Ron Paul's Views on Immigration. Do you agree or disagree?
Ron Paul on Border Security and Immigration.
From Ron Paul.com:
A nation without borders is no nation at all. After decades of misguided policies America has now become a free-for-all. Our leaders betrayed the middle class which is forced to compete with welfare-receiving illegal immigrants who will work for almost anything, just because the standards in their home countries are even lower.
If these policies are not reversed, the future is grim. A poor, dependent and divided population is much easier to rule than a nation of self-confident individuals who can make a living on their own and who share the traditions and values that this country was founded upon.
Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:
1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.
Do you agree or disagree? Please comment.
La Raza is only profitable in a Corporatist Society
...in a free-society they would be focused on sub-contracting, farming, entrepreneurialism, clean water and air.
As are the rest of us.
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Agree.
Regarding some of the comments below about "ending the welfare" and "stopping the drug war" as "the solution", I think that is part of it, but not all of it.
As long as there is a significant disparity of standards of living between here and Mexico, there will be a contingent of criminals who realize it is more profitable to steal from richer people than poorer people. And to do many other types of crimes, for a variety of reasons.
So, this puts a big wet blanket on the concept that ending welfare and the drug war will solve the problems created by border jumpers. There is a HUGE crime problem of MASSIVE proportion related to illegals in the US, which are violent crimes and property crimes, that will not be solved by ending welfare or ending the drug war.
The problems are much deeper than that.
Of course, ending welfare and the drug war are fine. I'm all for that. But it isn't going to stop the border jumper problem. Might slow it down some.
Very well stated BigT
There are many factors involved but I think that the root of the problem starts in Mexico with the corruption and the willingness to accept the corruption.
If they were strong enough to decide to fix the corruption I would volunteer my time and resources to help them fix their own country.
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Russia Iron Curtain
Some people never learn from history. A wall that's good enough to keep people out will also be good enough to keep people in.
A Constitution without a nation is no Constitution at all...
All of this anarchist drivel about open borders is either incredibly naive or intentionally subversive to our effort to restore Constitutional government in America.
It is also completely unnecessary since destroying the borders (and the sovereignty) of the U.S.A. is already well underway and remains at the top of the political insiders' strategy.
Why all of this support for the agenda of George Bush, Karl Rove, John McCain, Barack Obama, etc. on a site dedicated to Ron Paul?
Why this effort to persuade the readers of Daily Paul to marginalize themselves even more by opposing one of the most popular issues among Independents, Republicans and even a substantial number of Democrats?
Could it be that the moles realize that illegal immigration is THE issue that could finally unify us with our natural political allies?
THAT is the REAL question raised by this thread.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive."
"Why this effort to persuade
"Why this effort to persuade the readers of Daily Paul to marginalize themselves even more by opposing one of the most popular issues among Independents, Republicans and even a substantial number of Democrats?"
AMEN. WHYYYYY!
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La Raza
Maybe I am a bit naive, but the National Council of La Raza's homepage is quite an interesting read. Maybe there are some lessons to be learned on what the Latino community wants. I didn't read anything about amnesty, but I could see a few key words and organizations that make my eyes open a bit. I don't experience any of there influence on the east coast, but maybe they could be a group that would do well with Libertarian type views.
http://www.nclr.org/
am trying BMT
La Raza is quite open in LA...and I do mix and mingle...
finding far more acceptance of Libertarian principles than one might imagine...
certain of the La Raza were the first to openly cry "fascism"....in Los Angeles editorials
and to start calling out the phony duopoly...
much to the chagrin of the "limo liberals" and "rhinestone rhinos" who are far more invested in LA LA land
cee cee
good to hear. Honest
good to hear. Honest discussion about the issues I feel will build bridges better then partisan bickering and soundbite news warfare.
You cannot put troops on the border 'till you end the drug war
#1 How would the Military Industrial Complex and Supply Chain make profit without Foreign Wars?
---Hint it rhymes with "order card"..."buh..buh..buh order guh guh guh card"
#2 If you bypass #1 and put the soldiers there I want you to answer this question, "how do prisoners get drugs into the prisons?"
---Hint it sounds like "frizzin hard"..."prih..prih..prih 'zin guh guh guh hard"
It will be priced like curried gator but it will taste like chicken regardless.
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Birthright citizenship is based on the land
This connection keeps citizenship rooted in reality and geography. If you are for secure borders you understand this importance. The land defines us.
Citizenship based on the citizenship status of the parents would allow the government to define "Citizen."
What would be the requirements or hallmarks of a citizen? If I didn't have a SSN would my child be denied citizenship? What if there were other requirements that I might object to?
What if the father of the child is unknown or the child is born by anonymous donor and surrogate parents? How would you decide if the mother and father were of different nations? There would have to be a no man's land for all the babies without a country!
We don't need a bunch of newborns tied up in courts at the mercy of lawyers and government officials.
How about just ending the rules that allow parents and relatives privileges by association with the baby born in the USA? That seems like a better solution to me.
I agree except for borders.
I agree except for borders. If you end entitlement to illegals, and govt subsidies (which kill the price or their crops), you will end the incentive.
Then we can keep our border about as it as (or even less stuff), because they won't want to come here.
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Agree
Only thing I would add once you are put out of this country for breaking the law and you come back again, one year in prison unless you go through the proper way to come to this country. IMO
TheKingIsComing
Disagree.
Good. Nationalism is a parasitical ideology. Abolish the State.
Abolishing the State...while
Abolishing the State...while noble in its intent is naive in reality. Practically every nation on earth is comprised of people who share certain traits (i.e. physical or otherwise) and culture.
The people on this planet come in breeds and they are all equally intent on preserving their respective culture. Borders and nations are meant to preserve their cultures. Therefore, nation-states are an integral part of human existence as tribes were before the state.
This is just the way it is. Anarchists must come to accept this reality or you will continue to be mocked behind your back and sometimes in front.
NAFTA is the True Culprit
Besides that I do agree with Dr. Paul 100 % on all points.
____
"Take hold of the future or the future will take hold of you." -- Patrick Dixon
the source of illegal immigration is
corporatism in mexico which makes conditions unbearable. for example, by the time the farmers put a corn seed in the ground, water it, pull it out, then it already costs them more to grow it than to compete with deflated currency and labor to which we purchase corn from competitors in the name of "free trade"
as long as the fascists and corporatist believe corporations have greater power than people then mexicans will always seek shelter in a more economically stable america.
Did anyone look up the weaning of the word
BORDER ? This term is used for a good reason..Also,
Look up the meaning for POLICE..They are twisting the meanings of everything, so things can be used for evil instead of for Good..
It's the age of DECEPTION.
Good become evil & evil become good.
Better yet lookup the meaning of
Private property lines and boundaries.Mucho Importante.
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Don't agree with the Dr. on this issue
But he's from Texas and has the perspective of dealing with the effects of poor immigrants and the Mexican drug war spilling over the border. Ron knows that legalizing drugs of all kinds would kill the profit behind illegal drugs, but that may never happen because it would drastically shrink the need for police forces and huge, expanding budgets. I can't really fault him for his position, it's just that I don't agree.
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In what way exactly do you disagree
?
I believe in the traditional
I believe in the traditional Libertarian position: open borders.
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Do you believe in an open and
Do you believe in an open and accommodating immigration policy(Libertarian) or open, undefended borders with no screening whatsoever(Anarchist, Globalist) like we have today.
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Open and accommodating
and I disagree with premise that the border is currently "undefended" or anarchic.
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It is undefended but not
It is undefended but not anarchic. Yet, many "libertarians"(actually anarchists) continue to disparage efforts to build a fence or put troops on the border, which has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with security. Most right-thinking libertarians understand this, even an-cap Steve Kinsella.
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Two policy changes would put
Two policy changes would put us on the path toward a nearly invisible border security: An end to the so-called "drug war", and an end to the other wars now and in the future.
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I support both of those
I support both of those policy changes, but its not enough.
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Sure, the other thing that
Sure, the other thing that makes this country an attractive destination for illegal immigrants from ALL countries (not just Mexico, mind you) is the income disparity.
Get rid of the minimum wage.
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I am for getting rid of the
I am for getting rid of the minimum wage, but that will not solve the income disparity between the US and third world nations. Real wages in the US will fall as more immigrants are brought in. I don't know if there is anything to be done about that because the corporations will just outsource those jobs if immigration is further restricted.
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Opening the ground floor to
Opening the ground floor to wages as low as the market will bear would have a huge growth effect on our economy. Wages overall would be reduced, the dollar would buy more, and immigration would have a positive net effect. Remember, we have a whole lot of retiring Baby Boomers with no one to take care of them and there are fewer workers to replace our current workforce. We need the immigrants, whether people face up to it or not.
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