353 votes

>Gold $1,305 Silver $19.65 Platinum $1,435 Palladium $800 Dollar 79.80

............♘ Daily Paul Metals Thread ♘ ............
Hidden Secrets Of Money
Part 1 - Currency vs Money
Part 2 - Seven Stages Of Empire
Part 3 - Dollar Crisis To Golden Opportunity
Part 4 - The Biggest Scam In The History Of Mankind
A Visual History Of Gold link provided by DJP333
Gold Manipulation: The Logical Outcome Of Mainstream Economics
Gold Manipulation: How They Do It (And How To Hedge It)
Visualizing Platinum & Palladium's Place In The World
Gold & Silver, Ron Paul: THE TRUTH
Visualizing All The Silver In The World
Bitcoin: Rate Charts and Commodity Exchanges
Welcome to the Daily Paul Metals thread. This thread was designed to keep all metals questions and comments in one place. At over 19,000 posts, we try to keep the price of Metals in the headline as up to date as possible...but sometimes it can get away from us. Feel free to ask questions about (all) investing here...you will get an array of answers that will help you in your decisions. Remember...any investment can have loses or gains...If we knew exactly where the markets will be tomorrow or a year from now we would all be wealthy.......The people here have strong opinions one way or another, so... Do your own research and then decide if metals are good for you. Ron Paul is a firm believer in holding physical Gold and Silver. Many of us share that same view! Welcome!
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How Governments will confiscate your GOLD!!!
4 Must watch videos...NOTE:These videos give you a heads up of what is coming!
Madness of a Lost Society (in 4 parts)
The Day the Dollar died...
Gold $5000 and Silver $200 an ounce...

Rob McEwen: Your readers need to appreciate: Gold is money. It is currency. I think the number of people familiar with gold will grow as people see gold as a currency. China, India, Russia are buying gold to diversify their foreign reserves. To restore the confidence in currencies, I think some central banks, such as the Chinese and possibly the Russian, will increase their gold holdings to the level that the percentage of their total currency will be greater than that of any other currency in the world. At that point, they will assert that their currency should become the reserve currency of the world.
Full Read....
Inflation or Deflation....Metals win...
Why Deflation is good for Precious Metals:

Live Charts Here...
This thread was started 9/16/10 - here were the prices.

Submitted by SteveMT on Thu, 09/16/2010 - 11:51.

Metal Bid Ask
Gold $1,273.60
Silver $20.73
Platinum $1,602.50
Palladium $546.00

"Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves."
–Norm Franz, Money and Wealth in the New Millenium

Top Gold Goodies:
From Mark Twain: It links to one page for Options Expiration & another page for Futures Expiration. It is easy to save or print out for reference all year long. It is a handy reference identifying when US contracts expire for 2014.
This is where I watch it happen: http://www.goldseek.com
This is where I buy from: www.apmex.com:
A great read. Think and Stop Investing!
This is an incredible site for watching metals:
This site monitors all ebay metals prices.Check it out:
Jim Sinclair - a Great read everyday: http://jsmineset.com
Hard Core Gold site. Great reads: http://321gold.com

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None of the above. Men own gold.

Corporations (e.g.: Banks) are "legal fiction" operating under cover of "fictitious name" permits.

  • Sometimes they operate with the legal blessing of a republic (e.g.: the Federal Reserve Act, 1913; ex post fabula, i.e., after the fiction).
  • Sometimes, a monarch charter (e.g.: Royal Charter of the Bank of England, 1694).
  • Sometimes with nothing at all (e.g.: Euro, date unknown).

Men own gold. All other life forms pay no mind to this legal fiction.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Please come and shout

Check out the new website at www.youshouts.com

Please come in, check it out, and drop a shout. You can even shout about gold and silver if you like.



Even with the changes to

Even with the changes to margin requirments, buyers are nearly exhausted here. We're entering a liquidity crunch, several will call it manipulation and fail to see there simply is not enough money to keep the rally going.

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

what buyers? The Indian,

what buyers? The Indian, arab, and Chinese buyers are all exausted? The major fallacy of wavers is they only look at the US. People in this country are not 'exhausted'. How much money is in 401k's etc. And ofcourse the wavers do not see the shortage of metal that is the result of 30+ years of bank manipulation. What happens when Industrial users get it figured out that they had better stock up on supplies? one of those billion dollar companies will drop a billion dollars to secure product to keep their factories open. There are so many intangibles to the silver market. Wavers look at 0! to them there is no supply defeceit, no manipulation, no buying by foreign contries etc.

The spot market reflects

The spot market reflects buyers/sellers in all nations, 23.25 hours a day. A supply shortage would be reflected in the Mints selling out of silver on LESS volume. Currently the Mints are selling out of silver on HIGHER (record high) volume. Some mints, such as Perth, have deficits (pool accounts) that they have NOT been supplying, and have instead choosen to sell all their inventory to buyers who want immediate delivery while prices were high. Likely Perth knew that when prices dropped, then they would cease selling to buyers who desire immediate delivery, and divert their supply to fill the pool accounts at low prices (which had been bought at high prices). Through this strategy they are selling all of their product at the higher prices, and creating the ILLUSION of shortages, which deceives buyers into paying higher prices for fear of not being able to obtain their "safety net". Despite the claims of shortages, their has been several years of record sales, meaning there is a LOT of silver out there. The only real shortages have been in production capacity, which is why San Francisco mint has been brought online for the Eagles. If there where a silver shortage, there would be no need for additional production capacity.

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Yes, It Looks Like The Paper Market{s} Rally Are Unsustainable.

However, the precious metals 10 year rally is again picking up steam.



Its somewhat laughable to use

Its somewhat laughable to use such primative charts such as Kitco's line charts which reflect nothing more than price. Using price alone, exhaustion is only seen AFTER the fact.

Having said that, Kitco charts are one step up from simply looking at quote prices with no historical picture to compare those prices to...

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Kitco Has Links To Many Charts.

Please use your curser.


Please give me link to a

Please give me link to a Kitco chart that has something as basic as volume included on the chart.

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Spot price of precious metals to volume is irrelevant,,

When it comes to price.

If you want to see how many buyers and sellers participated in any market, check out the market itself.


Well I can see you're on top

Well I can see you're on top of it all here, no need to continue anything further...

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

Riverboat pilots proceed unabashed in navigable waters.

Even in seemingly ever worsening paper currency markets, using proper charts, riverboat pilots proceed unabashed in navigable waters.

Gold, silver, oil, un-denominated paper ... All up.
Denominated national currency paper (elastic liquidity measure) down.

Central Banks Committing Chomos? Submitted by Mark Twain, 05/26/2011. Chaos in national paper cash markets.


I wish I was back there piloting up & down the river again. Verily, all is vanity and little worth -- save piloting. - Letter to Jane Clemens, 10/1865

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Whistleblower Maguire - Silver Manipulation Still Ongoing

On the heels of the interview with CFTC Commissioner Bart Chilton, today King World News interviewed Silver Whistleblower Andrew Maguire. Yesterday Commissioner Chilton remarked to KWN, “I believe there has been repeated attempts to influence prices in the silver market. And there’s been fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control the price.” Maguire had this to say about Chilton and his comments, “Bart Chilton is a man of integrity and he’s calling it as he sees it. This is not a typical career bureaucrat when he makes a statement like that. He’s not looking for a parking space in a bullion bank down the road when he makes those kinds of remarks.”

Andrew Maguire continues:

“I hold Bart Chilton in very high regard and anyone who casts any doubt on his integrity is mistaken. Without Bart Chilton and Gary Gensler, without their efforts, there would have been no progress.

Chilton is simply voicing what myself and several other people have presented to the CFTC. I am the original whistleblower and I have stated that there is a hand of manipulation that’s active in the silver market. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

It’s obvious that I’ve been trying to bring this to the regulators attention for a long time and I’m very pleased that Bart Chilton has been quite vocal in expressing his concerns. There is no question that there is manipulation that goes on in the silver market and that it is still ongoing.”

On a separate topic Maguire had this to say, “Regarding the MF Global situation, I recall a recent CFTC public meeting. Present at the meeting were the CME’s Director and JP Morgan’s Thompson and they were vehemently opposing Gary Gensler’s request for additional staff to implement the Dodd Frank Act.


SteveMT's picture

Question: Are margins calls going down because....

the JP Morgan manipulators just lost $659M of working capital from MF Global? They had the money to put up for higher margins while they had this extra cash, and now they don't.

fireant's picture

Per CME:

"The intent and effect of these changes is to decrease the size of any margin calls resulting from the bulk transfer of MF Global customers to new clearing members, not to increase them."
But here's the rub. Many of the impacted trading accounts were small traders hedging their commodities, such as cattle ranchers. Since MF apparently mis-allocated their segregated funds (a mortal sin in the trading biz), they were, and still are, locked out of their accounts. If those accounts have gone down, they won't be able to cover margins even if they are reduced when they are able to re-access them.
Put another way, it would be like if you had a massive short position which suddenly started going the wrong way and you decided to stop out at a loss, but were denied access to your account.
As far as JP Morgan is concerned, the missing funds were allegedly found there; not lost by JP. Still, that begs the question, "what in blazes were those funds doing at JP???" Segregated funds are customer accounts, not to be mingled with proprietory trading by the brokerage.
So, to answer your question, it appears CME is doing what it can to smooth the way for MF account holders to get back in business. It just won't help much for someone who still can't access their trading account, or who lost everything due to being locked out.

Undo what Wilson did

Gensler, CTFC Chair .. MF Global review Conflicts. GS ties.

Wearing an unmarked tie (no "Vampire Squid tie) Gary Gensler will do no further facilitating nor investigating as to the wrong doings of his former co-conspirator, Jon Corzine, GS Squid Man, MF Global, CEO spoiled commodity trader.


The decision by Gensler comes as Republican Senator Charles Grassley on Friday called on the CFTC chief to recuse himself from matters related to MF Global.

"MF Global's case is a big collapse that requires a lot of work from the commission to try to figure out what went wrong and minimize further investor losses if possible," Grassley said in a statement.

"It's hard to see how the commission chairman could be completely objective in looking out for wronged investors when he has such strong ties to the principal [Corine at GS] of the failed [commodity & paper-money trading] firm ," he said.

[Gensler, Chief CFTC regulator must leave the scene of the crime, due to long standing conflict of interest with the Chief suspect. Gensler will continue collecting his pay & regulating other conflicts... of interest.]

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

fireant's picture

I feel much better knowing. ..

the mere appearance of conflict has been mitigated. It has, right?

Undo what Wilson did

Gensler, the paid regulator was told to leave this one alone.

Gensler, the paid regulator was told, avoid conflict by avoiding the crime scene. Nothing mitigated.

I do sense humor in what you write. I am familiar with humor, though much of it escapes me. Thank you for letting me know that you are feeling better. Expect a hard winter coming. You'll need your strength.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

So having a few thousand silver eagles

at 2009 prices stored away is still a good idea?

I love liberty like fresh cool air in my lungs.I love freedom like fresh cool water on my tongue.I love peace like the smooth skin of my sweet lady.And Dr.Ron Paul is the hero I believe will change the world.

Much, much ... much better

would be, like sierra,

to have 50,000 ounces,

at 2003 prices!!!

Especially when silver gets to 1:1 with gold!

LOL :)

you lol buddy...

you lol buddy...

All those FRN's

I peeed away from then till now.Man o man. http://youtu.be/xNzBgR0UoYo

I love liberty like fresh cool air in my lungs.I love freedom like fresh cool water on my tongue.I love peace like the smooth skin of my sweet lady.And Dr.Ron Paul is the hero I believe will change the world.

KWN weekly metals wrap

Bart Chilton on position limits. JPM will have to get to the 4500contract limit 60 days after position limits are implemented. JPM currently has 17 to 18k Contracts short.
This will be highly bullish for silver. The price of silver has gone up as JPM has reduced its position from over 50k contracts to 18k today. The price has gone from 5.00 to as high as 50.00. With the news out late today I expect to see a sell off in silver then a V bottom.


CFTC evasion after 3 year silver investigation is answer enough.

Gold Anti-Trust Action (lawsuit update)
Gata.org: http://www.Gata.org/node/10638

Will it end the manipulation of the silver market, or will that manipulation be ended by whatever futures market position limits the CFTC eventually decides to enforce? Maybe -- or maybe JP Morgan Chase will find intermediaries through which it can continue to enter the market in disproportionate size and thus continue to control it.

In any case silver investors probably should be thankful enough that the CFTC held that hearing a year ago in March and thankful particularly to Commissioner Chilton for insuring that GATA Chairman Bill Murphy and GATA Board of Directors member Adrian Douglas were allowed to speak and introduce Maguire's complaint in detail. On the day of the hearing silver was hovering around $15 per ounce and had been going nowhere in particular. By the end of the year it had doubled and this week it closed above $34, and there are many signs of its physical shortage as the paper hangers of the fractional-reserve precious metal banking system thrash around desperately to regain control of the market.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul


Zerohedge.com just posted some startling news. The CME has upped margin requirements to 100% ensuring the total destruction of all small and medium sized participants come Monday morning.


Unless this is some kind of mistake Clif High's prediction of "Rich Riots" may hit soon after the COMEX destruction.

This is WHY I have told you to STAY OUT OF THEIR SYSTEM! They can, and will, change the rules to save their own hides. The ONLY way to survive is with physical gold and silver IN YOUR OWN POSSESSION!

Close your eyes to the price of gold and silver over the next few days/weeks.


Clearly, the pending charges against JPM for silver manipulation has hit a nerve with the banking cabal.

Buckle up my friends...our Road is about to get a little BUMPY!

Bix Weir


I can't believe anybody subscribes to bix weir. These are his words I'm guessing? Can a newsletter writer be sued for malpractice?

As fireant explained below, the CME has merely raised maintenance margin requirements to the same level as initial margin requirements. So, yes, maintenance margins are now 100% of INITIAL MARGINS, but that is not the same thing as raising margin requirements to 100% of contract value! Jeez!!! Margins are not being raised any higher than what was required to open the positions in the first place.

Even tyler durden seems to have gotten it right...at least the factual part (but he may have sensationalised the impact a bit). All bix had to do was read the freaking article he was linkng to, but if he doesn't understand what any of it means than I guess it is not much help.

Now don't get me wrong this could have a significant impact, as over-leveraged traders who are trying to hold positions on bare minimum margins (which would make them complete idiots in the current environment) may have to either add funds or liquidate some of their positions, but nowhere near the impact that would be felt if margins were hiked to 100% of contract value (and that WOULD be HUGE BOMBSHELL if it happened, but it didn't).

Any trader who currently has a profit based on their entry point won't need to add a cent unless/until the market moves against them. Any trader who may be down a little from their entry point but has the good sense not to trade on bare minimum margin may have enough extra in their account that they won't need to add any funds either. But traders whose equity has fallen below the initial amount they had to put up to open the trade will either have to reduce their position or add funds.

The market is already poised to fall hard. Stocks, metals, you name it, so to minimze defaul risk, the CME has to tighten up. Of course, the maintenance margin hikes will probably be blamed by many for the fall that is coming, but it's coming either way so the CME might as well try to get in front of it in order to try to control defaults.

You said you were going away for a while.

We were all excited. Don't get our hopes up with talk like that.

"A living Constitution is a dead one" -Ron Paul

fireant's picture

Who is this "we" you speak of?

You don't speak for me. Speak for yourself and have at it.
Other than that, I'm finding your constant attacks on the bear club rather tiring.

Undo what Wilson did

Thanks for the clarity , no Cain pun intended,

So are Metals like silver going down much if cooler heads prevail? Or is this just another pre market panic so high frequency traders can bottom out the prices and trigger all the stop loss orders. Effectivly causing you to sell at the lowest price of the decade. rifr can I e-mail you a question? Would it help to buy DZZ, SKF, SKK, SDS, SJH, ZSL to cushion the losses.