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Did Darwin Kill God?

I don't want to promote that neocon-running-for-office's thread about evolution anymore.

Here is a wonderful documentary, Did Darwin Kill God?, on how evolution and God can and should coexist.

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 1:

Did Darwin Kill God? Part2:

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 3:

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 4:

Part 5:

Part 6 isn't worth watching.

You cannot argue that evolution occurs. It can be created in a laboratory, in our very own DNA mutation, and through observation of nature. Evolution does not equal atheism and it is a false dichotomy.

This issue is not black and white. It is gray. Both sides on the extreme should watch this series and realize the either-or fallacy.

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lol..... bs.....

lol..... bs.....

"lol..... bs....."

How very insightful of you. Why not just tell him to read the bible again?


Natural Selection does apply

Natural Selection does apply to humans.


Humans are tremendously more intelligent than a thousand years ago and 6000 years is pretty insignificant in evolutionary terms. Are you kidding?

Evolution deals with passing genes and we all know that intelligence is not a strong necessity for procreation in humans. Passing genes is what it's all about.

No offense but you obviously don't understand evolution very well to dismiss it.

Columbus, Ohio

But if we hope to move beyond a nature that enslaves.

Then we move to the realm of ideas. Our ideas do evolve. And our ideas about each other can evolve also.

Nature is a side issue, unless we wish to remain mere creatures and reject the liberty that is our gift.

Each side is seeks the truth, each side has its doubts. Is this our common ground?

Free includes debt-free!

You know what puzzles me.

Most the animals and people and how they are kindda similar. Two eyes, nose, mouth, ears, they eat and poop. There are male and female species and how they are territorial, and there is a chain of authority within the groups. This kind of amazes me.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

This depends on:

1) How you define evolution: Macro or Micro? Almost everyone agrees: the fittest of a species is the most likely to survive, thus micro-evolution is true.

2) The difficulty arrives when the Darwinists try to extend that to say that all species have a common origin way back in time to a one-celled organism. AKA Macro-evolution, for which is little or no evidence. For an interesting read on this topic from a 'non-creationist' perspective, (though he is an intellegent design advocate) Michael Behe's Darwin's Black Box is one of the best.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

But according to evolutionary

But according to evolutionary biology, micro and macro are the same thing - this is a consequence of how they are defined. You should not use the terms micro and macro.

"You cannot argue that evolution occurs. It can be created in a laboratory, in our very own DNA mutation, and through observation of nature. Evolution does not equal atheism and it is a false dichotomy."

1) Evolution has not ever been reproduced in the laboratory.
2) DNA mutation is not proof of evolution, only proof that DNA can mutate.
3) Evolution has not been observed in nature.

You like most evolution advocates have been mislead into accepting an unproven scientific theory as fact.

There is no working model for the first cell, no proof that that is even possible - on this point alone, evolution is not proven, even if you had proven all the rest.

But I agree, evolution and Yah can coexist. The bible is not specific about how Yah created. It does not say that he "poofed" things into existence as is the common belief.

DNA mutation is not proof of evolution?

Evolution: change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.

This ownage was brought to you by the dictionary.

Evolution has not been observed in nature?

For more fun facts about how wrong you are please see books. These can be found at your local library.

1)Evolution in a Petri

1)Evolution in a Petri Dish


2)DNA and Mutations


3)"One example of natural speciation is the diversity of the three-spined stickleback, a marine fish that, after the last ice age, has undergone speciation into new freshwater colonies in isolated lakes and streams. Over an estimated 10,000 generations, the sticklebacks show structural differences that are greater than those seen between different genera of fish including variations in fins, changes in the number or size of their bony plates, variable jaw structure, and color differences." Wiki:Speciation

Evolution occurs at all times. It is not the idea that we came from a single cell or bacteria or something.

Columbus, Ohio

You understood nothing of

You understood nothing of what I said, and then proceeded by showing and saying more of the same thing.

Evolution has not been repeated in experiments. If you claim that a successful mutation in a lab experiment all-out proves evolution then you are a victim of the Evolution scam. In order to prove evolution, the theory needs to be able to predict future developments to within a certain degree of accuracy - that cannot be done as of yet.

"Evolution occurs at all times. It is not the idea that we came from a single cell or bacteria or something."

That isn't the definition but that is implicit in the idea, you can't claim that evolution is a fact when there is no verifiable method from elements to the first cell. That isn't how science works. Evolution is being held up to the same scientific standards as anthropogenic global warming, if it was held up to the standards of every other science it would not be so popular an idea.

Did you watch the video? You

Did you watch the video? You are considering evolution to be the source of life. It is not. That is the point I am making is that people are so misguided about what evolution actually is.

The definition is:

Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations.

That is evolution. Period. What you are speaking of is not evolution. Evolution by its definition is identifiable in laboratories as well as nature. It is undeniable. You have the absolute incorrect notion of what evolution is.

Columbus, Ohio

this reminds me of a t-shirt I once saw:

"God is dead"--Nietzche

"Nietzche is dead"--God

Darwin IS dead.

I don't get all worked up about it as some do, and I have studied it, possibly, more than many.

I HAVE studied it, from all angles.

I don't think people who profess to believe in God understand God's workings very well; I don't think most people even understand Darwin very well.

Darwin is a lot like Bhudda, who protested that any religious should be 'named' for him.

Darwin had a theory. It was a theory.

I believe that in our incapability of understanding God and in our desire to at least believe that there are humans who understand the world around us--

*we* (that dratted collective) have gotten *ourselves* into an uproar over evolution versus creation--

*I* believe and have for many years believed that when *we* find out the entire truth we will be dismayed at ourselves for having tried to simplify or complicate it all so much.
I believe that *we* will see how severe our tunnel vision has been in every possible way, how many options *we* excluded, how many mistakes in understanding and interpretation *we* made.

I believe in God; I believe He created *us*, ridiculous as *we* are--

and I believe that He gave us brains with which to think. Having said that, I don't think Darwin's theory is perfect.

But he was making an attempt to understand some things he observed in nature. Science has taken his theory FAR beyond what he ever intended it to be.

And humans underestimate God as well, misnaming Him, blaming things on Him that are not His "fault", etc.--

completely misunderstanding.

While driving down a highway at top speed, humans, at the wheel, are busy playing jacks on the bottom of the car floor!

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Nietzche said God is dead?

Nietzche said God is dead? I believe it one of his characters. I am careful about believing what I read in the NY Times.

Truth is taken by many as a thing that operates by magic. A bag of magic tricks that are useful without understanding the why and how. Both sides of the Darwinism/Creationism debate trotted out their magic tricks. Both sides had so much to offer but so little to give. Preachers, whether religious or scientific are a dreadful bore.

We can distinguish between faith and belief. Belief is a matter for the intellect (in solo intellectu). I can believe the Lions will win the championship. Belief is mere intellectual assent to one proposition or another. When my intellect passes so do my beliefs. They are dependent on my existence.

Faith, however, is not an intellectual assertion, but the basis for a certain kind of belief. Faith is the basis for our belief regarding things to be hoped for, it takes the place of a proof for what has no appearance.

Faith can not be had at will, it is not an intellectual exercise. Faith is an attitude, not a profession. It is an alignment, not yet rational. It is a recognition of the paradox of one's life. A life that recognizes its importance as well as its unimportance.

A life that believes its ultimate importance, must see others as unimportant. A life that believe its absolute unimportance seeks an important authority to live under. Both betray their potential. So it's been said only by dying to one's self can one truly live. This is not rational but real.

Beliefs can encourage or block a healthy faith, or cause it to be rejected. Many are called, too few choose. Its just to darn hard.

The gift of faith is the basis for human liberty.

PS Good post.

Free includes debt-free!

Thank you--


I know that wikipedia is not infallible, but this refers to his famous quote, and yes, I am sure that it has been misunderstood.

You've got some good points, too.

I find the 'either/or' tiring. I think the truth is somewhere most of us have not yet been willing, or able (I include myself) to go.

And I do believe in God, but I question the accuracy of much of the Bible, especially the Old Testament, though I am not one of those Christians who believes the Old Testament has no value.

I've found some interesting things in this discussion; I do, however, prefer the anti-war topics, so I don't know why I am on this discussion!

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

God is alive

Darwin is the one who is dead.

there is no way they both can

there is no way they both can exist. Either God did what he said he did or God is a liar.

Funny SIERRAHPBT! lmao

You wrote: "God did what he said he did or God is a liar."

How about a third option: "or Men, who had no science knowledge at the time (had the equivalent of an a 5th grade education (if that)) and while running around the dry, star-filled, Arab desert, had made God all up! Now why would he do that? For entertainment? Perhaps, and as a simple story to tell your curious 6 & 7 years olds when you had no answer other than "just because". Perhaps also God served uneducated Man's deep needs for a simple moral guidance of right and wrong, for an historical story of our ancient past, and for the reassurance that life (and his life) is not a delicious sentient momentary flicker on the sea of infinite time".

In peace & liberty,

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820


when you say fifth grade education, do you mean of today's fifth graders, or fifty years ago fifth graders or a hundred years ago fifth graders just asking because a hundred years ago fifth graders were way more knowledgeable than todays twelfth graders.

also how do we know that they only had a fifth grade education? seems to me that with as little infrastructure they had they did very well.

also you say they had no science knowledge. When you say science what do you mean? I would imagine knowing astronamy would count (for millinium it has told people where they are at). Not to mention they had some pretty advanced tools (again considering the infrastructure and need). Besides the Bible does mention science often. It tells us that the ants are female, it tells us that you can communicate with lightning, and it also tells us there are paths in the sea. The latter two proved very useful over the last two centuries.

SIERRAHPBT May be a little too theological at times....

But there is plenty of evidence, if one is an honest seeker, for an intellegent designer.

Here are just five:

1) THe Second Law of Thermodynamics. (and no, the Third Law does NOT cancel the Second, contrary to some opinions)

2) The Universe Is Expanding, and expanding at a precise rate to maintain life.
3) Observation of Cosmic Microwave Background radiation. Radiation from the Big Bang, proving the Universe had a beginning. Almost all scientists agree hat the Universe came to be in the Big Bang.(and thus HAS a cause) (I Believe in the Big Bang --God Spoke and BANG! There it was)

4)Great galaxy seeds, and the anthropic principle---Things are extremely fine-tuned for life. as Discover magazine marveled, "The universe is unlikely, very unlikely, Deeply, shockingly unlikely."
(only stars of a certain mass can maintain a planet with life, the star has to be located in the right kind of galaxy, the planet needs to be the right shape and distance from the star, the planet's orbit needs to be precise,etc.)

Finetuning of various constants: The Temperature of the Earth, size of the Earth relative to the Sun, the gravitational constant, the cosmological constant, and about twenty-five more. One expert has said there are more than thirty separate physical or cosmological constants that require precise calibration in order to produce a life-sustaining universe. (Behe, Dembski, and Meyer: Science and Evidence For Design In The Universe San Franscisco: Ignatius, 2000)

5) Einstein's Theory of Relativity: Predicts that either the Universe should be expanding or imploding, not static. Of course, if you go back far enough in time, you would find the single origin of the Universe, before which the Universe did not exist.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

The fallacy in theory

The fallacy in theory is that there is only one universe,Could there be as many as there are galaxies?Or stars?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Due to the complexity of the problem.....

this would only 'kick things up a notch', according to some cosmologists, while others say the skeptics are just using this as a metaphysical escape hatch.:

"Look, this is pure metaphysics. There's no real reason to believe such parallel worlds exist. The very fact that skeptics have to come up with such an outlandish theory is because the fine-tuning of the universe points powerfully toward an intellegent designer --and some people will hypothesize anything to avoid reaching such a conclusion." William Lane Craig.

Davies, Long, Polkinghorne, and Longley concur.

Robin Collins likes to keep an open mind, at least in regard to the theory of inflationary cosmology.

"Now, here's my overreaching point: even if Linde's theory could account for the existence of many universes, this does not destroy the case for design. It just kicks the issue up another level. In fact, I believe it would point toward design.

With the complexity of the universe, to have many that are as complex as ours would require a "many universes generator"---and it would require the right structure, the right mechanism, and the right ingredients to churn out new universes."

"Otherwise, you'd end up with a cosmic 'hockey puck." (as opposed to a cosmic bread loaf)

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

The big bang?

Could it really be that our universe was created by a collision with another?Could it be possible that we are thinking on a smaller scale than is real?Are we in the "Universe is flat" frame of mind when it may not be so?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

You kind of touched on this

You kind of touched on this but what amazes me is the extreme precision by which an atom has to be made to sustain any kind of organized universe.

Around 1/3 of the way down of the text of a speech by Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross is the title "The Extreme Precision of Physical Constants". It explains it much better then I can.

Know your stuff, learn real history and economics @LibertyClassroom.com

Thank you!

Hugh Ross is my favorite Old Earth Intellegent design advocate!

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

funny treg! lmao at one time

funny treg! lmao

at one time I was just like you.. I did not believe God existed. I set out to prove he did not exist. Guees what! God showed me he did exist. The bible is very accurate . Not only that archeology proves the bible correct. You can find these truths if you study and look. The problem is for most people they don't want to know the truth because that means they would realize that there is a God and that they would be held accountable.. ignorance is bliss I guess.

So that means if the bible is correct then those who run from it and make up stories about 5th grade educated people running around in the desert making up stories realize that there is a Loving caring creater,
that person realizes his whole life has to change.

Dang I gotta give up the porn, I gotta give up the affair with the secretary, I can't live a life of homosexuality, etc etc etc.. and ofcourse I have to come to Jesus and ask for forgiveness of my sins.

for some that is just to hard to do. Those people won't take the time to study the bible and get the truth, but they sure will slam into those who have because they are afraid of what they will find.. But what they will find is the most wonderfull freedom and liberty anyone can find.

The answers are there if you look.

porn, affairs, homosexuality....

These are the sins?

Sounds about right from a christian point of view. The people at my church would agree. I've been talking with the leadership at my church about the wars and such. Seems the general consensus is that the war is for the individual to decide upon, with guidance from his relationship with Jesus of course.

So sex is a sin and killing innocent people is a decision....I've about had it with us .....

Miamisburg, Montgomery County, Ohio

LOL..Ugh.Tell me of this

LOL..Ugh.Tell me of this archaeological evidence. And also tell me of the accuracies within the bible. There's nothing.

The irony

that this twaddle comes from a poster named 'Logic'.

An ad hominim attack, how terribly witty.

You know, if you hurry I bet you can still register the name of Logical Fallacy!

Good one bud. Shows why I

Good one bud. Shows why I hold the title Logic and you don't. Instead of debating any of your own thought you commit to meaningless banter. Carry on.