-18 votes

Did Darwin Kill God?

I don't want to promote that neocon-running-for-office's thread about evolution anymore.

Here is a wonderful documentary, Did Darwin Kill God?, on how evolution and God can and should coexist.

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVLRZkNeclE&feature=related

Did Darwin Kill God? Part2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikA25j99udc&NR=1

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbFW35IWMP8&feature=related

Did Darwin Kill God? Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3ZGmXDyG1c&feature=related

Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mgIA0NZdMU&feature=related

Part 6 isn't worth watching.

You cannot argue that evolution occurs. It can be created in a laboratory, in our very own DNA mutation, and through observation of nature. Evolution does not equal atheism and it is a false dichotomy.

This issue is not black and white. It is gray. Both sides on the extreme should watch this series and realize the either-or fallacy.



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To LukeO

Show me where a lizard turned into something else you retard!

nothing--------------something--------------micro-life----------------fish----------------monkey--------------man...

Same old story and not even one of the ----'s has been filled in since!HAHAHA

I believe in evolution

to an extent, or maybe adaptation. For example, a pack of dogs get stranded in a remote freezing island, decades later, they are found to have "adapted" to the different climate by "evolving" into a thicker haired breed. But what I cannot seem to understand is if Man is here because of evolution, why is he the only creature on this rock that can do math? Or heck, something much simpler, starting a fire? Why is it that only man has "evolved" to the point we were able to harness fire?

“When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” – Dresden James

That's called mutation.

Not speciation.

The unproven THEORY of evolution states that one species turns into another turns into another. Amoeba -> fish -> amphibian -> ape -> human.

Honestly, I think that's likely what happened. My issue is with numbskull atheists who believe that evolution is scientifically proven. They are religionists no different than any creationist BECAUSE the theory of evolution can not be scientifically proven EVER. It's impossible. And, yet, they irrationally believe it is anyway and that everyone else is stupid. Which, of course, makes them stupid.

But they'll come up with all kinds of contortion, spin, rationale and illogical statements to support their religious belief in evolution. It's religious because they BELIEVE in something that can never be scientifically proven via the scientific method, but they are brainwashed by modern humanistic culture into believing it's concluded, proven science when it is not at all.

That said, is it LIKELY to have happened? Probably. Is it "science"? No. Even Charles Darwin himself said it is not scientific for precisely the reasons listed above.

Macro evolution

Dogs don't turn into beavers for Christs sake, they grow more hair!

The bible says that Jesus created all of the animals just as they are today, and nothing the atheists/evolutionists have thrown at the creation story makes any sense at all when you compare it to the creation story.

I believe in evolution

But even to me, you sound like a rabid fundamentalist. You berate people for not being rational, yet your comments are so loaded with emotional language that you can cut the irony with a knife.

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Which God?

I think many gods were forgotten long before Darwin's theories explained how we evolved. I know this site is full of christians, some even being creationists, but darwin didn't kill God... What he killed was creationism.

No train to Stockholm.

Watching 'The Bible' on the

Watching 'The Bible' on the history channel has reaffirmed for me how ridiculous the christian and jewish religions are.

watching "the Bible" on the history channel

has reaffirmed to me how ridiculous the tv and media is. Frankly the 1950 something move "the ten commandments" had better special effects, and was sadly far more accurate.

Agreed. I'm visiting a friend who has a TV

or I would have never heard of it. Sounded interesting. 15 minutes in and I couldn't watch anymore. Would rather watch Veggie Tales.

πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα

evolution does not contradict religion

I believe that railing against evolution is pointless. Only the most stubborn creationists doubt evolution. Rather, the main criticism these days is directed at the mechanism of evolution, namely whether random mutations are the driving force behind natural selection. There are quite a few books out there that criticize Darwinism from this angle, and I recommend reading those if you want to get involved in the debate.

The current debate is not whether or not evolution occurs (indisputable), but whether or not there is a driving force (i.e., a divine hand) that directs evolution. In this, the Anthroposophists have the strongest argument, IMHO.

For the best argument in favor of directed evolution, I highly recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Development-Dynamics-Humans-Other-Prim...

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

No...

Religion does. Thomas Paine eradicated religion in The Age of Reason before Darwin was even swimming in his daddy's sack.

No train to Stockholm.

Just like the higgs boson.

Darwin did no more to defeat the idea of God than the Higgs Boson (God particle)did to defeat it. I'm atheist personally, but I find that a lot of scientists and mathematicians seem to lack the philosophical and logical awareness to really understand their findings. Darwin's work did nothing to explain where life came from, just where differences in life came from. Likewise, whom ever decided to call the Higgs Boson the "God particle" must have had an extremely confused idea of implications of the find. Maybe they both just thought it would bring them more fame. But neither do anything to discount the existence of God. The most that can be said is that Darwin's work refutes the creation story of some religions, but that hardly refutes god.

Free market capitalism isn't right for America because it works better. It's right because it's free (and it works better).

Thanks snakepit

I am a follower of Christ who believes in the divine origins of both life and scripture. Not a single scientific discovery that I am aware of has ever caused me to seriously question these beliefs, quite the opposite.

In my view, the Genesis story was never intended to be a scientific blow by blow account of creation, even a cursory glance at the originial hebrew text confirms this beyond any reasonable doubt.

Unfortunately, many of my "brethren" will instantly brand me a heretic for even suggesting as much, while the non believing athiest (more often than not) will mercilessly accuse me of being an unenlightened fool. Such is the nature of man. You sir, are a rare and welcome exception to this rule. Thank you for your honest, insightful commentary on this topic.

πολλα γαρ πταιομεν απαντες ει τις εν λογω ου πταιει ουτος τελειος ανηρ δυνατος χαλιναγωγησαι και ολον το σωμα

You can argue that

evolution does not occur (macro) because we have not observed, neither have we seen in history, any kind of animal becoming another kind. Like a fish turning into a banana or a monkey becoming a man. The missing link is still missing. Its also a misconception to use the adjective 'the' in the missing link. It should be a missing link because it would take many millions of missing links to connect monkeys to man based on evolutionary theories alone.

Micro evoultion does occur though and its observed. These are subtle changes like hair/skin color, nose shape etc. I prefer to call this creation adaptation.

When people try to combine the theory of evolution and the God of the Bible you get some compromises that don't work.

Simply, evolution states that before man there were many billions of years of death BEFORE man came into the world. The Bible says that man BROUGHT death into the world. Can't have it both ways.

There will always be this division in the Liberty movement, unfortunately.

Finally, Darwin and no one else dead, alive or spirit can kill God. Though the world pass away His word will remain.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

.......

Are you retarded? Whales have femur bones.... Snakes have been born with vestigial limbs. Evolution is a fact. It happened. Get over it you religious nut job. You're like keynesian grasping on to the multiplier.

No train to Stockholm.

its not a femur bone

these are bones/anchor points used by whales and snakes in reproduction.

http://www.creationtoday.org/do-snakes-and-whales-have-hind-...

Micro evolution is fact. Macro is a piece of wishful thinking that developed as a reason to not choose God over ones selfish desires. You are acting even more fanatical about your religion of evolution than I am with my 'religion.'

You lose an argument before you even begin with your approach and name calling.

If you want to have an honest debate answer this question and we can begin: Do you believe in good and evil? I'm pretty sure I've asked you this already on a different thread and got no answer.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Man Created God.

.

Many men created many Gods.

And none of them gave an ounce of evidence.

No train to Stockholm.

Darwinism is a faith based religion...

because it requires a giant leap of faith to believe that all life evolved from single cell organisms. Scientists acknowledge this is an unproven theory, just as science acknowledges the "missing link" between humans and apes. But public schools teach evolution as if it were proven fact, when in reality, it's nothing more than a secular State religion that's being forced on citizens via public education.

Adherents to the Darwinist religion try conflate a species proven ability to adapt with evolutionary theory. This is no different than saying the existence of life proves that God exists. So citizens should demand that Darwinism be recognized as a religion, and if it's taught in schools, it should be part of a religious studies program that includes all major religions.

http://www.dailypaul.com/277342 (Rand Paul: One person can make a difference)
http://www.StandUpForYourRights.me/?p=1264 (Fast and Furious hearing)

Here is a difference

Science operates within a specific framework of methodology (observation of a phenomenon, making a hypothesis, performing experiment and analyses). The result of scientific inquiry are laws of nature and theories. Those are either refined or substituted by new theories when new data becomes available. Since there is no miracles, no major theories are thrown out altogether. For example Einstein's General Theory of Relativity only refined Newton's Laws.

Comparing science with rigid religious dogma is not a very strong argument, but it surely might sit well among religious. For those, no argument is needed, at all, since god is allowed to work in mysterious ways.

This is an excellent point.

The problem is that specie to specie evolution has not been scientifically proven.

Belief in specie-to-specie evolution as being scientific fact *IS* a religious belief, because it has not been scientifically proven.

As you point out, in order to prove something scientifically it MUST follow the scientific method, NO EXCEPTIONS.

If it is not proven via the scientific method, it is not proven PERIOD.

It doesn't matter how many people think it is. It doesn't matter how much sense it makes. It doesn't matter how strongly obvious you FEEL it is. It either was proven via repeatable tests yielding the same results each time or it wasn't.

Specie-to-specie evolution hasn't been, nor can it be. This is precisely why Charles Darwin himself said his theory was not science.

Belief in evolution as proven fact is a religion, no different than an other creationist theory, since neither have been nor can be scientifically proven.

Here is the difference between...

Christians and most evolutionists. Anyone who believes in the theory that all life evolved from single cell organisms, believes in miracles. But unlike Christians who admit they believe in miracles, most evolutionists won't admit that their faith based religion requires a belief in miracles.

http://www.dailypaul.com/277342 (Rand Paul: One person can make a difference)
http://www.StandUpForYourRights.me/?p=1264 (Fast and Furious hearing)

A belief in miracles is not needed for evolution, only faith..

in the scientists that came before. As long as the science is repeatable, it is placed as a theory. There is so much science out there that at some point we must have faith that they have done their homework.
Did you believe your math teachers when they gave you the pythagorean theorum? Of course. Why? Because with numerous tests and practical applications it has proven itself. Does an apple keep falling if we drop it? Yes, then a thing called gravity is proven. Do organisms change do to mutation of the genes? Yes, so a thing called evolution is proven.
Saying, "Miracle," is a way to describe something science has not been able to describe yet. As most things, it is just a matter of time, ie.. steam engine, airplane, DNA, genetic engineering, etc..

If you do not believe in the theory's behind the applications that help people everyday, how can you believe in a God that is supposedly personal yet never stops tragedy?

-Matthew Good

You are absolutely correct.

Can you cite the repeatable tests those scientists conducted where an ape turned into a human?

No you cannot because those tests were not conducted.

Which means the THEORY has never been scientifically proven, nor can it be.

Belief in evolution as fact is just one more religionist creationist belief system since it has not been nor can it be ever proven.

I'm sorry but

nowhere in the history of mankind have we observed one kind of animal becoming another kind. For the purpose of this and above comments a single cell organism becoming anything more especially enough to create all life. It just does not work that way where you get to say "it's proven" and try to point to all these studies, etc, etc. that still don't prove anything. Mutation proves micro evolution which is the changes in everything we see around us in nature whether it be different colors and other variations in a species. It does not in any way at all prove the evolution theory true. I could use the same info and prove that God exists because of the obvious intelligent design and complexity everywhere in this world.

Also, if you believe the world was created with or without an intelligent designer you do believe in miracles. For a belief in evolution you need random chance (random chance that this world would be created out of nothing is...pretty nil) plus X amount of time (which has had a history of increasing as evolution is continually debunked). Time is your secret miracle ingredient.

God does not create tragedy. Yes he allows it to happen and as someone who loves God and who has gone through quite a bit of tragedy I understand a lot and am yet learning. Simply stated - God wants you to give him glory even through your problems, trials etc. The greater the problem, the more glory for God and lots of times the greater the outcome is when you come out of the tragedy. Why do your parents spank or punish you? To reprove you, to make you stronger so you can deal with other things that will happen. No difference here.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

some observed speciation events:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

I will look into these a bit more

The only one right now that seems to jump out at me is that the speciation in the cichlid fishes. Did they document this 4000 years through the fossils or something?

Did any of the examples actually become something else? Did the mice mutate and become non-mice? Not sure where the macro is. They are great examples of micro evolution though.

Isaiah 2:4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

what's your definition of a species?

Let's have it

“The welfare of the people in particular has always been the alibi of tyrants.” — Albert Camus

Well let's take an example.

You can look up the Latin and subset as finely as you like to support your own assertions. I'm ok with that because you STILL will not be able to demonstrate a scientific proof for your position.

Fish->Primate

Ape->Human

Again, slice those as finely as you would like to.

But note, I am NOT saying that evolution did NOT occur. It very well may have. I AM asserting that it has not been nor can it ever be scientifically proven as in order to scientifically prove something it MUST go through the scientific method NO EXCEPTIONS.

I am further asserting that if you BELIEVE it is scientifically proven, that you are a religionist, no different than any other creationist, since your BELIEF is based on FAITH, not science.