"Pat Tillman is not with 'God'..."

http://www.google.com.do/imgres?imgurl=http://twitchfilm.net...

Universal Soldier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohXsdbF-7jc

Universal Champion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1DGkjGOTWA

Universal Zombie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShJ8h7cEbE&feature=related

I began this thread with a comment noting the story of ' this family gives me hope'``````````````````````````````````````````````` ... for the undead.

" ... what's in your h````ead.~"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVxXr3HYVIA&feature=watch_res...

viva la` r'Evolution

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/139305#comment-1486578

... lie, cheat, steal, murder and CONSPIRE. What should we expect when our governments and military are being controlled by these very people?

Pat Tillman was most likely murdered because he was going to tell the truth as he saw it. He was a true patriot and bravely signed up for the "war" after 9/11. Pat was by all accounts a man of principle and honor. I feel horrible for his families loss.

And yet, the fraud that is 9/11 claimed another victim when he was murdered. Every U.S. soldier and every citizen of Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan are out and out murders and genocide on it's face. This is just more salt in the wound.

History will not be kind to our generation of Americans but I'm grateful for the Ron Paul Revolution and all of us standing together for peace, truth and justice.

I'm not mad at you; you are a true lover of Liberty. Your passion for the rights of the individual is apparent in your posts throughout this forum. Also, my "f*** you" comment was not emotional, but calculated; however, let me clarify, it is not directed at YOU - but at your ability to cavalierly denounce those who serve this country.

As the strangerr noted, they are victims in this too. As are the millions of innocent people who have been unjustly murdered by U.S. Foreign Policy. However, the proactive way forward is not to label our servicemen as murderers... but to educate them as well as our fellow countrymen to the merits of the principles of Liberty and free markets.

It is the policy that is wrong and needs to be addressed! Which is exactly what Tillman planned on doing upon arriving home as TexasLovesRonPaul link's suggest. Also, Tillman in hunting down the alleged perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks in Afghanistan was acting within is Constitutional Oath. Iraq... that's another story - which may have been exposed more openly had Tillman not been murdered.

There is no difference between the U.S. murdering innocent people and the Nazi's doing it, and I never claimed there was. Rothbard "For A New Liberty" ch. 2:

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The libertarian creed rests upon one central axiom: that no man or group of men may aggress against the person or property of anyone else. This may be called the "nonaggression axiom." "Aggression" is defined as the initiation of the use or threat of physical violence against the person or property of anyone else. Aggression is therefore synonymous with invasion.

If no man may aggress against another; if, in short, everyone has the absolute right to be "free" from aggression, then this at once implies that the libertarian stands foursquare for what are generally known as "civil liberties": the freedom to speak, publish, assemble, and to engage in such "victimless crimes" as pornography, sexual deviation, and prostitution (which the libertarian does not regard as "crimes" at all, since he defines a "crime" as violent invasion of someone else's person or property). Furthermore, he regards conscription as slavery on a massive scale. And since war, especially modern war, entails the mass slaughter of civilians, the libertarian regards such conflicts as mass murder and therefore totally illegitimate.

All of these positions are now considered "leftist" on the contemporary ideological scale. On the other hand, since the libertarian also opposes invasion of the rights of private property, this also means that he just [p. 24] as emphatically opposes government interference with property rights or with the free-market economy through controls, regulations, subsidies, or prohibitions. For if every individual has the right to his own property without having to suffer aggressive depredation, then he also has the right to give away his property (bequest and inheritance) and to exchange it for the property of others (free contract and the free market economy) without interference. The libertarian favors the right to unrestricted private property and free exchange; hence, a system of "laissez-faire capitalism."

In current terminology again, the libertarian position on property and economics would be called "extreme right wing." But the libertarian sees no inconsistency in being "leftist" on some issues and "rightist" on others. On the contrary, he sees his own position as virtually the only consistent one, consistent on behalf of the liberty of every individual. For how can the leftist be opposed to the violence of war and conscription while at the same time supporting the violence of taxation and government control? And how can the rightist trumpet his devotion to private property and free enterprise while at the same time favoring war, conscription, and the outlawing of noninvasive activities and practices that he deems immoral? And how can the rightist favor a free market while seeing nothing amiss in the vast subsidies, distortions, and unproductive inefficiencies involved in the military-industrial complex?

While opposing any and all private or group aggression against the rights of person and property, the libertarian sees that throughout history and into the present day, there has been one central, dominant, and overriding aggressor upon all of these rights: the State. In contrast to all other thinkers, left, right, or in-between, the libertarian refuses to give the State the moral sanction to commit actions that almost everyone agrees would be immoral, illegal, and criminal if committed by any person or group in society. The libertarian, in short, insists on applying the general moral law to everyone, and makes no special exemptions for any person or group. But if we look at the State naked, as it were, we see that it is universally allowed, and even encouraged, to commit all the acts which even nonlibertarians concede are reprehensible crimes. The State habitually commits mass murder, which it calls "war," or sometimes "suppression of subversion"; the State engages in enslavement into its military forces, which it calls "conscription"; and it lives and has its being in the practice of forcible theft, which it calls "taxation." The libertarian insists that whether or not such practices are supported by the majority of the population is not germane to their nature: that, regardless of popular sanction, War is Mass Murder, Conscription is [p. 25] Slavery, and Taxation is Robbery. The libertarian, in short, is almost completely the child in the fable, pointing out insistently that the emperor has no clothes.
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I recognize the emperor has no clothes; that murder is murder. I hope you recognize that there is only one way to remember Pat Tillman... as a hero. Upon learning and witnessing the truth... he and now his brother started taking the fight to the real criminals.

"The September 25, 2005, edition of the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper reported that Tillman held views which were critical of the Iraq war. According to Tillman's mother, a friend of Tillman had arranged a meeting with author Noam Chomsky, a prominent critic of American foreign and military policy, to take place after his return from Afghanistan. Chomsky has confirmed this."

a famous football player coming back from the war and criticizing foreign policy from a front line perspective would have been very damaging for the PTB

I’d be happy to offer a counter augment.

I’m sure your point is not lost on many of the readers here, even though they are no doubt disgusted by it. Your blanket condemnation of soldiers demonstrates a profound lack of understanding, and a compassion biased or non existent. Our soldiers are victims too. They bear no fault alone; the fault is as much ours for allowing them to be sent in the first place. Do you support the war? I do (whether I planned to or not) by paying income taxes, by taking what this society has to give, and in myriad other ways equally subtle.

Our young soldiers, like young soldiers from around the world, go to fight because they believe it is right; they go because they have courage. They may lack the years required to stumble upon all the information needed to protect oneself from every scam, to protect against the relentless barrage of Soviet style bullshit, but that is no proof of intent to harm the innocent. And for that you call Tillman a murderer, you call all soldiers murders? Perhaps we should call all soldiers insurgents and terrorists. Hell, why don’t you just call the pieces on the chess board murderers too – never mind board, the game, and those who make the moves.

You know the saddest part about your caustic perspective is that it’s aimed straight at an uncommonly brave young man who stood tall when he did discover a profound and ugly truth. This will be a documentary to see, a must see for the young. What exceptional folks to have the intellect and the guts to see this through; I salute Pat Tillman and his steadfast family.

is that someone can be so brainwashed and indoctrinated that they believe they are "defending the Constitution" by going to a country on the other side of the world and kill innocent people defending their "country". How would Pat Tillman like foreigners coming here and doing what he did? What would he have done. I feel sorry for him that he wasted his life try to murder foreigners who he was indoctrinated to believe had less value than his life.
He did not support the Constitution and no "soldier" does. The proof? He and those in the military take part in a un Constitutional war. They lie when they vow an oath to the Constitution. They are just swearing an oath to the current "dictator" in charge.

I guess I should not criticize because of Tillman's, and all "soldiers" indoctrination and irrationality, but if you go down that line of thinking than no one is guilty of anything. If you persue my line of thinking, then everyone is guilty of everything. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. Who knows? Have to think about it more.

Tillman can be a hero or a villain depending on the way you look at it.

I'm sure most here will not grasp what I'm saying and let emotion cloud there judgement. Just read what I wrote and offer a counter argument.

Otherwise, U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A!