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Why I prefer the mosque community center is built somewhere else

One particular oddity that stands out in this saga is that Mr. Sharif El-Gamal actively sought to build it near the WTC, focusing on the proximity to it. The old burlington coat factory building a few blocks away was not selected by mere coincidence. According to WSJ, the plan to build the "landmark" near Ground Zero was a year in the making. In an article written in July, long before the media payed any attention to it, the WSJ writer describes the goal as a "quest." Anton Trionoviski writes in a press release that it was El-Gamal's "long quest to build an Islamic community center near Ground Zero..."

In fact, the timing of the mosque raises as much suspicion as the location itself.

Why announce that the dedication will happen on September 11, 2011 -- the 10th anniversary of the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history? Larry Mendte, writing for the Philly Post, writes:

"No one would have a grand opening for a deli in Lower Manhattan on that date, let alone a mosque[!]"

Who would dare be stupid enough to match the grand opening to the anniversary of 9/11?

Well, it would appear El-Gamal would.

So the natural question to ask is, "wtf?"

Sure, sure. I can hear you taking the high-road, now. You will say, perhaps it was a well-intentioned spiritual decision to bring forth precisely the dialogue in which we are talking about right now.

Perhaps it was merely a business decision to create enough controversy that it would turn the venture into a success. Remember, even bad press is good press.

But if the vision of this project is to create "pluralism" and "respect" as it says so on their website, then are they really so oblivious to what is actually happening now?

If that is their stated goal, are they really accomplishing that?

Because it conveniently sounds to me like the opposite is happening. Especially, now, with their recent posting of a 12 minute Keith Olberman piece -- one of the most divisive useful idiot talking heads rivaled only by the divisiveness of Limbaugh.

Is this really about who is right and who is wrong?

I don't think so.

In less you've been living under a rock for the last 10 years, then you know that the WTC has deep-rooted symbol that conjures up memories of death and pain and fear and travesty. And worse, if you believe in the government story of 9/11; that a handful of islamic extremist were on a religious conquest to attack america because we are free -- then you might find a problem with this.

I think the pundits may have unwittingly had it right this time. If you look at the financial backing of this cordoba initiative then you'll discover the salt on the wounds of this terribly sore subject just happens to be funded from a major FOX shareholder. Mind you, the same FOX shareholder who owns the 2nd largest stake (behind Murdoch) in funding the largest propaganda network that earth history has ever seen.

Just ask any liberal who have been very keen at identifying FOX's manipulation techniques during the Bush years, while remaining hopelessly oblivious to other media propaganda that falls within their understanding of the world.

The WTC site has become a more important icon than any other landmark in this country, and, dare I say it -- their placement and timing of this cordoba initiative was by no accident. That means that not only is Paul correct when he suggests that they are trying to blame Islam for 9/11 -- but that this entire divide and conquer ploy was conceived of from its' inception.

This is not about what is right and what is wrong. This is about what works and what doesn't work.

Ultimately, the biggest tell of them all is how the cordoba initiative decides to proceed after this. We absolutely will discover what the point of this exercise was, soon:

Think about it.

Now that it has been so blown out of proportion by the media, one can only assume that it will be protested, vandalized, or worse.

Everybody knows that that is what is going to happen.

And, yet, that very fact coupled with their persistent plans on moving forward at its' current location is a demonstration that they are unsympathetic at best -- or, at worst -- actively engaged in a divisive campaign.

If they really seek to bring plurality and respect with their project, then this is a wonderful opportunity to build bridges between the Muslims and the West by showing tolerance for OTHERS' feelings and concerns. Yes, tolerance. That means even to the un-enlightened bigots and other hard core religionists who believe the government story of 9/11.

So yes. I would prefer they take the high road and build the mosque community center elsewhere.

That would truly be a breakthrough in history.

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Ridiculous non-issue.

It's not even all that near Ground Zero.

Although I will admit to preferring it not be built. There used to be a Burlington Coat Factory there, and a friend of mine once got a GREAT deal on a terrific leather blazer. So in that sense, it really was "hallowed" ground for some of us who shop there. I was hoping more retail would move in, or something else I would use.

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

Two fecals

I could give two poops about this topic. Did the Muslim faith of 1.5 million members destroy the WTC? No. Al Qaeda did.

Yes, and I feel "dirty"

Yes, and I feel "dirty" having perpetuated discussion of this "issue."

And now I've just bumped it again. D'oh!

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

The real reason is "Property Rights"

I refer all to Ron Paul's interview on CNN



It was Chonk123's request

for me to post an explanation of sharia law. I'm choosing the one directly from the Council on Foreign Relations website, because Imam Rauf, head of the Cordoba House Intiative, happens to be a CFR member: http://www.cfr.org/publication/8034/islam.html

Thank you Ruth

I still don't see how you think Sharia law will affect you. Sounds like something you would have to sign up for or a government would have to force on a people. It SHOULD not be possible in a republic, but this does seem to be a republic lost. Again I will say it should not be a fear to us unless we are too cowardess to stand up against our own tyrants. And we are still armed and must remain that way no matter what laws they pass. When we will use our 2nd ammendment rights remains to be seen, but I would certainly hope it would be before sharia law was imposed. I would think Marshal law would have to get a little more noticable first. Again I think you are fearing something they want you to fear so they can use your fear to impose their brand of tyrany not impose or allow sharia law. Cart before the horse. Your getting distracted from the real threat. Thanks again for posting. I really don't see the connection with the Mosque being near ground zero though. I personally worry more about powers in this country not even associated with the Muslim religion who have connections to the building or more so the controversy around it. It is another mind game. If you and others think it is some kind of in your face victory show of power by muslims, the best thing you can do is ignore it. Don't give them the satisfaction. Too late for that I suppose.~Peace (I wish)Thanks again


another fear I have is if this mosque gets built, it will be used as a permanent vehicle for whipping up anti-Muslim sentiments any time it's convenient. It can have multiple uses aimed for different audiences. I don't see how it can build bridges or promote discussion and dialogue, though, I don't see any good can come of it. Thanks for your kind words and consideration.

I honestly

wish it wasn't an issue and shouldn't be. I think it was stirred up by certain people for reasons other than the people have been lead to believe. It is a shame to see people divided on what should be a non issue with all the more urgent and serious issues we have to deal with these days. It is a useless distraction and I think orchestrated by people with self serving interest playing on peoples emotions that may not have been a big deal if not totally pushed on them. You do know the connection to Fox news and Murdoch don't you? Interesting to say the least. I personally am going to try to ignore it from here on out and move on to other things unless it comes up in a converstion with some one pushing for more warmongering against Muslim countries. Fox is already trying to drag Iran in to it.~Peace

Very Interesting article

Thanks for sharing. Everyone should check it out.


The lip of truth shall be established forever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment...Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are His delight. Prov 12:19,22

Nothing at all wrong preferring someone build something

you don't like somewhere else.

Big difference between that and saying they should be forced to not build there.

My favorite people in the world: Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Peter Schiff, Judge Napolitano, Milton Friedman, Bob Barr, and John Stossel

Do you live in New York City?

I don't. Therefore, I give not a rat's behind what they build there.

i guess im not allowed to care about anything outside

i guess im not allowed to care about anything outside the boundaries of my state line -- much less my country.

those people dying in iraq and afghanistan?


Not buildings

Seriously. It's absolutely none of my buisiness.

Build the mosque because...

It is probably most unlikely that Muslims would bomb a place of their own.

So seemingly building a mosque there would make this a very safe place in NY city.

Of course, that is assuming that just 19 crazy Arabs were the only ones involved in 9/11.

But I think looking into Larry Silverstein's (Owner of World Trade Center) past and his investments might reveal some very interesting results indeed.

I have read that 2/3 of those buildings were vacant because of asbestos concerns.

So someone was losing LOTS of money in the World Trade Center buildings.

And someone REALLY wanted to invade Iraq.

And someone REALLY wanted to test their newest military toys.

And someone REALLY wanted to have the power to spy on US citizens with a nice new un-patriot Act.

Etc, etc, etc.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

I think you're forgetting

there are Christian extremists, too, who would not be above terrorizing the mosque. I'm pointing this out because you're saying the mosque would make the area safer, but I suspect at least some of the New Yorkers are concerned it would make the area prone to a non-Muslim terrorist attack, and so more dangerous.

Two things ...

1. All great points why you think the mosque should be built somewhere else, but what does that have to do with anything? If the local government, which imposes local rules and regs regarding zoning and building codes, approves it, the owner can do whatever he/she/it pleases.

2. The more obvious reason why the developer picked the site is to bring attention to it so that it becomes easier to raise money for the project.

Great post.

But, how about us "...un-enlightened bigots and other hard core religionists who DON'T believe the government story of 9/11?"

I am not sure what a religionist is, but the term seems to demean those who take religion seriously. Actually, those who are protesting the building need to consider their religion more deeply and figure out WHY they might be offended by the building of the mosque.

Is it okay to steal property rights from non-Christians?
Are all religions truly equal?
Who determines which beliefs are a "religion" and which are a perversion of that religion?
Is there a universal moral code that we can all agree on?

How about the basic: "Thou shalt not kill."
Does that simply mean innocent human beings? Or does it include sacred cows and exclude non-believers?

Our American government has a weakness when it comes to plurality because it fails to acknowledge the moral code on which it is based and refuses to see any authority outside of it's will.

We do well to see the difference between a Democratic mob and a Republic of laws, but we miss the boat if we still think "the people" have the ultimate power to make laws.

Folks Who "Embrace" Islam Before Reading the Koran

Out of the Frying Pan and into the Fire!


there's no need for that.

please don't prop this thread with that drivel.

I imagine the people feel the same in Iraq

or Afghanistan or Hiroshima when the US puts a $Billion dollar embassy or base in the heart of areas where hundreds of thousands of innocent people have been killed either directly by war or indirectly by sanctions or loss of infrastructure that causes them to die of disease or thirst or starvation.

Many people may not like the idea of the mosque, but I 100% agree with Dr. Paul that equating Islam with terrorism is just a way for Gov't to keep people in fear so it can continue to steal our liberty and spread war and death.

There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. 99.999% of them are peaceful

MSM much to do about nothing.

It is simply a NY city ground zero zoning authority call. End of story.

I am not crazy about the idea

but I have to fight for their right to do it or else I do not believe in freedom and liberty and justice for ALL. It goes back to what we all have been fighting for; freedom to be and do as long as we are not infringing on other's rights to be and do. Are they infringing on people's good will? Probably. Will this promote more dissension as time goes by? Perhaps. But only because the media will allow it to. The media foments all of this.
Would I be worrying about this in my little corner of the world if the media did not keep throwing it at me? No. I would be worrying about how I am going to pay my bills next month or whether my son is going to come home in a box from Iraq or whether my retirement is going to hold out. All of the things that the typical American should be thinking about but they won't as long as the media keeps them distracted with this garbage.
I think that is what Rand is trying to say when it doesn't sound like he agrees with his father. I believe he is saying that "ideally it should not happen because of all of the emotion behind it. However, legally it should happen because property rights should not be infringed upon."
But it does distract us from what really is the issue. Let's not look at WHY they hate us (the extremists) but let's just believe they all (Muslims) hate us so we can keep perpetuating war.


The lip of truth shall be established forever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment...Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are His delight. Prov 12:19,22

All of this, and the US continues creating...


US Drone Strike Destroys House Full of Children in Pakistan
Several Civilians Among 20 Killed in US Drone Attack
by Jason Ditz

The Obama Administration’s policy of escalating drone strikes took another hit today, after the explosion from a drone attack against the house of “suspected militants” in North Waziristan also destroyed a neighboring house full of women and children.

The combined toll from the blast was 20 people killed, with at least four women and three children among the slain. At least 13 other civilians were also reported wounded, including a number of other children.

continue reading: http://news.antiwar.com/2010/08/23/us-drone-strike-destroys-...

Rand Paul 2016 for Peace

this is horrible--


it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

1988, please ignore those

1988, please ignore those children who were killed by a remote controlled plane from New Jersey.

Please stay on topic about whether or not a "cultural center," which will actually benefit the community, should or should not be built.

Thank you,


Columbus, Ohio

I agree with your point, however

I agree with your point that the puppet masters (or evil shepherds-- whatever they are) are deliberately making this a big deal just to divide and conquer. I believe that that is why the media keeps talking about race in America. (Maddow had on a news story last night about how Fox is trying to scare "White People", and she cited this mosque hysteria as evidence to that-- I guess she's never seen a white muslim? I have.) Talking about race problems, CREATES race problems. I don't like to talk about things in terms of race or group think because I don't agree with the underlying theories behind collectivism.

However, I also believe that the establishment is trying to attack liberty in all of this mess. Think of what precedent this will set. If the muslims in NY can't build near Ground Zero, then all sorts of communities around the country will tell other muslims that they can't build around their soldiers' cemeteries, or near city hall, or some other touchy nonsense. And this whole PC culture we have will just raise the bar for how goddamn 'sensitive' we all are about LIVING!

The real threat is not the muslims, but the Maddows, the Becks, the Olbermanns, and the Limbaughs. They're the ones fanning the flames of racial tension.

I don't agree with your one statement:

"Now that it has been so blown out of proportion by the media, one can only assume that it will be protested, vandalized, or worse.

Everybody knows that that is what is going to happen."

That sounds like a justification for pre-emptive strike... but then... on the other hand, maybe had we followed this advice we'd have never built a military base on Holy Ground in the Middle East? (Then again, the common denominator in both examples is this irrational idea of 'hollowed grounds'...)

It's a tricky topic, and I thank you for being honest about it, but at the same time, I'd much rather err on the side of freedom and liberty.



it's just my observation

and i certainly don't even advocate playing into their game by protesting it

but i don't think it takes much foresight to realize that the mosque, at the least, will be protested ad naseum for the forseeable future.

thanks for your comments.

I just wonder if these same protesters would be...

against a Strip club, or maybe a Gay Club in the same spot, and no I am not trying to be funny. Honestly, I think this whole thing is just a distraction from what is really happening in our government, and our country.
People need to stay focused on the big picture.

Just a thought

Or conspiracy theory if you like. Suppose there is more behind this than a political ploy to help republicans or whatever. Suppose it is getting the sheep to once again scream to give up on another important liberty.
Property Rights? Isn't that what they do? Get people in an uproar or afraid about an issue and them get them to agree to legislation to ease thier fears or give them what they think is power over the "Bad" guys not realizing or even willingly giving up thier own rights/liberties to do so? Careful what you wish for or demand.