-2 votes

Mish expressed the same kind of concerns that I had.

UPDATE TODAY 1/17/2011

Mish expressed the same kind of concerns that I had, so I thought I would update this thread.

Mish wrote this today,
"That is exactly the problem this has unleashed. Every title in MERS is potentially clouded. How do you prove you paid the correct party. How do you prove you bought a house from someone that could legally discharge the liens on it? If you didn't, some genius lawyer, bank, or title company might find "legal" cause to come after you. That in turn may cause Congress to get into the act. This is a theoretical exercise so far, but not without concern."
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/01/comments-...

Also,
Utah's "Quiet Title Law" Bypasses MERS, Awards Homes Free and Clear; One Homeowner Had $417,000 Debt Erased
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/01/utahs-qui...

------------------------------------------------------
Original Subject: Who are you paying your mortgage to? Is your home safe?

I have these questions.

I think so called Foreclosure Gate reveled that some lenders that foreclosed homes could not prove that they had the right to do so because they could not produce the promissory note. But, I'm thinking that at some point in time before these homes were foreclosed, the owners of these homes were making mortgage payments to these lenders who ultimately could not show the promissory note.

So, my question is how is your home different? Do you know that your lender that you are making payments to actually owns the promissory note? Are you making mortgage payments to a lender who does not own the promissory note? If so, why? Are you concerned that there might be someone else that you don't know who actually own the promissory note?

Is it safe to buy a home that the current owner is making payments to a lender that does not own the promissory note?

Please, let me know your opinions. Thank you in advance.




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My bank wrote back that some investor owns the loan

So their lien is essentially bogus now. Time for them to pay the piper for their playing fast and loose with real estate transactions.

_________________
Romney is a detour on the way to liberty, anyone else is a shorter path, win or lose.

ACinMA's picture

Interesting discussion..

Interesting discussion.. Thanks for the info

Fall River, Bristol County, Massachusetts

ℛ[ƎVO˩]ution
"When one gets in bed with government,
one must expect the diseases it spreads."
‎"It's not like I'm a powerful person. My ideas are."

Debt not erased

Clear title to a house does not "erase" debt. It means there is no one who can foreclose on the property to settle the debt. Obviously, it is a lot easier to collect on a debt when you can take someones house if they do not pay it.

One upshot is that all those secularized mortgages are not worth squat. Without the right to foreclose, how are the debt-holders going to collect on all those bits and pieces?

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"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

Yeah, I guess especially if you've been paying to a wrong lender

What are you doing to ensure that you are paying to the right lender when you pay your mortgage?

government of the people, by the people, for the people
---

UPDATE TODAY 1/17/2011

Mish expressed the same kind of concerns that I had, so I thought I would update this thread.

Mish wrote this today,
"That is exactly the problem this has unleashed. Every title in MERS is potentially clouded. How do you prove you paid the correct party. How do you prove you bought a house from someone that could legally discharge the liens on it? If you didn't, some genius lawyer, bank, or title company might find "legal" cause to come after you. That in turn may cause Congress to get into the act. This is a theoretical exercise so far, but not without concern."
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/01/comments-...

Also,
Utah's "Quiet Title Law" Bypasses MERS, Awards Homes Free and Clear; One Homeowner Had $417,000 Debt Erased
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/01/utahs-qui...

government of the people, by the people, for the people
---

TimG

Thank you for the information. Very interesting.

government of the people, by the people, for the people
---

I am working through this now

So far the bank has said they "have a valid loan and lien" on the propety but also mention an investor that they are merely a contracted servicer.

I have asked for a clear response on who owns my loan and provide me with verification that my payments went to that owner.

There are no other parties listed at the county recorders office but the original bank.

It will get interesting soon.

_________________
Romney is a detour on the way to liberty, anyone else is a shorter path, win or lose.

In the Middle of Doing This -

I am no attorney and this should in no way considered to be legal advice. I am simply sharing what I am doing in response to all of the information freely available in current court proceeding. That being said, here is my story. Sorry for the length.

Back on October 14th, 2010, I sent a RESPA request (see attached Note Request Redacted) to the bank that originated my loan. Prior to sending this request, I called the County Recorders Office and requested all files on record relating to my property in order to see if any assignments or transfers of my mortgage were recorded and filed with the county. By Ohio Revised Code (Ohio’s state codes), any bank that sells a mortgage is required to file and record the transaction within 90 days of said transaction. (You can search for Florida’s laws through here - http://realestate.uslegal.com/mortgage-satisfaction/ohio-ass.... Turns out even the local and regional banks are not properly recording transfers on the sale of mortgages to investors on the secondary market. They are not recording these transactions in order to avoid the fees that must be paid based on the transaction price of the sale of that mortgage. This fee must be paid with every transaction and based on how many times the mortgages were sold, it would equate to a huge sum the banks are scamming the counties out of, not to mention the fraudulently accepted payments from the borrower.

In any event, I pulled up the records from the county office and noticed no secondary transfers of my mortgage were recorded. My bank wrote me back supplying me with their copies of the mortgage and the deed, which also reflected the same thing – no transfers to anyone beside my original bank and me. In their letter they indicated that they indeed sold my loan on the secondary market and they even explain that it was not recorded “for the ease of the transaction and to help the investors with the investment in the sale of the security.” So they outright admit that they didn’t record the transaction. This is the cornerstone of the Mortgage Backed Securities Fraud. Consequently, no other bank was put down as a lien on my property and the original bank’s lien is the only lien that exists when we signed the mortgage back in February 2007.

I have now sent a letter to the original bank I signed the mortgage with requesting that they remove their lien from the property (see attached Satisfaction of Mortgage Request REDACTED). By law, any time a bank sells a property, they have to remove their lien position from the home and it must be replaced with a lien of the investor who bought the mortgage if that investor wants any ability to lay claim on the property. The original bank we signed the mortgage with was paid in full when they sold the note and the party the note was sold to needs to file a new lien on the house, again within 90 days of the transaction taking place. Since the new owner of the note never placed lien on the property in accordance to the statutory limits, they cannot go back and do so now. They missed the fucking boat. The goal now is to remove from my mortgage the lien that was placed under the original bank that I signed the mortgage with, obviously because they don’t own it anymore.

The bank now has 60 days to remove their lien from my property. They also must provide me an accounting of the payments I made to them that were transfered to the bank that bought my mortgage. Based upon the date of the transfer, which was only a couple of months after I signed the mortgage back in February 2007, I can then go after the original bank (the one I continue to make my payments to) and demand all past payments be refunded to me as they were fraudulently applied to the wrong bank. We are talking close to $100,000 here, so I will push this piece hard if I get a satisfaction of mortgage from the originating bank. The bank, in theory, that purchased my mortgage is also shit out of luck and can’t claim a penny from me since they are not and cannot be recognized as the holder of the note. Again, that boat has left the dock.

Step 1 – Search and request from County Recorders Office for all documents pertaining to property.
Step 2 – Request from original bank all transfers/assignees on your mortgage.
Step 3 – See if banks records match that of county records.
Step 4 – See if assignees from bank were documented or not.
Step 5 – Ask for Satisfaction of mortgage from bank who sold mortgage to another bank.
Step 6 – Request refund of payments made to wrong owner of mortgage.
Step 7 – Confirm clear title with County Recorders Office
Step 8 – Lift middle finger to the bankers and enjoy a greater degree of freedom than most others living in the world of bread and circuses.

I am at step 6 and hope to enjoy Step 8. I have pieced this together from three and a half years worth of research, court docket review, and reading every law as it relates to mortgages. I could be indeed wrong, but so far everything is going according to plan and the banks are stuck. We will see.

One thing I can say for sure is that I offered to retain a real estate lawyer that I know and have know for years. I had not consulted him regarding steps 1 through 4. I assumed I would need him for steps 5 through 8, but he told me to not waste the money on him as I was so close to being home free, pun intended. He simply told me to request satisfaction of the mortgage from them and to ask for accounting of transfer payments. He said they will, in all likely hood, shit their pants when they get this. He confirmed that the transfer of assignees is where all of the fraudclosure lies. Instead of waiting to challenge this while in default, I am in a better position while I am current on payments. Time will tell and I will keep you posted.

This is pretty good.

Looks like you did some 'homework' (pun intended).
I hope that it works out for you. Just remember, keep it honest!

We should all do this against the Federal Reserve now...

Bump for further discussion

http://www.fija.org

The Federal Reserve has declared open season on most of America, as have their global banking partners.

We should return the favor and declare open season on every single bank's mortgage....If they lose the mortgage, they lose yet another slot in their whole enterprise.

Yet another nail, directly into their coffin for the Federal Reserve is also bankrupt. We should be able to bankrupt them state to state...

NOTE REQUEST TO ORIGINATOR OF MORTGAGE – REDACTED

FROM ADDRESS REDACTED
TO ADDRESS
REDACTED

RE: REDACTED Mortgage Loan #REDACTED

This is a qualified written request under Section 6 of the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act (RESPA). I own the property at the address listed above, and your bank services my mortgage.

Over the last several weeks there have been many stories documenting the problem that banks are foreclosing on homes without proof that they own the loan. I have learned that in many cases, banks like yours do not even know who owns the loans you service. Employees at several leading banks have admitted to rubber-stamping tens of thousands of foreclosures every month, without even checking to make sure that the bank had a legal right to proceed with foreclosure. In some cases, banks allegedly falsified mortgage documents to cover up their mistakes. There have been reports of two banks trying to foreclose on the same home, banks foreclosing on homeowners who were current on their payments, and even of a bank foreclosing on a home where the homeowner had never taken out a mortgage to begin with. This is not merely a "technical problem"--it is the difference between having a warm bed at night and being out on the street.

As a homeowner and a customer of your bank, I am horrified. I had always believed that if I played by the rules, I would be protected, but now I know that banks like yours think the rules don't apply to them. While I have requested in the past for the removal of my PMI for the account listed above, I was told that the rules would not allow the bank to remove my PMI because of my current equity position. My understanding is that both parties should then follow the rules accordingly.

To protect my family, and myself I need to know who owns my mortgage. Within sixty days, I would like to know the name, address, and phone number of the bank or investor that owns my mortgage. Furthermore, in light of the recent allegations of foreclosure fraud, I demand to see the original mortgage note proving ownership over my home loan.

I would also like a list of any third-party title assignments for the property listed above, along with verification of my payments being sent to the current holder of the note.

If you fail to produce a mortgage note proving that you have a right to collect my mortgage payments, I will be forced to consider all options available to me to ensure that my family and my home are protected.

I ask that I receive my response in writing. I understand that under Section 6 of RESPA you are legally required to acknowledge my request within twenty business days and must try to resolve the issue within sixty days.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Regards,

REDACTED

SATISFACTION OR MORTGAGE REQUEST TO MORTGAGE ORIGINATOR – REDACT

FROM ADDRESS REDACTED

TO ADDRESS REDACTED

January 7, 2011
RE: REDACTED Mortgage Loan #REDACTED

On October 14, 2010, a qualified written request under Section 6 of the Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act (RESPA) was sent to the attention of REDACTED. In response to the inquiry, two different departments within REDACTED have indicated opposing views as it relates to holder of the mortgage. One response indicates that REDACTED is currently the holder of the mortgage and no assignments of the mortgage had taken place regarding the above reference property. This response was received within 60 days of the aforementioned request. In late December of 2010, a second response was received which indicates an alleged assignment to REDACTED, as well as written confirmation that no recording of the assignment had taken place.

This latter response is indicative of the recent widespread failure of securitization industry participants to adhere to their own agreements. Furthermore, Ohio Revise Code requires that an assignment must be in writing and recorded. A mortgage may be assigned or partially released by the holder of the mortgage, by writing the assignment or partial release on the original mortgage or upon the margin of the record of the original mortgage and signing it. Also allowed by separate instrument, see code sections 5301.31 and 5301.32. A search of documents at the County Recorder Office, as well as a search of the documents REDACTED presented in response to the RESPA request indicate no such required recording of the assignment on the original mortgage or through any separate instruments.

While it is understandable that lenders, or holders of mortgages or deeds of trust, often assign mortgages or deeds of trust to other lenders, or third parties, appropriate documentation must be provided and recorded in order for the investor to take place of the original lien holder. To effectuate an assignment, the general rules is that the assignment must be in proper written format and recorded to provide notice of the assignment.
Once a mortgage or deed of trust is paid, the holder of the mortgage is required to satisfy the mortgage or deed of trust of record to show that the mortgage or deed of trust is no longer a lien on the property. The general rule is that the satisfaction must be in proper written format and recorded to provide notice of the satisfaction. If the lender fails to record a satisfaction within set time limits, the lender may be responsible for damages set by statute for failure to timely cancel the lien.
There is no document in the record establishing that either the note or the mortgage was assigned to REDACTED, hence no legal documentation to indicate that the note was assigned. If, as the RESPA response indicates, REDACTED is the investor on this mortgage and REDACTED is not the holder of the note, then there is no basis for the claim of continued receipt of the borrowers payments. As such, REDACTED would not be considered a creditor of this debtor and lacks statutory authority to file a proof of claim on this property.
This letter is a formal written request for a Satisfaction of Mortgage on behalf of REDACTED so as to remove REDACTED from the lien position on the mortgage. Please also provide an accounting of all payments paid to the investor listed in the response to the October 14, 2010 RESPA request.

Regards,

REDACTED

P.S. I am sorry for the three errant curse words in my reply to this posting. I simply copy and pasted this information from the email that I sent to my cousin. Since I was talking to him in this letter, I apparently let some fun words fly. This was not intentional and since I replied to my replies, I lost the ability to edit them out. Opps.

I thought this would be an interesting topic for anyone who owns

a home whether he/she has never missed a payment, the house is paid off, or the house is in a process of foreclosure.

Do you know if you are paying or paid to the right entity or should this be a concern at all?

government of the people, by the people, for the people
---

F the banks! I want them to

F the banks!

I want them to show me a wet ink copy of my mortgauge "agreement" or I'll quit paying on it....

'course I'm too much of a pansy to initiate all this so I'll just sit here and armchair quarterback for now..

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato

Ask yourself this question?

If you inquirer now, would you be tipping off the mortgage as to the problem. Then presto some robo company gets the call. No more problem all paper work is present .Just saying use your head.

Checking that now. No opinion yet.

\

Free includes debt-free!