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Weekend Watching: The Secret of Oz by Bill Still now FREE on YouTube!

The best, well-researched film on the history of money. A must see!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D22TlYA8F2E

Description:
What's going on with the world's economy? Foreclosures are everywhere, unemployment is skyrocketing - and this may only be the beginning. Could it be that solutions to the world's economic problems could have been embedded in the most beloved children's story of all time, "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz"? The yellow brick, the emerald city of Oz, even Dorothy's silver slippers (changed to ruby slippers for the movie version) were powerful symbols of author L. Frank Baum's belief that the people - not the big banks -- should control the quantity of a nation's money. The bottom line: No More National Debt. All our money is created out of debt. But nations don't have to borrow money from banks. Sovereign nations can create their own money -- debt free -- just as Abraham Lincoln did.




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SO who do you trust

to issue your gold currency ?

Republicae's picture

Despite all the efforts of

Despite all the efforts of governments to substitute irredeemable paper, they have failed to demonetize gold even though it is not used as legal tender, it still is recognized as money. That is a strange fact considering the immense pressure that has been placed on society by governments to erase the monetary value from gold. In the most widest analysis, and indeed in the last analysis, neither men nor governments for that matter, will actually trust anything other than gold as a hedge against economic collapse.

Unlike Fiat Money, notes issued by government, gold needs no endorsements or coercion to be used as money and valued in exchange. Fiat money of any kind always must be forced upon the population, introduced by stealth into circulation by governments who desire to manipulate the power of monetary economics and eventually siphon off the wealth of the productive population. Unlike Fiat Dollars, gold money does not even have to have a government stamp upon it, it does not require legal tender laws or to lay taxation to enforce its use. Gold money does not require the full faith and credit of a government to make it money or to influence the use of it in an economy, there is therefore no compulsion required when gold money is in circulation, it is a desired commodity, whether it is in the form of money or any other form.

Unlike gold money, fiat money is accepted as money as long as there is faith in the government of issue and in the stability of the purchase value of the fiat money itself, the problem, of course, is that eventually the depreciation becomes evident through price inflation, people see their hard labors wasted on a form of money that no longer holds the same value as it did just a few years prior. Additionally, fiat money must rest upon the expectation that the promises made by the government of issue will be kept, once that expectation dwindles through the various foibles of a government that abuses the power of fiat monetary creation, such as the massive deficit spending that usually accompanies all fiat currency regimes, then the currency suffers and people search out other forms of value, particularly gold. History has proven this fact time and time again since at least 20 B.C., fiat monetary economies always end the same way, collapse.

It is indeed a very strange psychological occurrence among peoples and governments who are subjected to long established fiat regimes, it tends to make them unwilling to view their irredeemable fiat paper money as anything other than what that fiat paper money really is, nothing more than dishonored promissory notes that can never actually be redeemed because the promises of the issuing government always become far too extended for such a redemption. It is strange that people seem to think that government authority and laws can create something out of nothing and call it money, it is this undeserved faith, this belief system that allows fiat money to sustain a degree of value as money, but that too ends when the inflated supply of the fiat regime depreciates the purchase value of the currency and such faith is destroyed.

The degree and depth of faith necessary in government issued fiat money is comparable to the faith necessary in religion, for what else could account for the fact that when people see a piece of paper with the numerals $100 printed on it, that they view it as more valuable as the same piece of paper that simply has $1 printed on it. The ruse is complete, the deception is extensive and the faith that has been built around the fiat monetary system must be of the utmost dedication. The Fiat God commands total faith and allegiance! Talk about idolatry, gold makes no such commands of faith, it is its own promise of payment, it requires no government seal of approval or legal tender laws to enforce or coerce its usage as money.

Unlike fiat money, the issuance of gold is simply a utility for government, a Constitutional responsibility. The government is taken out of the equation of both the supply and the manipulation of the value. All the government need do is mint the coinage and release it into circulation and get out of the way, the market will do the rest.

Read Madison's Notes on the Debates.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

I just watched "Secrets of

I just watched "Secrets of Oz" and was wondering about the use of gold to back the currency. It championed the cause of govt. issueing debt free currency, but warned that a gold backed currency will quickly be at the mercy of the money masters. Can anybody dispute this? Is silver the only answer? Maybe we could use "tally sticks". What an awesome movie!

Bill Still is confused.

He wants to replace a government operated monetary system with another government operated monetary system.

The Fed is not government.

The Fed is not government.

Republicae's picture

The Federal Reserve is not a

Contrary to the popular myths floating around the web, including the ones Bill Still promotes in an obvious role as a Fiat State infiltrator, The Federal Reserve is not a private company, nor is it owned by large commercial banks, nor does it operate for the sole benefit and greed of its stockholders, at least not the ones commonly thought of here and on the web.

Would you not say that the "owner" of a company or agency would get the most money out of the earnings of that company or agency? That is the common definition of ownership, the owner benefits from the bulk of the proceeds. The truth is that the U.S. Government receives the bulk of the earnings generated by the Federal Reserve Banking Systems, the minority ownership of the large commercial banks get a an extremely small return on their stake, in fact, less than 6% since out of the 6% mandated by the Federal Reserve Act is a gross return, all overhead must be paid out of that 6% before the dividends are paid to the banks that hold that very minor stake in the Federal Reserve. While it makes a good myth on the Internet, the facts are verifiable when it comes to the actual money paid to the majority stakeholder, i.e. the U.S. Government and the minor stakeholders, i.e. the various commercial banks.

To be honest with you, I find that just as offensive as if the Federal Reserve was solely owned by private commercial banks, if not more so. For too long many people have almost given the government a position of innocence when it comes to the Federal Reserve, but the truth is that the Federal Reserve acts on behalf of this government, for its benefit and for its ever-expanding power. The true stakeholder in the Federal Reserve is indeed the U.S. Government for without the FED there would a very different type of government in this country, one much more contained and manageable, one that was much more concerned by the Will of the People. The Federal Reserve and the Fiat Monetary Systems make it all possible.

Now, that being said, we then must consider the part private member banks play in the whole scheme of things as they revolve around the government created, government chartered and yes, government controlled Federal Reserve System and yes, the government uses bankers or quasi-banker agents to maintain the system, they are in fact nothing more than government bureaucrats. The FED, being the lapdog of the government, provides the government with all the instruments of banking without the common restrictions of banking, but it also includes in this system a vital corporate strata composed of the member banks, which insert themselves into the fiat monetary scheme through fractional reserve banking fraud. This monopoly power belongs to the government, but is administered through the Federal Reserve System. Even Federal Reserve Notes signify the ownership and authority of that ownership, which is the Seal of the U.S. Treasury and the Secretary of the Treasury's signature. The fact is that the U.S. Government is the actual beneficiary of the creation, the operations and, in particular, the secrecy of the Federal Reserve. Without the Federal Reserve and the fiat currency forced upon this country by the government legal tender laws, this government could not function because it would no way for it to tax the People, the Federal Reserve System allows the government to bypass the heavy burden of taxation that would be necessary to sustain the government at such a massive scale. The Federal Reserve and the fiat monetary system prevent revolt, among other things.

So, enter the privately owned member banks, there was a transition, which took about 67 years to move all private banks from a system outside the Federal Government authority to inside the Federal Government’s authority. This created a corporatist system of banking, integrating those banks, particularly State banks, into an umbrella system. The invitation to those private banks was by coercion rather than voluntary consent. Essentially, the government invited the private banks to join the system, become chartered under the system or face undue hardship and regulation to remain outside the system. By 1980, and the introduction of the Monetary Control Act, all U.S. Deposit Institutions were brought under the authority of the Governments Federal Reserve Banking System.

Because of the special authority granted by this government to its agency called the Federal Reserve, along with its evil twin sister the IRS, there is an absolute immense amount of wealth directed or redirected into the accounts of banks, all under the guise of managing the economy, controlling interest rates. The ability to control the money supply is one of the most powerful of forces utilized by government, it provides for the redistribution of wealth from a population unaware of the mechanics of the system, hidden behind the face value of its fiat currency, wealth from the productive members of society, working hard for their wages are oblivious that it is not the face value, but the purchase value of a currency that is meaningful. Thus, through inflationary depreciation the People have been suckered into thinking that there are making more money per hour just because they have more dollars showing on their weekly paychecks.

The banks, with the support of the non-productive monopoly created by government, siphon off the cream of wealth from the People of the country. It utterly denies the potential of wealth building to the majority of the People by funneling production through the fiat monetary system and the Socially Owned [government] Banking known as the Federal Reserve Banking System. It is a form of corporatism that is rarely considered because we have grown accustom to the wide-spread idea, and a convenient one it is, that the Federal Reserve is owned by the big bad private banking corporations, but the truth is much more horrifying because it is our own U.S. Government that is actually perpetrating this fraud upon us. That fact does not deny the capability of the large banking corporations; they are, in fact, partners in this criminal act. It is all a license to steal, to steal the fruit of our labors and the possibility of a prosperous future for our own posterity, as well as the welfare of this country as a whole.

I realize this is not the commonly held opinion and to be honest at one time I held the same opinion, but upon further research I reached a conclusion that is far more disturbing: our government is intent on subjecting us through a system of fiat peonage, using a system that began during the Lincoln Administration, but came to fruition in 1913. We have been systematically nailed to the wall and stretched out to dry by our own government and its agents of corruption.

All one need do is look at the money trail, it is easy to research and the money trail ends in the U.S. Treasury, not in any of the commercial banks. Even the Federal Reserve Act gives the amount of dividends paid to the minor stakeholders. You can find the amount of earnings and distributions in many Congressional Reports, in the GAO and even in other independent sources which track government monies. You will not find any source that will show the mass of earnings going to any other recipient other than the U.S. Treasury. To be sure, the member banks do greatly benefit from the arrangement, but not directly from the Federal Reserve Banking System, the direct beneficiary is the U.S. Government.

As far as Eustace Mullins is concerned, I have a number of problems with his "factual" information, as well as his political background. While I understand his popularity, as well as others who promote the now commonly held opinion about the private ownership of the Federal Reserve, I prefer a far more substantial view based upon facts rather than popularity. Let's face it, everyone loves a conspiracy, but we must concern ourselves with factual information about such conspiracies otherwise, as we see even here on the DP, people will divert themselves to disregard facts, even those staring them in the fact, for less accurate information and sometimes for misleading information.

If you can show me the money trail leading from the Federal Reserve earnings to those private banks I will be more than happy to research the matter, but thus far I have yet to find a direct infusion of the majority of earnings from the FED to those minority stakeholders and I have done a heap of research on the subject. Regardless, the Federal Reserve System is an enormous fraudulent system, created, promoted and primarily benefiting the Federal Government and it is managed, to a large degree, by private banking agents, but they are all on the payroll of the Government. The various minority owners of the Federal Reserve are just that minority owners, vital for its fraudulent functions, but still minorities in the actual ownership and control of the system...the real culprit is our own government, which, by any man's standard should cause a huge amount of indignation.

In Section 7 of the Federal Reserve Act, subsection 1A states:

After all necessary expenses of a Federal reserve bank have been paid or provided for, the stockholders of the bank shall be entitled to receive an annual dividend of 6 percent on paid-in capital stock.

The entitlement to dividends under subparagraph (A) shall be cumulative.
That portion of net earnings of each Federal Reserve Bank which remains after dividend claims under subparagraph (1)(A) have been fully met shall be deposited in the surplus fund of the bank.

Section 7 (1)(B): The Federal reserve banks shall transfer from the surplus funds of such banks to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for transfer to the Secretary of the Treasury for deposit in the general fund of the Treasury.

Interesting enough, the law stipulates a small portion of Federal Reserve stock may be available for sale to the banking public, however, there is a catch in the law which states that NO ORGANIZATION may own more than $25,000 of such public stock in the Federal Reserve and none of those shares carry voting rights.

Additionally, it would appear that there have been several occasions where the Federal Reserve has gone against some of those which many claim to be major stockholders, if the Federal Reserve and its monetary policies were indeed under the control of such stockholders then why on earth would the FED take certain steps that would preclude or hinder the operations of some of those so-called major stockholders in favor of a political position of the government? The fact that the Federal Reserve has acted at times on political “instructions” rather than that which would be favorable to the large commercial banks, such is an indication of ownership, but not by the large commercial banking houses or the families which are the majority stockholders in such banking houses, but the true owner: The Federal Government. The convergence of benefits to both the government and the banks is easy money and easy credit, it boost the profits of the banks and transfers wealth and power to the government through inflationary depreciation of the fiat currency regime. It also makes for a much more palatable political atmosphere publicly since has, until recently, provided the consumer addiction with their monetary and credit fix.

In fact, the legal structure of the entire Federal Reserve System precludes private bankers from determining the monetary policy of the Federal Reserve, in other words it is impossible for such a determination to be made based on the structure of the decision-making process of the Federal Board of Governors.There are also restrictions to the number of actual bankers sitting on the Board of Governors, there is a quota system involved. Now, given that fact, we cannot, based upon that structure and the fact that the Federal Reserve is owned by the Federal Government, preclude the fact that there is political policy influence by private banking, but it is not, to be best of my knowledge and research, direct influence, rather it is indirect through Congress.

Now, while it is true that the Federal Reserve makes a huge amount of profits annually, the bulk, between 94 and 97% of the net earnings of the FED are paid to the Treasury [a fact that is easily verifiable]. That leaves a very few percentages to be parceled out to the “shareholders” based on their “capital stock” which, by law, is extremely limited, but still a great deal of money by any measure. January, 2010 report of the Treasury states that the preliminary earnings of the FED was approximately $52.1 Billion Dollars, after the prescribed expenses were paid, the transfer to the U.S. Government via the Treasury was $46.1 Billion Dollars. Now the question is how much does it cost the FED to operate? Well, based on the reports I’ve read it appears that it cost the FED approximately $3.4 Billion to operate in 2009, but it also paid approximately $2.2 Billion Dollars in interest to depository institutions. Thus out of the $52.1 Billion Dollars only $6 Billion remains, out of that comes $5.6 Billion Dollars in operating cost which includes interest paid to depository institutions. After that is paid then the 6% dividend is paid to the member banks of the 12 Federal Reserve Districts. Contrary to the many theories that promote the idea that private member banks or large banking houses are making huge profits from owning stock and controlling the Federal Reserve, they are not. 6% dividends on the member bank stockholdings are, by any standard, modest in terms of a rate of return. All one need do is look at the net earnings of the FED in excess of the dividends to see that the actual owner makes the profit and that owner is our very own federal government.

Another thing that is important to consider regarding the supposed ownership of the Federal Reserve by large commercial banking houses and that is the member banks themselves. In order to gain a consensus, there would need to be control over the boards of a majority of member banks, each of whom have individual stockholders with voting rights of their own regarding the operation of each of those member banks. Each of the 12 Federal Reserve Districts probably contain thousands of member banks, to even gain control over a majority of them would be a mathematical miracle to say the least, especially since each of those member banks may have hundreds of thousands of private individual stockholders. Essentially, if it were true about the large commercial banks owning the Federal Reserve then they would have to hand-pick every CEO and board of the member banks and then be able to completely sway the private individual stockholders of each of those banks to back their position, whether that position was in the best interest of the private stockholders or not.

That would be an impossible task, just as impossible as the idea that the Federal Reserve can actually maintain, control or manage the economy with over 300 Million individual players in the market making trillions of moment by moment economic decisions effecting their own individual lives. Another fact that must be considered is that it appears whatever power or influence the member banks have on the Federal Reserve is very narrowly prescribed in the Federal Reserve Act. Perhaps some of the most informative documentation on the Federal Reserve is the actual debates in Congress on the subject during 1913 when considering the Federal Reserve Act, in fact those debates are extremely revealing if one would take the time to study them. Read the Congressional Record, 63rd Congress, 1st session, I, 513-514, 5992-96.

There are therefore, several disconcerting discrepancies within several of the sources you cite, such as those from Eustace Mullins, Bill Still, Mike Montagne, Ellen Brown and others. I am surprised however, that some on this thread did not mention Gary Kah who also wrote a similar book about the supposed ownership of the Federal Reserve by banking powers, of course you would quickly see the differences in opinion between the two authors on such ownership. Kah states that it are and have been an almost completely different lists of so-called owners, they both can’t be right…perhaps because they are, more likely, wrong. The discrepancy of course can’t be more obvious if one just look into the matter and that is that there has never been any public stock issued by the Federal Reserve.

As Rothbard stated so aptly in his small work entitled The Case Against The FED:

“By far the most secret and least accountable OPERATION OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is not, as one might expect, the CIA or some other super-secret intelligence agency…It is little known, however, that there is a FEDERAL AGENCY that tops the others in secrecy by a country mile”

Of course, he is speaking about the Federal Reserve as that ultra-secret agency, that federal government operation. Indeed, that is exactly what it is, an agency of the government.

Strangely enough, back in 1993 there was a Democratic Chairman of the House Banking Committee named Henry Gonzalez who introduced a bill to audit the Federal Reserve, stranger still the bill was co-sponsored by none other than Barney Frank, pretty shocking. The Gonzalez/Frank Bill would require full independent audits of the FED and would include complete Congressional Control over the FED’s budget. Of course, it didn’t get far because the cry of the Pro-FED politicians was that it must remain “independent of politics”.

Rothbard continues with the following:

"Independent of politics" has a nice, neat ring to it, and has been a staple of proposals for bureaucratic intervention and power ever since the Progressive Era. Sweeping the streets; control of seaports; regulation of industry; providing social security; these and many other functions of government are held to be "too important" to be subject to the vagaries of political whims. But it is one thing to say that private, or market, activities should be free of government control, and "independent of politics" in that sense. But THESE ARE GOVERTNMENT AGENCIES AND OPERATIONS we are talking about, and to say that government should be "independent of politics" conveys very different implications. For government, unlike private industry on the market, is not accountable either to stockholders or consumers. Government can only be accountable to the public and to its representatives in the legislature; and if government becomes "independent of politics" it can only mean that that sphere of government becomes an absolute self-perpetuating oligarchy, account- able to no one and never subject to the public's ability to change its personnel or to "throw the rascals out." If no person or group, whether stockholders or voters, can displace a ruling elite, then such an elite becomes more suitable for a dictatorship than for an allegedly democratic country.”

Rothbard continues with some interesting questions that are extremely pertinent to the subject of the relationship that was intentionally formed between the Government Agency known as the Federal Reserve and the banking industry. In the reaction to the Gonzalez/Frank Bill the New York Times stated in its October 12, 1993 edition: “The Fed is already working behind the scenes to organize battalions of bankers to howl about efforts to politicize the central bank". To that Rothbard responds:

“True enough. But why should these "battalions of bankers" be so eager and willing to mobilize in behalf of the Fed's absolute control of the monetary and banking system? Why should bankers be so ready to defend a federal agency, which controls and regulates them, and virtually determines the operations of the banking system? Shouldn't private banks want to have some sort of check, some curb, upon their lord and master? Why should a regulated and controlled industry be so much in love with the unchecked power of their own FEDERAL CONTROLLER?”

Things to consider, don’t you think? Now while the idea that private banks own the Federal Reserve is horrifying, and a convenient scapegoat that takes the real responsibility off the government to a degree, the fact that our own Federal Government owns it is even more horrifying because it means that this government has perpetrated one of the greatest criminal frauds on the People of this country for the last 97 years.

In my opinion, the truth about the Federal Reserve is worst than the popular myths surrounding it. The system that now oppresses the People of this country cannot hit the bone yard quick enough!

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

youve missed it

The 60 billion "profit" is only the declared profit. The true profits are hidden from us and we will never know how much.

Also consider the fact that the billions in profits allow loans to be produced at a 20 to 1 capitalization producing more endless profits.

So while yes, they do return some of the profit to the treasury, it is a tiny amount of all they ways they profit by being the first issuers of currency

It is great that this film exposes some problems

But there is no real merit in exposing problems... People do it all of the time. what is important is the solution. The solutions presented in this film are absolute rubbish!

There is a way to test this...

But it requires alot of work, a lifetime of man hours.

Simply put, you make a virtual world/game. There are 3 continents, each with different resources (limited). Fixed banking systems in each, one debt based, one fiat non debt, one resource based gold etc.

But it has to be "REAL". You can only sell things for what people will buy it for because they need/want it. Period.

No game I've ever seen ever had a real economy. But if it were done right, we could test this and get a difinitive answer.

Republicae's picture

You cannot have a

You cannot have a fiat-non-debt based currency system since all fiat money, whether directly or indirectly interest bearing, is a liability. Fiat money is the liability of government whether interest is directly associated with its creation or not. Gold is a double asset, on both sides of the equation. Fiat money is a liability or double liability on both sides of the equation. Fiat money is, by its very character, a note that denotes a debt payment...it is an IOU since it has no asset value inherent within its character. Now, while it is assumed that the current system we suffer under is direct interest bearing, the fact is the the currency does not bear direct liability interest, only the Treasuries which back up the system, but each Federal Reserve Note does represent a legal notification of a debt obligation. Now, even if Congress were to issue fiat money directly, outside of the assistance of the Federal Reserve System, the effect would be the same...each of those notes, just like the Federal Reserve Notes, would be legal notifications of a debt obligation.

Just because you put some pretty words and pictures on a piece of paper does not make it actual asset money, the value of money is that it is an asset. The reason money arose from asset commodities is that it was recognized, in an of itself, as an actual asset, it contained value before it was used as money and that value was recognized. I know of no fiat currency in the history of the world that the same can be said.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

Short Summation

Congress cannot be trusted to resist the influence of central bankers, therefore Congress should reclaim their "authority" to print fiat currency, because only the Congress can be trusted to control "our" money.

West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

Republicae's picture

Exactly, fiat money of any

Exactly, fiat money of any sort, in the hands of government, is, as it has always been, a formula for redistribution of wealth and the creation of a productive serfdom of the People. There has never been a fiat currency that did not take everything from the People and place it into the hands of government and the politically connected elitist thieves. Yet, fools like Bill Still, Helen Brown and Mike Montagne seem to place faith in the virtue of politicians to be trusted with the power to make and control fiat money. Even the logic behind such faith is absurd!

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

Watch it again, Still is no fool

There is nothing preventing individuals from trading with gold, silver, or pinto beans in this model. But the currency used in broad commerce must be PLENTIFUL or people will be poor. That is not mysterious high finance... If there are only 100 dollar bills in existence, and that is the ONLY medium of exchange permitted, and there are 200 people in this society... there will be 100 destitute people no matter what they do. No one "trusts" anyone, but at least if Congress did it, we could vote them out if we did not like how much they printed.

Or maybe it is your personal wealth you are really worried about? Been socking away gold, don't want to miss your payday? No worries. The American citizenry will never get their brain around this. Soon you will be DELIGHTED to see "End the Fed" become a HUGE movement, so we can usher in the global "gold backed" currency all the "liberty lovers" have clamored for... Feel used yet? No, still feeling smug? We are ALL "controlled opposition" you know... The people who program the TV, write the text books, etc... they all framed the debate, and we all picked sides... Keep clamoring for a gold standard, your "victory" is at hand... Just remember that all those years of manipulation was time that banksters were hoarding like crazy. Did you get enough put back to be rich in THEIR gold economy?

Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.

Republicae's picture

Ah yes, the commonly held and

Ah yes, the commonly held and commonly promoted idea that the money supply must be PLENTIFUL. What a common misconception and, I might add, misunderstanding of the mechanics of money. The problem with fiat money is that it is beyond actual market influences for it rest within the political grasp of the federal government through its agency of the Federal Reserve. The idea that the supply of money must be plentiful is the promotion of fiat currency supporters, but it has little relationship to monetary and economic realities.

That fact was proven around 300 years ago by David Hume and later confirmed by Menger, Bohm-Bawerk, Bastiat, Mises, Rothbard and others. The problem with the idea that the money supply must be PLENTIFUL, is that who decides what is PLENTIFUL. Left to their own devices, governments will always seek to inflate a fiat money supply.

Hume proved that even if you doubled the amount of money in everyone’s “accounts” overnight, that the economic effects of the market would adjust the purchase value of that “extra, plentiful” supply of money and that the recipients of that supply would be no better off than before the supply was made more PLENTIFUL. It is called inflation.

There is a funny thing however about gold, since it is a unlike fiat money in just about every way, it is a commodity that has value and as a medium of exchange it retains a stable value better than any other form of money, since it is difficult to bring into production that too is a benefit. It is evident that stability in a country’s currency is vital to the economic well-being of that country. Also evident is the fact that such stability was prevalent for well over a hundred years, less a few where the government involved itself in an attempt to control the economics of this country. Inflation was almost flat for nearly 100 years, compare that to fiat currency and you can see that is not the case when it comes to fiat money, it is always subject to instability because it must be managed otherwise the system quickly falls apart. There has always been a correlation between fiat money and the rise in both inflation and debt accumulation, the same cannot be said of a gold monetary system free of government intervention. LOOK at the historical charts, which are available online and compare fiat money and gold inflationary trends, as well as debt accumulation trends under each system...it is evident which is stable and which is not.

So, given the choice between fiat money of any kind and gold money, I will gladly choose gold money any day. No Bill Still is no fool, he is an infiltrator, like Ellen Brown, Mike Montagne and others who would ask the People to consider trading one form of fiat oppression for yet another.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

Thank you Paul

You got the message. Andrew Jackson was not so dumb as to be fooled into a NEW standard that average people did not possess. He looked after the little people. Gold has been tried before and while it has it's attractive values it would not help the average person who does not own it before inflation of gold.
To change now would bbe a windfall for all gold holders while devistating the economy for the rest of us. The Federal reserve certainly needs to be abolished first then an economy can be manipulated fairly and equitably into a gold standard. Then all you have to worry about is who's fingers are on the National gold stockpile.

Republicae's picture

It is apparent that you don't

It is apparent that you don't know the meaning of property title, that is what gold provides to the average person. When you earn honest money [gold], which by the way is a double asset instead of a double liability or a simply legal notification of a debt obligation, that gold money is titled to you by virtue of its value as a commodity. Paper notes, without the backing of any asset value except the forced legal tender and tax laws, can never be titled money, it is always, without exception, the property of the issuing agency, which in our case is the federal government. The federal government cannot own the gold money once it is in circulation, nor are they capable of containing, manipulating its circulation thereby manipulating the rate of interest. A natural interest arises within the market as the circulation of specie money is exchanged, the time value of specie money, as well as the purchase value of specie money is not nearly susceptible to the influences of either government or corporations. Specie money lends itself not only to the free market much better than any other form of money, but it also protects the ability of people to gain wealth, and thus retain their private property rights.

Since the vast majority of gold is in the hands of private individuals, as well as private companies, there is no need to concern ourselves with the so-called "national stock-pile", once there is a restoration of specie money the demand will be met, as in all matters of the free market, with the supply. All the government need do is get out of the way, the market will do the rest.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

THE ONLY property title that is truely your's

is the labor you can perform. It's something they cannot take from you, EXCEPT by FORCE.
The only exception is your BODY./ HEALTHCARE. They can use and sell body parts.

Republicae's picture

So, you are saying that you

So, you are saying that you support the Labor Theory of Value....hmmm, so did Marx.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

If you want a currency that is not government backed then

your life and labor is all that's left to title.
You support labor title not me . Either you issue currency for yourself or you trust someone else to issue it. Which will YOU have? You cannot have it both ways. Gold is not specific to you alone. who is it that you suggest issue it ?

Republicae's picture

Have you ever read about the

Have you ever read about the early history of money in this country, that is after the Constitution was ratified. How was money created at the Mint? Well, there were several ways, but one was that people brought their gold and silver to the mint and for a very small fee the Mint would Mint coins and hand them back to the owner of the gold and silver. But additionally, there were other ways that the Mint of the Treasury would produce coinage, none of which gave the government control over the money itself. In fact, until 1858 there were no real legal tender laws and coinage of several countries was exchanged in this country.

The Constitution is very specific about the role of government, it becomes evident in several of the early monetary Acts passed by Congress in the late 1700s and early 1800s. The Congress was delegated narrow authority to coin money and regulate the value through the use of weights and measures. An once of gold minted here in this country would easily be exchanged in another country and vice-versa. The government didn't control the supply, it didn't claim title to the money and it didn't manipulate the rate of interest. The market determined the actual value of the money itself, the supply of gold and silver, being commodities would wax and wane, but all in all, the purchase value of the gold and silver currency remained very, very stable for decades.

Which way will I have it...I will have it the Constitutional Way, of course.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

Gold is easier to manipulate by individuals

than from a government system ..Goldman Sachs can simply not circulate the gold, driving the price higher. Same problem as today. All forms of currency can be manipulated. Government, or originator, stands a better chance of correcting manipulation than an individual would have. They also have more power to manipulate. The two powers go together.

Republicae's picture

Once in circulation the use

Once in circulation the use of gold/silver as money no longer operates under the same conditions as it does currently under a system that seeks to demonetize gold and silver. The fact is that since the fiat monetary system has been so depreciated through monetary inflation, the comparison between the current fiat system and a gold/silver specie system cannot be adequately made. You are, or at least it appear you are looking at the fiat price of gold when, in fact, since the fiat dollar has been depreciated to between 95% to 97% of the value of a 100 Cent Dollar, the value of gold appears to be driven higher and higher, that is the combined effects of fiat monetary depreciation through inflation and also a degree of manipulation in the gold markets to maintain the status quo of the fiat monetary system itself.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

IF the fiat money now in existance was in the hands

of our government , why would we be in DEBT. THE money IS circulating. Free markets are not dependant on GOLD for their existance.

Republicae's picture

You don't seem to get it, but

You don't seem to get it, but the fiat money in existence is in the hands of our government. The government is the owner of the Federal Reserve System and the primary beneficiary of that system; after all, what would you call someone who receives over 94% of all earnings of the FED? I CALL IT THE OWNER!!!

Free markets have not existed in this country for well over a hundred years. What we have had is a mixed economy where the primary force behind economic movements is not the free market, but the manipulation of economic factors through government intervention and central bank monetary polices. The fact is that gold lends itself to the free market in so many ways that it would take several thousand pages to describe all those ways. Not only does gold lend itself to the operation of free markets because, once in circulation, gold money becomes extremely difficult to actually control thereby allowing the free market to make "decisions" not the government, not the government's Federal Reserve Lapdog.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

I've heard

all this stuff before.

And Gold is an asset that helps you HOW?

Everyone is starving there is no room in the inn no food to be had and no one to sell you anything because it is illegal to sell without a number or gold. NOW What? All the gold you had they confiscated. NOW what? ETC. ETC. ETC.

Title is not yours because someone gave title to you, it's an entitlement , something that can be taken away. The ENTITY rules with or without gold.

Render unto Ceaser.

Republicae's picture

Gold, when used as money, is

Gold, when used as money, is a double asset, even when it is on the liability side of the equation it is still an asset, the same can never be said of a fiat monetary note, which is nothing more than a government issued IOU, a legal notification of a debt obligation.

Like all efforts at confiscation before, take FDR for instance, there was only about 22% of all the gold held in private American hands actually confiscated. FDR's attempt was an utter failure. Gold money is restrictive on government, it requires that government maintain a budget within the bounds of sound monetary policy, thus social policy would also be restrictive...Gold money would end the Welfare/Warfare State and that is why government hates gold money, that is why the government has sought to destroy the monetary use of gold in this country.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

Republicae's picture

Bill Still has a sorted

Bill Still has a sorted background of support for ideas that could hardly be considered that of one who respects the Constitution. In 2005, he wrote for a documentary entitled The Monopoly Men, it was a good production like all of Stills, but among other things lauded the work and ideology of none other than Huey P. Long. Now Long was an ardent redistributionist, remember “Share the Wealth Program”?

Now, while Bill Still did not write the entire documentary, he did contribute a substantial amount of work toward it and gave his seal of approval to its content. To give you an idea about what Huey P. Long’s Share the Wealth Program [a type of New Deal] was all about here are some of the ideas given in Long’s speech on the Floor of Senate in 1934:

1. To limit poverty by providing that every deserving family would share in the wealth of America.


2. To limit fortunes to a few million dollars so that the rest of the American people could share in the wealth and profits of the land.


3. To provide old-age pensions to persons over 60 who did not earn over a certain amount, or who possessed less than $10,000 in cash or property.


4. To limit the hours of work to such a degree that overproduction could be prevented, and workers could enjoy some of the recreations, conveniences, and luxuries of life.


5. To balance agricultural production with what could be sold and consumed.
[*To balance the problem of unemployment caused by limited agricultural production, farmers would complete public works projects during times when they were not required to produce farm products.]


6. To care for the veterans of our wars.


7. To acquire the tax dollars for running the government by reducing big fortunes. 


Any of that sound familiar? Well, also in the documentary that Bill Still assisted in producing were some other little tid-bits of information that might, or should, call into question the motives behind all of the Still productions.

There are several things that make me question Bill Still and his motives, there are several things within Bill Still’s documentaries which are not accurate or, in many cases simply untrue. He appears to propagate these myths, misconceptions and falsehoods mingled with some truth, but to swallow his stuff whole without chewing it first is not very wise.

Now, you have mentioned perhaps one of the greatest misconceptions about money in your first paragraph and that is that money must be plentiful or the people will be poor. That completely contradicts the function of money within an economy. The utility of money is not in the quantity, but the quality of that money and the productive creation of capital through the exchange within the market. David Hume proved that fact 300 years ago. The idea that it is the quantity of money that makes people wealthy denotes a complete lack of understanding of how money functions within an economy. For instance, Hume demonstrated, after decades of research, that if you doubled the amount of money within everyone’s possession overnight, then for a short time everyone would feel wealthier however, as the economic reality of the increase of money moved through the market, there would be an adjustment in prices to meet the increase of the supply of money. Likewise, if there is a decrease in the amount of money in circulation, the economic market will eventually adjust itself through downward pricing pressure, making the purchase value of the currency increase. The market, without intervention from government, which by the way will always incorporate the patronage of corporatism if allowed, will always adjust itself to the supply of money through either inflation or deflation.

There is an optimal supply of money and the market determines it as the purchase value of the currency remains relatively stable. This country saw such stability for most of the 18th Century [excluding the period between 1860 to the 1870s] until the advent of the Federal Reserve System and its imposition of fiat money in 1913, then again with FDR in 1934 when the U. S. Fiat Notes were depreciated and then again when the total fiat system was forced upon the American People in 1971 by Nixon. If you look at the rate of inflation or deflation during the periods prior to 1913, you will note one striking characteristic…general stability. The rate of inflation was virtually flat, so to was the rate of debt accumulation. There is a direct correlation between fiat currencies and debt accumulation, it cannot be contained under a system where the government, or some government sanctioned chartered agency, like the FED, is allowed to control the supply of money.

Again, wealth creation is not made through the quantity of money in circulation within the economy, nor for that matter is poverty made by the lack of money in circulation within the economy because money is not a static utility. It is the fungibility of money as a medium of exchange that assist in the creation of wealth and prosperity. One thing is certain, fiat money always, without exception, lends itself to the manipulation of both government and those who are highly connection to government power.

The crux of the matter is that Bill Still, like Ellen Brown and Mike Montagne are all believers in the State and the power of the State to produce, control and disseminate fiat money...essentially, their system would be absolutely no different than the current system. While they all claim that this would eliminate or restrict government debt, just the opposite it true, debt would still accumulate through the same type of government bond market that produces debt currently. Even if the Federal Reserve System is removed and the "power to create money" is left entirely up to Congress, as they suggest, the Congress would have to continue with a mechanism to impute value to the fiat money in the market, that system would essentially be the very same as we now have today, which is a government issuance of bonds to back and borrow.

As of yet, not one of these anti-gold/pro-State proponents have provided a mechanism to provide a direct issue of fiat currency by government with valuation. They simply say that it is the full faith and credit of the U.S. Government that would back it, hogwash...that does not impute value to a currency. The reason that any previous notes issued by the U.S. Treasury were backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. Government was they were "warehouse receipts" with gold/silver assets backing them. When that was eliminated the government had to back them with some imputation of value and that was an artificial government bond market created for that purpose.

BEWARE OF THOSE ADVOCATING WHAT BILL STILL, ELLEN BROWN AND MIKE MONTAGNE ARE ADVOCATING. I am amazed that there are those on the DP who fall for such positions, but obviously they do.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

Still promotes

sharing the wealth by way of honest business practices. Free and open markets. Supply and Demand would rule the wealth, not some overlord.

Supply and Demand have it's own inherant limiting effects. That's the whole point.

Regulations, regulators and limits that are manipulated are simple, OVERHEAD/ LOST to an economy.
They serve no good human purpose.

Republicae's picture

If it is true that Bill Still

If it is true that Bill Still supports sharing the wealth by way of honest business practices then why on earth would he lend his name and support to a documentary lauding the political life of a man whose idea of sharing the wealth was redistribution. Additionally, anyone supporting a fiat monetary system does, whether they are aware of it or not, support a system that was created to redistribute wealth from the population of a country into the coffers of government and those well-connected to that government.

http://militantjeffersonian.com

"So long as the people do not care to exercise their freedom, those who wish to tyrannize will do so; for tyrants are active and ardent...to put shackles upon sleeping men.
— Voltairine de Cleyre

You use the term

to limit. To limit is not free market principle and does not motivate people to invest or take chances which is what built AMERICA into the Nation that all Nations want to steal from.

Manipulation and excess is NOT the same . Excess is the mother of invention, manipulation is the mother of thieves. Excess is passed on in some way, while theft is LOST forever.

Republicae I'm surprised you speak socialistic communisum. Read what you wrote than listen to Lenon.
Still does not support this communist style.

A gov't backed system would not be the same. The Banker (The U,S, Tres.), in charge, "could not" hand over to itself any unlimited printing of fiat the the economy would not support. The economy would be controlled by supply and demand. Foreign investers would no longer get to put into the system for an unbalanced budget to take place. Of course you realize that the American economy would no longer be number one as other counties adopt what we already had, AN unlimited source of funds to do with as we saw fit. America would become what you all would be afraid of , an Obsama stifled economy because other nations would become the unlimited funds governments.

This is the very thing the NWO is trying to accomplish. American insolvency. The FED.RES= why would any sane PRIVATE Banker (THE FED. RES) finance a Country into insolvency ? They have someting to GAIN. NWO. / SIMPLE Then they can have their way with the whole World the way they treat Americans, SLAVES. / SIMPLE

Who owns the FED. RES.? THE international monetary system. / SIMPLE. THE Gadsdon Flag.