1 vote

Who gets paid the "INTEREST" on the "NATIONAL DEBT"??

While the short answer may be the Federal Reserve,who specifically is getting this money??

(if you don't know, or don't know why it is important to know..please keep reading...)

The 2010 Fiscal Year Total of the US interest payment is $375,247,863,222.70
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

THAT IS 375 BILLION + A YEAR!!! SOMEONE (or someones) is getting a lot of all our hard earned money .....FOR NOTHING!!!

If we can find out who the actual individuals are who are getting paid all that money... would they not be open to prosecution, either via Superior court civil action, or (if only) even criminal Court for running a ponzi scheme, or for creating money out of thin air??

(I am sure there are other charges... for any of you legal people..please add the charges as you may see it)

Now, why should you care, or why should anyone care?? These banker scam artists have been operating with the benefit of secrecy for like 80 years or so...making all that money ... imagine if suddenly AMERICA THE SLEEPING GIANT ..woke up!! There would not be a piece of soil on earth that they could hide on ... there would be thousands of "bounty hunters" on their ass.. for like EVER!!! (once the truth about their 80 year old scam got out, that is)

So , again I ask... who specifically is getting paid over 375 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR OF THE TAXPAYERS MONEY??

(can you imagine, if this knowledge was front page news in just one major newspaper...talk bout riots by noon!!--hehe well maybe drudge can post it with a link to here..)

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The "national debt" is in the form of U.S. Securities

So the holders of those securities would be the recipients of that interest.

This is not a short list and does include many, many Americans.

Well, what I have always

Well, what I have always wanted to know, is WHO said it was FINE to borrow money from Communist Countries, anyway. It seemed like ALL OF A SUDDEN we owed PILES of money to other countries! Well who in H started this, and why did we not vote on it??

Interesting discussion

bump for others.

Prepare & Share the Message of Freedom through Positive-Peaceful-Activism.

grace commission under

grace commission under Reagan....

President Reagan "Grace Commission" Flight of the Income Tax

Submitted by Mark Twain on Mon, 09/06/2010 - 01:08.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/143510#comment-1530467

President Reagan asked innocently, "Where do all our income tax payments go?" He created the "Grace Commission" to find out.

Brief summary: Your Income Tax payments completely disappear.


"In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government.

- 'Grace Commission' under President Ronald Reagan"

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

many people below have stated, that the interest goes to

bondholders.... which may be so.

But how is it that the Fed and the bankers that control it, are making so much money, if all the interest is just paid out to people like you and me who own T bills and bonds?

(or is it that they just print money and use it at their whim, with little or no oversight??

If so they can

-- start their own religions...
--fund any type of social engineering...
-- purchase politicians completely and forever...
-- pay off any judge..
-- pay off any police force...
--.....etc.etc...

is this happening? or can it even be found out if it is??

Not all the interest is paid to the little guy.

And what do you mean by "control it?"

Control "what?"

And define "control" in this context.

I'm not following you.

ok will re-word it...

how is it that the FED and the bankers that control the FED (federal reserve) are making so much money off of us Americans? If the "interest" on the national debt is actually being paid out to the average citizen, then... how is it that the bankers who own the Federal Reserve, are able to make so much money? (do they just own more t-bills, bonds? or is it their stock in the FED reserve?)

---------------
If we had an interest free currency..(ie colonial script, or Lincoln greenbacks ,etc) Then there would be no interest paid out to anyone. While obviously having a gold /silver backed currency is optimal... having a fiat currency that is debt free would be at least second best.

but ...when will anyone in congress ever realize this simple understanding??? (except RP, of course)

An interest free currency would mean no or almost no taxes needed ... imagine if suddenly there were no more IRS and no more taxes ?? (at least federal) talk about supercharging the economy!!

Further support of your point a few pages down...

According to the commission under Reagan...
Submitted by JSBach on Mon, 09/06/2010 - 00:10
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/143510#comment-1530445

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

thanks for that....

I had seen that at one time all taxes west of the Mississippi were used to pay the interest payment on the national debt. But, now it seems that ALL TAXES COLLECTED ARE USED TO PAY THE INTEREST ON the "NATIONAL DEBT"?

Unbelievable... if only the populace knew.... There would be no place the bankers could hide....

Your Welcome. 100% of Income Tax Gone w/o One Nickel of Service

1984, Shocking Conclusion: 100% of Income Tax Gone w/o One Nickel of Service. It goes to pay interest on "National Debt" & transfer payments. Take from you to pay others waiting in line.

This was the conclusion of the 1984 "Grace Commission" ordered by President Ronald Reagan.

Soceity is absurd... but you get used to it.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Would that be

Trust #65 in the Commonwealth of The Philippines.
Attorneys, judges, snoops receive kickbacks on IRS collections. The President receives kickbacks on IRS collections.

Just one last kick in the nuts, then a final deathblow

No creditors = no debt

The Coinage Act of 1792 proscibes death for debasing the currency.

Proscibe: to publish the name of as condemned to death with the property of the condemned forfeited to the state

Sounds like a plan to me.

End the Fed

Not quite. Here's the actual language of the act.

This penalty and crime only applied to "any of the officers or persons who shall be employed at the said mint..."

Anyone outside this group who did so, even with officer or employee help, was not hereby declared a felon. (though the officer or employee would be)

Sec 19.
And be it further enacted, That if any of the gold or silver coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint shall be debased or made worse as the proportion of fine gold or fine silver therein contained, or shall be of less weight or value than the same ought to be pursuant to the directions of this act, through the default or with the connivance of any of the officers or persons who shall be employed at the said mint, for the purpose of profit or gain, or otherwise with a fraudulent intuit, and if any of the said officers or persons shall embezzle any of the metals which shall at any time be committed to their charge for the purpose of being coined, or any of the coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint, every such officer or person who shall commit any or either of the said offences, shall be deemed guilty of a felony and shall suffer death.

Congress itself debased several of the coins a few times in history. Now they don't even mint them anymore except for a few specimens as commemorative pieces.

FRNs (or their historical counterparts) are NOT contemplated by this act. Only gold and silver coin.

Do I think such people should suffer the death penalty? Yeah, but good luck getting them convicted much less arrested and tried.

Great ARticle on this very same subject!!

TAKING BACK WHAT IS OURS!

http://dailypaul.com/node/145372

(if only we can find a way......)

More Than Interest @ The Fed

So Much More Than Interest

Much of this of this discussion is excellent. The "National Debt" interest payment has a mystical origin. Intriguing.

Why would Dr Ron Paul wish to End-the-Fed if it were simply a nice bank, offering interest to old folk,orphans & needy others?

  • If it could just loan enough legal tender?
  • If Dorothy would please come home?
  • "It makes no sense." laments Dr Paul.

Why?... Why is the Fed

  • Permitted to order Dollar denominated notes, at the 4 cents cost of printing
  • "Federal Reserve" across the top of their "Notes" they took @ cost of printing

    And you thought you took good notes in math?

  • Their return on investment (ROI) is infinite.
  • Interest is loose change

    Answer: Loose Change to the bond holders.

  • The big return is

    Counter-Fitting (no matter how you spell it)

What Shall You Do?

Questions?

  • Go directly to Federal Reserve
  • Do not pas go
  • Do not collect $200
    http://www.FederalReserve.gov
    • The Original Act, 1913...
    • And so much less, after expenses
    • Was it sin?
  • Help-Wanted
    • Act, 1913 Need jesters, clowns, & humbugs
    • Act, 1913 Banker wives & cousins land a committee jobs, so can you. No experience required.
    • Act, 1913 requires non-banker oversight... as required by the Original Act its self. No Bankers need apply. No other discrimination

Further research on Counterfeiting?
http://www.UStreas.gov/offices/treasurer/
Counter-Fitting history (US Treasury History)

Mark Twain review of the US Treasurer Website Counter-Fitting History? (alternate spelling provided)
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/143467#comment-1528300

Who could be doing all that Counter-Fitting they worry about? Ask Pogo. He might know.

Support Dr Ron Paul End-the-Fed.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Franklin Roosevelt: "I'm going to control you, since 1920!"

Franklin Delanor Roosevelt: "I'm going to control you, since 1920! I will humbly increase the debt note circulation, until aour' debt notes are circulating in every single state, central control is what I want....Give me yer gold!!"

The original progressive ought to wake up all the so called "progressives" of today, about what sort of a Colonel Chicken they supported.

By the way, the bondholders get everything...So doesn't that mean the Fed can rig the game, thus "count all their money/chickens" -- "off the books"? As in - "I got a Forex account....now all we bankers got another Forex account, trading the Fed-dead debt notes!!"

Each one worth thousands....or more since they buy up all the bonds & we don't know how many bonds any of them have.

Federal Reserve
- Loaning you blind since 1913.

Interest: Bond Holders. Thx RiverRun. Fed is More Than Interest

Original answer to this form:
RiverRun directly answered this forum question, August 31: Who gets the interest? The Bond Holders. Nice summary on the first thread to this forum
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/143510#comment-1526255

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

According to the commission under Reagan...

The Commission Reagan set in place to investigate such things, determined that already by the end of the 1980's, 100% of the (fraud) income tax was paid directly into the Federal Reserve, as interest on the national dept owed by the people.

So, your wealth as labor, at least half a years worth, not counting the fraud counterfeiting which sucks the value from everything else you hold, all that labor for half the year, is paid right into the Fed coffers.

There are a very limited number of private stockholders of the Federal Reserve bank. You are not one of them. They had no money to lend. They counterfeited your value from your bank account, lent it to the government account, and we pay interest on that!

Certainly we do not pay back principal! There was never money owned, by the Fed owners, to lend. They were given the power to take all our 'gold coins', lay them on a bench, hammer them thin, cut them into more pieces of coin, shape them and stamp them with new letters, hand us back the same number of coins (lighter in weight of course), then hand the rest of the newly hammered thin pieces, to the government... as money on which to pay interest!

All that was "lent" was subtracted from the wealth held by all who hold FRN's... and that is everyone...

except those who deal in silver and gold!!

President Reagan "Grace Commission" Flight of the Income Tax

President Reagan asked innocently, "Where do all our income tax payments go?" He created the "Grace Commission" to find out.

"If taxpayers only knew, they would be more willing to contribute. Wouldn't they?" he reasoned.

Mr President, I have dusted off the "Grace Commission" report you ordered... It is a beaut.

One Line Comeback: 100% = Federal Debt Interest & transfer payments.

Abysmal Findings: The sad truth.

Quote from "Grace Commission" Report Findings

  • "Resistance to additional income taxes would be even more widespread if people were aware that:
    • One-third of all their taxes is consumed by waste and inefficiency in the Federal Government as we identified in our survey.
    • Another one-third of all their taxes escapes collection from others as the underground economy blossoms in direct proportion to tax increases and places even more pressure on law abiding taxpayers, promoting still more underground economy -a vicious cycle that must be broken.
  • With two-thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments.
  • In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government."

Pres. Reagan Grace Commission Report:
http://www.uhuh.com/taxstuff/gracecom.htm

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

ecorob's picture

sounds right to me!

...sadly, its true

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

You do!!

If you want, that is. Buy a Treasury Bond. You will get the interest payments.

My favorite people in the world: Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Peter Schiff, Judge Napolitano, Milton Friedman, Bob Barr, and John Stossel

Debbie's picture

That's true, you will get the interest payment, but where

does that interest payment come from? From your taxes!! Haha, gotcha!

Debbie

The Fed has never been truly audited...

This "partial" audit is a joke, but its sure lending light to the fact the Federal Reserve has been loaning out quarter-billion dollar trust funds to Grecian, Turkish banks across the board.

I sure would love to be on the inside of some of those meetings, see which percentage goes where. That's ninety percent of the problem. The Fed are thieves.

The answer is very simple ...

Have you ever owned a T-bill?

Now the FED is holding a lot of the US debt on its books, so the FED is getting the interest on that debt.

China, Japan, and Russia also own a lot of this debt.

Not sure why this is such a big deal.

The big deal should be that the US shouldn't be racking up this debt in the first place.

The Fed is just a conduit.

They give the money to back to the Treasury.

My favorite people in the world: Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Peter Schiff, Judge Napolitano, Milton Friedman, Bob Barr, and John Stossel

What about the principle,

What about the principle, then? So... the FED prints up $1 billion out of thin air... loans it to government at interest... and eventually gets the principle paid back + the interest. It then gives the interest back to the treasury. So who gets the magically created $1 billion principle in the end? The FED. Who needs interest when you can counterfeit the principle?

smoke screen

While it is technically true the Fed sends their profits to the Treasury, they spend most of the money before it drops into the profit bucket.

The Fed owns most economists due to all of the studies they purchase.
Anything left over is spent on first class tickets for Ben, and sending money to their banker friends via paying too much interest on the bank's "excess reserves".

This aspect of the Fed is audited.

The only part of profit that the Fed keeps goes to paying their meager salaries. If you want to get rich, you don't get a job at the Fed. Bernanke's salary is under 200K.

My favorite people in the world: Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Peter Schiff, Judge Napolitano, Milton Friedman, Bob Barr, and John Stossel

You have no proof of this

The Fed has never been fully audited. We have no proof of their salaries.

http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/treasurer/

6%.