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Were the Founding Fathers Alcoholics?

http://www.peele.net/blog/100615.html

A recent bestseller has taken up the cudgels of a longstanding political and religious controversy: Were our founding fathers really religious and, more specifically, Christian? On the one side, humanists point out remarkably little specific mention of Christ in the fathers' (including Lincoln's) public utterances. Rather, they refer to an all-inclusive, generic deity. But advocates for Christianity maintain this should not be taken to dispute our founders' deep, underlying faith in God and belief in the divinity of Christ.

Leaving that contentious debate aside, I want to talk about how much the founding fathers drank. The answer: quite a bit. The New York Times on Sunday published an account of how Jefferson (according to writer Ann Mah he was "a lifelong oenophile") spent a lot of his time in France while representing the United States inspecting the vineyards of Burgundy.

Was Jefferson a closet drinker? He had no reason to hide his love of wine -- no founding father thought it unusual in this pre-Temperance era to love the fruit of the vine or, for that matter, hard cider, beer, or even whiskey and rum. Take Jefferson's primary rival, John Adams. According to a descendant of his, "To the end of John Adams' life, a large tankard of hard cider was his morning draught before breakfast." Get the man to the Betty Ford Center!

How do we know the founding fathers as a group drank a lot? Well, for one thing, we have records of their imbibing. In 1787, two days before they signed off on the Constitution, the 55 delegates to the Constitutional Convention partied at a tavern. According to the bill preserved from the evening, they drank 54 bottles of Madeira, 60 bottles of claret, eight of whiskey, 22 of porter, eight of hard cider, 12 of beer and seven bowls of alcoholic punch.

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The Declaration of Dependence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all drunks are created equal, that they are endeared to the imbibing of certain drinks, that among these are Beer, Whiskey and Wine -- That to secure these beverages, Taverns are instituted among Men, deriving their just profits from the consent of the drunkards...

If the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation...

United States Constitution and virtually all of Jefferson's writings were the work of alcoholics or pot smokers, maybe we all should start.

I think in the 1700's

I think in the 1700's EVERYBODY was an alcoholic.

Here's to Charlie Mops -

Here's to Charlie Mops - http://www.jeuxvideo.com/extraits-videos-jeux/0001/00011739/...

I wonder if they smoked,oh the horror!!!

Maybe a happy hour for congress members before they vote on anything,nah nullification is the only way.

13 No servant can serve two masters; for either he shall hate the one, and love the other, or else he shall lean to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and riches. - Luke 16

My motto...

Moderation - in ALL things - is the key!

-
"Stand up for what you believe in. Even if you stand alone."
~ Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"Let it not be said that we did nothing."
~ Ron Paul
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."
~ Mahatma Gandhi

What about excess in moderation??

Ever think about it?

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Lamb of God - As the Palaces Burn
http://youtu.be/eWVrdFrpXHE

Everything in moderation ....

Everything in moderation .... even moderation

Who cares what they were?

I believe Jefferson was a slave master and fathered two families. His black concubine served the family and most likely milked for his white children.
He died broke with a huge amount of debt screwing someone else over. Hardly a man worthy of admiration. He was fortunate to be schooled and intelligent. He wrote and spoke creatively in his day and was born at just the right time.

Martin Luther (father of the Lutheran protestant movement) was a lawyer convert. A rebellious drunkard who was fortunate to be schooled and intelligent. He wrote and spoke creatively and was born at just the right time.

people be you own hero...

So you're saying our

So you're saying our Constitution is just another instance of "do as I say, not as I do". I can believe that. No one is perfect, so everything we do reflects these imperfections.

Thanks for stating truth

Jefferson showed how he did not even believe in the constitution when he made the louisiana purchase.

Washington showed it with the whiskey rebellion.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Lamb of God - As the Palaces Burn
http://youtu.be/eWVrdFrpXHE

Hateraid

TJ was the man. Nobody's perfect.

George Washington was the biggest

whiskeymaker in America, right there at Mount Vernon.

In a word

YES, Just like every other animal on the planet,we all like to feel happy,now go and fix me a tall one!
______\~/_____

cyber hug

& a song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z-hEyVQDRA

Peace Brother

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Interesting find for me....

...maybe even a Divine Appointment!

I went through his site and perused ... he is not kidding about "addiction"(I love writing, EVERYDAY, I have to flush out the profound thoughts in my brain).

As far as being an alcoholic goes; I grew up in a very upper middle-class suburb of Chicago, I was drinking Old Style at 14 - our parents went to Neil Diamond concerts and bought us neighborhood kids a keg before they left('cuz they KNEW we were gonna find some beer anyway) - I was a water boy for a college football team, and enjoyed a few Blatz's with them guys during high school - when I turned 21 - I loved to drink in downtown Chicago; I love comedy - comedy clubs - the original Saturday Night Live cast and Second City TV; and I grew up listening to Jonathon Brandmeier and Kevin Matthews on Chicago radio.

Went to concerts all over Chicagoland; from Tom Petty to Crosby, Stills & Nash - I had Chicago Bears season tickets from 1983 - 1989 - and all of this coupled with many years of Taste of Chicago, the onset of sports talk radio in the 90's; and all them Championships of our different sports teams ... these were all occasions to drink much beer!

But, enter in the STUPIDITY factor; losing control, being and ALCOHOLIC, and recovering ... naturally, without meetings, support group, or a dollar/minute psychiatrist.

I quit drinking and smoking cold turkey on February 6, 2000. I was gonna write a book called The Last Hangover after I had made an ass out of myself at a company belated Christmas party; and that is when I said, my tolerance for(and love of) drinking until I get my fill was gonna get me in trouble; being my jovial outspoken self.

So, then I spent 7 years in a fundamental, independent, separated Baptist church in Wisconsin; that preached TOTAL abstinence - which was easy to swallow, considering I had a PAST of abusing alcohol ... but now ... having gotten out of the church, having delved into American History - I've realized that I had become a religious bigot, judgmental, and all the repulsive rest of those things that make people want to keep me at arms length.

So, slowly, over the past 5 years; I have allowed myself to take in an occasional adult beverage(or 3, or 5) depending on the circumstances! I do not keep beer in the house too often, I do not like drinking in front of my children. I know many people who have allowed alcohol to ruin their life, impact them in a way that fosters a selfishness; which causes them to make irrational, and stupid decisions that cause others physical harm, and permanently damages relationships - but - I have also learned this CONTROL yourself thing ... and I like it ... it makes sense to me.

What also makes sense is that professing Christians drink - and now - we will all come to know together; fundamentalist, knowledgeable Christians(myself); will occasionally tip a Heineken in the event of having a good time, or, to take the edge off!

This man's research of 4 decades is pretty profound - we can see how strict moralists who want to control everyone BUT themselves can screw it up for the rest of us - what a parallel to the Glenn Beck Christian Nation PARTY run by the Establishment GOP who we KNOW drink on the dime of taxpayers & lobbyists; all the while can't wait to get in front of a crowd of alcohol-hating Evangelicals and tell them how much they love God, and that if re-elected, fiscal conservatism will be their #1 PRIORITY ... what a crowd, eh? A bunch of LIARS and STUPID voters!

Well, such is my blunt commentary of the consumption of adult beverages ... my advice, alcohol consumption is not a Heaven or Hell issue - you will reap what you sow no matter what; just have an OPEN mind, and keep on self-educating yourself, not unto rationalizing into normalcy personal corruption, lying, open immorality, ludeness, adultery and outright destructive vices that only serve to tear down the culture when not restrained; but self-educate yourself unto awareness, and challenge yourself to practice personal self-restraint with your personal Liberty(ya know, practice and exemplify the Golden Rule for America's sake) - well, keep it REAL, man; and, ... CHEERS!

I just can't tolerate alcohol

2 beers will have me praying to the porcelain goddess. But I am cracking a Corona and toasting you, friend:
"I've realized that I had become a religious bigot, judgmental, and all the repulsive rest of those things that make people want to keep me at arms length."

Those are the type of realizations that make people really grow. Thanks for sharing that, and thanks for coming all the way back around to a place of "love and let live."

Love or fear? Choose again with every breath.

good points . . .

well, I have never drunk; I was spiked once, a very small amount, and I got very ill, and my family is raging with alcoholics--

I was young enough when the spiking occurred that I determined I wouldn't touch the stuff (I was underage at the time of spiking--if that is correct word useage)

so--

BUT . . . you're right, Patriots Under God--

I had to stop being self-righteous about whole grains and let myself eat my friends' homemade white bread and say "yum"--

it can happen to any of us; any of us can become narrow and hypocritical and judgemental/condemning.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

omg

you're so much like me. One glass of wine and I'm acting all hippie.

Lightweights...the both of us Aquaponic souls

Thank you so much...

Your words touched the very soul the very core of who I am.

Thank you!

We live on a planet that is in the hands of satan...
but we can still be able to be free living on this planet called earth.

http://www.libertypoet.com/freedomwatch/owners

yep...

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

My thought.... who cares it

My thought.... who cares it was their choice...

well said Sierra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKd5UMYdRjU&feature=channel

This song says a lot...

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Alcoholism (addiction) would explain why the Constitution

was not a document of liberty (sobriety).

*Note: I do not wish "gov't" to regulate any drug or alcohol

If it is not advisable to drive heavy machinery while drunk, maybe slave owners should not write documents on liberty while drunk.

I'm just sayin'

my reply to you my friend

why you are still on this website?...this planet?

Thank you.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

LL, are you being . . .

snarky? *wink*
You've never come across to me as that way.

(*said in good humor and with respect*)

By the way, what on earth (or this planet) does it say about me that LL and Octobox are two of the people on here I most enjoy seeing/reading?

I must be a contradiction, or that was friendly 'razzing'--and I missed it?

In all honesty, this is one of the nicest sites I've ever been on. I've seen more respect on here (though often there is teasing) than on most sites I have frequented, and I have frequented a few.

Octobox, I confess to addictions--not alcohol, but . . . chocolate.

Even though of us who love liberty are only human!

:)

And, btw, I have a lot in commmon with both of you, though I won't say what; I haven't wanted to reveal that much about myself, though, inadvertently, I probably have. I know that privacy is an illusion in today's world.

I actually respect/regard the original constitution (though not the slavery parts)--

but it's been so ripped up by so many dirty hands in power that it's hard not to be dismayed and find it sadly humorous.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

sorry

I was in a gloomy mood last night.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

LL, you don't owe ME an apology--

and probably not Octobox; I have a hunch he's got a pretty wonderful sense of humor.

I was trying to lighten you up and let you know that I appreciate you--

and Octobox.

Sometimes gloom descends--

and I had typos in that post--

arg--

cheer up; there are people counting on you!!!

Listen to some of your happy music--

you have kept me feeling hopeful many times!

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

One cannot be addicted to "chocolate"

......it is essential ;-)

It's heart-food

Why? Because I love burritos

If it wasn't for Mexican and Thai Food and Cuban sandwiches I would of left a long time ago.

Regarding this site? Because you guys need me, on a fundamental level, smile.

Your Welcome (my time and energy is a gift)

Octobox . . .

would you say more?

I mean, you've just made me curious!
*smile*

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

1988

Not sure what you are curious about.

Alcohol is a habituating substance

Habituation that is emotional and/or physiological based is addiction

Addiction is Mental-Emotional-Physical Slavery

Liberty and Liberation require practice and meditation.

Liberty is not habituating -- it must be practiced and re-practiced all the time.

Liberty is perpetual effort (like exercise)

Liberty is the opposite of Addiction

Liberty is Freedom -- The opposite of slavery

To live free of a thing we must perpetually ward it off.

This is why AA members say "Hi, I'm so-and-so, and I'm an alcoholic" -- even though they quit; because "liberty" from alcoholism requires perpetual warding off.

If you enslave others you enslave your self.

A slave owner has a double addiction; one to power and the other to substance.

Thus my exasperation over the continual harkening back mentality displayed by "liberty" proponents over the "wisdom" of inebriated slave owners and their thoughts on liberty. Hahahaha