-18 votes

Did Darwin Kill God?

I don't want to promote that neocon-running-for-office's thread about evolution anymore.

Here is a wonderful documentary, Did Darwin Kill God?, on how evolution and God can and should coexist.

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVLRZkNeclE&feature=related

Did Darwin Kill God? Part2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikA25j99udc&NR=1

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbFW35IWMP8&feature=related

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3ZGmXDyG1c&feature=related

Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mgIA0NZdMU&feature=related

Part 6 isn't worth watching.

You cannot argue that evolution occurs. It can be created in a laboratory, in our very own DNA mutation, and through observation of nature. Evolution does not equal atheism and it is a false dichotomy.

This issue is not black and white. It is gray. Both sides on the extreme should watch this series and realize the either-or fallacy.

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there is a hierarchy of infinities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfinite_number

Georg Cantor, one of the most brilliant mathematicians ever, did much to help us understand infinity. Then he ended up in the loony bin :)

Infinity is quite fascinating mathematically. For example, imagine a hotel with an infinite number of rooms. Now imagine that all the rooms are booked up, and an infinite number of new guests show up. What to do? You simply ask each current guest to move to the room number 2n, where n is their current room number. Voila! You have freed up an infinite number of rooms for your infinite number of new guests. Doesn't that make your head spin?

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

Looney bin?? No way ay... I'm

Looney bin?? No way ay... I'm going to the brewery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4KTebUT6Mw

“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian.” ― Henry Ford.

The complete title of Darwin's famous book is:

The Origin of Species of Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favored Races in the Struggle for Life -- the favored race being the white race.

He also taught that women were biologically inferior to men and that human sexual differences were due in part to natural selection.
This is rather a narrow minded man in the end, and not a good role model for children, who are taught his theory as though absolute truth. Part of his popularity is that many elite and power seeking individuals use his theories to justify genocide or industrial monopoly.

"J. D. Rockefeller, who used Darwinian thought to justify industrial monopoly without restraint, said, "The growth of large business is merely a survival of the fittest."

"More ominous was the use of Darwin by Adolf Hitler. As early as 1923 in his book Mein Kampf, Hitler expressed his adherence to evolution in justifying genocide. "
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-w-whitehead/what-did-char...

I believe there is a prime creator who has created all species of living things, and evolution is part of the grand scheme of creation. But apes do not become humans. Humans will not become apes.

We evolve by our choices and the conditions of our environment; ice age might make humans hairier. We move in the direction of our choices within a lifetime and gain strength in that direction, whether it be the choice of physical, mental, emotional, or spiritual development.

In the end our collective choices determine our evolution as a species. Even in the midst of our present dark time in history, humans struggle with what they will value in the future, as the age of animal-human marked by ego, greed, seeking power over others, and seeking wealth, comes to a close.

We become a kinder more sensitive species of human seeking those values of the heart and spirit. THAT is evolution and the path prime creator created for us to move along, as we are ready to move.

strange criterion for dismissing a theory

If the guy that came up with the theory had some objectionable moral beliefs, the theory must be incorrect. Well, I got news for you. The inventor of the transistor, William Shockley, was an unrepentant racist. Are you going to stop using computers?

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

Evolution isn't a theory

It is just a hypothesis, and a ridiculous hypothesis at that.

Evolution still hasn't got explanations for any of the criticisms that have been postulated since Darwins time.

like, what exploded in the 'big bang'?

How did something create itself out of nothing?

How did life create itself out of something 'else'?

Where did the 1st 'simple' organisms get DNA(super computers)?

How did intelligence create itself?

Where is the archaeological evidence of ANY of these transformations?

I mean the list goes on and on, but these few 'issues' alone put the lie to evolution...

its called the evolutionary process.

Its called the evolutionary process and it is 100% fact.

What i think you are confused about is Abiogenisis which is life starting from nothing which is theory still.

Saying evolution is ridiculous is a surefire way to discredit yourself. The genome project is 100% irrefutable proof of evolution as well as numerous observational and experimental evidence.

Tools of war are not always obvious. The worst weapon is an idea planted in the mind of man. Prejudices can kill, suspicion can destroy, and a thoughtless, frightened search for a scapegoat has an everlasting fallout all of its own.

ok

The big bang theory has nothing to do with the biological theory of evolution. I don't know why you are bringing that into the discussion. As for how life started, that is an open question. There are many ideas out there, and if you are really interested, I recommend this course (wait till it goes on sale, though):

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.asp...

Seriously, doubting evolution is pointless and makes you look like a fool. I would, if I were you (which I am not :), focus on whether one can make the case that there is a divine hand guiding evolution.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

When I was a kid

The big bang theory WAS part of the biological theory as you call it.

And the evolutionary process was only a few 10's of thousands of years process. Unfortunately for dipsticks like you, people like me, quickly destroyed that nonsensical BS, so your masters pushed back the time frame...1st to hundreds of thousands, then to millions, then to hundreds of millions, then to billions of years.

Every claim made by your masters has been destroyed but your masters have not been disuaded, they just keep re-inventing what 'evolution' means.

The biblical story however, is eternal...always was and always will be.

I'm a bit new to the whole

I'm a bit new to the whole evolution question and still open minded. My question is, since "modern-humans" only showed up about 200,000 years ago on this planet, and they did not branch off from some other species already here, then where did they come from? Also, how does this timeline jive with the 6,000 year old bible time line?

I'm open-minded too

I ALWAYS look at every question with an open mind.

I have studied every religion of importance, and analyzed the claims and counter clams of evolutionists and creationists.

As such the predominance of the evidence leads me conclusively to disregard the hypothesis of evolution in the sense that most would ascribe to it.

Plainly 99% of those who believe in evolution do so strictly on faith, having themselves NO personal understanding of the so-called 'science' behind their faith, and have demonstrated in this debate no stomach to match wits with me by trying to defend their faith.

I have faith in that which has withstood the test of time, are there things that are not clear to me, of course, but in the big scheme of things the biblical creation story, AND all of the rest of biblical teachings provide a much more coherent and BEAUTIFUL thing to believe in, the BEST thing to believe in, the ONLY thing to believe in that provides any hope for the future of mankind.

Evolution is an ugly and base belief system that reduces humanity to it's lowest common denominator.

But like I said I am open minded and am willing to give you a chance to convince of the error in my logic.

Way to go on a rant and

Way to go on a rant and ignore his question! You should also know that to reasonable people, your claim that 99% of all believers in evolution do so purely on faith comes across as one of the most hypocritical, willfully ignorant things I've heard all year. Have you noticed the people who call themselves Christian?

Freedom in our lifetime! - fiol.us

"My question is, since

"My question is, since "modern-humans" only showed up about 200,000 years ago on this planet, and they did not branch off from some other species already here, then where did they come from? Also, how does this timeline jive with the 6,000 year old bible time line?"

I don't have the answers to this, which is why I asked.

At least one genetic study indicated modern humans

showed up 99,000 years ago. So how does a 99,000 year time line jive with a 200,000 time line? It doesn't because they are based on different calibrations of the mitochondrial clock. You can research more on what parameters are fed into the models to 'calibrate'.

I see you too have no answers too!

Where did those simple organisms get their DNA?

The truth is the theory of evolution itself is the only thing that 'evolves' into something else.

Fool? Ha!

The bible has withstood the test of time.

Only those who have never seriously studied the bible, or those who have only 'studied' it from an antagonistic perspective say the ignorant things that you say.

ugh, why do I bother

Enjoy your bible, brother.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

You didn't bother

I challenged your assertions and you wussed out of the debate.

What's wrong no conviction in your beliefs or just scared to put your sacred 'evolution' to the skewer?

Either way you lose.

Not dismissing a theory.

But rather examining the use of the theory to justify greed and genocide. Many good ideas and inventions and theories are used for personal gain and in wars.

ok, I agree with you there

I am not doubting your claim that evolution has been used to justify evil acts.

“With laws shall our land be built up, but with lawlessness laid waste.”
-Njal Thorgeirsson

The division of Science and Faith only occurred at about 400BC

Before then, there was no separation of the two subjects.

Today, Quantum Science is bringing Spirituality back into the same picture as it used to be. Everything at its pre-partical core is a wave or energy form. I prefer the word Consciousness rather than God because many hear God and think man in clouds with beard and sandals and not the essence of all creation of which we as human beings are a Self-Aware manifestation.

Religions are metaphors for ONE Truth they ALL share. Yet we have been led to fight over these metaphors while the Truth is kept hidden in secret societies in ancient texts in private libraries. The Egyptians have this Whole reality well documented and today we see their influence not only in the Masonic Order but the Vatican as well.

This division of this whole knowledge was the catalyst in how the world came to be where it is today. But as I mentioned the reunification is among us but we are still fighting over metaphors.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Many have yet to struggle free

of those who control their minds with fear; governments, media, churches, banks, the NWO. However, many are awake, and the awakening cannot be stopped, because it makes people fearless...beyond the mind control of fear.

Danger is real, Fear is an option

Fear clouds judgment, creativity, intuition, thoughtfulness, even Love; all of which are necessary to find solutions to the Dangers we face.

I had a thought the other day about the phrase "think positive" and realized that as well-intentioned as that phrase may be, it is very misleading. One cannot THINK positive; one can only Think THEN have an emotional response to the thought that is either positive or negative. Two people may think of a puppy and have two completely different emotional responses to it. One may say, "awwwwwww, so cute!" while the other may experience anxiety and fear of the animal due to some past experience. So I believe that a more accurate and useful way to say it is, "First BE (or FEEL) Positive, THEN Think."

I have made far better choices in the last few years with that principle. Remove the negative emotions first, then allow yourself to contemplate whatever it is you need to work through. It's where things like 'Stop and count to 10' come from, where you deliberately stop yourself from the momentum of negative emotion (sadness, anger or fear), use the power of your mind to THINK of things that induce positive emotions, and dive back in.

On a global level, dealing with these dangerous institutions that inspire fear in their own respective ways, it becomes clear that we cannot "fight" them from the same space they have pushed us into. We must rise above the Fear so that we may look down upon them with Love and even Appreciation for being such a stark contrast to the abundance of Good in this life. "They" just have bigger and louder "toys" but they themselves are smaller men.

I feel the changes coming, and many are already unfolding in their own subtle ways. The world is becoming transparent thanks to the information technology we have today. Sure, we are made to Fear it as the surveillance state but it also becomes a place where evil can no longer hide and pass through the shadows as easily as before. And as the Light shines on these shadows, they scatter, condense and become more Visible, as we see happening today. And you are right clynbrit, it will not stop. The momentum has already become too strong.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience"—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

NO.

There are some who believe they are descendant from apes or some primordial ooze. And if that is what you decide to believe then more power to you. But only those who are made in the image of Elohim have anything to look forward to after this life. That of course has two meanings and both are true. Man was made in Gods image and just as he made everything else in this world to descend from its own seed, man descends from man. Darwinism and Creation cannot coexist.

Darwinism can not coexist

Darwinism can not coexist with a crabbed, ignorant, backwater conception of God. You Creationists have demonstrated that over and over.

LOL

I win.

Yup, you admit you have a

Yup, you admit you have a crabbed, ignorant, backwater conception of God.

The Theory of Natural Selection, Evolution, Still Stands

What I have found interesting is the wonderful books by the late Robert Ardrey. For my fellow evolutionists and libertarians, check him out. Notice how nicely libertarian-ism and the story of man's evolution fit together. The book TERRITORIAL IMPERATIVE and THE HUNTING HYPOTHESIS was particularly informative. And notice still that the leftists evolutionists have resisted his findings about property and man as a hunter/killer.

Finally, I would like to say to my fellow (evolutionists-libertarian-patriots), relax. Relax, for evolution even explains why so many people including hard core scientists themselves believe. Why they feel god or know god exists. So relax. Relax in the knowledge that changing their point of view is futile.

Relax and realize that this is especially interesting because it is really we, you and I, who are the odd man out sort to speak. We atheists are the 'freak of nature'. We are the one's 'not normal' because we do not feel or know god. Take the sincere claims by our fellow believers at face value. Cringe yes when they twist and misstate what evolution is and does and how it works and what it found. Count that as 'willful ignorance', a phenomenon common to us all when our beliefs are challenged.

But it seems we atheists are a bit like those men who are color blind, cannot see green or red hues. Yet, in the science of the 1880's, dissection of the eye showed nothing. The man who could not see color and the man who could, appeared to have nothing 'wrong' with his eyes. Today of course we know about rods and cones and the pathways of sight and color through the optic nerve and to particular regions of the brain that sift out color from the data.

It seems clear that evolving man evolved 'with gods', and as with many traits, its been selected for. Brain science is learning in leaps and bounds about how the brain processes data, filters and manages the information it gains from the outside world. We have not one but 3 'language processing centers' apparently. And it is not just conjecture that there is a 'god feeling' center as well. Those of us without it, like the colored blind man who cannot see red and green, 'will never know god'.

So relax.

Now you and I might notice how tied into the "moral complex" is this center that 'knows god'. So, understand the resistance. If you and I like the color blind man misses the point when he says, "what green ball? What red ball? They are all balls".

What is it that the believers want to say about those green and red balls? Answer: Its a moral thing. And notice how convient it is. Like finding the last number in pi, it stops a progression that will infinately last and so, GIVE NO REASSURANCE. And reassurance is a positive thing to have in an unknown world, a world in which you must make deciesions, moral ones in particular, and you must make them know and not be bogged down in a never-ending regression of causation, particularly a moral causation. I submit, and I doubt I am the first to do so, that that this ability has selective value. That 'self assured' morally confident being', is much more formabled a fighter than the one crying over the water buffolo's life they just killed or wondering 'what will happen to me after grandpa dies?'. Having an cebral cortext that gives 'moral certainty', that ends and unending chain of moral regression, ie "thats gods plan, god did it, thats the way of the gods, etc." allows for that moral certainty to arrise and so that human animal can carry on.

Can you imagine for a second how amazingly important this is? Imagine that brain science came up with a 'consciousness pill', a pill that we can give to the social species of say the wild wolf. We give this amazing pill to a family of wolves and also image we have our science man out there, in full wolf costume of course, interviewing these newly conscious wolves. "Say Mr. Wolf, can I have a word with you for a minute?" .... Mr. Wolf"Yes, what do you want?".... "I just want to ask you a few questions that is all."....Mr. Wolf, "You are not going after our raindeer are you?" ...."Oh no, you can have them all to yourself. I just want to ask you a question or two, can I? Do you have the time?"....Mr. Wolf, "Ok what is it?" ....."Well you seem really determined to go catch and kill that deer. Why?"......Mr. Wolf, "Why? What do you mean why? Because that is why?"......"I mean why are you going to catch that deer and kill it?.....Mr. Wolf, "Because I am dam hungry you fool, and I have family of pups to feed you idiot". ... "Sure, but then what?".....Mr. Wolf, "WHat do you mean, then what?"....."I mean sure, you catch the deer, you kill it, you eat it, but then you are soon hungry all over again in a day or two. Then you must hunt again, kill again, eat again. To what end is all of this activity?" ....Mr. Wolf, "I kill because I must live you idiot."...."Yes, you must live, but did you not witness your old papa wolf die of old age? Will that not happen to you too?"..... Mr. Wolf, "Yes, we did see him die. Will that happen to me? I don't know. I think if if hunt and kill and eat, I will be fine. I will not die."....."But how long can that go on? Will not your pups be big in a few years and that means you will be old? What then?"....Mr. Wolf, "I see what you mean! Holy shit, no matter how much hunting and killing I do to live, its pointless. Oh I am doomed! Oh no, i am starting to feel sick. Oh no, now I suddenly don't care anymore. Why go on? Life is so so so so so so so so gee what is the point of it all? I feel as though I cannot go on. I get what you mean. What is the point of all this? And you know, the thought of killing only satisfied my stomach, and I tried not to think about what I just did. I know we wolves have reputations but seriously, who wants blood on their hands for killing?" ....."What are you going to do know Mr. Wolf, now that you see the futility in life? What are you going to do now that you can see that killing is ending a life?".....Mr. Wolf, "I can't go on. I am feeling sick."....."Maybe you are just hungry and you really do need to go kill that deer for you and your family?"......Mr. Wolf, "No that is not it. I can see I will be old in 3 years or perhaps 5 years tops. I will die. Oh what is the point of all this!??"

So you see, as comical as that is, that is what Australopithecus went through as their consciousness over time expanded and expanded to eventually cover their own lives. Rock spear tips have been found in South Africa and dated to over 500,000 years old. Man has been a hunter, and at some point crossed over to being a 'conscious hunter', and this caused big problems, 'pi' problems of 'why' as well as 'moral' problems of killing for a living. Without a 'god complex' that ends the infinite progression of 'whys' and pulls the individual out of the "Oh the Futility of it All", a death gripping death spiral will commence upon the conscious being. You must recall, the action mandate that life gives to life is "To Live", as in...you are doing this because you want 'to live', and yet the minute that conscious life can ask, "why? It all seems so futile", is the minute pain starts in. How to move on? How to have the self assurance of the "to live" commandment? How to not question killing? The god complex is both a 'to live' commandment and a moral commandment that answers 'why kill' by circumscribing a whole moral complex 'to live by'.

Now here comes along these 5% color blind freaks, ie atheist, born without a god complex. These people don't 'feel god' or 'know god' and openly acknowledge that life is futile. AND THEY SEEM OK WITH IT!!! And when the godcomplex thinkers point out the miracle-like beginnings of the big bang and evolution's story of how life began, it doesn't seem to phase us! How upsetting to the fellow 95% of humans out there who just 'know something is out there' and rest in the knowledge that they are doing life 'morally right'.

Well, its a theory anyway.

Hope you enjoyed it.

Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

I enjoyed it

immensely :-) I just like debating these things.

-Matthew Good

miscellany

"It is absurd for the Evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that it is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything." G.K. Chesterton

It is hard to believe that the entire universe, complete with the laws of physics, was able to create itself out of an explosion of nothing.

"And so when you're not supported by data you discard the hypothesis. That's how science works. You don't believe something just 'cuz you want to or think something's true just 'cuz it feels good. At some point you've gotta confront the data."

Neil deGrasse Tyson (who contradicts the above statement because he believes in evolution sans data)

I have a neighbor who's a farmer, and he has a beautiful pasture full of cattle.
I went over and said, "This is a beautiful cattle farm you have here."
He said, "I don't raise cattle, I raise pigs."
I said, "Pigs? This is a whole herd of cattle."
And he said, "They're cattle now, but after I breed these cattle enough times, they'll evolve into pigs. I also got a whole herd of ducks out back that are gonna be sheep."

"[Mankind is] an insignificant little twig that was never meant to be and is here only by accident." Stephen Jay Gould, former evolutionist

Although it is widely believed, "evolution contributes nothing to our understanding of empirical science and thus plays no essential role in biomedical research or education." – Dr. David Menton

No King but Jesus, no President but Ron Paul

Cyril's picture

I understand Charles Darwin was a man.

I understand Charles Darwin was a man.

Not a cow. Not a dog. Not a fish. Not a snail.

Thus, he was a human being. Like us.

I also understand his body died on earth. Although, granted, his ideas, his posterity, didn't. I personally beg to differ about those, but whatever.

Now, to the question:

trying to force myself into that vein of speculations, I might - maybe - accept the idea, one day, that man, one man, "has killed God" when...

... man will be able to create intelligent life from a heap of inanimate random matter.

Oh, and to fully qualify, that form of life should preferably show evident signs of compassionate, selfless love for its other instances.

You know, like parents for their children, etc.

Makes sense?

I suspect this ballpark of life-creation capabilities of man (out of science or whatnot) is not for tomorrow, though.

My .02.

Peace.

"Cyril" pronounced "see real". I code stuff.

http://Laissez-Faire.Me/Liberty

"To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous." -- Confucius

To the anti-evolution people on this site

You are ignorant, uneducated and a discredit to the advancement of humanity. The arguments "no animal evolving into another" is flat out stupid and wrong. We have seen it, in lizards transported to different islands, in fish separated and evolved separately. The fact that you are too lazy to look it up and so brainwashed to be immediately opposed to it is sickening. Every time you post your childlike criticism of evolution based on what you perceive it to be (monkey into man overnight or species never changing) you make this entire movement anti-intellectual and severely retarded. Jefferson and Paine, deists, would read this garbage in this day and age and think of you as uneducated rabble wanting religion to replace government. The same mistake socialists make, but in reverse.

No train to Stockholm.