I would go more with pairing the navy and the airforce instead of merging completely.

To climb the mountain, you must believe you can.

If it's not in the Constitution,

It shouldn't be there in my book.

The Navy already has in it's fleet about 3,700 aircraft, and the Air Force is operating somewheres around 5,500 these days - I think we have Plenty to cut there if we'd start thinking Defense rather than Offense...

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Does the Air force really require an amendment?

I think it did start out under the navy and while I agree the primary duty of the military is defense of our borders I think a rapid reaction force such as marines and carrier group, an air force, and a nuclear deterrant need inclusion.

BUMP THIS!!!

Front page material!

Imagine trying to push that on the neo-cons. Not to mention the profiteers.

Anything is possible with the support of the people.

Has Ron Paul ever purposed anything similar to this?

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin

Susie 4 Liberty's picture

This topic doesn't have nearly enough UP votes!

Is an excellent discussion - on an incredibly important subject!

Susie 4 Liberty

Notwithstanding the

Notwithstanding the constitution, why exactly do the colonies need a military again when America doesn't have any enemies?

I am out of touch with most Americans precisely because I am not out of touch with reality.

We had enemies then...

And we've made enemies now. A common defense was the federalists biggest reason for foisting upon us the Constitution.

A need does exist for a defensive force, but we haven't had a purely defensive force in a long, long time.

Take away the standing Army and return the Navy to a defensive mission and let others war amongst themselves.

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What are America's actual defense needs?

The business of protecting Americans in America from external threats should be wider than just military defenses. It should include:

ABM's to thwart a salvo of ICBM's, to include defense shield against near off-coast missile launches,

Fighter jets to challenge/disable a bevy of heavy bombers,

Cargo/luggage screening to block ABC weapons from entering under guise of commerce or travel,

Border security and immigrant screening to prohibit entry of hostiles,

Cyber-defense to protect against massive cyber-attack,

Monitoring space for hazardous asteroids and developing means of neutralizing them (cooperating with other nations if possible),

Monitoring disease outbreaks for humans/livestock/crops and working to combat them (again cooperating with other nations),

There are many ways a hostile interest or a natural calamity could cripple our society due to our over-dependence on vast infrastructure and EMP-vulnerable technology. Strengthening American resiliency should be seen as a key need. A true defensive program would focus on hardening the electric grid, preserving older "dumb" technology, developing potable water storage capacity and vast food reserves, promoting on-site self-sufficient power, food production, water/waste recycling, medical supplies and know-how, personal hard money reserves, and certainly not least, ARMING THE POPULACE. Such a program would also overhaul our monetary system and policies to avoid ruinous economic collapse.

One way to toughen American society would be to end federal disaster assistance. This giveaway program is a huge disincentive to appropriate risk assessment and construction technique. Without it, lenders would require realistic insurance coverage that would prohibit much flood plain development or flimsy "normal" construction standards for areas prone to hurricanes and earthquakes.

Likewise, transfer payments to those who are unproductive enable a mindset of survival idiocy to exist. Federal and state welfare should be ended for our own good as a society.

As you can see, I don't agree with the notion of a clean division of labor. Each of us is ultimately responsible for our own protection and survival. Government, no matter how powerful and efficient, cannot halt every threat at our shores. Every American must prepare to step in where the government has failed.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Bump,

bump, bump...

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond
BAN ELECTRONIC VOTING!!

Article 4 - Militias, Firearms, and the 2nd Amendment

Here are the instructions to Congress and instructions to the Several Sovereign States:

http://articlesoffreedom.us/TOC/Article4MilitiasRKBA.aspx

Keep in mind the Articles of Freedom were served on each and every elected servant on and after April 19 2010.

I teach this to my HS

I teach this to my HS government class. I am glad you posted this breakdown of a constitutional military.

And they haven't run you out

of the classroom? Wow! Wish I'd had a HS teacher like you!

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It would look like "circles" of tanks ...

one around the white house...and another around the pentagon !!!

Discover Costa Rica

smart comment indeed

round em up...

I saw your

mustache you were sporting during your service in the army. It was in your facebook pics. I sent you a friend request.

Good post btw.. I agree.

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
-- Thomas Jefferson

That stache..hehehe

It threatened to take over my face!

and thanks!

where are you rftbunny? I thought you told me I'd be in a very small minority on this one?

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Remember the responsibility

The route to a constitutional army is widespread involvement in constitutional militia. Do not be afraid. Organize and educate.

I think your right Zak

I just posted a thread about Sweden ending compulsory military but they are going to let the people join Nato military. Hmmm, something about that concerns me.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

I found a few more relevant quotes....

“The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home.” - James Madison

“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people.... [There is also an] inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and ... degeneracy of manners and of morals.... No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.” - James Madison

“Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.” - Henry St. George Tucker

“ that the people have a Right to bear Arms for the Defence of the State, and as Standing Armies in Time of Peace are dangerous to Liberty, they ought not to be kept up, and that the military should be kept under strict Subordination to, and governed by the Civil Power.” - North Carolina’s Declaration of Rights (1776)

"The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so." --Thomas Jefferson

"Bonaparte... transferred the destinies of the republic from the civil to the military arm. Some will use this as a lesson against the practicability of republican government. I read it as a lesson against the danger of standing armies." --Thomas Jefferson

"Every rational citizen must wish to see an effective instrument of coercion, and should fear to see it on any other element than the water. A naval force can never endanger our liberties, nor occasion bloodshed; a land force would do both." --Thomas Jefferson

"None but an armed nation can dispense with a standing army. To keep ours armed and disciplined is therefore at all times important, but especially so at a moment when rights the most essential to our welfare have been violated." --Thomas Jefferson

"It is more a subject of joy that we have so few of the desperate characters which compose modern regular armies. But it proves more forcibly the necessity of obliging every citizen to be a soldier; this was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free State. Where there is no oppression there can be no pauper hirelings." --Thomas Jefferson

Guess I was one of Jefferson's "pauper hirelings" - Doing what I can to make up for my past wrongs now.

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Here's another quote

"I abominate and detest the idea of a government, where there is a standing army." - George Mason

Thanks!

And from "Brutus" of the anti-federalist papers -

"It might be here shown, that the power of the federal legislative, to raise and support armies at pleasure, as well in peace as in war, and their controul over the militia, tend, not only to a consolidation of the government, but the destruction of liberty."

"In despotic governments, as well as in all the monarchies of Europe, standing armies are kept up to execute the commands of the prince or the magistrate, and are employed for this purpose when occasion requires: But they have always proved the destruction of liberty, and [as] abhorrent to the spirit of a free republic. In England, where they depend upon the parliament for their annual support, they have always been complained of as oppressive and unconstitutional, and are seldom employed in executing of the laws; never except on extraordinary occasions, and then under the direction of a civil magistrate."

"A free republic will never keep a standing army to execute its laws. It must depend upon the support of its citizens. But when a government is to receive its support from the aid of the citizens, it must be so constructed as to have the confidence, respect, and affection of the people. Men who, upon the call of the magistrate, offer themselves to execute the laws, are influenced to do it either by affection to the government, or from fear; where a standing army is at hand to punish offenders, every man is actuated by the latter principle, and therefore, when the magistrate casts, will obey: but, where this is not the case, the government must rest for its support upon the confidence and respect which the people have for their government and laws."

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From Cato’s Letters--which

From Cato’s Letters--which were very popular in the colonies. Here are a few:

"Standing armies are standing curses in every country under the sun, where they are more powerful than the people."

"It is certain, that all parts of Europe which are enslaved, have been enslaved by armies; and it is absolutely impossible, that any nation which keeps them amongst themselves can long preserve their liberties; nor can any nation perfectly lose their liberties who are without such guests: And yet, though all men see this, and at times confess it, yet all have joined in their turns, to bring this heavy evil upon themselves and their country."

"Great empires cannot subsist without great armies, and liberty cannot subsist with them. As armies long kept up, and grown part of the government, will soon engross the whole government, and can never be disbanded; so liberty long lost, can never be recovered. Is not this an awful lesson to free states, to be vigilant against a dreadful condition, which has no remedy."

"When, in King William’s reign, the question was in debate, Whether England should be ruled by standing armies? The argument commonly used by some, who had the presumption to call themselves Whigs, and owned in the Ballancing Letter (supposed to be written by one who gave the word to all the rest), was, that all governments must have their periods one time or other, and when that time came, all endeavours to preserve liberty were fruitless; and shrewd hints were given in that letter, that England was reduced to such a condition; that our corruptions were so great, and the dissatisfaction of the people was so general, that the publick safety could not be preserved, but by increasing the power of the crown: And this argument was used by those shameless men, who had caused all that corruption, and all that dissatisfaction."

BTW, I would say our paramilitary police force is the true standing army now.

malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium

I am an aristocrat. I love liberty; I hate equality. - John Randolph of Roanoke

Judge Andrew Napolitano AGREES!

On Today's Freedom Watch, the last segment:
The FOUNDERS were AGAINST the premise of a Standing Army!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHG8eGwsh9w

Along with Dr.Edwin Vieira, The Judge, is one of the BEST, most UNAPOLOGETICALLY CONSTITUTIONAL legal scholar within OUR brain trust. Imagine... a Ron Paul admin, and CHIEF Justice Andrew Napolitano. IF that were to happen, it would at least, the first time since FDR packed the SCOTUS with his Statist Collectivists, that we'd finally have a REAL Checks and Balances, at least from the Judiciary, which has been SORELY LACKING, to the point of being NON-EXISTENT

YEARS ago, in my naivete, I actually thought the SCOTUS were the least offensive State mechanism, and were somewhat objectively fair, until came Bush v.Gore, and DECLARED that basically Judicial Precedence, THE FOUNDING BASIS for ALL of American jurisprudence and built on YEARS on years of legal opinions, basically went out the window, when they EMPHATICALLY proclaimed that the Bush v.Gore decision would ONLY APPLY in that case, and NO OTHER CASE that follows, after. They decided so, BECAUSE THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING WERE WRONG. PERIOD.

That was my personal, last vestige of what little faith I never had in the State, to begin with. However, after that, I just had to acknowledge, ALL gvt = TYRANNY. They just all vary by a few degrees.

r3VOLution!!!

Awesome!

Thanks for sharing that Bleu!

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quite welcome!

hopefully this message of a necessity for a strictly Constitutional Military, spreads far and wide as next leg of topics, along with Auditing the Fed, RECALLing our imperial forces from overseas, nullification, 2nd Amendment restoration projects such as guns and acc. mfg. within a State WILL NOT be subject to ANY Federal gunlaws, etc.

Constitutional Military is a worthy goal to pursue, lest as the Doc says, when the dollar crash occurs, we'd be forced to reduce the size of all imperial projects; it's always better to do it voluntarily than to be forced to downsize chaotically in a rush.

I'm pushing...

John Dennis to bring this up and use it in his platform :)

His district is the perfect audience for this.

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