-6 votes

Ron Paul 2012: Time to Run as an INDEPENDENT?

In the history of Presidential Races, a few in my lifetime have had an Independent in the mix.

The wonderful thing has been in the final months of the Presidential election, the Independent has been up there on the stage, debating one on two with the Democrat and the Republican.

When all eyes turn to the election in the final 3-4 months, having the national "choice" be between three candidates, the voting public reports time and again that they are happy to have 3 choices, rather than just 2.

With the voting public thoroughly dissatisfied with both Congress and the two major parties, more than any time in history, ... this just may be the year of the independent Presidential candidate. More then ever, a 3 choice might just be the voting public's way of saying to the two parties, "we reject you both! You both have screwed up!"

John Anderson tried it.

Ross Perot tried it.

Pat Buchanan tried it.

The question is... Will Ron Paul try it?

The GOP race is already set. It will be Romney.

The only question is for Sarah Palin. Does she want to run as VP again? Certainly Mike Huckabee wants the offer, but he won't get it until Sarah makes up her mind. And the GOP will not offer it to Sarah until she (and Glenn Beck) delivers the Tea Party to the GOP. Fox news has done its bit by giving both Huckabee and Palin their own TV shows. (Ron got nothing--throw him to the Fox business financial news on very late night and very Earlie Morning news casts and let those RP crazy whore the video to their friends on the web).

That is the only inside game going on; who is the VP?. Romney is the GOP choice and will get all the money, time and support. Michael Steele is under pressure from all sides because of this one single thing, he has not said privately that he backs Romney....so Steele may be gone and replaced with Newt/Huckabee/Palin, ie the one who fails to get the VP go-ahead.

Bechtel Corporation, the owner of the Republican Party (recall folks the party is private organization and is owned by someone) has met extensively with Romney, and he is as on board with "the war on terror" more than Bush Jr ever was. Huge Contracts for Bechtel and the rest? You betcha. As for Jim DeMint, Ron Paul, Newt Grinrich, and all others, they are the side show colors that will be used USED by the media to make Romney appear as the "reasonable & logical" choice. The recent Gallop poll of 908 republican voters and hundreds more like that will be used to TELL THE VOTERS who "their" choices are. For you young guys/gals under 40, I know it my be hard for you to see, but this is how it is.

So come 2012 the American Choices will be:

#1) Democrat Party -- Barack Obama/Biden
#2) Republican Party -- Mitt Romney/Palin or Huckabee
#3) Independent -- Ron Paul/ Gary Johnson

In peace & liberty,
Treg

PS... for those who still do not know that a TV Debate is about who answered the popular answer... watch; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RjeybojP9w

On TV, its NOT a battle of Ideas..its a battle to get YOUR 20 second remarks in the news as many times as you can (that establishes 'legitimacy'.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7QngRXPde4&feature=related

When Ross Perot made his message against Debt, Spending, and overseas military bases...America had just STARTED to listen... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hFG0dvYy3M

But today in 2010 People are READY for this message.
Today if they heard "giant sucking sound" they would NOT laugh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1C_S6ls

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Are you guys Frackin Serious?!?!

If you've read some of my posts you know that I'm usually long winded, so when I keep this short I would ask that you consider the meaning of these words.

The Republican Party is being REBORN!

This isn't 2008, this is going to be 2012 :)

Now, stop your whining, stop your complaining, stop alienating yourselves from your fellow Americans, contaminated as they may be... and start making friends!

The status quo, the establishment, and the powers that have f'd us over for so long have REALLY (FINALLY) screwed the pooch, and I'm SHOCKED that so many people are RUNNING from this FANTASTIC opportunity, to the "familitary" of the independent ticket.

Suck it up people, and stand tall for the Republican party that you signed up to represent.

The problem is not the

The problem is not the underhandedness of the established GOP. The problem is not Ron Paul running as a Republican. The problem is the MEDIA and its corporate owners. They seem to run the political scene.

Amazing

50 candidates for Miss America, 2 for president?

Formerly rprevolutionist

There looks to be 50 candidates

That will be running in the GOP alone.

And the voters yawn

Its a 3 way race, the question now is, does the R3VOLution know it?

Our choices will be:

Obama
Romney

and ?

This is where all the attention will go. Do we now want to make the most of it?

In peace & liberty,
Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Even THOMAS FRIEDMAN feels it coming.. where are YOU?

Third Party Rising
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Published: October 2, 2010

"I continue to be astounded by the level of disgust with Washington, D.C., and our two-party system — so much so that I am ready to hazard a prediction: Barring a transformation of the Democratic and Republican Parties, there is going to be a serious third party candidate in 2012, with a serious political movement behind him or her — one definitely big enough to impact the election’s outcome."

"There is a revolution brewing in the country, and it is not just on the right wing but in the radical center. I know of at least two serious groups, one on the East Coast and one on the West Coast, developing “third parties” to challenge our stagnating two-party duopoly that has been presiding over our nation’s steady incremental decline."

Read all here: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/opinion/03friedman.html?_r=3

Again, even Thomas Friedman feels it coming, so where are YOU R3VOLution????? Are you now sucking on the GOP tit? That's so 2007.

In peace & liberty,
Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

I don't understand your reference to FDR.

His cousin, former President Theodore Roosevelt ran as an independent and came in second, ahead of the incumbent, William Howard Taft; but, Teddy didn't win that election.

Ask your self this folks .

Do we want to end our presidential campaign in early march or do we want to end it on election day in November.Ive always heard from this crowd that educating is more inportant then winning elections. Lets choose our destiny instead of letting the GOP choose it for us

Any decent organized

Independent could win the Presidentcy in 2012.

I saw Dr.Paul's team up close & they were not efficently organized to win a general election.

I think if Dr.Paul goes Independent with an inclusive group of honest leaders from both sides of the isle, he could win,

with 1/3 of the voters out there registered as Independent....

It just means there is a ready market to be tapped $$ wise and support wise.

= KISS =

= Keep it Simple Stupid =

= The Independent Party just needs to Stand for only ONE THING: Giving Independents a paid for TELEVISED NATIONALIZED TV DEBATE PLATFORM.

Notice, we need not sell Ron Paul or anyone else, make a platform, or push any ideas.

The VOTERS are THERE.

Moreover, THE MONEY IS THERE.

The question for YOU is, where do you want to take this R3VOLUtion?

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

No third party candidate has won the presidency...

since Abraham Lincoln. We sometimes forget, the Republican Party, at its inception, was a third party.
It became, in a couple of years, the dominent party, as the Whig Party disintegrated and the Democratic Party split over slavery.

Glad to read one of your responders is from Arizona; because, I believe, you have the most pivotal Senate race in the country. So far, I've created five video ads for David Nolan (LP) and, were we to stage one money bomb for (to pay for commercial broadcast of the ads), I'm certaiin Dave would have a very good chance of beating John McCain.

Whig Party

The Whig Party went defunct in the election of 1956, holding a convention, but not selecting a candidate for President, but instead endorsing the Know Nothing candidate, Millard Fillmore. The Republican Party was started by former Whigs and ran its first candidate for President in 1856, western explorer John Fremont, in an anemic first attempt.

Don't forget FDR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_party_%28United_States%29

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Driving to work in Arizona....I hear on the Radio that

"1/3 of registered Arizona voters are Independent voters"

Wow! Time to make the "Independent Party" an official Party name I think.

Time to start funding it and they will come because they are already THERE.

Time to spell out the 10 planks.

Time to Raise the money and Buy the TV DEBATE TIME for your candidates.

As the economy hits crises so will the two party crisis hit. It seems to me the "voters" have a Party without an organization.

I can hear the door knocking campaign now....

YOU: "Knock, Knock"

"Hello?"

YOU: "Hi, is this Mrs. Johnson? (Mrs Very Frustrated?)"

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Yes, what is this about?"

YOU: "Our records show that you are not registered as Democrat or a Republican, is that right?"

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Oh yes, we registered as Independents".

YOU: "Great. I am glad we've found you. Do you know we now are holding our own Televised Debates for our own Independent Candidates?"

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Really? Well its about time. I am tired of watching just two people on stage come election time".

YOU: "We could not agree more. We now have our own party, the Independent Party. We are of course neither democrats or republicans, neither left or right. Would you like to give $10 to join the Independent Party? By joining you can support Independent candidates who sing a different tune and have different answers to today's problems."

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Well what does the Independent Party stand for?"

YOU: "The Independent Party allows you to vote the person."

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Well what is the platform? What does the Independent Party stand for?"

YOU: "There is no platform. As you know, those who run as an independent have their own mind. Its our job to hear them out. Of course the person running as an Independent may be more conservative on one or two issues, while liberal something else, green on another issues, and even constitutionalists or libertarian on other issues. Again, there is no platform, we vote the person. The points is, you get to vote the person and what they stand for."

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Do you think a 3rd party has a chance against the democrats or republicans? You know Ross Perot tried it and only got I think 17% of the vote."

YOU: "Yes I do. Back in Ross Perot's day not many people thought of themselves as Independents. Do you know that 1/3 of Arizona's voters today are registered as Independents?"

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Wow, is that true?"

YOU: "Yes, take a look at this data straight from the voter registration rolls. You will see that democrats are just above 1/3 and republicans are about a 1/3. SO we Independents, we are a force today and we don't even know it!"

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Wow! Its good to know I am not the only one. I know some friends of mine that vote democrat or republican, but they are frustrated too."

YOU: "With your $10 donation to our private Independent Party, it will go to a National Television debate full -let me repeat that -FULL of Independent Candidates!!!!!".

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Wow, Ok, here's my ten dollars."

YOU: "I am sorry I cannot accept any money. I am just a volunteer and we don't take money. Because we are very open with our books, its all automated. We ask that you go online here at www.iparty.org and make your donation."

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Oh that is safe I guess".

YOU: "Yes it is. You can see the thermometer grow as donation poor in. And you can watch how and where your money gets spent."

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "What is the Independent Party spending its money on?"

YOU: "That is a good question. You can see that all on line. Best of all, all members can view the expenses and the income. Its all open book in real time."

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "What will I see when I get into the website?"

YOU: "You will see that there is just two expense categories that you can contribute too. One is for the TELEVISED NATIONAL DEBATES by the Independent Party to be aired 4 months before elections"

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "and the other is..?"

YOU: "and the other category is the Independent Candidate's campaign itself. You can pick one or both to contribute money. We try to keep it real simple."

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "But is it safe or will I be reading in the paper how someone ran off with the money?

YOU: "Good question. Its all on-line, open book, open software, and open to anyone who wishes to audit us."

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Who gets paid in running the day to day operations of the Independent Party?"

YOU: "Wow! another good question. The 5 board members who do take a salary also have their accounts all on-line and you can track their whereabouts and spending. We believe that is how government ought to be, OPEN for us to see, while we citizens stay private".

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Ok, it sounds interesting. One thing for sure is I know my husband and I do not want to be stuck with two lousy choices yet again. It seems as far back as 1971 all we get is two lousy choices. I would rather vote for the local university president to be president than some of the people that we have had. I would join today but my computer is giving me problems."

YOU: "Oh that is not a problem. We have a laptop and a secure line. Would you like to do it right here?"

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Yes. And I will contribute $100 not ten because really want to see the TV Debates, then choose my candidate after that."

YOU: "Is there anything else I can do for you?"

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "I don't know, do we have a logo? You know the Democrats are donkeys and the Republicans are Elephants...."

YOU: "I think many of us are copying and using this Wise Old Owl who stands on the tree of liberty, holds the Constitution in one hand and the Liberty torch in the other while draped in the American Flag. Would you like to see it? Its kind of cute. Sure beats that fat elephant and dumb donkey! Go here and copy it if you like. The owner wants us to copying it and use as we wish. http://politicalzoocartoon.com/ "

Mrs. Very Frustrated: "Wow! Thank You! I can't wait to break the two party system. Its like Coke & Pepsi, and its now time for some Tea!"

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

independent voters

Only independent voters can break the two-party monopoly. Independent voters are not a party and cannot be turned into a party. They are United States citizens registered to vote, which is what the Constitution created. Political parties are self-created societies which seek special status for themselves in government the way royalty and aristocracy have special status in European governments.
The United States began as a partyless government composed of independent voters, which is why they still exist in this government. A political party started by Thomas Jefferson took over the United States government in the election of 1800, which is why political parties exist in the United States. Since that time, party politicians have passed laws at state level to exclude independent voters from being candidates for office, such as the election laws that exist in Arizona, which require an independent candidate to obtain more than 5 times as many nomination petition signatures as a Republican or Democrat.
Until independent voters gain ballot access, they probably cannot elect a President because they do not have any people in lower offices.
Where political parties have failed is in their attempt to stop independent voter registration. Their most recent attempt in Arizona was removal of the option to register independent from the Arizona voter registration form in 2005 with the following effect on independent voter registration:

2000-2002 107,715
2002-2004 165,771
2004-2006 26,384

The ultimate effect of this was to slow voter registration in the state to the point where political parties were losing voters, while independent voters continued to increase. There are now more independent voters than Democrats in the state. 100,000 more independent voters will put them past Republicans.
I wrote a book on this subject a few years ago which is available from Amazon books entitled A House Divided: Political Parties and Independence.

Perhaps A Party member can't understand

Most independents I know are independent of Party and would not be fooled by a name. They(we) reject party politics.

Being apolitical does not mean they are asleep or sheep.

Being independent and responsible and wanting to be left alone by government and politicians is a way of life.

Free includes debt-free!

Notice, that Mrs. Very Frustrated does not need to hear Ron Paul

Notice, that Mrs. Very Frustrated does not need to hear what the principles or platform or goals are.

Notice, that Mrs. Very Frustrated does not need to hear a political position, a point of view, NOTHING.

Notice, that Mrs. Very Frustrated does not need to support any candidate at this time, just support the goal of Nationalized TV Debates. From there she can pick the independent candidate of her choice.

Notice, that Mrs. Very Frustrated has already DECIDED against the Dems and Republicans.

Someone like Ron Paul could then "Run as an INDEPENDENT" knowing that the Nationalized TV Debates will be aired on prime-time - in competition to the two other parties little party.

Of course so could Gary Johnson, Jesse Ventura, Ralph Nader, etc.

Notice, that Mrs. Very Frustrated and many like her are a BIG MARKET, a BIG POOL of MONEY to tap into, if we can tap into it CORRECTLY, OPEN & HONESTLY.

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

If I may play devil's

If I may play devil's advocate for a moment. Glenn Beck has a fairly big amount of support. Why don't we buy it from him? What would it take, a million, two million? We all know he's for sale, let's buy him and use him. Just get him talking about Ron Paul and what a fantastic president he'd make.

Now we are thinking outside the box!

Smile

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

HART/McINTURFF scientific poll of 1000 people

HART/McINTURFF Study #101061--page 1
September 2010 NBC News/Wall Street Journal Survey
Interviews: 1000 adults, including 200 reached by cell phone

The poll does NOT ask about RON PAUL. However, If anything is to be gleaned from the poll, it is that the ELECTORATE is for the 1st time VERY OPEN to a 3rd party Independent Run. NEVER has a 3rd Party been more appealing to the electorate. Polls like this have found since the days of John Anderson's run, Ross Perot's run, and Pat Buchanan's run, that a 3rd party run only appealed to 8-9% of the electorate. Most felt it "hurt the two party system". Well today, most would like to do exactly that, "hurt the two party system". The mood is now at 25% are supportive of ANY 3rd Party Independent Run!

Relevant Poll question:

"If the choice in your district had the following, would you be more likely to vote for a -- (ROTATE:)
Republican candidate for Congress, a Democratic candidate for Congress -- or an independent or third party candidate for Congress?

Republican candidate .............. 31 32 31
Democratic candidate ...............36 34 34
Independent/3rd party candidate.... 25 25 25
Not sure ............................. 8 9 10

Go here to see the poll:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/_...

The question for you and me in the R3VOLution is this... "Will We Pre- $$$ money Bomb an INDEPENDENT PARTY Platform, and get Politicians begging to champion it?" Where do we want to be most effective in putting in our precious energies and money? Inside the GOP, most of which are still drinking the pro-war koolaid? Well, we have a 25% head start for the very first time in America with an Independent run.

In peace and liberty ,
Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and

statistics.

Notice you are referencing a poll relevant ONLY to congressional elections, NOT the presidency.

Also, getting a general sentiment says nothing. Because when ACTUAL candidates have filed and qualified and are on the ballot, and the media campaigns start, all of a sudden that 25% drops to nill.

Case in point - I'm talking politics with the family last night. They want to know why the LP doesn't have a candidate for a certain statewide office today. (we are having an election today for various state and local offices) My reply, is that we don't have anyone with enough money to break the media barrier.

They reply that we don't have the money, because we don't have a candidate with charisma, that's why people don't donate to the LP.

My reply is that sorry, the money HAS to come first. No one will even notice an unknown candidate with charisma if he doesn't have the money to be taken more than seriously by the media, or to buy his way around them.

They tried to use Perot as an example of talking directly to the people, with charisma as to why he got as far as he did.

I reminded them, Perot was a billionaire that spent a small fortune buying air-time before the MSM knew what hit them. But that can only be tried once. After that, they are on to you, and they will do whatever they can to lock you out.

The sad truth is, in most cases, there are no 3rd party candidates rich enough and connected enough to be taken seriously enough to have a shot at the voters even knowing they exist. And any that are rich or connected enough, would be untrustworthy to hold office.

Voters are generally lazy. They won't seek out 3rd party candidates, and are waiting for the perfect one to plop in their lap. I would like to see a followup statistic on those who answered 3rd party as to how they voted in their Congressional races this year both if, and if they did not have options other than Ds or Rs. My bet, is the 3rd party candidates might get a combined 1-5% tops.

Good points all samadamscw... my reply below

Yes, put a Check in that box... Yes, Private money comes first into the private Party. Then comes the Politician, then comes the TV to suck up those advertising monies.

Check, there are currently two privately funded private parties, the democrat and the republican parties.

Check, these two are CENTRALLY FUNDED from the top down FIRST, then donations come in from the 10% paying hard core koolaid drinkers inside that party, and the other 20% freeloads and votes reliably.

Check, there is NOTHING stopping us from funding our Independent Party in a DECENTRALIZED fashion, from the Bottom up. ($100 Money Bombs are very powerful tools we have).

Check, once a $20,000,000 INDEPENDENT PARTY is funded, just like the above, candidates appear, then comes TV.

Check, Ballot access is the last of our concerns. Its been done before by the libertarians, the Greens, and Ross Perot. It can be done. But we do not want it done too soon. For that is where all sorts of "laws" come into play.

Check, if ballot access is the last of our concerns right now, what is the first concern? STRUCTURE. Getting our DECENTRALIZED STRUCTURE DOWN and IN PLACE. For there lies our power and our strength and will also make us hard to deal with. The things we did FOR the Ron Paul Campaign could not have been done INSIDE the Ron Paul Campaign. Indeed, the campaign was STRONG because of our decentralized nature. Harnessing that Decentralized nature to RAISE FUNDs for an INDEPENDENT PARTY, unregistered at that, makes us a "wild card". An "unregulated outside the boundaries" wild card. I like that. So, getting our decentralized money raising and handling structure down, is JOB ONE.

Can it be done? You tell me. The question is, is the R3VOLution going to play along INSIDE the 2-party "system" and get burned again? Or is it going to take its own fate into its own hands and produce its OWN MONEY and MAKE ITS OWN TELEVISED PRIME-TIME DEBATES?

You tell me what inspires you and I will tell you what will work.

In peace and liberty,
Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Intriguing, but personally, I'm just not feeling it.

Sorry. I've been burnt too many times I guess.

Also dealing with the realities on the ground on the state level of a 3rd party, I see first hand the pitfalls and problems. I see what we are up against. And I just don't see a way around or through it.

I pray you are right.

The only thing sweeter than that is if I was also wrong.

NO CHANCE! --- NO HOW! --- NOW WAY!

been there (1988) - done that --- YOU CANNOT WIN 3RD PARTY w/ the MSM in 2012 - FACT!

I was there in 1988....and 2010 voters are NOT like 1988 voters!

The time has come...

Get on board my friend...

Its going to be a wild ride...

In peace & liberty,
Treg

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

Nothing has changed. Nothing is new under the sun.

You will see.

Voters want another option, but they aren't willing to work to make it happen.

They won't donate to that 3rd option.

They won't volunteer to help that 3rd option.

They won't tell their friends about that 3rd option.

And unless that 3rd option spends millions and is treated right by the media, they will ignore the 3rd option they said they were ready for.

Voter really do listen to what the MSM tells them, else the MSM wouldn't still be bothering and would have moved on to another strategy.

Ron Paul would not be paid any heed if he were not in office.

And he would not be in office, if he weren't a Republican.

Sad, but facts are facts.

If you aren't in one of either the Democrat or Republican parties, or you don't "caucus" with one of them, you DO NOT EXIST in the media which means unless you own or can buy media time, YOU DO NOT EXIST to the voters.

Change is the law of the Universe... Everything is New under the

Son.

You will see...

Yes, please BUY this wonderful libertarian BOOK! We all must know the History of Freedom! Buy it today!

"The System of Liberty: Themes in the History of Classical Liberalism" ...by author George Smith --
Buy it Here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/05211820

If he fails as the Rep Nominee

He should do it. I think he could win if it were and out and out Neo Con vs Obama vs Paul.

There are state laws in many cases that will not allow that.

Please people, search this site on topics like this, we've already covered this ad nausea.

True story. It's millions of

True story. It's millions of dollars just to get someone as a valid write-in candidate in all 50 states.