359 votes

>Gold $1,200 Silver $16.70 Platinum $1,220 Palladium $790 Dollar 87.90

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Gold & Silver, Ron Paul: THE TRUTH
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Welcome to the Daily Paul Metals thread. This thread was designed to keep all metals questions and comments in one place. At over 19,500 posts, we try to keep the price of Metals in the headline as up to date as possible...but sometimes it can get away from us. Feel free to ask questions about (all) investing here...you will get an array of answers that will help you in your decisions. Remember...any investment can have loses or gains...If we knew exactly where the markets will be tomorrow or a year from now we would all be wealthy.......The people here have strong opinions one way or another, so... Do your own research and then decide if metals are good for you. Ron Paul is a firm believer in holding physical Gold and Silver. Many of us share that same view! Welcome!
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The Day the Dollar died...
Gold $5000 and Silver $200 an ounce...

Rob McEwen: Your readers need to appreciate: Gold is money. It is currency. I think the number of people familiar with gold will grow as people see gold as a currency. China, India, Russia are buying gold to diversify their foreign reserves. To restore the confidence in currencies, I think some central banks, such as the Chinese and possibly the Russian, will increase their gold holdings to the level that the percentage of their total currency will be greater than that of any other currency in the world. At that point, they will assert that their currency should become the reserve currency of the world.
Full Read....
Inflation or Deflation....Metals win...
Why Deflation is good for Precious Metals:

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This thread was started 9/16/10 - here were the prices.

Submitted by SteveMT on Thu, 09/16/2010 - 11:51.

Metal Bid Ask
Gold $1,273.60
Silver $20.73
Platinum $1,602.50
Palladium $546.00

"Gold is the money of kings, silver is the money of gentlemen, barter is the money of peasants – but debt is the money of slaves."
–Norm Franz, Money and Wealth in the New Millenium

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didn't get my position filled

didn't get my position filled till this morning. Remember a week ago you said now the counter trend rally begins. You were off by a whole dollar or more.. Hypocracy... lmao.

and now...

...well now you are off by at least a dollar and at least two days. Still lyao? No surprise to anyone who has looked at any of your calls. And all I said was a low was approaching (but I did not say a rally had begun) and when I saw your comment, I knew it would be a little while longer.

wrong again

I said no such thing. Read it again http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/3484232
You still won't understand it, so hire a 4th grader to read it and explain it to you. (Hint: look up the word "approaching" in the dictionary for a clue to understanding the rest of the post)

I'm quite comfortable...

I am not so smart but I do trust Ron's judgement...and therefore I am cool with everything. Seriously.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
"I know major allies who fund them" Gen. Dempsey referring to ISIS



I love liberty like fresh cool air in my lungs.I love freedom like fresh cool water on my tongue.I love peace like the smooth skin of my sweet lady.And Dr.Ron Paul is the hero I believe will change the world.

DJP333's picture

And I am confortable with that comment

Seriously. I trust in the things I have learned from Dr. Ron also.

"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different." ~CW

DJP333's picture

Interesting afternoon

At 2pm sharp the Dollar shot up and Gold got crushed. Guessing thats all related to the FED press conference.

"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different." ~CW

SteveMT's picture

Yup. Yellen was yelling about how great things are.

The buttons were pushed, and you know the rest of the story.



DJP333's picture

Gold and Silver End Game

Greg Hunter interviews John Embry, Chief Investment Strategist at Sprott Asset Management. Good follow-up to the Harvey Organ interview.



"It’s not pessimistic, brother, because this is the blues. We are blues people. The blues aren’t pessimistic. We’re prisoners of hope but we tell the truth and the truth is dark. That’s different." ~CW

This thread now 4 years old

this thread was created four years ago, around the time of QE2 (I think before QE2 but might have been a few weeks after) and according to the main body of the thread taken directly from this comment on the first page of this thread http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/1537586
the prices at that time were:

Gold $1,273.60
Silver $20.73
Platinum $1,602.50
Palladium $546.00

Now, using the prices listed in the current title of this thread as updated by SteveMT, let us compare prices now versus then:

Gold $1235, DOWN $38.60
Silver $18.70, DOWN $2.03
Platinum $1365, DOWN $237.50
Palladium $840, UP $294

So what did all that hyperinflationary quantitative easing bring us? NET DEFLATION. Imagine if the fed did nothing.

P.S. Everyone go to the first page of this thread and read what was being said ... LMFAO.

Where do you think...

Where do you think that silver and gold would be trading if the mysterious "Belgium" buyer didn't magically appear months ago and start buying up tens of billions of dollars of our debt?

Does anyone even stop and wonder how this tiny country can purchase more debt than it even has GDP?

Has the metals crowd underestimated the levels of fraud and corruption that would be used to depress gold/silver? Yes. Will this continue indefinitely. No.

It's all fun and games until there is no more physical that can be delivered.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

Where do you think....

> "Has the metals crowd underestimated the levels of fraud and corruption that would be used to depress gold/silver? Yes. Will this continue indefinitely. No."

Yes it will.

Where do you think there is anything either in current Law, or current COMEX rules that would ever prevent J.P. Morgan from flooding the market with paper certificates?

As long as they do this, then the prices will remain artificially depressed. Who is going to stop them? You?

And what the so-called "experts" don't realize here is that it does not matter a hoot whether or not there are delays in delivery or not (due to under supply). There is no mechanism or force which can compel or require instant delivery of everything anyway. This is a myth. The corruption won't ever stop anymore than Fractional Reserve Lending (generating non-existent money exponentially) will stop.

Understand that the flooding and low prices are institutionally designed to be a perpetual thing --- not some innocent accident to somehow be magically "corrected". It is a paradigm designed (by intent) for the numbers not to ever add up (and to be intentionally uncorrectable).

Fraud does not ever "correct" itself. Somebody has to actually stop it, and somebody has go to Jail -- if and before the "fun and games" ever are to be ended.

That was an entertaining post

That was an entertaining post. Nothing about it correct, but entertaining.

We're in the beginning stages of a petrodollar collapse and rise of the Chinese Yuan. The physical gold/silver markets in the East will soon be determining prices...but if you are so sure of continued dollar strength and the security of dollar denominated US paper assets...by all means put your money where your mouth is and stay invested in them.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

I agree, but....

I agree about the movement away from the Petro dollar -- although this is largely held in place anyway because of U.S. "regime change" Military policy violence targeted at the uncooperative Nations (followed by a private Central Bank setup). Libya is a good example of this.

I also agree the Yuan will rise, but this has little impact on the exchange (spot) price of either Gold (1200) or Silver (18)

The Exchange price (which is the thing that matters if you want to buy food, or pay bills) is controlled not by anything "the East" does, or either how much Gold it buys or does not buy. The Exchange price is not controlled by supply and demand on a pure physical level.

The Exchange price is controlled by the paper flooding and COMEX. As long as this activity remains legal then there is nothing that can stop the artificial suppression of the Exchange price.

That is my point --- not that I believe it is a "good idea" to invest in dollars. I don't. But the point is just that this game is a rigged game. And since all currencies are pegged together with the dollar --- the dollar will never technically "crash" like Germany or Argentina. All that will happen is that the middle-class will get progressively poorer (or disappear) as ALL CURRENCIES are dragged down in lock-step together. Yet the RICH Oligarchs will continue to prosper and horde the World Resources for themselves (for who will stop them? ... nobody has ever stopped The Rothschilds and their control system: Nobody. Not even the alleged "American Revolution").

And since Gold and Silver are treated and handled and bought and sold like paper assets, they will also go down or stay flat -- without any meteoric rise.

The Exchange price is controlled by design.

But when the exchange price for Silver ($18) goes to $200, let me know ... okay?
I'll be happy to retract these statements at that time.

The physical price will

The physical price will eventually disengage from the paper price. China appears to be willing to go along with the paper schemes as long as they are able to still secure physical at paper prices. They have no problem paying less for it. China's massive demand is only being met by stockpiles that HAD accumulated in western vaults over the past decades. This supply is running dry.

So, what happens when past supplies are gone and worldwide annual production is not sufficient to cover demand? China and other countries raise the bid. $1300, $1400, $1500, $1600....$3000 and on and on.

How can you possibly have a paper market at $1200 (or less) an ounce for gold when a country like China is willing to pay substantially higher for the real thing.

How can you continue a suppressed paper market if the low prices are forcing miners out of business?

Quite an arrogant statement..."the dollar will never technically "crash" like Germany or Argentina". Right, because of the American Exceptionalism? Because math no longer applies?

$200 silver doesn't even remotely interest me. I didn't buy it just to exchange it later for more worthless fiat currency.

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul


"So, what happens when past supplies are gone and worldwide annual production is not sufficient to cover demand?"

Well, supplies seem to be shuffled around, borrowed (and loaned), and transferred around between Central Banks, and within the market in such a way that there is always some available for purchase. We've never seen a total absence of the commodity. I have also heard that the Banking Cartel will paint up fake Gold Bars, which may be part of their strategy (as they shuffle things around). As for production, there has been no "hard stop" in mining production. As long as Gold/Silver can be mined, then whatever the demand may be....it is simply a matter of: a) do you get your delivery right away, or b) is there a delay in processing your order (and getting delivery delays).

So it is hard for me to imagine this scenario when there is a "panic run" on Gold/Silver that makes it disappear altogether. Yes, of course, the dollar is losing its value ... but since paper currencies are the only legal means of exchange for all your fundamental expenses (taxes, groceries, mortgage, utilities, college, car, gas) and your salary is always in the form of paper currencies -- then I maintain that whether or not people want to use dollars or not is irrelevant. They will be forced to use them.

The point is, they have been getting away with this corruption for over 100 years or more. The United States was officially bankrupt way back at the time of the Stock Market crash of 1929 and the great depression. Yet the corrupt system continues on and on. The National Debt was $1 Billion back in 1980. Today the National Debt is in incalculable .. perhaps 30 or 40 Trillion dollars.

Now your point about "math no longer applies" is the final aspect of this. The numbers have not added up at since this Cartel was formulated. The numbers have not added up for over 100 years. We spend Trillions of dollars overseas which will never be repaid back. It is a system designed to produce a fraudulent outcome, and to have that fraudulent outcome be legalized, ignored, and institutionally sustained by force.

I don't agree with this system. I don't defend the morality or the logic of the system. I hate it. So we are in complete agreement here that this is an evil system, that can only produce horrible results.

Yet my opinion is, I don't see anyway to stop the corruption and the gimmicks until there are some set of new LAWS that force these practices, and paper-certificate schemes, (and derivative swaps and all the rest) into the dust bin of history.

Now: If and only if Gold and Silver were universally recognized as direct, legal tender for payment of all your bills and expenses (directly) -- then I would agree with you completely that the paper system would rapidly fall of out usage, and go belly-up.

But it isn't. In fact, trying to use Gold & Silver is unlawful for your core expenses (aside from mere private-party bartering perhaps). So you see....the corrupt house of cards will continue --- until something comes along and actually replaces it altogether. When the time comes, the International Bankers will propose their own new system as the cure and the replacement.....and once again the musical chairs go on.

And if you didn't invest in silver or gold for the exchange expectation of rising prices ($200 silver, which will never happen), and all your money is sitting in hard metal, I don't see how you can possibly pay a mortgage, buy a new car, put a kid through school, buy food and supplies, pay the taxes, pay the hospital bill, put gas in your car, etc., or survive.

It's a game where they made all the rules (for themselves). History proves that these guys never needed the numbers to add up, in order for them to stay in control. It's not about numbers or the supply. It's about what tender rules have to be legally obeyed.

Keep believing whatever you'd like.

Keep believing whatever you'd like. You think this "system" will keep limping along indefinitely, and I believe it will come to an ugly, nasty end with bank account confiscations, massive riots, empty store shelves, and possibly much, much worse. I believe people will quickly understand why the government purchased billions of rounds of hollow point bullets.

I'm prepared for EITHER scenario. Are you?

My thoughts on buying silver/gold can be summed up in this comment here...


“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
― Ron Paul

SteveMT's picture

Thanks for catching the 4-year anniversary of this thread.

I can only say that four years is not a long enough window to see what inevitably must happen. All paper will go to zero. However, four years is not sufficient.

I got into metal at the end of 2008 and early 2009. The average prices back then including commissions were the following:

Gold: $960
Silver: $14.60
Palladium: $240 (The best investment to date I ever made.)

Not one of those buys has lost anything. I know that timing acquisitions is everything, so what's your opinion. Did I choose well?

There is no doubt that many including me have underestimated how long this system would last. What was not known four years ago was the true extent of involvement of the other central banks with propping up this fiat system and that the dollar would still be the reserve currency of the world. If the money masters have their hands on all of the controls, manipulate all of the markets, and own all of the politicians, how long they can make this sham system work is anyone's guess. Printing money out of thin air will lead to inflation is basic Econ 101, not rocket science. We are all learning that patience IS a virtue. Your skepticism and dose of reality are both appreciated. Metal is real is what matters most to me.


Did you choose well? Well, you certainly have gains on those orginal purchases from late 2008 and early 2009, but you could have achieved similar or greater gains by throwing a dart at a stock page at that time, which was the end of a deflationary period and the beginning of a reflationary period. Virtually everything has gone up since then during the re-flation of the past 5 years, and that reflationary period is ending soon, if it has not already ended.

But haven't you been adding to those original purchases ("stacking") since then? I doubt you have gains on your average of all your purchases.

As you said, timing is everything, and just saying "metal is real" is not going to help you much. Remember, money that was created out of thin air can disappear into thin air too.

SteveMT's picture

I didn't want to be in the system. I wanted out.

I went Galt as much as I could. No stacking since then. I'm done, because of other expenses. I did this at the right time. I got out of the dollar as much as I could. I would disagree with you about metal not being real money. If the paper goes south, the metal remains a real commodity that can be sold or traded. Paper can be created quickly and can disappear just as fast like you have said. However, the metal will remain.


Asset allocation dictates you spread the risk. With metals @ 5% to 10% of one's portfolio and the rest in stocks, bonds, real estate, I would say most have done well with that allocation. Also, not everyone bought gold at $1,900 where gold was for a very short time.

The question is, what would a prudent investor do today? What does your crystal ball say as a percentage you would allocate to gold versus stocks?

Mine says take from what is at the highs and put some into what is at the lows (although it very well could go lower, understood).

Will be an interesting Fed meeting result today.

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

Whatever you do one should keep their eyes on China

American's are living a pipe dream, in no why can this current system continue.

We have been buying everything from China, China holds over a trillion of our dollars, and is using those dollars to buy gold and silver. In the past, they have been part of the manipulation so as to acquire more gold and silver.

I think the FED sold or leased all the gold it stole from the people long ago, Fort Knox holds only cob webs. If I am right and the physical gold market is low, what will happen when the Chinese gold market gets up and running? The Chinese will only use the paper market to obtain the physical gold. I doubt the Chinese will wait for the existing paper market to produce the gold. At some time in the near future China will put out a bid for your gold that will be much higher than the Comex paper market. They have all those dollars that will soon be worthless to them, why wouldn't they use those dollars to obtain as much gold as possible.

I think one plays the paper market at one's own peril, I think it's time to own physical. If one doesn't want to be in the gold and silver market, they better own lots of food. Myself, I am putting up lots of hay in my barn to feed all the animals I just purchased. As soon as the crops are harvested I'll be storing lots of grain, non-GMO of course.

The dollar may be king for the time being, but when everyone realizes there is no gold or silver left, it will all change almost overnight. With almost $18T of debt, there is no way this system can continue. The actual debt is more like $100T.

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed

That's my situation.

I watched as the gold boat sailed away when i was a potential buyer at 450...500 and almost went in at 1900 only to get some advice to hold out. I was encouraged to ride the FED and stick it out with stock market, even add a lot to it. So I did, and so far, my guy has been a big right. With that said, I always have those butterflies in my stomach at such highs, but in reality, who says we can't go to a DOW of 20K?

For no rhyme or reason I've picked gold at 800 or 700 to buy in a good portion, but that just me.

So what does one do with say......----> a made up number of 1 million in stock now? Buy bubbled real estate? Buy PM's that are trending down? Stay with dividend growth stocks in good companies that look do well in this environment? Cash out in electronic dollars?

The stock market crashed in 2008 and is only in the final

stages of the crash. The stock market went down and like a dead cat bounce it went back up, it would have crashed much lower if the FED hadn't pumped trillions into it. So now it's going to be a much bigger crash than ever, because it must correct all the fraud and manipulation.

When it starts do crash no one will be able to get out, because everyone will be selling and no one will be buying. Gold and silver won't be available, because they will continue to climb in price daily. Markets will be closed down daily to stop the panic buying and selling!

Right now the markets are highly manipulated. What reason would there be to have gold down to $700 to 800? The cost of mining is around $1300, this would ensure the mines closing down. $800 gold is never going to happen!

Gold standard: because man can not be trusted to control his greed


That allocation works fine during inflationary/reflationary periods, which most americans alive today have enjoyed for most of our lifetimes. But if one is anticipating deflation, as I am, than a prudent investor would have very little in stocks, metals, and real estate. Holding some metals is okay, and maybe even a few carefully chosen stocks, but I would not be in real estate (as an investment) at all. Cash will be king (unless you want to speculate with leveraged bearish bets).

I have been short or flat metals for 3 years. I expect to begin shorting stocks again very soon, and probably bonds too. Maybe even some crude oil. Virtually everything is going lower (except the dollar).

fireant's picture

The one thing I and others can't grasp is...

why would the fed continue tightening in the face of spreading deflation? I agree that deflation is gaining the upper hand, esp in Europe. Gold and the dollar indicate it's coming here as well. Is it pure politics? It just makes no sense that the fed would risk increasing the cost of debt in any significant manner. Thoughts? (You and Doug)

Undo what Wilson did


the Fed always acts after the fact. They threw $8 trillion at the last crisis "after" the fact. Presently they believe the b.s. economic data. And when their goals change without them getting what they want, they change the goal posts. For example, remember when the Fed used the unemployment rate reaching a certain level as a benchmark? Then when the rate was creeping closer, they changed the language (goal posts).

What happens next? The Fed is clueless and won't do anything but react. Just think for a moment what higher rates really means to everything; the economy, real estate demand, bonds, stock market, national debt. Scary stuff. But for now, the Fed is relevant and has been and that can't be discounted or it could cost you.

Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!


we're pretty much in agreement on deflation. Keep in mind thought that Central Banks won't let deflation take hold the way you might think it will. They will fight it tooth and nail. They have to for their "system" to function.

The value of real estate is irrelevant if one is not selling and taking an income from it. Rents aren't going to go down for their income stream much. And when inflation comes, they can raise rents.

Stocks will at some point take a hit. Based on P/E ratios historically we are at an overvalued timeframe. Doesn't mean the stock market can't go higher first.


Author of Buy Gold and Silver Safely
Next book: Illusions of Wealth - due out soon
Also writing book We the Serfs!

What are your opinions of James Rickards? Anyone?


Here Forbes weighs in: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2014/04/28/is-james-r...

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