"Consent of the governed": a contradiction in terms (Larken Rose)
Submitted by dabooda on Sat, 02/12/2011 - 21:08This post is an excerpt from Larken Rose's new book,The Most Dangerous Superstition Reprinted with permission of the author. (I would l♥ve to say that Larken "authorized" this reprint, but the whole thesis of his book is that "authority" is "the most dangerous superstition," and he'd likely hunt me down & carry on cranky. Great book.
"The Myth of Consent" (TMDS pp. 15-17)
There are two basic ways in which people can interact: by mutual agreement, or by one person using threats or violence to force his will upon another. The first can be labeled "consent" -- both sides willingly and voluntarily agreeing to what is to be done. The second can be labeled "governing" -- one person controlling another. Since these two -- consent and governing -- are opposites, the concept of "consent of the governed" is a contradiction. If there is mutual consent, it is not "government"; if there is governing, there is no consent. Some will claim that a majority, or the people as a whole, have given their consent to be ruled, even if many individuals have not. But such an argument turns the concept of consent on its head. No one, individually or as a group, can give consent for something to be done to someone else. That is simply not what "consent" means. It defies logic to say, "I give my consent for you to be robbed." Yet that is the basis of the cult of "democracy": the notion that a majority can give consent on behalf of a minority. That is not "consent of the governed"; it is forcible control of the governed, with the "consent" of a third party.Even if someone were silly enough to actually tell someone else, "I agree to let you forcibly control me," the moment the controller must force the "controllee" to do something, there is obviously no longer "consent." Prior to that moment, there is no "governing" -- only voluntary cooperation. Expressing the concept more precisely exposes its inherent schizophrenia: "I agree to let you force things upon me, whether I agree to them or not."
But in reality, no one ever agrees to let those in "government" do whatever they want. So, in order to fabricate "consent" where there is none, believers in "authority" add another, even more bizarre step to the mythology: the notion of "implied consent." The claim is that, by merely living in a town, or a state, or a country, one is "agreeing" to abide by whatever rules happen to be issued by the people who claim to have the right to rule that town, state or country. The idea is that if someone does not like the rules, he is free to leave the town, state or country altogether, and if he chooses not to leave, that constitutes giving his consent to be controlled by the rulers of that jurisdiction.
Though it is constantly parroted as gospel, the idea defies common sense. It makes no more sense than a carjacker stopping a driver on a Sunday and telling him,"By driving a car in this neighborhood on a Sunday, you are agreeing to give me your car." One person obviously cannot decide what counts as someone else "agreeing" to something. An agreement is when two or more people communicate a mutual willingness to enter into some arrangement. Simply being born somewhere is not agreeing to anything, nor is living in one's own house when some king or politician has declared it to be within the realm he rules. It is one thing for someone to say, "if you want to ride in my car, you may not smoke," or "You can come into my house only if you take your shoes off." It is quite another to try to tell other people what they can do on their own property. Whoever has the right to make the rules for a particular place is, by definition, the owner of that place. That is the basis of the idea of private property: that there can be an "owner" who has the exclusive right to decide what is done with and on that property. The owner of a house has the right to keep others out of it and, by extension, the right to tell visitors what they can and cannot do as long as they are in the house.
And that sheds some light on the underlying assumption behind the idea of implied consent. To tell someone that his only valid choices are either to leave the "country" or to abide by whatever commands the politicians issue, logically implies that everything in the "country" is the property of the politicians. If a person can spend year after year paying for his home, or even building it himself, and his choices are still to either obey the politicians or get out, that means that his house and the time and effort he invested in the house are the property of the politicians. And for one person's time and effort to rightfully belong to another is the definition of slavery. That is exactly what the "implied consent" theory means: that every "country" is a huge slave plantation, and that everything and everyone there is the property of the politicians. And, of course, the master does not need the consent of his slave.
UPDATE: I've posted a second excerpt from The Most Dangerous Superstition here on another thread.
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ABSOLUTELY WRONG!! The ONLY
ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!
The ONLY reason we pay property tax or building permit fees is because somewhere along the line we consented, in the case of Property tax, when land is purchased, for some reason we record it with the State (County)...this "activity" is NOT required, but when we record it, then they can charge a fee for the service of protecting it 'fee simple', and for being an 'interest holder' in the property.
Essentially, by recording the deed, we make the State the 'owner' and we become the 'tenant' (look at your deeds). THIS, and this alone, is why we have to then ask the State for PERMISSION to build or alter 'their' property.
There is a difference between "Real Property" and "Private Property". Private property is NOT taxable unless given for public use, real property IS taxable.
I do agree with you that we are being tricked, but it is up to us to stop falling for it. For many Americans, recording the title to our cars and houses is mandatory, that is because, if there is a loan on the property it MUST be recorded, this protects the banks, that are subdivisions of the UNITED STATES under the USC National Banking laws.
Americans are USUALLY tricked by 'applying' for some benefit, such as loans, mortgages, retirement, interest accounts, etc.
violent monopolies are illegitimate
The problem is not only that they are tricking us, it's that their laws and their interpretation of the laws are a violent monopoly and therefore illegitimate.
If we were tricked, then why can't we use this as a defense if we tell the judge that the contract should be null and void? Because the court is a violent monopoly who interprets the law in its own favor.
If we’re consenting when we record the deed or obtain a loan or apply for some benefit – why is it that when someone breaks their contract with the corporation (by not paying taxes they agreed to pay, for example), that they get kidnapped and put in a cell for a long time?
If I have a contract with you and I break it, we go to civil court. There is no kidnapping and jail time.
Why isn't the corporation subject to the same rules? Because they have a violent monopoly on the rules.
"Anything that's not nailed down belongs to me.
And anything I can pry loose is not nailed down."
Of course governments can and do define and interpret "consent" in any way that suits themselves, and impose their version on the rest of us. You drove your car through my turf on Sunday, so you consented to be carjacked!
Does that legal definition have any relevance to the actual issue of "consent" and "government" being antithetical concepts? Is Rose making a valid point, or not?
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
It's a never ending amount of
It's a never ending amount of threads about why government, voting, etc is all bad.
Why don't you go find a marxist anarchist forum to post on? Since this is a forum specifically about electing someone, your posts are contradicted here. Responding to you is like a noisome sore, and a tar baby effect, and the purpose of your posts isn't to inform - but only to attract noise.
As if noise is intellect.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.
Instead of posting insulting noise
Try writing something to demonstrate your intellect, if any. If you see a flaw in Rose's argument, let's hear about it.
This is a forum about liberty. If you don't like what's being discussed on some threads, you're free not to read them.
And there's one thing about liberty that you seem not to know: it's the one thing you can't have unless you're willing to give it to everyone else.
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
slave plantation
This passage reminds me of this video.
Paying for his home?
Did the person "pay" for his home in "plantation money" (federal reserve notes)? If so, he paid for nothing, because his notes are nothing and were given to him by the "slave plantation" (they own and control all "plantation money"). Notes are not money! When you spend "their money", you are correct, "implied consent". Implied consent that notes are money.
http://www.powerpolitics.com
“If Americans wish to be free of judicial tyranny, they must at least develop basic knowledge of the judicial role in our republican government. The present state of affairs is a direct result of our collective ignorance.”
—
There's probably a connection.
Larken is a fan of Molyneux's work. He recommended Universally Preferable Behavior to me , but I haven't read it yet.
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
Come on, people! Where's the argument?
Where are the Constitutionalists today? Won't anybody make a case for our government having the consent of the governed?? I know Rose makes a great case for his viewpoint, but . . . not . . . ONE . . . whimper . . . of . . . protest?
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
Here's the argument,
if you can grasp the concept. "The judicial power shall extend to all cases, Law and Equity". It's all a word game.
All the rhetoric, yours and Larken's, is under the "law" jurisdiction, which we refer to as the "democracy". When one exercises the "Equity" side of the judicial power, that is what we refer to as the "republic". The Article I, represent the democracy and the Article III represents the republic. All legislation is written for corporations and does not apply to individuals.
Due to the dual nature of the Constitution, each word used can be construed as either corporate or common. The words can then be viewed with opposite meanings. Drive is the opposite of travel or driving is regulated by code and travel is regulated by right.
You don't have to be informed to consent. People consent all the time by silence. In fact, if one hires an attorney, they consent to the jurisdiction of the court! You probably didn't know that.
http://www.powerpolitics.com
“If Americans wish to be free of judicial tyranny, they must at least develop basic knowledge of the judicial role in our republican government. The present state of affairs is a direct result of our collective ignorance.”
—
There are lots of things I don't know.
But nothing you've said here has enlightened my ignorance. Your failing, not mine. I speak perfectly good English, not Legalese.
I have little interest in word games played using identical words with opposite meanings. What you've described sounds like a con game, designed to browbeat the victims with arcane legalese into acquiescing to whatever scam the lawyer is trying to run. If you have a point to make, try explaining it in layman's terms. If that is not possible, may I suggest that you've managed to confuse yourself?
I'm sure there are various legal definitions of "consent," which are different or opposite to those commonly used. I'll stick with the usual one as the one that makes sense. If you're talking about something besides mutual, voluntary agreement being "consent," then we're not talking about the same thing.
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
rule?
According to who? Who made that rule?
I hope you don't mind
but I posted "Rights are Santa Clause" here.
Link
I don't mind.
But I could wish that you'd spelled Santa Claus correctly. I've cleaned the piece up a little bit and sent it off to Strike the Root yesterday. We'll see if they publish it.
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
I'm sorry man.
My relationship with technology is an awesome one but sometimes it rears up and bites you in the ass. Reliance on spellcheck is one of those times.
But I did fix a dyslexic spot in the essay. :D
Let me know if StR publishes it.
"Rights Are Santa Claus" on STR
They just published it. This version is a little more polished.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/rights-are-santa-claus
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
What's your take on
What's your take on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hzMHLK93TA
malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium
I am an aristocrat. I love liberty; I hate equality. - John Randolph of Roanoke
Not really impressive.
That's Michael Badnarik's tape, right? He starts out okay explaining why the Constitution is not binding on the people, but when he tries to explain that the Constitution IS binding on members of government, and that any action they take needs to be both constitutional and legitimate, he's fantasizing. Every government decides for itself which of its actions are "legitimate," and imposes its decisions on its citizens by force. And it decides for itself which actions are "constitutional," and imposes those by force as well. I can picture Badarik arguing with the IRS that the income tax isn't "legitimate." Sad. Lots of people share his devout wish for "legitimate authority," But it doesn't exist. The initiation of force is what government DOES, it's what it IS. The whole idea of government is that some men can have a right to do things that "normal" people cannot -- like all the good things in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Such aggression (for example, the "right" to levy "taxes") can never be "legitimate."
People have free will. No document (i.e. Constitution) can limit that quality in anyone. Give a politician the power to rule you, and no matter what promises he makes to be a good ruler, no matter what oaths he takes -- once he has that power, the use he makes of it is not up to YOU any more. He's the master. If he abuses his power, he's still the master.
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
fascinating topic--
bump--
it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--
Silence is consent!
This has always been my idea when dealing with government agents. So in order to not consent, one must present the order to the agent or he is consenting by silence. What order, you ask? The restraining order that you get from the Court. You can't get a restraining order by way of the law, one must proceed in equity to obtain the order. You can even get the order after your rights have been violated!
http://www.powerpolitics.com
“If Americans wish to be free of judicial tyranny, they must at least develop basic knowledge of the judicial role in our republican government. The present state of affairs is a direct result of our collective ignorance.”
—
The very meaning of rule establishment
means that silence is not consent.Consent implies I KNOW what you mean by your activity.
If I am ignorant then there can be NO consent.
If I am kept ignoant, then there is all the more intrusion.
You have an interesting play point. The play cannot be one sided.
FLÜGGÅƎNK∂€ČHIŒβØL∫ÊN
There can be no consent of the governed without a safe word.
Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń
"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln
I am not going to ask
how you happened to know that.
But I'm still chuckling.
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
YES we have a choice.
to live in Constant upheaval, or to live in some kind of PEACE.
Some people prefer PEACE, or what you can get of it.
There will NEVER be a time that MANKIND can dwell totally in Peace. ( with one exception)
Some people have other commitments, than to fight a war with goverments CONSTANTLY.
The human Heart is desperatly wicked.
Without a change from the Creator,Peace can never happen. It is not in the natural man's heart.
Blessed are the Peacemakers for they shall see GOD.
NO Jesus NO Peace. Know Jesus know Peace everlasting.
In response to your irrelevant religious homily:
"To sum up: 1. The cosmos is a gigantic fly-wheel making 10,000 revolutions a minute. 2. Man is a sick fly taking a dizzy ride on it. 3. Religion is the theory that the wheel was designed and set spinning to give him the ride." ~ H.L. Mencken
But hey, thanks for bumping the thread.
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
"The Most Dangerous Superstition"
Just received the book as well...only a part of the way through it, and it's already an eye opener!! If only the masses would open it, read it, and seriously consider it.
The masses are asses.
It isn't the complacent masses who should read TMDS. The people who really need to read the book are the people IN the "liberty movement." People like you and me need to read it, because even we are infected with the superstition that "authority" exists; that some men can be the rightful rulers of others. The superstition leads us to think that we ought to be working "within the system" to "reform government."
But "government" can't be reformed. It doesn't even exist. There are no rightful masters, and we have no moral duty to obey the thugs who pretend to be.
If we wish to take the road to freedom, we, the pioneers, need to step off the path that only leads to more "government."
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
just got the book
dabooda,
I ordered the book at your suggestion. Just started reading it, so far it's great.
Good on you.
I posted a review of it on Amazon, too. Getting people to read that book is going to be my main focus on the DP for awhile. Did you listen to Ron Paul's CPAC speech, the line: Government doesn't have a right to do anything that you don't have a right to do. Dr. Paul gets it.
Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition, http://www.amazon.com/Most-Dangerous-Superstition-Larken-Ros...
Ron's speech
That's funny, that was the line that stood out to me out of everything that he said.
Did you ever see this video where Bill Richardson is asked "how can one delegate a right which they don't have"?