357 votes

>Gold $1,225 Silver $18.55 Platinum $1,345 Palladium $825 Dollar 84.35

............♘ Daily Paul Metals Thread ♘ ............
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Hidden Secrets Of Money
Part 1 - Currency vs Money
http://youtu.be/DyV0OfU3-FU
Part 2 - Seven Stages Of Empire
http://youtu.be/EdSq5H7awi8
Part 3 - Dollar Crisis To Golden Opportunity
http://youtu.be/y-IemeM-Ado
Part 4 - The Biggest Scam In The History Of Mankind
http://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0
Part 5 - TRUE History Of Money
http://youtu.be/OQWMd_NPSBA
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A Visual History Of Gold link provided by DJP333
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-26/visual-history-gold...
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Gold Manipulation: The Logical Outcome Of Mainstream Economics
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-21/guest-post-gold-man...
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Gold Manipulation: How They Do It (And How To Hedge It)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-02-26/guest-post-gold-man...
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Visualizing Platinum & Palladium's Place In The World
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-24/visualizing-platinu...
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Gold & Silver, Ron Paul: THE TRUTH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-ShSGz89mA&feature=related
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Visualizing All The Silver In The World
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-01/visualizing-all-sil...
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Bitcoin: Rate Charts and Commodity Exchanges
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
https://ounce.me/
........................................................................
Welcome to the Daily Paul Metals thread. This thread was designed to keep all metals questions and comments in one place. At over 19,500 posts, we try to keep the price of Metals in the headline as up to date as possible...but sometimes it can get away from us. Feel free to ask questions about (all) investing here...you will get an array of answers that will help you in your decisions. Remember...any investment can have loses or gains...If we knew exactly where the markets will be tomorrow or a year from now we would all be wealthy.......The people here have strong opinions one way or another, so... Do your own research and then decide if metals are good for you. Ron Paul is a firm believer in holding physical Gold and Silver. Many of us share that same view! Welcome!
NOTE: Thread is now monitored for posting violations.

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How Governments will confiscate your GOLD!!!
http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/gold-confiscation/
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4 Must watch videos...NOTE:These videos give you a heads up of what is coming!
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Madness of a Lost Society (in 4 parts)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyjAHfnu0qc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRvjufH29vE
http://youtu.be/p_Ic_OvIPtU
http://youtu.be/2FZmHBcrk5Q
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The Day the Dollar died...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N8gJSMoOJc
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Gold $5000 and Silver $200 an ounce...

Rob McEwen: Your readers need to appreciate: Gold is money. It is currency. I think the number of people familiar with gold will grow as people see gold as a currency. China, India, Russia are buying gold to diversify their foreign reserves. To restore the confidence in currencies, I think some central banks, such as the Chinese and possibly the Russian, will increase their gold holdings to the level that the percentage of their total currency will be greater than that of any other currency in the world. At that point, they will assert that their currency should become the reserve currency of the world.
Full Read....
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1313942400.php
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Inflation or Deflation....Metals win...
http://news.goldseek.com/ClifDroke/1310933400.php
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Why Deflation is good for Precious Metals:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/183323-why-deflation-is-good...
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Live Charts Here...
http://www.sgxniftydowfutureslive.com/index_files/DOWFUTURES...
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LIVE DOLLAR CHART HERE
http://www.goldseek.com/quotes/charts/usdollar/usdollarindex...
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This thread was started 9/16/10 - here were the prices.

Submitted by SteveMT on Thu, 09/16/2010 - 11:51.

Metal Bid Ask
Gold $1,273.60
Silver $20.73
Platinum $1,602.50
Palladium $546.00

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"Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves."
–Norm Franz, Money and Wealth in the New Millenium

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Top Gold Goodies:
From Mark Twain: It links to one page for Options Expiration & another page for Futures Expiration. It is easy to save or print out for reference all year long. It is a handy reference identifying when US contracts expire for 2014.
http://www.apexfutures.com/trading-tools/expiration-dates/
http://www.heritagewestfutures.com/docs/default-source/defau...
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This is where I watch it happen: http://www.goldseek.com
This is where I buy from: www.apmex.com:
A great read. Think and Stop Investing!
http://www.silverstrategies.com/publications/ThinkandSTOP.pdf
This is an incredible site for watching metals:
http://www.24hgold.com/english/home.aspx
This site monitors all ebay metals prices.Check it out:
http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_gold_coins.aspx?co_id=0
Jim Sinclair - a Great read everyday: http://jsmineset.com
Hard Core Gold site. Great reads: http://321gold.com

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Final flush out this morning.

Final flush out this morning. Time for call options.

I'm quite comfortable...

I am not so smart but I do trust Ron's judgement...and therefore I am cool with everything. Seriously.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
"I know major allies who fund them" Gen. Dempsey

DJP333's picture

And I am confortable with that comment

Seriously. I trust in the things I have learned from Dr. Ron also.

"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different."

DJP333's picture

Interesting afternoon

At 2pm sharp the Dollar shot up and Gold got crushed. Guessing thats all related to the FED press conference.


"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different."

SteveMT's picture

Yup. Yellen was yelling about how great things are.

The buttons were pushed, and you know the rest of the story.

More...

...Tapering.

DJP333's picture

Gold and Silver End Game Here

Greg Hunter interviews John Embry, Chief Investment Strategist at Sprott Asset Management.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4xr_CoG1wI

http://usawatchdog.com/gold-and-silver-end-game-here-john-em...

"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different."

This thread now 4 years old

this thread was created four years ago, around the time of QE2 (I think before QE2 but might have been a few weeks after) and according to the main body of the thread taken directly from this comment on the first page of this thread http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/1537586
the prices at that time were:

Gold $1,273.60
Silver $20.73
Platinum $1,602.50
Palladium $546.00

Now, using the prices listed in the current title of this thread as updated by SteveMT, let us compare prices now versus then:

Gold $1235, DOWN $38.60
Silver $18.70, DOWN $2.03
Platinum $1365, DOWN $237.50
Palladium $840, UP $294

So what did all that hyperinflationary quantitative easing bring us? NET DEFLATION. Imagine if the fed did nothing.

P.S. Everyone go to the first page of this thread and read what was being said ... LMFAO.

Where do you think...

Where do you think that silver and gold would be trading if the mysterious "Belgium" buyer didn't magically appear months ago and start buying up tens of billions of dollars of our debt?

Does anyone even stop and wonder how this tiny country can purchase more debt than it even has GDP?

Has the metals crowd underestimated the levels of fraud and corruption that would be used to depress gold/silver? Yes. Will this continue indefinitely. No.

It's all fun and games until there is no more physical that can be delivered.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

Where do you think....

> "Has the metals crowd underestimated the levels of fraud and corruption that would be used to depress gold/silver? Yes. Will this continue indefinitely. No."

Yes it will.

Where do you think there is anything either in current Law, or current COMEX rules that would ever prevent J.P. Morgan from flooding the market with paper certificates?

As long as they do this, then the prices will remain artificially depressed. Who is going to stop them? You?

And what the so-called "experts" don't realize here is that it does not matter a hoot whether or not there are delays in delivery or not (due to under supply). There is no mechanism or force which can compel or require instant delivery of everything anyway. This is a myth. The corruption won't ever stop anymore than Fractional Reserve Lending (generating non-existent money exponentially) will stop.

Understand that the flooding and low prices are institutionally designed to be a perpetual thing --- not some innocent accident to somehow be magically "corrected". It is a paradigm designed (by intent) for the numbers not to ever add up (and to be intentionally uncorrectable).

Fraud does not ever "correct" itself. Somebody has to actually stop it, and somebody has go to Jail -- if and before the "fun and games" ever are to be ended.


That was an entertaining post

That was an entertaining post. Nothing about it correct, but entertaining.

We're in the beginning stages of a petrodollar collapse and rise of the Chinese Yuan. The physical gold/silver markets in the East will soon be determining prices...but if you are so sure of continued dollar strength and the security of dollar denominated US paper assets...by all means put your money where your mouth is and stay invested in them.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

I agree, but....


I agree about the movement away from the Petro dollar -- although this is largely held in place anyway because of U.S. "regime change" Military policy violence targeted at the uncooperative Nations (followed by a private Central Bank setup). Libya is a good example of this.

I also agree the Yuan will rise, but this has little impact on the exchange (spot) price of either Gold (1200) or Silver (18)

The Exchange price (which is the thing that matters if you want to buy food, or pay bills) is controlled not by anything "the East" does, or either how much Gold it buys or does not buy. The Exchange price is not controlled by supply and demand on a pure physical level.

The Exchange price is controlled by the paper flooding and COMEX. As long as this activity remains legal then there is nothing that can stop the artificial suppression of the Exchange price.

That is my point --- not that I believe it is a "good idea" to invest in dollars. I don't. But the point is just that this game is a rigged game. And since all currencies are pegged together with the dollar --- the dollar will never technically "crash" like Germany or Argentina. All that will happen is that the middle-class will get progressively poorer (or disappear) as ALL CURRENCIES are dragged down in lock-step together. Yet the RICH Oligarchs will continue to prosper and horde the World Resources for themselves (for who will stop them? ... nobody has ever stopped The Rothschilds and their control system: Nobody. Not even the alleged "American Revolution").

And since Gold and Silver are treated and handled and bought and sold like paper assets, they will also go down or stay flat -- without any meteoric rise.

The Exchange price is controlled by design.

But when the exchange price for Silver ($18) goes to $200, let me know ... okay?
I'll be happy to retract these statements at that time.

The physical price will

The physical price will eventually disengage from the paper price. China appears to be willing to go along with the paper schemes as long as they are able to still secure physical at paper prices. They have no problem paying less for it. China's massive demand is only being met by stockpiles that HAD accumulated in western vaults over the past decades. This supply is running dry.

So, what happens when past supplies are gone and worldwide annual production is not sufficient to cover demand? China and other countries raise the bid. $1300, $1400, $1500, $1600....$3000 and on and on.

How can you possibly have a paper market at $1200 (or less) an ounce for gold when a country like China is willing to pay substantially higher for the real thing.

How can you continue a suppressed paper market if the low prices are forcing miners out of business?

Quite an arrogant statement..."the dollar will never technically "crash" like Germany or Argentina". Right, because of the American Exceptionalism? Because math no longer applies?

$200 silver doesn't even remotely interest me. I didn't buy it just to exchange it later for more worthless fiat currency.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

SteveMT's picture

Thanks for catching the 4-year anniversary of this thread.

I can only say that four years is not a long enough window to see what inevitably must happen. All paper will go to zero. However, four years is not sufficient.

I got into metal at the end of 2008 and early 2009. The average prices back then including commissions were the following:

Gold: $960
Silver: $14.60
Palladium: $240 (The best investment to date I ever made.)

Not one of those buys has lost anything. I know that timing acquisitions is everything, so what's your opinion. Did I choose well?

There is no doubt that many including me have underestimated how long this system would last. What was not known four years ago was the true extent of involvement of the other central banks with propping up this fiat system and that the dollar would still be the reserve currency of the world. If the money masters have their hands on all of the controls, manipulate all of the markets, and own all of the politicians, how long they can make this sham system work is anyone's guess. Printing money out of thin air will lead to inflation is basic Econ 101, not rocket science. We are all learning that patience IS a virtue. Your skepticism and dose of reality are both appreciated. Metal is real is what matters most to me.

...

Did you choose well? Well, you certainly have gains on those orginal purchases from late 2008 and early 2009, but you could have achieved similar or greater gains by throwing a dart at a stock page at that time, which was the end of a deflationary period and the beginning of a reflationary period. Virtually everything has gone up since then during the re-flation of the past 5 years, and that reflationary period is ending soon, if it has not already ended.

But haven't you been adding to those original purchases ("stacking") since then? I doubt you have gains on your average of all your purchases.

As you said, timing is everything, and just saying "metal is real" is not going to help you much. Remember, money that was created out of thin air can disappear into thin air too.

SteveMT's picture

I didn't want to be in the system. I wanted out.

I went Galt as much as I could. No stacking since then. I'm done, because of other expenses. I did this at the right time. I got out of the dollar as much as I could. I would disagree with you about metal not being real money. If the paper goes south, the metal remains a real commodity that can be sold or traded. Paper can be created quickly and can disappear just as fast like you have said. However, the metal will remain.

Ron

Asset allocation dictates you spread the risk. With metals @ 5% to 10% of one's portfolio and the rest in stocks, bonds, real estate, I would say most have done well with that allocation. Also, not everyone bought gold at $1,900 where gold was for a very short time.

The question is, what would a prudent investor do today? What does your crystal ball say as a percentage you would allocate to gold versus stocks?

Mine says take from what is at the highs and put some into what is at the lows (although it very well could go lower, understood).

Will be an interesting Fed meeting result today.

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

Whatever you do one should keep their eyes on China

American's are living a pipe dream, in no why can this current system continue.

We have been buying everything from China, China holds over a trillion of our dollars, and is using those dollars to buy gold and silver. In the past, they have been part of the manipulation so as to acquire more gold and silver.

I think the FED sold or leased all the gold it stole from the people long ago, Fort Knox holds only cob webs. If I am right and the physical gold market is low, what will happen when the Chinese gold market gets up and running? The Chinese will only use the paper market to obtain the physical gold. I doubt the Chinese will wait for the existing paper market to produce the gold. At some time in the near future China will put out a bid for your gold that will be much higher than the Comex paper market. They have all those dollars that will soon be worthless to them, why wouldn't they use those dollars to obtain as much gold as possible.

I think one plays the paper market at one's own peril, I think it's time to own physical. If one doesn't want to be in the gold and silver market, they better own lots of food. Myself, I am putting up lots of hay in my barn to feed all the animals I just purchased. As soon as the crops are harvested I'll be storing lots of grain, non-GMO of course.

The dollar may be king for the time being, but when everyone realizes there is no gold or silver left, it will all change almost overnight. With almost $18T of debt, there is no way this system can continue. The actual debt is more like $100T.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

That's my situation.

I watched as the gold boat sailed away when i was a potential buyer at 450...500 and almost went in at 1900 only to get some advice to hold out. I was encouraged to ride the FED and stick it out with stock market, even add a lot to it. So I did, and so far, my guy has been a big right. With that said, I always have those butterflies in my stomach at such highs, but in reality, who says we can't go to a DOW of 20K?

For no rhyme or reason I've picked gold at 800 or 700 to buy in a good portion, but that just me.

So what does one do with say......----> a made up number of 1 million in stock now? Buy bubbled real estate? Buy PM's that are trending down? Stay with dividend growth stocks in good companies that look do well in this environment? Cash out in electronic dollars?

The stock market crashed in 2008 and is only in the final

stages of the crash. The stock market went down and like a dead cat bounce it went back up, it would have crashed much lower if the FED hadn't pumped trillions into it. So now it's going to be a much bigger crash than ever, because it must correct all the fraud and manipulation.

When it starts do crash no one will be able to get out, because everyone will be selling and no one will be buying. Gold and silver won't be available, because they will continue to climb in price daily. Markets will be closed down daily to stop the panic buying and selling!

Right now the markets are highly manipulated. What reason would there be to have gold down to $700 to 800? The cost of mining is around $1300, this would ensure the mines closing down. $800 gold is never going to happen!

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

doug

That allocation works fine during inflationary/reflationary periods, which most americans alive today have enjoyed for most of our lifetimes. But if one is anticipating deflation, as I am, than a prudent investor would have very little in stocks, metals, and real estate. Holding some metals is okay, and maybe even a few carefully chosen stocks, but I would not be in real estate (as an investment) at all. Cash will be king (unless you want to speculate with leveraged bearish bets).

I have been short or flat metals for 3 years. I expect to begin shorting stocks again very soon, and probably bonds too. Maybe even some crude oil. Virtually everything is going lower (except the dollar).

fireant's picture

The one thing I and others can't grasp is...

why would the fed continue tightening in the face of spreading deflation? I agree that deflation is gaining the upper hand, esp in Europe. Gold and the dollar indicate it's coming here as well. Is it pure politics? It just makes no sense that the fed would risk increasing the cost of debt in any significant manner. Thoughts? (You and Doug)

Undo what Wilson did

fireant

the Fed always acts after the fact. They threw $8 trillion at the last crisis "after" the fact. Presently they believe the b.s. economic data. And when their goals change without them getting what they want, they change the goal posts. For example, remember when the Fed used the unemployment rate reaching a certain level as a benchmark? Then when the rate was creeping closer, they changed the language (goal posts).

What happens next? The Fed is clueless and won't do anything but react. Just think for a moment what higher rates really means to everything; the economy, real estate demand, bonds, stock market, national debt. Scary stuff. But for now, the Fed is relevant and has been and that can't be discounted or it could cost you.

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

ron

we're pretty much in agreement on deflation. Keep in mind thought that Central Banks won't let deflation take hold the way you might think it will. They will fight it tooth and nail. They have to for their "system" to function.

The value of real estate is irrelevant if one is not selling and taking an income from it. Rents aren't going to go down for their income stream much. And when inflation comes, they can raise rents.

Stocks will at some point take a hit. Based on P/E ratios historically we are at an overvalued timeframe. Doesn't mean the stock market can't go higher first.

Cheers!

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

What are your opinions of James Rickards? Anyone?

http://pro.moneymappress.com/MMRBSSH39/PMMRQ823/?iris=252778...

Here Forbes weighs in: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2014/04/28/is-james-r...

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

DJP333's picture

I enjoy listening to Jim Rickards.

He definitely prescribes to Austrian economic principles and understands the global banker game better than most. DP has a lot of good videos and articles by him...

http://www.dailypaul.com/324276/great-interview-watch-peter-...
http://www.dailypaul.com/314342/jim-rickards-predicting-sdr-...
http://www.dailypaul.com/319737/the-death-of-money-qa-with-j...
http://www.dailypaul.com/320115/the-end-of-money-jim-rickard...
http://www.dailypaul.com/159357/james-rickards-defends-ron-p...

"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different."

China moves to increase its influence over gold prices

Monday the 15th of September 2014
The Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) will launch its international board for gold trading in the city's free-trade zone (FTZ) on 29 September 2014. When trading begins on this date, investors will be able to trade 11 bullion contracts on the SGE - 8 existing contracts and 3 new contracts.

The new physical bullion spot contracts will allow investors registered with the FTZ to take delivery of gold weighing 100 grams, 1 kilogram and 12.5 kilograms to and from vaults in the FTZ. This latest move aims to attract foreign investors with hedging needs such as LBMA-accredited banks, big refineries and other companies in the gold industry.

The launch of the yuan-denominated board carries at least 2 major objectives - to allow China to have a greater influence on the pricing of gold and boost the use of the yuan in global trade. “The free-trade-zone gold trading will boost use of the yuan currency..., and help pave the way for the yuan to be a global currency,” said Xu Luode, the chairman of the SGE.

China's ambition is undoubtedly to develop Shanghai into the world's biggest physical gold market. This is unsurprising since China overtook India last year to become the largest producer and consumer of the yellow metal. Gaining pricing power of gold in the East is a logical step since Asia accounted for 63 percent of gold consumption in the form of jewellery, coins and bars.

The Chinese bourse will also introduce contracts for other precious metals such as silver and platinum in the near future. For a country that is accumulating records amount of physical gold, China is taking major steps to muscle its way into the the pricing of gold which has so far been determined by western exchanges in London and New York. It is also elevating the status of the yuan as a potential reserve currency by making it a currency that is more liquid and convertible in international trade.

Reprinted with permission.

beesting

DJP333's picture

Yuanification continues around the world

The British government intend to be the first nation (ex-China) to issue Renminbi denominated bonds and to use the proceeds to finance the government's reserves of foreign currency.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-15/uk-hints-next-reser...
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/business/2014-09/13/c_1269...

"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different."

SteveMT's picture

16-years of Platinum Fixing Under The Microscope


16 year average intra-day platinum price – the PM fixing stands out …

A close-up of the time period surrounding the afternoon fixing (EST)
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-10/platinum-fixing-und...

DJP333's picture

Harvey Organ -

Manipulation of Gold and Silver Definitely Ends This Year

"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different."