1 vote

SanFran to ban circumcision?

"If it passes, those caught cutting foreskins would face a fine of $1,000 and a year in prison. Only people over the age of 18 would be allowed to have their foreskins removed."

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/politics/116618063.html?1



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is there something youre not understanding?

if your religious 'law' tells you you must beat your child ever sunday - guess who's going to come in to take your child away if they were to ever learn of your practices?

now im not relaying circumcision to beating your kid, but please understand the fundamental underlying principle.

the state (or the law, the state being the enforcer of the law) will protect the child's right not to be beaten. meaning the state trumps parents. it happens all the time, just ask a state child welfare agency about it.

as for your other point, i cant prove a negative to you, and i CERTAINLY cant prove a spiritual thing to you, but if in fact as a fully realized, self thinking, enlightened adult, you DID want to circumcise yourself to heal your spiritual self, YOU WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO THAT (even within the premise of this proposed bill)

no, i get your argument

i just dont agree with it.
waiting to circumcise means that the parents are NOT in compliance with the families religious philosophy, so the government would be forcing people to raise their child in an environment NOT inline with their religion, so that options out.

as to your hypothetical, ive already listed a bunch of rituals that i find personally abhorrent, and that includes circumcision. nevertheless, they are and should be left alone because the greater danger is in the governments power to alter religion, for the "greater good", that this kind of thing gives them.

an important consequence of freedom is being able to live with things that dont suit your liking. this is one of those things.

the easiest way to get something done isnt to change the behavior; its to change the meaning of existing behavior. like a cut isnt a cut, torture isnt torture, its enhanced interrogation. war isnt war, its kinetic military action. declaring war now appare

Genesis 17:14

And an uncircumcised male child,
who is not circumcised in the flesh of his
foreskin, his life shall be cut off from his
people – he has broken My covenant.

--
Exodus 12:43-45,47-49

This is the law of the Passover: No son of a stranger is to eat of it, but any servant a man has bought for silver, when you have circumcised him, then let him eat of it. A sojourner and a hired servant does not eat of it.

All the congregation of Yisra’ĕl are to perform it. And when a stranger sojourns with you and shall perform the Passover to YaHUaH, let all his males be circumcised and then let him come near and perform it and he shall be as a native of the land. But let no uncircumcised eat of it. There is one Torah for the nativeborn and for the stranger who sojourns among you.

--
Exodus 4:24-26

And it came to be on the way, in the lodging place, that YaHUaH met him and sought to kill him. And Tsipporah took a sharp stone and cut off the foreskin of her son and threw it at Moses’ feet and said, “You are indeed a bridegroom of blood to me!” So He let him go. Then she said, “You are a bridegroom of blood,” because of the circumcision.

Genesis 34 also has a nice little circumcision story for you to read. They don't teach this stuff in Sunday school.

.

Hear, O Israel: YHUH our God YHUH one. And thou shalt love YHUH thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

So government intervention

So government intervention/interference is just great when it comes to circumcision? So then they also get to force vaccines on your children as well. Come on people, this is a private decision and we do not need more laws passed! Don't you all think we have too many laws and intrusions in our private lives?
We need less government and more personal choice.

Formerly rprevolutionist

it would be great if the people of san fran

worried about the d-heads they send to congress instead.

following their logic, does that mean my parents did not have the right to make me a slave to social security?

"The two weakest arguments for any issue on the House floor are moral and constitutional"
Ron Paul

WAH!! WAH !!

My baby need his diaper changed. Help me raise my baby .

OH, by the way, my side walk needs shoveled off today .
No one that I am going to provide healthcare for, gave a crap. They didn't show up to help share my burden.

The same thinking that leads

The same thinking that leads people insist that circumcision should be banned is the same sort that want government mandated vaccines, government mandated nutrition and all the rest of that Big Government BS. Parents are in best position to know what's best for their children and what religious upbringing they should have. Although parents can a do fail at their responsibilities, the notion that circumcision constitutes abuse is absurd. It's a religious marking similar to a tattoo or a piercing, besides it helps you last longer and I'm not making that up!

You are not right about that last piece there buddy

First off- How bizarre, you can perform an abortion but not a circumcision.

Secondly- Yeah, I think the AMA got it right on this one- (sarcasm) "hmmm what is that thing, I don't know let's cut it off to prevent masturbation..... hmmm, it's dirty, we should definitely cut it off then."

Let's look at what we know shall we...

1) Protection: Cutting the foreskin off the penis is like cutting eyelids off our eyes. The foreskin protects the glans and keeps its surface soft, moist and sensitive. It also maintains optimal warmth, pH balance, and cleanliness.
The glans itself containing sebaceous glands- glands that produce the sebum or oil, that moisturizes our skin. The foreskin produces the sebum that maintains proper health of the surface of the glans.

2) Immunological Defenses: The mucous membranes that line all body orifices are the body's first line of immunological defense. Glands in the foreskin produce antibacterial and antiviral proteins, such as, lysozyme. Lysozyme is also found in tears and breast milk. Specialized epithelial Langerhans cells, an immune system component. Plasma cells abound in the foreskin's outer surface mucosal secrete immunoglobulins, antibodies that defend against infection.

3) Erogenous sensitivity: The foreskin is as sensitive as the fingertips or the lips of the mouth. It contains a richer variety and greater concentration of specialized nerve receptors than any other part of the penis. These specialized nerve endings can discern motion, subtle changes in temp, and fine gradations of texture. (let's just say we can tell if your faking it)

4) Sexual functions during intercourse: A foreskin's function is to facilitate smooth, gentle movement between mucosal surfaces of two partners during intercourse. It enables the penis to slip in and out of the vagina non-abrasively inside it's own self-lubricating moveable skin. The female is thus stimulated through moving pressure rather than friction- as in male's without foreskin.

The foreskin fosters intimacy between the two by enveloping the glans and maintaining it as an internal organ. The sexual experience is enhanced when the foreskin slips back to allow the glans to meet the females internal organ, the cervix-A, in a moment of supreme intimacy and beauty.

5) Property rights?: Sexual motilation on male infants can be considered a human rights issue. It violates the infants rights to have his body intact at birth. The law in most parts of the world already recognize that it is wrong to mutilate infant females. So I ask why the double standard?

Finally- If it is your religion that compels you to circumcise your son- then fine chop away. However, if you are moving away from organized religion and are unsure of what is the right decision, then at least look at it's function and then make a decision.

Furthermore- Enwo, sure it's very sensitive down there for uncircumcised men, but I assure you that the strength of your pubeococcygeal muscles are most responsible for pre-ejaculation or even going longer- the weaker your pelvic floor, well... sucks for you (not you specifically but men with weak pelvic floors).

One more question- what about the trauma? Is it like fishing- they supposedly feel no pain either?

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.

The last line made me laugh

"Honey, let's circumcise little Johnny. It may help him last longer when he grows up!"

Maybe THAT'S the reason my parents had me circumcised ;)

Heterosexual woman...

Have a lesser chance of contracting bacterial diseases if their partners are circumsised, I guess being in San Francisco there is a lesser chance of a heterosexual woman getting infected, is that what I am getting from this, especially since most folks in that area are Gay? Just asking.

After going to bathroom..

You need to cut off you hands to prevent the potential spread of disease. Or you could wash them of course.

Hetrosexual women who have

Hetrosexual women who have sex with infants?

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

please provide proof for your

please provide proof for your baseless claim, sorry, personal hygiene cannot be replaced with surgery, if you think so then have your arms cut off so your armpits won't trap bacteria.. Or just take a shower....

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato

air out those true colors

air out those true colors darlin. have you ever been to san fran? calling the majority of its 3/4million population gay is as laughable as it is deplorable. your prejudices are laid bare in your own words. alas again your point is a bit off topuc.

Why is it deplorable to call

Why is it deplorable to call a straight person 'gay'? Is it deplorable to get a gay persons orientation wrong by calling them 'straight'?

I think the poster was making a poor attempt at humor. Still, getting the ratio of gay to straight people wrong in a particular area maybe laughable... but deplorable?

its an underlying assumption

that 'most everyone in san francisco is gay'. humor or not i stand by it.

I'm circumcised

Don't really know if there was a real point to it, but I certainly don't feel like an abuse victim because of it.

Zeitgeist

Why don't you try watching parts 1 and 2 of Zeitgeist moving forward and see how you might not be able to assess or may not be aware of the sort of genetic changes that could have happened as a result of this procedure. Especially during the early formative years for which few have cognitive memories.

I can remember it vividly. It

I can remember it vividly. It was horrible I tell you! I cried and cried and cried... I'm not fully sure of the lasting effects of this "Abuse", but I do know that something strange started to occur right around puberty. I became more aware of this element of my anatomy, and quite literally obsessed with it for much of my teen years. Are these connected in some way?

for a government to

outlaw circumcision, it must insert itself between people and their god, does that strike anyone here as being fair? the alternative might not seem fair either, but that doesnt make the intervention moral.

these are decisions that families need to make on their own, and for parents to ultimately justify to their sons.

the easiest way to get something done isnt to change the behavior; its to change the meaning of existing behavior. like a cut isnt a cut, torture isnt torture, its enhanced interrogation. war isnt war, its kinetic military action. declaring war now appare

Outlawed?

It will be perfectly legal when you become 18 and are responsible for making that decision on yourself without coercion.

The rule is...

Always follow the money. Or, in this case...

"Who's got skin in the game?"

Circumcision is the EXACT same issue as ABORTION

Do you believe in personal liberty?

Can your fears over one philosophy/set-beliefs govern the lives of an innocent?
---My body so I can have the abortion
---My childs body is my property so I can cut them up

Fascists govern people outside of their group
Communists govern people witin their group

Both are regulators -- they both force their misery.

Abortionists are Communists
Circumcisors are Fascists

If you do then NO PARENT or DOCTOR should be allowed to torture or kill the born or un-born.

There is no logical reason for it and LAW is built on logic and rights of the individual (free society) and not on the whim of the union-collective (religious).

If SanFran blocks circumcision then that's "local" politics.
---Just as Ron Paul wants (localism)

Jews and Christians will have to go to their religious version of tattoo/piercing shops outside of the city to corrupt the bodies of the innocent.

As a heterosexual woman...

I will not sleep with a man who is not circumsised, and yes I am a christian, but it has nothing to do with my faith, it is about cleanliness. If a male choses not to be circumsised that is his choice, or his parents when he is born, and I for one will not force someone to do something they do not want to do, this is a far cry from abortion, with abortion there is another human living being involved, and I think that is a point that all these pro-choicers are missing. As a Mother I felt my children when conceived to be living beings, maybe I am wrong, but I was willing to give my life for them as a parent, I guess some people are not willing to do the same, sad in my mind to think that. Some people do not want children, but they want to have sex, which often times causes the effect of pregnancy, what does that tell all of you. Sex is great, but sometimes minor things happen, hmmm...sounds to me like our society does not want to deal with reality, nor responsibiltiy for their actions. Am I right? or am I am wrong, you all tell me.

Brainwashed..

by the zionist propaganda machine. Only in USrael!

Hot topic

Ignorance is bliss

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.

I'm against abortion as well (for the same reason)

Who you have sex with is no concern of the baby.

There's a reason this is done to babies -- any older age would reveal the cruelty of the act; the screaming and waling.

There is ZERO cleanliness issue. If the man bathes and you are not having random sex there is ZERO problem.

Cutting the foreskin was a way to eliminate "joy" -- same as clitorectomy. Well it's less severe but still mutilation.

go cut off your clitoris and

go cut off your clitoris and come back talking about not having sex with someone who is surgically altered.

there is a massive amount of nerve endings in the foreskin and yeah, you can cut it off and be "better in bed" due to general numbness (instead of self control), but really, would you want to cut off your pleasure point for any reason?

before you go telling people to chop parts of their body off, at least understand the entirety of what you are requesting (some how I bet you don't)

“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato

Exact. Really?

Really? The exact same argument? THE EXACT SAME?

The issue of abortion is NOT whether a woman has control over her body (she does). It is whether the fetus us a life or not. All abortion arguments that hinge in the first comment fall flat on their face when you raise the second argument.

The foreskin was not and will not ever be a life unto itself. You're really stretching here (no pun intended) so I'd knock off the hyperbole.

I can understand how you might feel like it is mutilation. The vast majority of circumcised people do not feel mutilated. So there seems to be an issue with your claim. For those who do feel mutilated, is this any different than a parent choosing to get their kid's tonsils out? Maybe they wanted to keep the tonsils? Too bad dammit, it is the parents' choice. The government needs to stay the hell out of this.

Pottawattamie County Iowa

"Capitalism should not be condemned, since we haven't had capitalism." -Dr. Ron Paul