2 votes

Ron Paul 2012??? Diebold VS Paper Ballots

Diebold VS Paper Ballots (my first post on DP resurrected)

(original post)

Submitted by Thomas on Wed, 06/13/2007 - 11:28
in Daily Paul Liberty Forum

Forgive me if this topic has been covered but here it is anyway.

There must be away to "Fast Track Emergency Legislation" so we are able to cast our votes with old style paper ballot and not the electronic voting machines (even the ones that give you a paper receipt) which have been proven to be tampered with easily.

This early in the game I can see the possibility of Mr Paul winning the election and helping to restore this once great nation to it's past glory and freedoms we once had.

Maybe a Supreme Court Emergency Injunction banning the machines?

Anyone have an answer to this?

All our hard work will be for naught if this is not done.

Okay I went to: http://www.verifiedvoting.org/

The problem with this is thus; You vote for candidate A. You get a paper receipt from the machine that says you voted for candidate A
But what happens is the machine tallys the vote for candidate B
Then Faux news and all the other mainstream says candidate B won the election And most of the uneducated Americans believe them . I have never used the electronic machines myself but would make the assumption that the paper receipt that you get is just like a cash register receipt you get from circuit city or wherever that is very fragile and the print on it will completely disappear with exposure to sunlight in a short time. I WANT THE HEAVY NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DESTROY PAPER BALLOTS WITH THE STANDARD ARROW TO POINT TO CANDIDATE AND HANDLE TO PUNCH OUT THE DARN CHAD Then if there is a recount or anything is questionably about the election there will be durable paper to count. AND I WANT 6th grade math wizards to do the recount if there is to be one........Kids would do a better job than the last recount fiasco. Thomas

(edit:this needs to be rectified before we get too far into 2011 especially if Ron Runs)

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I see

someone bumped this back to the forefront...
You know how I feel about this, Thomas...
Bump for a worthy topic...

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond

We can't stop trying-and I hate to sound negative...but

They'll never reform the electronic vote count system. It'll always be "oopsie- too late for this election, maybe next time". Its a simple enough fix to go back to paper, but this country has gotten so rotten from the inside out that there'll never ever be a truly fair election as long as the same cast of characters have their elbow on the pulse.

I Disagree With You Jinc

I think we can bring this to the forefront of the national consciousness if we work together on it within a few short months.We are the media now with the internet...lets use it to our advantage.

I was quite involved with the efforts of blackboxvoting

and by the end of the '08 election I was so disgusted at the lack of interest the mainstream media had in light of the blatant fraud that was uncovered that I all but gave up hope. Like I said- I wont give up- but I have no faith there will be any change. These people get away with murder in broad daylight. A fool thinks he can reach the stars, but the wise man never stops trying. So...we press on.


Yeah, I wish more people would pay attention to this issue because anybody that thinks we have a chance at winning the presidency or even a presidential nomination without serious election reform is in for another heartbreaking disappointment in 2012. It doesn't matter how much money we raise or how many signs we wave or how well the campaign is run or how many debates R.P. gets invited to or how well R.P. does in those debates...THE PEOPLE WHO CAST THE VOTES DECIDE NOTHING, AND THE PEOPLE WHO COUNT THE VOTES DECIDE EVERYTHING.

As far as solutions, I don't see the current congress passing any laws to ban electronic vote rigging, nor do I see the courts putting a stop to the fraud, so it looks pretty bleak.

However, I still would like to see Ron Paul, or at least Rand Paul, run, but I'm afraid the best we can hope for right now is to educate more people and spread our message until our numbers are large enough that we cannot be stopped anymore. Unfortunately, we are still a long ways from that point, but getting closer every day, so it is not completely hopeless.

My vote in 2010 was not tallied

I used one of those AccuVote digital optical ballot readers (made by ES&S i think).

So you fill out ovals with a special pen on your ballot, and then feed them into the machine. The machine has an electronic count of the number of ballots processed.

I made note of the number shown, and then fed my ballot through. THE NUMBER DID NOT CHANGE! I complained to the officials working there, and someone allowed me to fill out an absentee ballot that would only be counted if, at the end of the day, they thought that there was a mismatch in the count and the number of ballots (provided someone actually checked that).

I honestly don't have any idea if my vote was ever counted in 2010, but I doubt it.

The reason that they make Voting Machines so very different from ATM machines (where you get proof of your transaction), is because they want them to be tamperable by the people at the top (operatives, CIA, etc.) so that Elections can be controlled.

Years have gone by since the 2000 fiasco, and yet the E-Voting machines are less secure than they've ever been.

In 2004, it was the centralized servers where the Statewide tallies are brought together where the biggest corruption took place. All the Exit Polls originally showed John Kerry winning. Bush smugly announced on TV that he was gonna win. Then the hard counts were held up, and then skewed towards Bush. CNN later revised its own Exit Polls because they didn't want to draw attention to the great disparity. John Kerry actually won the Election in 2004.

Stated differently, George W. Bush never actually won an Election for President.

That Stinks LibertyBaby What I Want To See Also...

is not only hand counted paper ballots in full view of the public like it used to be but also the elimination of electronic state tallying.

Each county should tabulate and then print the results with all other state county results so we know what the exact count is for the entire state...it's all simple math and should be done by hand.


Comments? Ideas? Plans? Protests? 2012 will be here sooner than you think,do you want to campaign for Ron and invest your time and money only to get ripped off but could have done something about it and didn't?

Vote Receipts

Electronic voting machines wouldn't be so bad if we could clarify our votes visually, then print a receipt at the moment of voting. Or maybe print the receipt, then match it to the screen visually, then submit the vote.

The machine might even save a copy of each receipt on a roll so that any tampering could be traced to the moment it occurred if the roll showed damage or there were any irregularities.

At least that way we'd be able to count them ourselves outside the system (and its minions) that rigs the machines, and we'd have a continuous trail to follow if necessary.

We get receipts for most electronic transactions and voting shouldn't be any different.

(I find it unlikely that Rick Perry got the 51% of the vote he needed to avoid a runoff down in Texas even though the machines said he did...)

Votes are supposed to be

Votes are supposed to be counted within view of the public. This is mandated, and is not being done.

Bottom line: Anything involving a computer can be tampered with.

It involves humans and is fallible.

One should never trust a computer counter. Trust, but verify.

SimpleSam I Think We Are Going To Have To Get One Of The New

members just elected to write the bill mandating everything that the WTP Federal Lawsuit to Ban All Electronic Voting is asking for and push it until it goes through lets see who's who. Before the election and valid for 2012.


with you on this on!!!

O.P.O.G.G. - Fighting the attempted devolution of the rEVOLution
Ron Paul 2012...and beyond

I believe Electronic Voting should be made illegal....

Or at least never used in elections.

The whole smoke screen is far too open to not only widespread abuse, theft and crime....but also can be manipulated wirelessly to elect bad representatives.