2 votes

So just how does one live WITHOUT Social Security?

Originally published 2011-01-06 20:02:
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With all the energy now aimed at cutting Social Security (and not the Trillion Dollar Wars) by both political Parties (including Obama's own deficit commission), just how then is one supposed to live -- without Social Security?

Many jobs and occupations become unsustainable as you become older and older. People's physicial abilities and stamina simply diminish (through no fault of their own), and also the underlying technologies and skills required change and transform with time so rapidly that even well educated people can become de-facto obsolete in their jobs, and no longer marketable. And the stress level and exhaustion level for many jobs just aren't well suited for people that are in their 60s. Finally, its just a fact that health issues will make older people more frail, more vulnerable, and less effective than younger people. While there are some occupations that can be sustained into old age (successful book author, owning a successful business that's mostly run by others, etc.), many, many professions and occupations cannot be sustained. People simply need to retire, and they cannot just work until "they've fallen and can't get up" (and then how do the bills get paid?). Retirement is a necessity for most.

So to retire at the age of 65, you would need to create a yearly revenue stream for yourself that would support all of your expenses, and could last for up to 35 years.

So if you need $40,000-per-year to pay for all your housing/taxes/health-care/food/utilities/automobile/phone/internet/insurances/and other miscellaneous expenses, then this means one of two things:

1) You have savings of at least: $1,400,000.00 (40,000 * 35 years), and therefore can draw down $40,000 each and every year - until the point where you will eventually be totally broke then at age 100. Of course, if you live up to 100, or you have a major surgery or hospital procedure that Medicare won't cover, or you have some other unforseen expenses, then you're screwed anyway -- even with 1.5 million.

2) Your savings (however much that is) can be put into some investment that will predictably and safely generate back $40,000 a year, and also not lose its principal value. With interest rates at 0%-1% I don't know what the hell that would be -- such an investment simply does not exist.


So please tell me, how the heck do you retire without Social Security? This is just impossible for 95% of the population.

In today's times with the cost of living so damn high, people living from paycheck-to-paycheck, and Employers not giving raises, how does anyone possibly save up a whopping 1.5 Million dollars?

Most people can't even afford to buy one house (and those that do are borrowing virtually all the money).

And where oh where can you ever put your money and invest it in something -- such that it is not put at any risk, and can also generate back a steady $40K or so for paying all the bills over the course of the year?

There is no such investment. It doesn't exist.

So, for people who are not wealthy, what do you do without Social Security.

The vast majority of the people, are going to need it. But if there is some secret alternative investment strategy that I haven't heard about that will magically produce the scenarios of 1 or 2 (above) -- I'd sure like to know about it.

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Double post.


Respect your father and your mother,
so that your days are prolonged upon
the soil which YaHUaH your Elohim is
giving you. ~Exodus 20:12


Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Since it's a Ponzi scheme

that isn't going to be there any more, we're all going to see how it is without it.

And, since the whole world lived for thousands of years without it, before communists existed, and there are billions of people living without it even today, I think it's no problem to get rid of it.

Social Security was an evil concept from the beginning. Just like pretty much everything that FDR ever did.

and so it goes.

When you have no other choice, you will prepare or Parrish. You will take responsibility for yourself. When that is done all things change. Family, Friends, Churches, your own ability steps in to support life.
When Governments do this, you are seeing the results right in front of your face. It is a scheme of FORCE because that is what Governments are. This creates a world of entitlement and no one should live at the expense of another involuntarily.(Privileges extended soon become Rights Demanded!) The key is to focus on Abundance and Love rather than Lack and Fear as most of us do now. When we do this all things will start to return to balance like nature intended and a THRIVING people will begin anew.

Thrive, What in the World is it going to take?
Find out here!

Check your facts

Most people are not incapacitated at 65. Indeed, most are fully capable of supporting themselves or substantially supporting themselves. This silly idea that we must reach 65 and then go on vacation for the next 20-30 years is part of the problem.

The company I just left is run by a 70 year old. The CFO is 72. The head of a successful division is 76. All of them play golf, handball. One of them smokes (I worry a little). My mother is 87, and until 10 months ago she was travelling around the county, picking up people's insurance paperwork and helping them fill it out and file it (then the medical community got hold of her and we damned near lost her). The company I work for now has an octogenarian at the helm. My best salesman in a previous job was 80 years old, showed up for work every day, made good money, and only quit when he learned he had cancer and died shortly after. Same story with a great salesman I worked with back in the 70's.

I could go on.

Before Social Security, there was no "retirement" age. You worked until you couldn't. By then, however, you probably owned your own home, paid very little in taxes (no income taxes!), and lived very cheaply. Families helped, and so did associations. The elderly were not a burden, they were an asset.

This is not to say that there aren't hardship cases at 65, or 60, or 55, or 50... But when you build an entire system around the assumption that we are incapable of supporting ourselves at some predetermined age, you end up with a lot of people not working by choice, not by necessity.

good points made--

yes, there are exceptions, but you are correct that the system should not have implied that everyone was the same. That 'darned' old collectivism rearing its ugly head again--

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

and just how do you expect the young to keep funding it

while you keep voting for the war? they work for your monthly check then they have to send themselves to oversea and war at the same time? seniors constitute the biggest voting block. if you don't vote to cut the war, then social security will be cut. rest assured. blame your friends. sorry, but this democratic system unrestrained by the constitution means you will be forced into collectivism, because that's what you and your lot are voting for. last time i checked, senior support for rp is around 5%. if you keep voting for the war and continue to vote for your own ss, then ss has to be cut. you are already forced into a collectivist system, like it or not. again, blame your senior friends.

Whoa! this is directly

Whoa! this is directly OPPOSITE to what Ron Paul has said. You actually sound like Obama. First off the existing seniors are not the economic enemy. They've already paid their dues with funding SS and serving in wars. I don't know where you got your 5% figure representing senior support for Ron Paul but I hope they don't succumb to the scare tactics Obama is threatening them with. Ron Paul has mentioned several times that the social services in place will be transitioned or grandfathered to those who already in the program. His option offered to the young people is realistic. No Ron Paul supporters are voting for war. Quite the opposite. You sound quite panicked. Blaming seniors for American economic woes is just fear mongering with wrongful attack .

the money is gone

opposite to what ron paul said? paul says cut the wars, then we will have money for ss. opposite? does he say keep the wars, AND we will have money for both? no. opposite? no.

and the money is gone. preach about them having paid in to someone that cares. preach about them then voting away their own money as well, and then have a laugh at it. the people that voted away their money are themselves and their parents. well their parents are dead. i'm afraid they can't point fingers at the next generation.

the.money.is.gone pls read the whole post and memorize this line at least a few dozen times

Besides moaning and wailing

Besides moaning and wailing about all the rescuing you need what are you prepared to do about it?

If we knew it was not going

If we knew it was not going to be there, and the money was not taken out, it would have been different. Since I am losing my business, home, and have NO family, I just (finally) put in for it, which u can do at 62 but I wasn't going to, and now am mad I waited awhile, because I only get $750. a month which of course no one could live on, but it is better than waiting and getting nothing for a few more years. I am sure I could do some substitute teaching a few days a month and some baby-sitting or something to make some more money but the thing IS, I have NO idea where to go! I do not like this town in Arkansas. I have lost all my money here, never made any friends, and people broke in and stole all my coin collection and jewelry that was going to help fund my old age. So now I have to probably sell all my furniture (things I loved, but oh well, because I will probably never live in a big enough house to need a dining room set, et.al. again), give my dog away, figure out some way to tow around my food reserves and a few other things, and get in my car and go somewhere, leaving all bills behind to ruin my excellent credit score. But where to go? I am in a total funk with this economy..I mean my business (motel) was doing ok, and suddenly no one came anymore. It sucks.

I'm sorry . . . it sounds familiar--

spouse and I continue to work, but we have a special needs dependent (minor) child--

we've thought of options. IF we could sell our small, modest home, we might be able to live in:


something like this. THESE are expensive, but we could build our own, IF we could find an area where a county wouldn't interfere--

possibly rent some land to put it on--and then garden, have small animals and hope we survive--LOL!

It's NOT funny, but . . .--

or something like this:


If we have the strength we could build something ourselves--

but . . .

God bless you; I'm so sorry.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

That does suck!

Sorry to hear about your predicament, Cricket. The internet seems the best way to tap into what's left of a viable economy in the country. Have you considered selling stuff on eBay or consignment shops?

We've made a good deal of money selling stuff on Craigslist. Some of the things we sell, we actually got from freecycle. (Be sure to check with your accountant to make sure you pay the IRS its fair share of your hard work and profit. Of course I don't need to remind anyone here of that!)

The re-sale market is booming now because people are looking for bargains.

Older Americans are 47 times richer than young

In 1984, households headed by people age 65 and older were worth just 10 times the median net worth of households headed by people 35 and younger.

But now that gap has widened to 47-to-one, marking the largest wealth gap ever recorded between the two age groups.


collectivizing again--

we are working senior citizens; both of us have ornery health problems we are dealing with without government assistance OR insurance OR medical practitioners.

We get little enough money that we qualify for food stamps, though we don't use them--

we also qualify for state insurance, though we won't apply for it.

We work hard in every possible way. We heat our home with wood; it hurt both of our backs to load the wood this summer, but we did it and now have a warm house. We have a special needs minor child, and we are surviving now in part, because we have a working young single adult living with us--

this person works hard but doesn't pay rent, just contributes much to the household and is saving for his/her future--

We are very much lower income, and we are senior citizens; we also put ourselves through college 4 to 5 decades ago--

we have also always saved, used builk foods and grown a garden; we just got hit by 'hard times'--

and yes, we know people in our age bracket whose earnings are roughly 20 to 30 times what ours are in a year (for the same number of hours worked)--

life is not very fair.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Unfortunate but true

A person can do everything right in life and still end up on the edge of the abyss.Funny how the tune changes when you think everything is going right then you find yourself hanging on by your finger nails just to exist.I know about hundreds that are raising their grandchildren because of unfortunate accidents to the parents. Are these grand kids to perish along with the grandparents or be raised by strangers?

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

I have found that those who are prospering often . . .

find it difficult to understand the difficulties of those who are not.

It is very easy for those who are prospering to think, because it makes them more comfortable, that those who are not prospering have been lazy or selfish or foolish, which is often not the case.

I find people whose lives have been blissfully prosperous to be sadly lacking in character much of the time (among my acquaintance) and to be quite shallow. If you want wisdom, you look for people who have had difficulties in their lives.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Yes,I agree.

This has always been the unfortunate truth.I was thinking about all this last night and have regrouped in direction.

I guess I am thinking some type of retirement program is as important to our society as roads,bridges and other infrastructure.The theory of no SS requires the need to rewrite human nature and make the masses personally responsible for their actions.In a freedom based culture this could take 150 years or more if it is even possible when viewed from a point of reality.The only way it could even work any sooner is if a change in human nature was forced onto the masses through tyranny.

Point being those that want to end it will never live to benefit or see the experiment play out.This is reality.I have trouble thinking anyone can already see what the world will be like that far ahead.Any attempt to change human nature in less time could very well be a disaster in humanity.You can bet that the current system will be wanted back if even worse laws are passed to prevent a looming disaster against human kind.

I am thinking that what we have now may very well be much better than what could actually be the unforeseen end result.It very well could backfire to cause even worse losses of freedoms.Anarchy will never be a reality.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

Good luck

You might want to focus on just surviving the next decade.

it is not impossible if you

it is not impossible if you do not have property tax and income tax.

These are part of the Communist Manifesto by the way.

You would only need $1000 a month if you didn't have to pay for income tax, property tax, and tax on gains in stocks and other assets which are mostly inflation anways since inflation goes into stocks.

$1000 a month is enough to go with the bus and have good meals.

Here is the link to None Dare call it Conspiracy on how the US has been taken over by the Communist Agenda: http://tinyurl.com/7jeup2f

The answer is: The same way

The answer is: The same way people live WITH social security. They have to supplement their income by some other source, or end up living like dogs.. on dog food.

~ Engage in the war of attrition: http://pacalliance.us/redamendment/

Or moving to a third-world country like me

and living like they're upper middle class. However, in that case you can't get Medicare.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

Human society existed for thousands of years

without using the force of government to systematically loot young workers to benefit the elderly. SS is but one example of failed social engineering that has contributed to the breakdown of bonds to family, friends, and neighbors that once sustained us through hardships.

Well, you could allow people to have money automatically...

...deducted from their check, before taxes, around 12%, and they could put that into a REAL retirement fund... and IRA or 401K or some other sort of diversified portfolio. Between the 6% you pay and the 6% the employer pays into your SS program now, that's about 12%. Unlike social security, your money would be safe and under YOUR control... so the government couldn't spend it... like they have our SS money.

I just plugged the following numbers into a retirement calculator...

Starting at age 20, making $40K per year average adjusted for inflation, and putting aside 12% of my income into a 401K with a balanced risk portfolio.... not aggressive, not conservative...

I assumed ZERO social security income, ZERO income from any other sources, and I also assumed that I wanted an income of $40,000/year after retirement.

The calculator gave me an 85% chance of this plan working to supply this level of income (which in 2056 wouldn't be $40K/yr, but rather $151K/yr adjusted for inflation).

So... 85% chance.

Verses... 0% chance. No way that in the year 2056 the SS program is going to be working out for anyone... certainly not supplying an income of $151K.

See, if YOU invest your money... instead of letting SOMEONE ELSE invest your money...

You win.

With social security... we're ALL going to lose.

I think Social Security was a good program had they not

started looting the SS Fund. Even Ayn Rand was able to live out her life with some dignity thanks to social security. Oh yes she did! Without it she would probably have died in poverty in the gutter which is fast becoming a reality for a lot of us.

In the early 60's there was so much money in Social Security if they would have let it earn interest it would have paid for itself without any more contributions to it.

But the then President Johnson took the SS funds and put it in to the General Funds and where were you the dumb lame American Public?

Did you march on Washington in the Millions and demand they put it back? No, not the meek do nothing public.

Social Security in not an entitlement!

It is an insurance fund that Americans have paid into for years and they deserve to receive what they got coming to them. On average we pay in about 140 thousand Dollars over a lifetime of work. Had they not devalued the dollar by creating the Federal Reserve and printing so much money. 140 Thousand Dollars would have been enough.

But they are still stealing money from the SS funds even as they are collected as we speak. But the dull uninformed Sports and beer brained public are clueless. But give them dancing with the stars!

There are enough money in the SS funds to last another 15 years and those that have paid in should get paid back.
If they would stop stealing from the SS Funds it will last even longer but do you know who is going to get the money?
Wall street, Yes the Wall street Banksters will get it all.
So cut Social Security for us and give it all to the Wall street Mob.

Why not cut the wars and bring home the troops first like Ron Paul says?

Then stop all the bailouts and tax breaks to the big wall street firms including subsidies to big Oil, to Gas, To Ethanol, to big pharma, to the 1% that controls most of the wealth in this country and even the world.

Then make them pay back the bailout money and forgive all mortgage, credit Card debt and student loans. Just forgiving Student loans would put over a trillion dollars back in the economy.

Screw the banks! The money they lent they created out of thin air! Did you know that that for every dollar you deposit in a bank they can lend out ten times that amount.
Yes by the stroke of a pen they can create money out of nothing. What a system! One which Ron Paul Opposes.
Besides why are banks foreclosing on houses they already got the bail out money for. Because they want to get paid twice, double their money!

And where is the dull boring do nothing American public?

Oh yea, we uh got cut Social Security, I guess Uh Uh right?

Yea while the banks enrich them selves in a game that is rigged but the public will never know because they are illiterate and they have no clue what is happening!

uh she didn't make money from

uh she didn't make money from her books?!?!!?!?!

$40,000? LOL!

Since WHEN? I'm retired and I get just over $900 a month and before the end of the year it will go DOWN to $800! So how's that Social Security workin' out? I work my whole life, put God knows how much into it, and this? Provide for yourself or you can bet your butt that the government won't.

Well, for starters

How about the government give me back all the SS Ive paid in.
I'll take that money and figure something out.

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

To Paraphrase Newt

I've studied this for years. That is, living without SS. Some generation is going to get hosed, when the Ponzi scheme craters; the only question is, which one. Be smart: assume it will be yours. Gotta have a plan - the best plan will be the one that assumes SS will be gone or, at best, be paid in worthless inflated dollars. The chances of the age required to draw benefits being raised again: 100%.

I'm in for a mix of any of the following:

1) Swallow your pride. Plan on working in retirement (since the age at which you can draw benefits will rise - it's the same thing). Learn a skill or service that will allow you to be self-employed; barring that hold down a job. Any job that some boss man won't screw you because you are elderly or not as capable of physical labor as younger candidates.

2) Move to a country where the cost of living is cheap. Mexico is a first logical thought, but there are others. Guess what: they're also freer than the USA, too.

3) Get a plot of land, buy a farm or form a cooperative and practice subsistence farming. If you can't do 1 or 2, this will at least put food on the table.

4) Get a gun. Not so you can take from someone else by force; but that idea will surely cross the minds of less scrupluous people finding themselves in the same situation as you.

Great post

I would add, buy The Complete Tightwad Gazette. You'll see why.