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The Southern Avenger - Beyond the Mosque

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Showing how the deaths of Iraqis could fuel hatred....

... and could have inspired 9/11 was spot on and something we have been trying to explain to GOP conservatives since the 2008 debates.

The Virtual Conspiracy

Building up hype.

They are just building up hype and another false justification with the public for a war against Iran.

How'd this project go from being "A gesture of goodwill that

is meant to be a bridge, an outreach to the community by the Muslim faith" to "Screw you if you don't like it- we have a right to build a mosque here." Seems to me that if the objective is to create goodwill, maybe that goal would be better achieved by taking the good city up on it's offer to provide a place where it wont be divisive. I mean, if healing division was the original intent it would just make more sense.

Another One Bites the Dust

Jack Hunter now joins Pat Buchanan as a designated main-stream corporate media neo-con tool. Who remains on the "approved" reading list? My options grow more and more limited.


The opening sux

Please watch it a second time. I still don't get what the first 45 seconds is about and what a walmart in Vermont has to do with it. the city council already approved the "mosque"

I still don't know about Jack. There is something about him that makes me distrust him. But if you start the youtube video after first minute or so its pretty spot on.

However the whole "grow up and respect your neighbors" thing is bunk. Since like I said NYC government has approved it. IF people had a gripe about it they should have bombarded the councilmen. And as Jack says its up to new yorkers to decide...last I checked the southern avenger wasn't from NYC so his opinion on the matter in his own words is irrelevant.

What I hate about it is I think Jack is trying to play both sides. He is trying to make it sound good for all the Muslim haters out there so they will listen to his points about how awful US foreign policy is. And that there just might be some blow back. This whole thing is a distraction and that what his focus needs to be on. Even if you aren't fans of Muslims don't let these grease balls suck you into this pool of BS. Or simply state history didn't start on 9112001.

From the LRC blog.

The US has been opening up ground zero's all over the world next to mosques.

Jack is said

jack did not play both sides he played the libertarian side. Claiming jack is playing both sides is like claiming RP is playing both sides because he is anti war and for small government.
Jack plainly said it is a local issue that is being hyped by the neocon slime. He then ties 9/11 to our foreign policy. I am not sure what else you want him do. I imagine that he could rant like a crazy man and make a lot less people feel a tiny bit better.

Just because the city council approved it does not mean local people can not protest. Most people do not know what their city council is doing until it is too late.

Because we are opening ground zeros next to mosques does not offer justification for them to do the same. I can personally care less about it, just wanted to point out the flaw.

this whole debate is stupid

You confuse me.

Your last paragraph is far too collectivist for me to even comprehend.


Oh brother

yes them

Them as in those who want to build the mosque..... How is it I am branded a collectivist when is use the word them to refer to a small group of people who want to build a structure but you are not when you make statements like "The US has been opening up ground zero's all over the world next to mosques."
hypocrite much?

What do the missiles say on the side of them?


Besides you missed my point. You are grouping the builders of the mosque w/the Muslims through out the world that have been fired upon by the United states military.

The whole point is the two groups are not one and the same. Not only that they are not connected with one another. So no I was not making or even thinking the Bombing of the Muslim world in any way gave another group of Muslims a "right" to build anything.

I just thought it was funny the US (military) can go around blowing innocent people up and nobody seems to care or notice. But as soon as some politicians start some controversy a large number of idiots goes ape over a box of sticks.

Can you

Can you justify your position?
Or do you just like to attack those you do not 100% agree with.
Every building needs a permit, ever church or community center needs one.
Our country was founded on libertarian principles regarding the Federal government. Each state has its own constitution.

Relative, do you think

you can build anything you want on your property? Obviously you don't have much experience with construction.

I can't build on my property

I can't build on my property what I want, and that's what's wrong with construction laws.

but not even the current laws make it any kind of majority decision what I or anyone else can build.

you are free to not like what is built there, but if you really think it should be verboten by law you are not any kind of libertarian.

And another point!

We have freedom of speech, but we can't yell, "FIRE!" in a crowded building. I think this mosque/ctr is no different. If I was in some position of authority I would not allow the bldg also from the standpoint of protecting the people who will build it, and use it. If it gets built, there is bound to be violence and/or vandalism.

Yes, we have rights, but with rights come responsibility and use of common sense.

this is a very anti libertarian opinion

If you had any faith in personal liberty, you condemn the idea of governing 'permission' on conditional bases in the guise of protection or public welfare. Sacrificing the few to benefit the many is a dangerous slipping slide to travel down.

PS - we apparently no longer have any rights, we only have privileges, and the responsibility of common sense is something that should be utilized on an individual basis, not on a collective, social welfare decision.


The only ones yelling FIRE are the rightwing bigots who think all Muslims are responsible for 9/11, they don't like Islam and therefore believe mosque is a dedication to them, and NOT that its a holy place of worship.

With rights come responsibility. And the Imam is a Sufi mystic, who is too liberal even for my liking, and he took it as his responsibility to reclaim Islam from being defined in non-Muslim American eyes by the terrorists...who we all know by now (on DailyPaul) attacked for political NOT RELIGIOUS reasons.

Shame on you for not understanding basic Constitutional freedom.

Yes, the 'Islamaphobia' is a calculated and managed fear

Here is a good article/ commentary on this:

The Most Terrifying of All Battles: When the Enemy Lies Within Ourselves ~Arthur Silber

The opponents of the "Ground Zero mosque" are consumed by irrational loathing of the fearsome, despised Other, they reveal that it is they themselves who are the source of the evils they condemn.

Those who repeatedly and furiously denounce the "Ground Zero mosque," as they speak in horrified tones of the coming conquest of America by Islam, tremble before one possibility far more than any enemy they have chosen to identify. Their capacity for more accurate perception and even minimal self-awareness is altogether obliterated by their greatest of all fears: that they might have to hold up a mirror to their own souls and see the diseased, twisted nature of what they have allowed to permanently reside there.

Such people cannot be reasoned with, and it is futile to try. But we should always remember what it is that actually drives them to such destructive rage, and that it has nothing at all to do with the source they are willing to identify. This pattern is, of course, as old as humankind. What we loathe in ourselves, we place in others. Then we destroy those others, believing we thus destroy what we loathe.

But the enemy still lives, inside us. Until that is understood, the battle will never end, nor will the destruction, the suffering and the death.

read in full


"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

good link/article . . .

the writer is correct, however; those stirred up by this mania aren't seeing reason.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

The Most Terrifying of All Battles: When the Enemy Lies Within

Ourselves ~ I should have kept the original title or maybe called it 'The Mirror, Cracked'

I wish people would see this as the manipulated controversy that it is! The likes of Palin, Newt Gingrich and the whole neocon gang( on the right and left)have trotted this out for midterm elections and for more fear-mongering to drum support for never ending wars.

Same 'ol Same 'ol
I'm going fishing in the mountains for week! Got my fly rod and an ultra light! Will be nice not to see any madness for a week! ;-)

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

Well said.

Thanks for that article. Is there a link avail?


Yes, the link is there

(highlighted in red at the bottom)

Here it is again:

The Most Terrifying of All Battles: When the Enemy Lies Within Ourselves

read that one above and here is another good one:

Profiles in Pusillanimity: Obama and the Ground Zero Mosque

* I like both of these writers a lot! ;-)

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

what the hell does this BS do

what the hell does this BS do on dailypaul.
the use of private property is not a majority decision.


Just because what our government does is wrong, does not make it right to do something so offensive to so many people. Watched an interview with the sister of the pilot of the plane that crased into the Pentagon. To paraphrase her remarks, "What if the Imam had announced he wanted to build a community center to create understanding & that it would include a mosque/prayer room, and he had invited the community to gather to discuss where this bldg. should be to create the best community response? How much better would that have been?"

They say two blocks from Ground Zero, but it's an "L" shaped two bloocks. In other words, it's around the corner from Ground Zero. I liken it to if we'd have done something similar at Hiroshima. How much good-will would that have spawned? Also, that area of Manhatten does not even have a concentration of Muslims. This isn't a little mosque/center, it's 15 stories high. The Imam & his followers have brought all of this on themselves.

concur completely

seems none are so righteous as when facing, but not looking into, a mirror image

cee cee

hmm, well, perhaps . . .

you haven't read the other post on here about the Mossad being behind 9/11--

I have no doubt 'actors'/mercenaries were hired, with conveniently "Arabic" garb--

what a show!

And did you note the Jewish ancestry of the man who was talking about it in the link? (Talking about the Mossad; he also said he felt Israel deserved to be attacked for it; unlike him, and as a non-Zionist Christian, I don't think anyone deserves to be attacked, not a nation or a people anyway)--

Also, in the article about 25,000 Jews in Iran--that one of the writers of the article is an American Jew, also who sees the discrepancies.

This is not a religious issue, but there are those evil enough to try to make it a religious issue.

It's not about Jews and Muslims and Christians; it's about thugs wearing the guise of each.

Now, *I* am not saying the Mossad did it, though there is credible evidence, unfortunately--
that is not being aired on MSM and is even being held back on places like this; someone WILL come on and start shouting about how this isn't a place for conspiracy theories, etc.
What *I* am saying is that religion was merely "used"--and that whoever did it represented NO real religion of any kind--

all part of the hoax; that I firmly believe, and I think that many reasonable people do.

This fracas in NYC only confirms it; people are being whipped into frenzy.

The question is why.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--


Bigotry and fear by some who are ignorant o f Islam doesn't justify changing our Constitutional or limiting Constitutional freedoms of American Muslims.

It is THEY who need to get around knowing not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are Muslims, not ME.

Tell me which is worse?

Nineteen criminal thugs, whose religion happens to be Islam, committing terrorist acts on US soil resulting in the deaths of over 3,000 Americans where then coincidently an Islamic Mosque is built near the site of this heinous crime…


The US Government imposing 12 years of economic sanctions on Iraq which results in the deaths of over 500,000 Iraqi children, for the majority whose religion happens to be Islam. Then the same US Government builds an embassy, bigger than the Vatican, in the heart of Baghdad, Iraq.

You tell me which is worse?

Rand Paul 2016 for Peace

Or as someone quipped to Lew

The US has been opening up ground 0′s next to mosques all over the world, for a very long time.

Agreed, well stated!

Such arrogant hypocrisy...it never ceases to amaze, sadden and anger me!

"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd

Which is worse?

That's not hard. A good analogy indeed.

The neocon Republicans are a

The neocon Republicans are a bunch of hypocrites. They use the Constitution to try and justify their hate and sick lust for war. What part of the First Amendment "Freedom of Religion" don't they understand?