11 votes

I Confess I Gave All Those Thumbs Down

Dr Paul said have fun during the r3volution and I was having fun....probably pressed that thumbs down at least a couple thousand times or more...

Now I believe my point is proven. I'll state my case here and leave it all for you add you comments,ideas and opinions.

Thumbs up or thumbs down let the truth prevail...

If one person could do that just think what a dedicated group of people that are not on our side do? And yes they are here some even possibly from DHS because I was here when a former moderator named Sentinel discovered that.

There are also deeply embedded trolls here working against us and some that haven't even really used their accounts yet. Know why? Because they don't mess around and plan years ahead for different contingency's and you can damned well believe that they were looking ahead to a Ron Paul 2012 run.

Now onto the how.

1. A team acting against us could bury critical information during the campaign.
http://onlinereputationedge.com/story-killers-diggs-bury-bri...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg
""Organized ideologically-motivated censorship
Main article: Digg Patriots

On August 5, 2010, progressive blogger Ole Ole Olson (aka "Novenator") posted a report to AlterNet about a year-long effort of organized burying of seemingly-liberal articles from the Upcoming module of Digg by a conservative Yahoo! Groups mailing list known as DiggPatriots and an associated page on coRank; he also accused leading members of the mailing list of participating in behavior which violated the Digg Terms of Usage, such as creating "sleeper" accounts in the event of administrators banning their main accounts for terms-violating behavior as well as vexatious "reporting" of seemingly-liberal users for banning.[60][61] The post was immediately followed by the disbanding and closure of the DiggPatriots list, and an investigation into the matter by Digg.[62]""

And...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg_Patriots

And we all really need to think about that...very critically.

Scenario:
You hopped up on the board late because that was the only time you had because you get off work late...meanwhile a small but dedicated group of the enemy has logged on and seen that there are no moderators on and worked furiously to thumbs down critical time relevant information,or an email address or a phone number or a website link...do you really want to have to expand every comment you see because you'll never know whats there unless you do...

Do you want to waste your time giving a thumbs up to comments they are trying to bury or would you rather spend your time more fruitfully?

Unless Michael,Jon and whoever else is working the back end of the site has this all figured out on immediate identification of these people I say this is the worst idea I've seen yet and I apologize if this offends anyone but I am adamant about this.

All the upgrades and tweaks that have been done so far have been absolutely fantastic but we are in a fight for our lives basically and I do not want to see us do anything that would hinder that, like a thumbs up or down bury the comment type thing it could hurt us.Let everything be seen!!!

______________________________________________________________
2. Also I believe that this will tend to stifle discussion and make people lazy possibly by giving a thumb up or down instead of adding to the discussion to present their ideas,experience or knowledge. And it will cause preconceptions when they see a post or comment with an enormous amount of thumbs up or thumbs down.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Joη's picture

since I suggested the feature, to your points:

I encourage everyone's feedback, lest mods devolve into the George Lucas Prequel Syndrome, thinking "everything I do is good!".

To your points:

"I Confess"

I assume you knew the mods were aware you were doing it as soon as you started. It's not hard for activity like that to stand out. We were wondering when you'd stop. But I'm sure you weren't addressing this to that crowd.

"If one person could do that just think what a dedicated group of people that are not on our side do?"

You probably clicked on each arrow, right? Don't want to give anyone ideas, but there are far more efficient ways of doing that if you know what you're doing. But those who do usually don't because it's jerky. I don't mean to build a strawman, or call you a jerk, but to point out that malicious intent is rarely efficient. Far more often, malice hides in the lining of good intention's coattails.

However, I do commend the contingency planning of all the spammers who signed up in the event a voting system was implemented. Particularly since there was no hint it was ever going to happen.

http://onlinereputationedge.com/story-killers-diggs-bury-brigade-vs-reddits-downmod-squad

Your first link, while no doubt provides factual information in its OP, also has an interesting conversation in its comment section, (which led to a very relevant RP censorship article, but anyway--) in which it is intimated that the author is complaining about sour grapes during his experience on those sites with his marketing career's subjects. Let's assume it's not. Ok. The community will do what it will do. Certain reddit boards have devolved, others still have useful discussion. It is up to this community how to use the tools given to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digg_Patriots

Your second link, while likewise factual, suggests to me (if the numbers are truly not yet there) a Pro-Paul digg alternative should exist, as Mises.org make its own wiki.mises.org, to provide explicitly pro-free market articles, instead of putting up with wikipedia's "neutral above all else" mantra. I'd rather the DP tend toward content generation, as I abhor aggregators for being inherently repetitive, but I see nothing wrong with being able to silently provide my opinion to help form a consensus, should even more anonymous folk wish to help out.

You'll also note the "bury" button, which was removed as a result of the "Digg Patriot list" investigation, was returned within 3 months.

This also addresses why it's not just a "like" button, but a vote up and down: neural nets need both positive and negative feedback in order to function. It's how the human brain works. Neural nets simply do not function efficiently on "positive-only" feedback. And this site is one macroscopic neural net.

Regarding your scenario:

"do you really want to have to expand every comment you see because you'll never know whats there unless you do..."

I admit this is unfair to point out now that comment minimizing is opt in, and wasn't when you wrote this, but it's also kinda unfair to critique works in progress as final products. There was an unexpected problem the day voting was implemented, and I left instructions I did not make clear for others to stop at a certain step and let me finish later. Instead, what was there was rolled out, and many people reasonably questioned "what does voting do?" because...it did nothing for the first day or so. Thus the first impression was botched, which was my fault. I later added in what I was thinking about, one of which was user-site customizations, which allowed for opting in or out of new stuff.

"Also I believe that this will tend to stifle discussion and make people lazy possibly by giving a thumb up or down instead of adding to the discussion to present their ideas,experience or knowledge. And it will cause preconceptions when they see a post or comment with an enormous amount of thumbs up or thumbs down."

This is true. Those intimidated by different images on their screen may not talk as often. But I'd rather risk that than forever wonder "what does everyone else think about this?". I'm as for creativity as is humanly possible, but there are only so many responses to some subjects. Once they are presented, it is better to agree or disagree than endlessly repeat either.

It is also true that preconceptions will be developed, like "geoengineering is not as important as CPAC right now", or "the freeman philosophy espoused by Robert Menard might not be as important as this ongoing moneybomb". Both formers worthwhile subjects to understand, but you must agree not flagship planks of the Daily Paul at the moment.

I posted on top of the Top100 list a link to the long tail distribution. The internet, for the first time, has made it (possible! and) as useful to provide for everything that isn't popular as much as what is. You have even commented that "when campaign season starts, nearly all the chaff topics will be dropped". Well, this is one way to do that, and there's nothing wrong with that.

Notice: no content is going away.

I think these new things are desperately needed for a site whose format hasn't been significantly updated in years. Take the much simpler example of seeing things in chronological order: because no alternative was known, everyone simply accepted that they had to laboriously scan Recent Posts to find all new content, when there was a much simpler way to present that data. The community needs better "memory" in both the short and long terms. That requires more ways to see data, that requires more metadata.

Lastly, this feature is still relatively early in development in my mind, and I'll admit its proper uses are not fully known. But it requires iteration, time, and tweaking. Do people care to see who votes similarly to them? I wouldn't, really. But I bet it might evidence the concerted efforts that concern you.

"You underestimate the character of man." | "So be off now, and set about it." | Up for a game?

Joη I am putting you to a test

can you show the comment Michael Nystrom made to
Thomas 01/16/2010 18:17

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Hey Legalize How Come Jon Or Michael Nystrom Won't Help You?

with finding this post that prove you right? Answer because you have been hung out to dry on this one and they cannot touch it because it doesn't exist.And they all are a big disappointment to me for not standing up to your bullshit...

If they have looked into this they know it's not there because I sent you the entire post fresh from the archived unpublished post.

Note to Michael and all the other moderators I am never dropping this,ever until someone steps up and straightens this guy out.
What you are letting Tomasz get away with is wrong.I am not going to let him get away with making untrue allegations towards me.

Where is any of your sense of right? Michael if someone called you a neo-nazi without any foundation how would you feel? Or how about you Jon? Sunny? BigMikeDude? Anyone?

Shame on all of you...at this point you all do what you feel but there is one mod there that knows the truth and some DP members. By your silence you are furthering and reinforcing this behavior...mollycoddling if you will creating a bigger monster on the board. Thomas

!

I agree with a lot of what you express here, but I stop short of doubting the site and its owner. It's burdensome to draw lines on a libertarian website. One would hope issues like this could be resolved without any action from the moderators, but it doesn't look like that is working.

ckpac A Lot Of People Can't Figure This One Out...

and now the little guy thinks I'm in some kind of conspiracy to thumbs down his comments with my merry band of pranksters...lol

by the way I'm giving you a thumbs up for having the integrity to state your take on this situation publicly, thanks.

I think he's been punking us for years

I think it's all an elaborate joke or some type of KGB operation

This guy's youtube channel is named campaign4liberty!

He's all over the internet dedicating songs like this to Ron Paul and his supporters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv-34w8kGPM

Interesting Thought...

but I vote no on that I just thinks he's happy go lucky clueless with a few other dysfunctions thrown in...

but wtf could explain the

but wtf could explain the song dedications like "Push It" by Salt n Pepa.

"Ah, push it Ah, push it Oooh, baby, baby Baby, baby Oooh"

It's psy ops at its finest. These guys are having a ball.

Back It Up f-buzz With Links...

I know a couple of days ago he posted a song dedicated to Ron that was a boy/girl love song that was just weird,disgusting and
inappropriate. Lets face it he's not psyops...

Do you know what the difference between you and I are?

I attempt to change the minds of those that disagree with me.

You attempt to demoralize and destroy those that disagree with you.

I think you never believed in that backwards word in our motto.

R3VOlution.

You Are Just Like This Guy Scott...

when all else fails: make accusations of racism.You tried it and now this one has tried it and failed.

You don't know the facts of this one so please stay out of it.

I don't think I ever failed.

I have felt all along that the DP and its content has been trending towards my ideals and away from yours.

Away from hate and fear topics.

And toward topics devoted to liberty and ideas.

Of course, I too, have made statements on here that I regret and have apologized many times on here.

LL has made and accusation. Some others have made the same accusations about you.

Have you ever considered doing a little soul searching?

From where I sit, you seem do have done some reflection in the past, but whenever you get angry, your hate takes over.

That is not a bad thing, its just that perception is a funny thing.

You Are Still Trying To Stir The Pot With Me Scott

just like you did a couple times in the very recent past.I'm still going to basically ignore you but will say once again: you don't know what is going on here so you have done your duty and I heard you and you are now free to stay out of it. Thank You

I will leave you with this when you or anyone makes this accusation or any accusation you to me you better damn well be able to back it up with facts or I'll hound you to the gates of hell and push you in...lie about me..pay the piper.

I think that last little bit says it all.

I wish you well on your journey.

I do wish to add one thing.

I think it would be a good idea if MN required the use of real names in order to post.

It would probably alliviate alot of the tension.

LegalizeLiberty...

For the last 3 weeks or so you have slandered me by accusing me of some racist attack directed at you because of your Polish heritage. I told you it never happened which it clearly did not.

You changed your story so many times it made no logical sense whatsoever. You then in your mind escalated the attacks further by accusing me of being a neo-nazi. You claimed you would find "proof".

You then stated that you had a sharp mind and never forgot things,especially something like this since I'm the only one named Thomas here.

You claimed I apologized to both Michael and yourself and also claimed I never apologized to you. You cannot even get your story straight because you do not have one.Because it never happened Tomasz. Never in my near 4 years have I ever attacked anyone here because of their race.

I went a step further and provided email that this never happened and that the apology was to Michael Nystrom only for my language and that it had nothing to do with you. You couldn't take this at face value and had to be insistent with this further burying yourself.

I asked you to apologize for this unfounded slander and you had the audacity to try to turn around and act incredulous since you were the "offended one".

Here is where the rubber meets the road Tomasz because I am now sending you the unedited full text with nothing changed as it resides unpublished on the DailyPaul as it happened.

This can be verified by any of your moderator friends or Michael if you want to bug him with your nonsense.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/121788
Christianity is Evil and Should be Banned...(original title)

Do You Believe in Freedom (of Religion) For All..... or Just For Some?

Submitted by Reconstituter001 on Sat, 01/16/2010 - 13:35

Now that is the entire thread. I know you will see that you were 100% wrong. You further stated it was you or me that was going to leave the DP over this and you were going to go Michael with your threats...ad nasium. You do whatever you feel is right but I'm letting it be known that I do want that apology for calling me a racist and neo-nazi because whatever happened in you mind never happened in real life. Regards, Thomas

ps if anyone wants to see the entire thread feel absolutely free to contact me through the DP contact form and I will send you it.

Thomas

What you point at is not the attack I am talking about.

There was a comment you made at me - which I so far could not find.
in that comment you used a racist slur at me my nationality as I remember and Michael Nystrom right away stepped in and asked you directly asked you to apologize to him on the spot or else you would be banned from Daily Paul & you at that very moment apologized to him.
Do you remember the time this happened?
So this way it would be much easier for me to find the whole thread which is not the thread that you just send me in an email.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

LegalizeLiberty You Are Mistaken

And you never will find it because it didn't happen and once again it wasn't about you it was about F-Bombing the thread which Michael made me immediately apologize about(something you continue to do here as recent as a few days ago and no one bats an eye).I sent you the whole thread from 1/16/10 and verified with emails.What the hell is wrong with you? Why would Michael ask me to apologize to him if you were the one offended? You make no sense...

That is the the exact entire post/thread that you claim this happened on complete with and what Michael asked me apologize about unedited with all the "rich" language. You actually think Michael or some one else would unpublish the post and edit out something I supposedly said to you yet miraculously leave all the other coarse language in? Gimme a break...

It never happened and that is the thread I sent you that you cannot find. I posted the email that verifies what Michael said and my reply/apology.

And once again if anyone wants to see the original thread unedited and the email exchange between Michael Nystrom and myself proving that LegalizeLiberty is basically deranged feel free to contact me here and I will forward you the original post and the emails:
http://www.dailypaul.com/user/526

Ding Ding

I'm putting you both in a boxing ring.

Betting palor opens at midnight.

Great Post

This is why nothing will ever beat boots on the ground when it comes time for elections..

"I have found that being rich is not about having the most but about needing the least"

Agreed. If a topic is hot it will remain on the top of the

list because people are talking about it. No need to vote it up or down.

As for comments, that's just more site garbage. It is wholly unnecessary and opens up new problems.

These are not on balance good changes in my opinion.

Michael, you should also implement time lag mirrors of the site.

Consider the use of other domain names / independent sites to host the content in the event your main site / database is attacked / taken offline.

Provide for redundancy, recovery, a plan B, etc.

I am sure you are already on top of it though.

Agree. Bull-No-Bull could assist for example.

DailyPaul would benefit by having mirror sites & aliases. All links lead to DailyPaul.

Disclaimer: Mark Twain (1835-1910-To be continued) is unlicensed. His river pilot's license went delinquent in 1862. Caution advised. Daily Paul

true

it has and will happen

Simple solution: Only have thumbs up

Simple solution: Only have thumbs up

This is what FB does to keep things friendly.

Or identify who gives a

Or identify who gives a thumbs down to an article.

Make it public. We should have nothing to hide from one another.

I clearly remember all of us

I clearly remember all of us using this tactic on Digg and on text messaging polls. We would flood them and would usually get our way regardless of anything else.

The Digg Bury Brigade did just what Thomas is saying with Ron Paul articles on Digg a few years back.

So what you say is entirely plausible.

I just gave you a "thumbs up" and a bump!

Thanks for pointing that out. If we see "long time listeners, first time callers" posting, we should gently sniff them out in case they are plants.