352 votes

>Gold $1,300 Silver $19.50 Platinum $1,440 Palladium $795 Dollar 79.75

............♘ Daily Paul Metals Thread ♘ ............
Hidden Secrets Of Money
Part 1 - Currency vs Money
Part 2 - Seven Stages Of Empire
Part 3 - Dollar Crisis To Golden Opportunity
Part 4 - The Biggest Scam In The History Of Mankind
A Visual History Of Gold link provided by DJP333
Gold Manipulation: The Logical Outcome Of Mainstream Economics
Gold Manipulation: How They Do It (And How To Hedge It)
Visualizing Platinum & Palladium's Place In The World
Gold & Silver, Ron Paul: THE TRUTH
Visualizing All The Silver In The World
Bitcoin: Rate Charts and Commodity Exchanges
Welcome to the Daily Paul Metals thread. This thread was designed to keep all metals questions and comments in one place. At over 19,000 posts, we try to keep the price of Metals in the headline as up to date as possible...but sometimes it can get away from us. Feel free to ask questions about (all) investing here...you will get an array of answers that will help you in your decisions. Remember...any investment can have loses or gains...If we knew exactly where the markets will be tomorrow or a year from now we would all be wealthy.......The people here have strong opinions one way or another, so... Do your own research and then decide if metals are good for you. Ron Paul is a firm believer in holding physical Gold and Silver. Many of us share that same view! Welcome!
NOTE: Thread is now monitored for posting violations.

How Governments will confiscate your GOLD!!!
4 Must watch videos...NOTE:These videos give you a heads up of what is coming!
Madness of a Lost Society (in 4 parts)
The Day the Dollar died...
Gold $5000 and Silver $200 an ounce...

Rob McEwen: Your readers need to appreciate: Gold is money. It is currency. I think the number of people familiar with gold will grow as people see gold as a currency. China, India, Russia are buying gold to diversify their foreign reserves. To restore the confidence in currencies, I think some central banks, such as the Chinese and possibly the Russian, will increase their gold holdings to the level that the percentage of their total currency will be greater than that of any other currency in the world. At that point, they will assert that their currency should become the reserve currency of the world.
Full Read....
Inflation or Deflation....Metals win...
Why Deflation is good for Precious Metals:

Live Charts Here...
This thread was started 9/16/10 - here were the prices.

Submitted by SteveMT on Thu, 09/16/2010 - 11:51.

Metal Bid Ask
Gold $1,273.60
Silver $20.73
Platinum $1,602.50
Palladium $546.00

"Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves."
–Norm Franz, Money and Wealth in the New Millenium

Top Gold Goodies:
From Mark Twain: It links to one page for Options Expiration & another page for Futures Expiration. It is easy to save or print out for reference all year long. It is a handy reference identifying when US contracts expire for 2014.
This is where I watch it happen: http://www.goldseek.com
This is where I buy from: www.apmex.com:
A great read. Think and Stop Investing!
This is an incredible site for watching metals:
This site monitors all ebay metals prices.Check it out:
Jim Sinclair - a Great read everyday: http://jsmineset.com
Hard Core Gold site. Great reads: http://321gold.com

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Cyril's picture

"Did you... seeeee.. the memooo... about this?..."

"Did you... seeeee.. the memooo... about this?..."


"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.


"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius


I worked for an a*shole just like this....He's in jail now.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
"I have one word for you...predator drones. Oh, you think I'm kidding?" Obombya

SteveMT's picture

Is that why JPM threatened Putin & later backed down?

JPMorgan Unhalts Russian Money Transfer
Because after shocking the world with its unilateral decision to halt Russian money transfers without a direct order from the administration, Reuters reports that JPM has folded and will process said payment from Russia's embassy in Kazakhstan to insurance agency Sogaz, easing tension after Moscow accused the U.S. bank of illegally blocking the transaction under the pretext of sanctions.

In other words, Putin 1 - Jamie Dimon 0.

I can't keep up with all the

I can't keep up with all the revelations on The Road to Roota just this week.


...and this is just the beginning.

I have posted my latest Private Road article that includes topics related what is happening here:


Topics this week include:

- Bix Weir: Interview on "Current Events"
- HFT Revelations Build Momentum
- Bitcoin Pronounced Dead AGAIN...Bahaha!
- Janet "The Patsy" Yellen Being Thrown Under the Bus
- Fight: "The Weasel" JP Morgan vs. "The Bear" Russia...OVER!
- Regulators Hint at Doing Their Job...SOON!
- Even Fed Members Bailing on Fed

I always know that things are on track when the traditional "Bix Bashers" go silent...


I love the peace and quiet :-)

If you would like to join the Private Road I'd suggest you do so quickly while "the system" is still functioning and I still have free silver coins left. It's a bargain at $199 for a full year and access to over 1,300 articles about how we got here and where we are going. This includes my Timeline articles which outline the near future events to look for. The sign-up fee is even a bigger bargain if you use Bitcoin!!

Here's the link to subscribe:


Stay safe out there and keep an eye out for more revelations on Friday night after the close of the markets :-)

May the Road you choose be the Right Road.

Bix Weir

For over 6 years people have

For over 6 years people have been on the DP educating others about manipulation. A few of the Prechter clan loved to mock us about how Bix Weir was wrong etc. and the prices went down because of "deflation" etc. Now all this info on manipulation is hitting mainstream and the Prechter cult is silent. CLASSIC. Things are taking a little longer then I thought they would take but pretty soon the metals will be free to seek their true value. A very small few here would make fun of Bix and Ted Butler, They won't be.

I am looking for one more major sell off. JPM will get on sides in silver unless Putin wants to shove it up JPM's ass and start buying up all the physical silver. They could do it easily.

Kitco, of all places, has posted an interview with a gold trader in which he describes how COMEX price rigging is accomplished through High Frequency Trading.

You can find it here:

Can HFT "Spoof" Gold Ahead of Jobs - Vince Lanci

What is described by Mr. Lanci just barely scratches the surface of what is REALLY done in the COMEX computer rigging programs by the Bullion Banks and HFT-ers...but it's a good start.

Here's a bigger question for the Criminally Complicit Kitco and their mouthpiece Daniela Cambone...


What is being described is 100% ILLEGAL and it is the reason everyone is screaming that the gold market is RIGGED. These two nonchalantly chat it up as if it's no big deal! Why aren't they calling for investigations? Why aren't they blown away by the revelations of computer price rigging? I know why...


And so are the rest of the Mainstream Media Stooges!

Prediction...Kitco is about to pull out an interview with Jeffrey Christian (as their resident expert) to explain how High Frequency Traders are just helping to facilitate trades by adding LIQUIDITY. Then Cambone will state "Looks like we have two different views on this subject"...


There are no varying views. It's 100% illegal to "Spoof" trades. It's 100% illegal to manipulate prices. It's 100% illegal to trade on "Non-Public" information. It's 100% illegal to not settle NAKED short positions at the DTCC. It's 100% illegal to dump thousands of contracts onto the market to force out stop losses.

All of it....ILLEGAL!

This illegal price manipulation has cost people BILLIONS AND BILLIONS of Dollars and the criminals who perpetrate these rigging games (and those who cover for them) have walked away with immunity.

It's time to call them out.

Let Kitco know that unless they announce that these trades are illegal then THEY ARE JUST AS GUILTY AS THE MARKET RIGGERS!


May the Road you choose be the Right Road.

Bix Weir

DJP333's picture

Another blow to the petrodollar coming

Iran and Russia have made progress towards an oil-for-goods deal sources said would be worth up to $20 billion, which would enable Tehran to boost vital energy exports in defiance of Western sanctions, people familiar with the negotiations told Reuters.

The source said the two sides were looking at a barter arrangement that would see Iranian oil being exchanged for industrial goods including metals and food, but said there was no military equipment involved. The source added that the deal was expected to reach $15 to $20 billion in total and would be done in stages with an initial $6 billion to $8 billion tranche.


"Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves."

$3.1 Billion flee PIMCO in March, $52.1 billion in 11 months


My company's 401k is through PIMCO and I jettisoned my funds from their hands in December.

Maybe I should post this in that thread about animals fleeing Yellowstone....

Southern Agrarian

As you see, no rigging. No hoops. Hope you like what you see.

[Click photo for details]

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

[Click photo for details]

I still have a few more questions.


Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

All the financial news

All the financial news channels are up in arms that Michael Lewis said what we already know...


But when dealing in the world of high speed market rigging the WORLD has to understand that the MOTHER SHIP of computer rigging happens in the gold and silver markets!

Just link these culprits together....IT'S EASY!!

1) Virtu Financial is one of the largest HFT trading firms bragging of having only 1 losing day in 1,238 trading days.

2) Virtu (once called EWT, LLC) was started by Vincent Viola (ex-NYMEX Chairman) and David Salomon (ex-Goldman Sachs commodity trader reporting to ex-US Treasury Secretary, Robert Rubin)

3) Virtu was the only Private Company allowed to be an "Authorized Participant" in both the Silver ETF (SLV) and the Gold ETF (GLD).

4) Virtu holds no long or short position in markets but trades in massive volumes in milliseconds to "improve prices". That was in their own words!

This is not rocket science my friends. Virtu helps rig the gold and silver markets too!! For the last 3 years I have SCREAMED about computer market rigging at the Silver Summit and this year I will SCREAM about it again.

I laid it all out way back in January 2008...

Who's The Little Man Behind the Curtain?

We are SOOO close to exposing the rigging of gold and silver once and for all!

May the Road you choose be the Right Road.

Bix Weir

DJP333's picture

Gold surge this morning

we haven't seen this in a while


"Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves."

Putin fears?

I dunno, .... I'd go with simple resistance from below.

There Is No Silver Shortage, discuss

please don't down-vote without comment.
i love my silver coins and i'm holding but i don't think i'll be putting $1000's more into silver anytime soon, probably hundreds though but only semi-numismatics (pandas, kookaburras, silver wolves), no more eagles or boring generic rounds.

Official Daily Paul BTC address: 16oZXSGAcDrSbZeBnSu84w5UWwbLtZsBms
My ฿itcoin: 17khsA7MvBJAGAPkhrFJdQZPYKgxAeXkBY

One does not need to believe

in a silver shortage to believe in silver price manipulation.

SteveMT's picture

FBI is going to investigate high frequency trading?!

How long will it take them to decide that there was nothing improperly done?
*FBI Working With SEC, CFTC in High-Speed Investigation
*FBI Investigating Whether High-Speed Firms Trade on Nonpublic Information

DJP333's picture


are going into major damage control about the whole HFT thing. People need to stop putting money into the markets and stop watching the lies on CNBC, except Santelli, he's still cool.


"Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves."

DJP333's picture

The FED was busy in March

As part of its intervention in the currency market to get the dollar back over 80, the Fed also needed to stop gold from rising back over $1400, which it was on the verge of doing by the middle of March. Just like 80 is key level, below which technical selling of the dollar kicks in, $1425 is another key level for gold for which large buy and short-covering orders would be triggered. In other words, to support any manipulated move higher in the dollar, the Fed needed to intervene in the gold market to force the price of gold lower.


"Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves."

DJP333's picture

Good morning PM manipulation


"Gold is the money of kings; silver is the money of gentlemen; barter is the money of peasants; but debt is the money of slaves."

Same as it ever was...


Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

Re-posting my reply to a comment made 9 days ago

Here is the link to the comment. Please read it first. My reply is below. Mark 9989 asked some good questions.


My reply:

Mark, sorry to get back to you so late, but been transitioning to my new place to write. I'll address some of what you ask. You bring up some good points.

You first bring up the fact that all bubbles will pop and dollars become scarce. This is the Nicole Foss or "Stoneleigh" theory who I quoted in my book and have met at a Sustainability conference in Detroit (along with economists Steve Keen who I also quote in the book). Nicole is the deflation camp and I discussed dollars vs. gold and I think we both make valid points. Her view is to hoard dollars. Mine is to hoard dollars and gold. But only one of those two has a track record of maintaining purchasing power over time.

I have been in the deflationary credit contraction camp since the release of my book in 2010, and addressed this in Chapter 4 where I quoted many Austrian economists who disagree with the Lew Rockwell/Peter Schiff crowd (including Mish Shedlock, Steve Keen and George Reisman to name a few). Where I think the other Austrian's miss out is their definition of inflation in that they don't address the credit expansion. But Mises did in his crack up boom theory, so I am dumbfounded as to why they never mention it. Why else would the Fed be implementing QE to fight deflation? They aren't worried about inflation at all.

During the 2008 crisis, gold did take a hit at first, but finished the year positive. No other asset could wear that honor. Gold rebounded well before the stock market did. It was in Sept. of 2010 I wrote an article "I'm Calling a Top on Gold and Silver Trades" where I wrote; "Gold reached a high today of $1314.10 and is presently has an ask price of $1310.40. The HUI is at 512.56, down $1.00. Below is the data as of the writing of this article." (the graphs have disappeared from some of my old articles and I haven't had time to put them back yet). Gold is about the same price as it was then, but the HUI is down to 224.

You say that you are a doomsdayer, and my next two books will hopefully convince you that it's not all doom and gloom. Sure, I can point the doom and gloom picture better than most, but I see the glass as half full despite this. I see opportunity everywhere. Stocks may tank. Real Estate may tank. But one can still profit from this.

While I promote and sell physical gold and silver ownership, or what I call "real wealth," not an "Illusion of Wealth," I have been one of the few calling the ups and downs of the markets quite well. A gold and silver "trader" can play NUGT and DUST and make a good amount of profit along the way. But this game isn't for everyone and there is risk, especially if you don't know much about trading (like most). A holder of physical gold doesn't care about price as much as knowing they have insurance against what they foresee coming.

But all this talk about convincing one of inflation (which will come by the way) and deflation, is moot. It's a distraction from the real issues of the Fed's balance sheet and the eventual implosion of the banking system because of just a few bad banks. It's all about the banks and always will be. But "this time it will be different."

I haven't written my "all-in" article yet, but I will. I have over 2000 comments over at Seeking Alpha where I challenge any and everyone on their articles and thinking. I have fought with Seeking Alpha editors since the beginning on publishing my articles, before they even had a "Gold and Precious Metals" category. They are biased towards ETFs and Stocks and force the authors to include those in their articles. I got tired of their game and stopped writing for them, but still comment on the articles. You can find my comments here: http://seekingalpha.com/author/doug-eberhardt/comments

If one had a million dollars right now, I would buy some physical gold with some of it (to fulfill my allocation goals), dollar cost averaging into a position, hoping the price goes lower so I can have an overall better price. The rest I would trade. People have to become more proactive with their investments. They can't rely on a financial advisor to take care of them because they failed them in 2008. The next crisis will be worse. But it's not just about us here in the U.S. the whole world will be chasing gold, what little of it there is.

As far as thoughts of manipulation that some constantly bring up, who cares? Everything is manipulated. Politicians are bought. Insiders and Market Makers at the NYSE do what they want with their stocks. It took just two Hunt brothers to manipulate the silver market. Gold and silver are the smallest of markets and I have written about the increased derivatives trading in precious metals. This shouldn't be a shock to anyone. I'd do the same thing if I had the funds the banks did. How else can banks make profits these days? From loans? lol

I agree with paying attention to the other side. You really have to think outside the box. Not too many Americans do. That's why reading the Daily Paul is such a pleasure.

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

Thank you for taking the time.

Thank your for your response.

I wonder if the FED's did not quantitative ease or the give those early bailouts, how the PM's would have responded? Or eventually settled at?

Although I agree with both the hoarding of dollars and gold/silver, I too think that doomsday may not hit exactly the way many of us/those think here. I also believe there exist ways to actually come through a bad scenario, perhaps even wealthier.

I’ve said this before. In fact I’ll just repost some of it. I never here speculation from anyone as to how they feel ( as many options as they would like to submit ) a global or US currency collapse would play out, or how it has played out in other historical collapses. Does anyone ever speculate what will happen to the dollars, electronic or actual cash once a global currency collapse occurs? Is all lost, or are dollars traded in on a 1 for 1 or 100 for 1 basis for the new currency? For those invested in stock ( like me ) and where those particular companies do well in the crisis. We paid into the market with dollars. Will we be paid out in new currency or is all lost? I just cant see us being Zimbabwe. It may take time to reboot, but we do have resources. We will also simply blame "them" for what has happened to us and go to war. Someone always has to be the scapegoat.

If we view the "elites" as generally "working in concert" as Jim Rickards mentioned, then will it really be the end of the dollar or a restructuring of the monetary system, ie...change the rules of the game? Maybe we go from a currency war to a hot war, and to the winner ( the US ) goes the spoils? Maybe we open up our oil and natural gas reserves, and declare an oil standard? Maybe we just keep everyone's gold and take gold from "terrorist" countries that we invade. Heck, we may just keep all of Germany, Japans etc gold. Maybe as an alternative to nuclear war or some form of a hot war, the G10, G20 nations will hold a global currency reevaluation based on commodity based currency …? Gold, agri-land, oil, food, water, industrial capacity?

Maybe the plan is for a global currency crash and then an introduction of a new one world currency or is the current US dollar (Federal Reserve Note) going to be the one world currency? Maybe the SDR under the control of the IMF will be the new reserve?!

I cant help but wonder as they build more and more IKEA's, Walmart's, Home Depots, Best Buys, coca cola's etc... that those now or future global corps don't want to give up on US consumerism disease.

I think war could very well be the end game of all this, or a deal for multiple world superpowers and no longer just the US. Or maybe we get used to eight dollar gas, 10 dollar milk, etc...?

A fellow DP’er and I were discussing this and he felt that what will happen is a sudden drying up of credit (liquidity), which is in fact what we call money...the circulation of promissory notes, in digital form today. This will make it impossible for anyone to pay off debts, if all they possess is digital money, since their bank accounts will be frozen. The banks will foreclose to secure real property on their books. Of course this property will be falling in value as a result of this forced expropriation. The banks will then have to use any savers' deposits over and above the insured value to bolster their reserves, the so-called "bail-in" option and governments will probably confiscate all private pensions.

Again. I like the idea of hoarding cash and PM’s but would I go all in now, or even back after the 08 crash? I often feel like it, but can also see this game play out many different ways and also for a longer time. It’s all about timing and staying on that moving curve ( which for now and since 08', is heavily into stocks ). It’s the “timing” part that stresses me out the most.

Gold and cash


I am in the camp of, "I'm not worried about it."

Gold should be viewed as insurance and cash is king and can be used to buy (trade) dips in any sector, with a predetermined stop and profit objective. It can also be used to short (buy the inverse) of any sector, but you won't find too many advisors who will recommend it and Hedge Fund angers can't even beat the indexes.

Any speculation on what "may" occur with currencies is overblown hyperbole.

Investing and growing one's wealth takes some understanding of course, but it doesn't have to be complicated.

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

Do you think economist like John williams have it all wrong?


There are a lot of dollars off shore that are going to come back at some time. Also the fact that the dollar is just a ponzi scheme destined to fail at some point. I don't want to be holding too many dollars if either case happens.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

John Williams same call for hyperinflation every year

Hi Beeman,

Years ago I subscribed to John Williams Shadowstats. I jokingly said at the time to my Dad and my best friend that it seems Williams views every piece of data as negative, meaning he only sees the glass half empty. I have concluded this is true with his persistent hyperinflation calls every single year in and year out.

As far as the dollar goes, like all currencies, it is a ponzi scheme. But which of these ponzi currencies will be the last one standing? I am making the case that the Euro and Yen, which make up 70% of the Dollar Index, have a weaker case than the dollar which still has the world's largest and strongest military backing it. One simply cannot discount this.

Notice how strong treasuries are despite all the QE the Fed has thrown at it? Despite the Fed's balance sheet? The Fed and the Dollar are simply "perceived" by the general investing public to be exactly where they are today. I make the case that at some point, there will be issues, of course. In putting the pieces of the puzzle together, and keep in mind I sell gold and believe in the longer term price appreciation of gold, that the dollar and gold will move higher together. But I do think we will still have some pressure with gold, barring any bounce at present since we have come down rather quickly the last two weeks.

Those who believe in gold won't like what I have to say, that's fine. But at the same time, I'm ok with my track record. You won't find a bigger bull around once I finally do write my "all-in" article. But I still won't be screaming hyperinflation like Williams. Inflation will come. Gold and silver will more than double/triple over time. How high they will go depends on many factors and is rather foolish to predict. At some point though, an investor in gold will have to make decisions on whether or not to sell, as we simply don't know what Congress or the Fed may do in the future. We are years away from that occurring. However I do admit, this time it will be different (unlike 2008 and the Fed's orchestral manoeuvres in the dark).

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

SteveMT's picture

Japanese Scramble To Buy Physical Gold

Japanese Prepare For "Abenomics Failure", Scramble To Buy Physical Gold

According to the FT, "Tanaka Kikinzoku Jewelry, a precious metals specialist, reported that sales of gold ingots across seven of its shops are up more than 500% this month. At the company’s flagship store in Ginza on Thursday, people queued for up to three hours to buy 500g bars worth about Y2.3m ($22,500). March has been the busiest month in Tanaka’s 120-year history."

16$ Silver

1100$ gold to come