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I don't know anything about that but they just opened a new Panera bread nearby. I wonder if there is a shortage of panini's? Should I stock up?

for real?

So for_real is implying that they open up new Panera's because demand is dropping and people aren't interested in them anymore? and the open new mints because there is less and less demand? Now there's real genius for you, if you subscribe to mad hatter wonderland version of logic.

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl

There you go again,

beating up on defenseless straw man arguments that nobody made. Feel better now? You've been pretty quiet lately.

for_real ought to spend just

for_real ought to spend just a little time heeding his own words. After all, Turborewind provided information on increased demand, and Sierre spoke of necessity to open new mints to keep up with demand. Rather than address what they actually said, for_real comes up with a sarcastic straw man analysis that opening new Paneras means there is shortage of bread. Talk about a straw man. Now that is an idiotic straw man argument. When one actually looks into what for_real said, it actually supports Sierra and turborewind's posts. By deductive logic a need to open more Panera's indicates a strong demand for panini. Likewise a need to open more mints would indicate a strong demand for physical silver.

Of course for_real knows his allegation fails because he could not support his alleged straw man accusation, but merely tosses the phrase out there. He then tries to draw attention away from his lack of any support and lack of reasoning skills with juvenile distractions like "You've been pretty quiet lately" and "Feel better now," that have absolutely nothing to do with Sierra and Turborewinds comments. What does that have to do with the necessity of building new mints and the increasing demand for physical silver? Absolutely nothing. If I am less quiet or more quiet it neither supports nor refutes that building new mints may be an indication of increasing demand as Sierra commented or that somehow the need to build new mints means less demand as for_real illogically implied.

for_real's pattern of resorting to irrelevant juvenile wisecracks about the authors of comments, and simply tossing out allegations like "straw man" argument that he is unable to explain or support indicates a faulty position and reflects a lack of reasoning skills.

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl


If you are going to lurk in the tall grass and pounce on simple off the cuff posts of a jesting nature with your long winded analyses, please try to keep up.

Turborewind posted something about RECORD ASE sales. I keep reading posts about how limited the supply of silver is so I made a crack about supplies being limited to the number they can sell, intending to raise doubt about the shortage of supply. If supply is so short, how are they selling record amounts????? How you missed this point is beyond me, but you apparently did.

Then sierra comes in with a remark about opening another mint, as though that somehow refutes my point that record sales is not consistent with severe shortage of supplies. So I applied his apparent reasoning and wondered if the opening of a new Panera bread should be taken as an indication of a shortage of panini's. Of course this is absurd, just as the opening of a new mint is absurd proof that supplies of silver are short, which was MY POINT. I made no point whatsoever about demand. Perhaps supplies ARE short, but don't point me to record ASE sales and the opening of a new mint as support for the contention.

Then you come in and attribute to me a position I neither stated nor implied...(a straw man argument)...and you knocked it down like a big bad dude, but since I never made any point about demand, you ended up looking rather foolish IMO. Yes demand has been high, but if record sales of ASE's can't even get silver above a level that is 40% off the high, then what is it going to take?

Then a day later you come back with an even more absurd post. It is not even worth dissecting any further. You'll forgive me if I disregard your posts in the future?

Yes Sierra has in the past

Yes Sierra has in the past talked about shortage. However Sierra did not contend that the need to open new mints indicated shortage. His comment above neither stated nor implied that the opening new mints was an indication of physical shortage, but rather correctly stated the need for new mints reflected demand. The attempt to imply that Sierra meant the new mint was an indication of shortage is simply the imaginary straw man argument that for-real imputed so that for-real could once again present an immature snide sarcastic comment.

As to silver shortages, Sierra and others have explained themselves quite clearly with their breakdown of the physical market versus the paper market. Yes, there is not at present shortage to meet the physical market demand for physical silver, at least not yet. However there is a shortage of available silver stockpiles to meet all the paper claims to silver on the paper market. They have explained this clearly and repeatedly. That is where the present shortage lies. So long as the actual redemption of paper claims remains low enough then paper pyramid remains. When the paper pyramid begins to collapse, the shortage becomes exposed, and the economic cure for shortages is rising prices. Various events can trigger the collapse: physical demand can grow to exceed stockpiles and production capacity; MF Global events can trigger rising loss of confidence in paper claims leading to redemption of those papers claims beyond the capacity of an exchange or short seller to fulfill; loss of confidence in fiat, could be dollars or euros or some other currency, triggers a wave of physical demand exceeding capacity to fulfill; loss of confidence in other paper markets could trigger a wave of demand into actual possession of physical silver as an alternative safe holding; low interest on sovereign bonds combined with rising inflation can trigger of wave of demand out of sovereign debt into physical possession of precious metals; loss of confidence in sovereign debt could of the same; and others.

Of course for_real is aware of all this as Sierra and others have thoroughly explained their positions and provided plenty of additional resources as well. Thus it would appear on the surface that for_real’s motive is merely to annoy, pester or provoke rather than foster rational discussion. That ulterior motive is corroborated by pattern of snide sarcastic remarks, and the constant immature slights against his fellow dailypaulers like “big bad dude,” “OMG”, “lurk in the tall grass and pounce”, and “long winded analysis.” This is just childish immature taunting. This is not logic. This is not an argument. It is an abandonment of reason, and does nothing to explain or further understanding of the issue of contention or add to the topic of this forum. Perhaps for_real’s motive is actually more sincere than the image he portrays of himself. In that case it is very easy for him to correct the misconception he presents, by simply refraining from the snide juvenile taunts and presenting his arguments in a more rational mature manner, showing just a little modicum of etiquette for his fellow dailypaulers.

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl

This is a complete waste of time, but

seeing as how at least 3 people voted your post above up (WTF???) I will respond briefly...

It is amazing how much you have read into a single sentence by sierra which read: "thats why they opened up a new mint in San Fran to help keep up with demand" and a response posted by me which consisted of a sentence followed by two questions: "I don't know anything about that but they just opened a new Panera bread nearby. I wonder if there is a shortage of panini's? Should I stock up?". Neither sierra or I put more than a few seconds into our posts, but you want to spend hours analyzing off the cuff remarks in an ongoing spirited debate.

What seems to be COMPLETELY LOST ON YOU is that sierra's post was in DIRECT RESPONSE to MY POST where I jokingly said that "...supplies are limited...TO THE NUMBER THEY CAN SELL!!!"

So when he posts "thats why they opened up a new mint in San Fran to help keep up with demand" in DIRECT RESPONSE to my post about supply, it is quite reasonable to infer that by using the word "thats" (which is actually not a word but I presume he meant "that's", but I digress) -it is reasonable to infer in the CONTEXT of the post he was DIRECTLY RESPONDING TO that he was referring to the limited supplies that I spoke of (however sarcastically) in MY POST and that he may have been attempting to support his repeated contention that supplies are indeed short.

SO, by connecting his post to mine by use of "thats" and posting it as a direct reply, it is reasonable to substitute the part of my post he was most likely referring to, "limited supplies" (modified from "supplies are limited" in the original post), in place of "thats", and if you do so, then what he is saying is that "limited supplies (are the reason)why they opened up a new mint in San Fran to help keep up with demand".

Now read that again! It makes no sense! So I attempted to show how little sense it made by applying his reasoning (however imperfectly, there is rarely a perfect analogy) to the opening of a new Panera. I did not falsely attribute anything to him, as he barely said anything at all (although you seem to think he wrote paragraphs and paragraphs of well reasoned logic), nor did I "impute" any "imaginary straw man arguments" as you do with me all the time. I simply responded to what he APPEARED TO BE SAYING (and I have just explained why my interpretation was reasonable...it may not have been correct, but it was reasonable and I haven't read any posts by sierra correcting me on my interpretation of what he said) by trying to remove the emotional element so that clearer thinking might (but obviously did not) prevail.

You then come in, set up your straw man, knock it down with vigor, and when I point out that that was all you did and ask if you felt better, you respond with ever more bizarre contortions of the logic you are always going on about.

Again, if all you are going to do is come in and try to break down my posts and question my sincerity, please at least try to keep up with what is actually being said. It is pretty ridiculous that I am the one who is considered a "troll" here, when if people would have just listened to me (the troll) they would be making a mint for themselves instead of shifting their wealth to mint operators and silver salesmen. I mean, silver is just a few dollars away from a level where, even if the oft repeated predictions that silver may "double overnight" came true, it still would not even erase my profits of the last 4 months! But don't listen to the troll!!!

And by the way, a lot of good it did the PM bulls (many of whom, BUT NOT ALL, are now underwater on their average purchase price) to listen to the "sincere" people.

Editing Note: I have edited this post three days after it was first posted to correct a few typos and improve clarity and readability.

More silver available than

More silver available than there was mint capacity...shortages of minted product, not shortage of silver.

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

I sure wish you would show

I sure wish you would show where all this silver was dumped when silver went down. please show us video ro any proof that the price went down because of excessive selling. Ofcourse we are talking physical silver here not paper ..

I never said any such thing.

I never said any such thing.

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence

fireant's picture

and that's different from what other commodity market?

I mean, have your fun, but at least have it with something that matters.
Seriously, get your physical while you can folks. When this market reverses, it likely will be powerful indeed, not hanging around it's lows for long, and you'll end up chasing price. The panic into metals will be sudden, and trying to figure out when is a suckers game. It's too risky to not have physical. Don't let rifr and the others talk you out of it. I agree that we likely will see lower spot prices, but no one knows that for sure. Now is a great opportunity to purchase those eagles.

Undo what Wilson did


"The panic into metals" has ALREADY OCCURRED! The panic into silver peaked in April, the panic into gold peaked in August. Those who panicked into those metals got, and are getting, their heads handed to them. Most are still in denial about it and are holding on tight in the belief that it was only the beginning, rather than the end. They will continue to hold while these metals continue to fall.

fireant's picture

That was a panic???

A panic is when masses of people run from something. Go out on the street and ask 100 people if they remember the silver panic of 2011. You might get 1 or 2 who have a clue.
No, the April high was a Max Kieser speed bump and bugs chasing price. Panic will occur when the masses run from the dollar; still ahead yet...

Undo what Wilson did

Well, a better word

to describe what happened in metals this year would probably be a mania, but you were the one that was talking about "The panic into metals will be sudden", I was quoting you. Now you say that "A panic is when masses of people run from something." So how are people going to panic into metals like you said before?

I think panic can go both ways, but if we use your most recent definiton then I guess the panic was people running from the dollar (which of course bottomed and rallied about 10% so far) and producing a flight into metals. "Buy at any price, it can only go higher" was their "reasoning". Evidently metals could also go lower.

fireant's picture

At risk of sounding anal...

...of course, it's natural law that if an object moves from a place, it is conversely moving toward something, which merely begs the question. There was nothing other than Max's hype to create a panic either out of the dollar or into silver. There was no panic.
"Panic" denotes fear. Would you say the Titanic passengers were panicking from the ship or towards the lifeboats?.

Undo what Wilson did

In answer to your question "Would you say the Titanic passengers

were panicking from the ship or towards the lifeboats?."
At first? No; Towards the end? Absolutely Yes.
But by that time, it was way too late.
Not that this has anything to do with your post but several analogies can be drawn between the circumstances surrounding the Titanic and the economic reality that exits today.

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

What if the lifeboat

is actually the dollar, and metals are more like anchors?

I think the globalists have made it quite clear that they want

a One World Currency (to go along with the One World Government, its the New World Order! don't cha know?). In order for that to happen, the dollar will, by necessity, have to be destroyed, or at least debased to such an extent that using it as the reserve currency is simply out of the question.
You can only wait in the ship so long, staying warm and sipping Brandy before the lifeboats fill up. And just as there were not enough seats on the lifeboats of the Titanic for everyone, there is not enough gold and silver to go around either.
(What do you think the last seat of the last lifeboat would have sold for?)

The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
Friedrich Nietzsche

fireant's picture

Yep, until everyone realizes the lifeboat has a leak


Undo what Wilson did

There will be plenty of time

to buy. We are nowhere near the low. Sentiment alone is way too bullish.

sentiment is bullish??? lmao

sentiment is bullish??? lmao

It is

"too bullish" for this to be a long-term low such as the bulls are talking about. When prices drop 40% and everyone is afraid to sell because they don't want to miss out on the next big UP move, then that ain't a low. Check all your silver forums, how many are throwing in the towel and how many are viewing this as a great buying opportunity?

SteveMT's picture

Yup, invading Libya to get their gold is no big deal.

The Real Reason the U.S. Invaded Libya
Iran came under attack in 1953 when it’s elected leader wanted to trade oil in something other than dollars. Saddam Hussein came under our attack at the exact time he wanted to stop trading oil in dollars. And now Gaddafi wants to stop trading oil in dollars and look what happened to him.


Your right,

Taking over a sovereign country to steal their gold and silver and bankrupting MF Global to steal their PM,s and cash. Totally destroying the confidence in the market place . These are just common place events when a bubble bust. Right? Ron how low do you think that they can drive the price down from here?

We can only speculate

the reasons for taking down ghadaffi and what exactly happened with MFG, but in my view, it will not be necessary to "drive the price down from here", it will fall on its own.

I think the next stop is somewhere in the low twenties, but there is still a reasonable chance of one more pop up to $36-$37 area first. If prices get back above $31 for more than a few hours I'll probably lighten up on my shorts or maybe close them all and re-enter higher, but otherwise I'm holding short for much lower prices. Eventually, we should be in the teens, and yes, I expect silver will be in the single digits before the real buying opportunity presents itself.

Of course this sounds outrageous to all the experts who were buying at the highs.

WOW!!! Blast from the

WOW!!! Blast from the past...

"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence



I love liberty like fresh cool air in my lungs.I love freedom like fresh cool water on my tongue.I love peace like the smooth skin of my sweet lady.And Dr.Ron Paul is the hero I believe will change the world.


Sure am glad I backed the truck up and grabbed all I could on this last dipity dip.

I love liberty like fresh cool air in my lungs.I love freedom like fresh cool water on my tongue.I love peace like the smooth skin of my sweet lady.And Dr.Ron Paul is the hero I believe will change the world.



Silver fetish I guess.

It's because of all the porn I watch,It beats buying lotto tickets.Silver porn that is. http://youtu.be/IACcwlyGZQs

I love liberty like fresh cool air in my lungs.I love freedom like fresh cool water on my tongue.I love peace like the smooth skin of my sweet lady.And Dr.Ron Paul is the hero I believe will change the world.