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Goldmoney.com vs Silversaver.com vs physical metals

I've been investing in physical gold and silver coins on and off over the past 2 years, but I recently became aware of other intriguing options that seem to streamline the buying, storing, and selling process (insurance too). Specifically, I'm referring to goldmoney.com and silversaver.com. Most of the threads I've seen on gold and silver recommend physical possession, but I was wondering if anyone has had experience with either of these alternatives. If so, what are your reasons for choosing that alternative to physical possession? Of the two, which one makes the most sense for a light investor who makes purchases ranging from a couple hundred to a couple thousand dollars at at time?

At this point I'm primarily interested in silver, and I'm investing for the long haul, but I want to maximize my investment and have a solid plan for selling my metals when the time is right. For those who own physical metals, what is your plan for selling? Which online dealers have the best selling premiums, or is it better to go to a local coin shop?

As you can tell, I haven't quite figured out my game plan and would appreciate any advice from those of you who are more experienced in this area. Thanks in advance!



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Some More Helpfull Info From The Goldmoney Site.

Merchants Can Accept Goldmoney For Payments:

http://goldmoney.com/merchant.html

Reasonable fee structure
Transaction fees in GoldMoney are low. The maximum is 1/10th of a goldgram (about US$4.38). The minimum is 1/100th of a goldgram, or about 43 US cents. And the buyer, not the merchant, pays this fee.

Quick, easy setup
Merchant sign up is fast and easy. Just open your free account and provide the information requested in our Customer Acceptance Policy. In contrast to credit cards, no special approvals are needed.

Once your Customer Acceptance Policy details have been received and approved, contact us to test the merchant interface on your account. After your system is integrated with GoldMoney, we will make the interface live so you can begin accepting goldgram payments.

Accept GoldGrams at your website now!
Learn how to integrate GoldMoney into your website or e-commerce system.

And This:

Goldmoney Referral Program:

Benefits of the GoldMoney Referral Programme

* When you refer a customer to us via your website and they make a purchase, you get a 25% share of our sales margin
* You continue to receive referral fees for any subsequent purchases of the customer you referred for a period of 2 years from the date they signed up for their Holding.

Here is my active holding number:
50-08-53-U

beesting

Saved Under Glass. I case of disaster, glass will break.

Gold is elemental, malleable, and will not break.

To the extent your trust is intact, you hold gold.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Gold and silver

I have bought gold and silver from Gainesvillecoins.com. I am very happy with their prices, service and delivery time. Do your own research and compare to others, don't take my word for it.

RickStone

Who is selling?

LOL. Nice try.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
"I know major allies who fund them" Gen. Dempsey referring to ISIS

GoodSamaritan's picture

Try OneOverSpot.com

SilverStockReport.com recently reported about a new auction site for gold and silver. Listings are free and the fee is only 1% if an auction ends with a winner.

You can read about it at:

http://silverstockreport.com/2010/one-over-spot.html

They're still new so they don't have a lot of different items yet but maybe you'll find a good deal on what you're looking for or you can save on fees if you have something to sell.

Ron Paul - Honorary Founding Father

I Have A Goldmoney Holding Account,,,

,,,,And have been adding to it for over 9 years.

http://goldmoney.com/

First I see there are some misconceptions written below that should be corrected.

1. The Goldmoney company is currently holding about 1.29 Billion with a "B", in precious metals "For" account holders.
They have no limit on the amount of precious metals that a holder can "Own", therefore I would consider them a large company by the asset amount of precious metals in their system.

2. Metal can be converted in or out of the company, or changed into the paper money of your choice at any time.

3. Full entry into Goldmoney is dependent on a type of background check, mainly to keep out scammers.

4. Precious metal "Ownership" can be exchanged among account holders in a "Secure" fashion, in a matter of minutes,very cheaply.

5. Goldmoney has several legal patents that allow them to operate internationally, if desired.

6. I have corresponded with the founder James Turk and his son Jeff Turk by e-mail, and all the correspondence has given me more trust and faith in their system.

7. I consider it a good place to store insured precious metals, in London, Switzerland, or Hong Kong, in some of the worlds safest and most secure storage facility's in the world.

8. In my opinion, it is not for the small players, simply because international wire fees are too expensive from banks to and from Goldmoney,,,However, exchanges of Gold grams, Silver grams, and Platinum grams between account holders are very reasonable, anywhere in the world.

9. Security is excellent in my opinion, because no one can snoop into your holding if they don't know your 12 digit or more pass phrase.

10. Click here for a full list of details:

http://goldmoney.com/sitemap.html

Good luck, and I'd be more than happy to answer questions, when I have time.

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Goldmoney, other than an account holder.

P.S. I know nothing about Silversaver.com.

beesting

Thanks for those clarifications.

As I recall, GoldMoney did have the lowest transaction fees of any institution I've ever seen. (probably because it is all computerized and really isn't all that expensive in the first place)

The insurance fees are very reasonable as well.

Personally, I still prefer to hold the stuff in my hand though. And, I'm a small fry. So it doesn't suit my level of trading. But if I did have a sizable portfolio, and wanted to trade daily or more, and I wasn't worried about access in a collapse, yeah, this is the system I'd use. Hands down.

BULLION Storage for Bigger Purchases of Bullion

I work for a Bullion dealer in Canada. We have U.S. Citizen calling us daily now. We offer 1000 0z bars silver, 32 oz gold, 100 oz gold, 400 oz gold, 50 oz platinum. All gold is held in fully allocated, insured, segregated and unencumbered form. It is held in TORONTO. Outside the U.S. this is very attractive to serious wealth preservers. All bullion is held in an LBMA vault. Instant liquidity, and assured purity. You receive a bullion deed with the weight, purity, serial number, refiner of the bar you own. You can take delivery at any time. If anyone is interested I can give you information to contact me. Obviously there are storage fees...but for bigger bars, insurance security and liquidity is valuable.

Buy your metals at goldmoney or silvermoney and then...

...take delivery!

Actually, buy where ever you can find the best deal on the actual metal ;-)

Good Advice.

Bump.

beesting

Here's what I've come up with so far

#1 Buy physical.
#2 Don't buy paper (paper promising physical is still just paper)
#3 If you don't actually possess the metal, you bought paper.
#4 One can not "invest" in inanimate objects.

So with those four in mind, I'll address your questions.

If you want to invest in the metals sector and benefit off the supply/demand fundamentals of that market, then the place to look to is either producers or fabricators - mining companies or mints.

There is also the more general investment in real estate with the hopes of the land being utilized for fabrication or as a mining operation.

(* note, "real estate" is not "land." Thus you can BUY land, but you can INVEST in real estate. Estate is an "interest" in land. The "real" part means you are dealing with physical land. There are other types of estate.)

What you are suggesting from what you have written here, and what most people talk about when speaking of this same subject is not "investing" it is speculating - gambling. I know some people will find every excuse to say otherwise, but really that is what it boils down to. Card counters are simply speculators of statistics of inanimate objects that produce nothing. Trading metals like gold and silver trying to hit statistical highs and lows is no different.

Now that is out of the way, and hopefully clear, if you want to maximize your gambling take on the metals:

Goldmoney.com seems fairly legit, but they are a small market. This means, there are a handful of players that control it - thus it is or can be a very manipulated market. (no different from the Comex in my opinion) The only advantage to this over Comex is the entry price. This is likely simply an online version of a system similar to Monex, except you can't buy on margin with Goldmoney.com (that's a good thing)

*note converting to physical with these guys is a pain in the butt and will earn you a big haircut on your holdings.

I know nothing about Silversaver.com. I did do a trial with Goldmoney.com. But I didn't care for it and it seemed much too rigged for my blood.

Concerning selling of physical, I presume you already have a good source for buying.

I've looked at several for both sides of the trade, and the three that stick out the most for fair spread and incidental charges are:

ColoradoGold.com - spreads are tight, but minimum sell and buy are high, 1% selling charge if you didn't buy from them.

NWTMintBullion.com - spreads tight, high minimum buy but low sell (can sell even only 1 coin in most instances), can buy less at higher premium like a coin shop, FREE SHIPPING, SLOW DELIVERY - also, they are CREDIT CARD REQUIRED. You can pay by check or wire transfer, but you MUST have a CC to secure the buy or sell order

APMEX.com - guaranteed shipping but not cheap, decent spreads, the MOST product available, low minimums on many products

Local coin dealers are all different though since they generally operate on smaller volumes their spreads are MUCH higher. So buying from them will be more expensive, and selling to them will not fetch as much. However, a good relationship and regular business on both sides of the trade will tend to "get" you tighter spreads and better deals as they get to know you. They would also be indispensable to be on their good side in a chaos situation.

As for timing, there are no hard and fast rules. That is why this is gambling/speculation. You can't control anything. Nothing is being produced. You are at the mercy of the whims and fears of everyone else, not you or anyone else's perseverance, know how and hard work.

General rules of thumb:

Buy on Monday sell on Friday. Markets are generally lowest on Monday, unless mid week info causes a correction. Prices usually highest going into the weekend.

Buy in the Summer, sell in Late Fall/Early Spring. The lows for any market are generally in the summer. Metals are usually sideways during this period so it is a good safe buying opportunity.

They begin trending up in mid to late August then turn sideways with corrections from late September till sometimes early November. By then they trend up again till early January on holiday demand, then plateau, maybe a few corrections to test their support, and then upwards again through early February or even till late May.

DANGER - the spring highs were usually in April or May. In 2008 we hit $21 in FEBRUARY and then dropped to the mid-low teens then back up to high teens in May, then down below $10 in the late summer. This followed the general trend but broke the boundaries of a high as early as February.

Buying/Selling rules:

You CANNOT hit the high or the low. Do not try. You will go broke or commit suicide. (for real)

People who do have done this for decades and they got close enough to get lucky. They cannot easily reproduce that feat, and they know it.

How to cope otherwise:

Cost average for buying - buy the same quantity (not value) at regular intervals. Over the entire period, you will have paid the average price for that period. Say buy five ounces a week - no matter the price, or buy only on the 15th of the month the same amount of ounces each month, no matter the price.

Keep track of your buying prices and keep the average. If spot stays above your average for 30 days, STOP buying. You are now in a selling opportunity.

Cost average for selling - sell NO MORE than 25% at one time. Usually 5% is the max you would want to sell in any one trade. You sell on the way up, and stop selling as soon as a sufficient correction hits. See where you are in the market and the calendar. Plan to spread your 25% out over the projected selling opportunity period. Divide up your 25% over the intervals you want to sell (say once a week) then sell only that percentage (say 5% for 5 weeks etc.) for each week LIKE CLOCKWORK. Do not hold back waiting for higher prices. The signal to stop selling is next...

Keep track of your selling prices and keep the average selling price. If a correction hits below that average STOP selling. You are now in a potential BUY opportunity. This may not last long. As long as Spot is below your selling average and does not sit above your buying average for 30 days, you are in a buy opportunity.

Do not concern yourself with which ounces were bought or sold at what price. Work on the averages only. (you will drive yourself nuts otherwise)

Also, when looking at potential take - use the bid price.
When looking at what it will cost you - use the ask.

Most online stores give an actual bid/ask with their premiums already built in. NWTMint has the LOWEST premiums I could find on anyone. But since they don't always have what you are buying in stock if it is in large quantities, it may take weeks or months to ship to you, though it is free in the lower 48.

I'd use them for longer term trading strategies or better yet, simple accumulation, since the turn around is so long.

Remember - you CANNOT hit the high or low outside of sheer luck. Do not beat yourself up over it.

The metals are very VOLATILE day to day and minute to minute. Do not watch them that closely if you can't handle the pressure. Focus on the bigger picture. Watch the daily spot only if you are selling, and watch the 30 DMA and 200 DMA if you are buying.

You can also get more technical and tighter with your changes from buying and selling, but in most cases you should be regularly doing one or the other. You will see your pool shrink fast once you get cold feet and stop doing anything for a long period of time.

Gold & Silver Options Expiry + Futures Last Trading days

Sell before the price drop & buy after the drop. Whatever the commodity, see the following Comex & Nymex table. These & other drop events are documented on our DailyPaul (eg: Monopoly Boyz den meeting, key financial vote in congress, non-farm unemployment number, etc.)

I do not play the Monopoly Options nor Futures. No sir. I don't believe them at all. Legal fiction.

This is passed on as historical reference;I do not know tomorrow. I

Buy metals after options expire. Nov, 2010 Comex Gold & Silver expiry = 11/23. Comex Gold & Silver Last Future Trading day 11/28.

Comex And Nymex 2010 Metals Trading Calendar

Being a precious metals trader, you have to be alert on certain trading days within a month – especially options expiry and futures last trading day.
http://agaupm.com/comex-and-nymex-2010-metals-trading-calendar/
Nov. 23 Comex December gold options expiry
Nov. 23 Comex December silver options expiry
Nov. 23 Comex December copper options expiry
Nov. 26 Comex December E-mini silver futures last trading day
Nov. 26 Comex December miNY gold futures last trading day
Nov. 26 Comex November copper futures last trading day
Nov. 26 Comex December E-mini copper futures last trading day
Nov. 26 Comex December miNY silver futures last trading day
Nov. 26 Nymex December Asian gold futures last trading day
Nov. 26 Nymex December Asian platinum futures last trading day
Nov. 26 Nymex December Asian palladium futures last trading day
Nov. 30 Comex December gold futures first notice day
Nov. 30 Comex December silver futures first notice day
Nov. 30 Comex December copper futures first notice day
Nov. 30 Nymex December palladium futures first notice day
Dec. 27 Comex January 2011 copper options expiry
Dec. 29 Comex December gold futures last trading day
Dec. 29 Comex December silver futures last trading day
Dec. 29 Comex December copper futures last trading day
Dec. 29 Comex January 2011 E-mini copper futures last trading day
Dec. 29 Comex January 2011 E-mini silver futures last trading day
Dec. 29 Nymex December palladium futures last trading day
Dec. 31 Comex January 2011 silver futures first notice day
Dec. 31 Comex January 2011 copper futures first notice day
Dec. 31 Nymex January 2011 platinum futures first notice day
Exchange Key:
Nymex = New York Mercantile Exchange
Comex = Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

Thank you for taking the time

Thank you for taking the time to write such a thorough response!

Goldmoney seems to be legit

and is recommended by those that consider ETF's etc. to be nonsense. You actually own PHYSICAL GOLD / SILVER at Goldmoney, not "bets" or "shares". Their vaults are audited regularly to insure that the physical metals are there, and you can chose vaults in Switzerland if you wish.

They don't send you the physical metal, but instead they send funds to your bank when requested based on the price of the metal that day. Funds can be in dollars, euro's or swissfrancs, depending on your preference and your bank.

Basically this is not "paper" gold / silver, but actually the physical metal, stored for you for later use.

That's about all I know about them.

Thomas Jefferson: “Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever."

Viva La Revolucion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmaTNf4YhEs

You probably don't want to take advice from me

as I am a rookie.

I can say that your headline might as well be,
"Toilet paper vs newspaper vs physical"

The point is that it is paper, and is only as good as the people saying it is worth something.

I have a friend who is invested in PM's with Edward Jones Investment firm. It is ALL on paper.

If TSHTF is he going to be able to ask Edward Jones to honor their agreement, and give him his physical?

It is the same with the bank.

So many people think that their money is just sitting there in a vault, waiting for them to come and pick up at any moment.

The only problem I see with physical, is transportation and storage. If you can figure out those two, wouldn't you rather have that in your hand, than a piece of paper?

Keep in mind this is rookie advice. It is intended for entertainment purposes only. Not valid with any other offers. Must be present to win. Do not take more than three in a four hour period. Some restrictions apply. Some assembly required. See manufacturer for details.

Batteries not included:

:-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my country
I am appalled by my government

Thank you for summing up so thoughtfully.

To: Tramp
cc: Mr Jefferson

Batteries were usually not included up through about 1963. Just like you & your friends trying to make end meet, folks have to rely on energy among themselves. I am glad those, beside tramps like us, are returning to our level of sanity.

Glad to see you are still getting along. My regards to you & your friends.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul