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Would You Opt Out? A Question for the DP Community

A question was posed in another thread...

If the governments were to refund EVERY tax cent they have taken from you over your lifetime with interest earned would you opt out of all public services?

No use of public roads was one of the conditions, maybe you could pay some sort of usage fee to get where you were going I suppose. Christopher McCandless rode his Kayak down the Colorado all the way to the Gulf of California.

Have fun with this, would you opt out and take the refund?



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Forget the back taxes,

just let me out of the system - period.

The Oracle Weighs In....

Yes. I "opted out" and guess what the road is still there! And I can still use it.

If everyone opts out of U.S. citizenship and liquidates their share of the Ces te que Trust then everything we put into the trust will simply be divided up among us and privatized.

Here are some other opt out option scenarios:

First take all of the outstanding public debt (644 trillion) and divide it among the 309 individual trusts that comprise the Ces te que Trust (U.S. citizenships) then you can calculate the amount of your complete government liquidation sale "refund". Seriously do The Math! The answer will surprise you.

Now if you like we can deduct out some of those shares and put your share of the roads back into a road company and charge any entity using the roads for commercial purposes a tax to pay for the roads. Everyone else will be able to use the roads freely for ordinary travel. Any profit will be returned to the shareholders yearly.

Now if you like we can keep The Navy and Air Force as standing military defenses, close say 80% of all foreign bases, end all Wars, bring the Army home and simply end all firearms restrictions so that every man between 18 and 65 can protect the Nation like we did prior to the current Civil War Martial Law Occupation.

Now if you like we could deduct out a few of your shares and invest them in a National Forest
And National Park corporation. All the remaining federal lands not included in the National Park or Forest system would of course be sold and your share of the proceeds sent to you.

If you like we can do all these things and you can still get your house, car, personal possessions, student loans, etc. paid off in full and you will have about a million and a half in assets left over.

Plus no taxes of any kind for gasoline, schools, income, Social Security, property tax.

So then why don't we do this?
Because The Ruling Oligarchy doesn't want us to have what is ours. They are enjoying using our "borrowed" property way too much to just "give it back".
We cannot ever get organized to do this.

Getting "we" to opt out is too insurmountable. Getting you to Opt Out is easy. Just contact me, I'll show you how to do exactly what I have done.

Keep the above items in "the public trust" and privatize your share of the rest back to yourself.
You have all the tools you need to do this at your fingertips right now, what are you waiting for?

So Opt Out of all unnecessary "government services" , keep the legitimate ones, then liquidate the rest and get a refund. You can do this today.

The Oracle

Opting out - you say it can be done today and to contact you...

YES I want to;
YES I would do it today if only I were sure of what I were doing;
YES I am desperately trying to contact you, and I'm afraid to close this window because I'm not sure how I'll ever see if you've responded. I have two other notes on this forum - one is under a topic that I started, I think it was titled "Does Sovereign status = opting out of U.S. Corp.? And does opting out = Becoming a member of the Republic of your state? - something like that. I am desperate as the time grows shorter with each passing day, and I have had NO LUCK in establishing meaningful contact with ANYONE who has a website wherein they profess some level of expertise in this seemingly gargantuan and complex change of status which, in the end, is probably quite simple in essence. Legal language is not new to me, nor is in depth research - and my heart is most definitely in the right place. Please reply back as soon as you can. I'd like to know:

1) How to do it from the mouth of one who has actually done it; and
2) How does this impact an impending court matter in family division?

From this point, I will begin holding my breath hoping that you will respond. Thank you so very much for any time and consideration that you give to my most urgent request.

Private Discussion Check Your E-Mail

I emailed you already.

Please reply re steps to opt out

I've been up day and night looking into all of this. In fact, I've seen this website before but joined SPECIFICALLY to see if you would please contact me back with insights as to the steps involved and how long the process takes. I have a sincere interest in all of this on behalf of my family. Also, a very, very urgent and pressing matter has landed on us shortly after I'd first seen anything about the difference between "citizen" and "resident" and how that factors in within the confines of the court room. In our case, someone seeks custody of our youngest daughter - an absolute psychopath - but so far the judge seems as though she is intent upon handing her over as soon as she figures out how to do that, and the first hearing is scheduled toward the end of this month. Unfortunately, up to this point in time I remain unable to establish contact with anyone who is willing/able to share specifics. You sound as though you may be one would can...and I noticed your offer to someone else posting a reply to some question or another on this forum that you would be willing to guide them. That is all that I ask. In the post where you offered your guidance, that particular individual presented as though they'd not taken the time to do their own homework, and you stressed to them that it was imperative upon them to do so, as the paperwork would be meaningless if they were unable to argue their status if/when those moments requiring clarification arose. PLEASE, please, please write me back. Thank you so very much.

reedr3v's picture

I've alread opted out of "voluntary"

programs such as using (though forced to pay for) the medicare system, s.s., the public school system since I homeschooled my kids, etc. I look forward to more options becoming voluntary so I can opt out of those too. And even more I look forward to an end of coerced taxes and government agency monopolies so there will be lots of options providing good services instead of the terrible federal programs we must endure.

Answer: Does a bear shit in

Answer: Does a bear shit in the woods?

"It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere".
--Voltaire

It's hard not to be a menace to society when half the population is happy on their knees. - unknown

Yes.

I'll be opting out of Medicare by moving to Ecuador. Fortunately medical services cost less there.

New Hampshire and Ecuador.

yeah no kidding..while living

yeah no kidding..while living in Belize, my daughter had a bicylce accident and broke her elbow..I could have went to the government hospital which would have cost a quarter donation...but I chose instead to go to a private hospital..the charge for xray, cast and follow up for removal was a grand total of $15...that is less than my copay in the US of $20...

"and the truth shall make you free"
John 8:32

I've Been Wanting Out Since 1973

I would have opted out then, when I hadn't paid any in, because I knew the day would come when I wouldn't get anything back.

I'd opt out today (at age 55) if I could never pay another cent going forward, and cut my losses for all the wealth I've paid them to waste.

I don't have any problem with a gasoline "fee" used exclusively for road maintenance.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

Already have. I live in

Already have.

I live in Japan. I don't receive any handouts from either government. I also will not receive anything when I'm old other than what I save.

Bigsurjune

How are you doing? Let us all know you're ok.

Sure

I don't need no stinking government "services"

If they didn't take my money I could easily take care of my retirement and healthcare without SS or medicare.

Roads are already paid for with usage fees (ie gas tax)

Fire departments used to be privately owned, no reason they couldn't be again.

Private schools are better and less expensive.

Most of the so called 'governement services" are now or can be done privately for better and cheaper.

How are private schools

How are private schools better and less expensive? At the post-secondary level, public schools offer equal or better education (not contacts or prestige, but education) for a much, much cheaper price. At the secondary level and before, there are a lot of private schools (like religious private schools) that are costly imitators of public schools, and the elite private schools that stand out are usually exceptionally expensive.

In fact, generally the best education seems to be homeschooling. Because education is so much more dependent on the parent (with homeschooling parents tending to be the most obsessive (in a good way!)) than the school!

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Bill Maher made a good point

Bill Maher made a good point on his show recently. He remarked how ever since Reagan, they have funded infrastructure through things like the gas tax. So when Reagan wanted to improve the roads, he increased the gas tax. Bush I the docks, the gas tax. Clinton the tobacco tax to fund clean air, etc. But Bush II and Obama have increased infrastructure spending, without increasing the gas tax.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Exactly right, Liberty.

You summed it up nicely.

But there are those who say "what about our military?"

But I say a military used to defend our borders and shores - not police the world - would easily be funded with taxes we have in place right now.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

The government has nothing it hasn't stolen...

...therefore, the roads do not really belong to them. And in many cases in many places, the government does not actually own the land that is 'the roads'. In those places, the government only claims a right of way for itself on the land of others.

And that's just one reason why the scenario of getting the money stolen from you by the government back in exchange for not using __X__ is flawed. The scenario makes the presumption that the government actually owns something that should belong to it. It doesn't. Everything the government controls it has stolen or has acquired with stolen money.

Opting out with a caveat

I'd opt out.
I'd even let them keep all of my earnings they have stolen from my over the years.

I'd pay the current usage fee system to use their roadways (Federal and State Road Fuel Tax).

Considering it is as "Pay As You Go" as one can get, I would accept that. If enterprising individuals would privatize roadways, I would always consider that.

In return, I would never ask for Federal Assistance in any other manner, nor would I expect to pay for the Federal Assistance of the Jihadis in Libya, for example.

I like a user fee (or tax) because it's paid voluntarily.

To answer your question directly I would say yes except your question poses one major problem.

Anyone who has had any type of public education has already used that service so if the government were to pay you back every cent then, they used that service free.

Since you can't "undo" a public education (or any other public service you have already used), your scenario can't work.

But let's say you want out of services (like Socialist Security, Medicare, Medicaid etc) which you haven't used yet.

I think you should be able to opt-out (WITH A REFUND) and then agree to never go to the government for any help.

I'm all in then.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul

"Public education" is not a service.

Training children to slavishly obey "authority" is not a valuable service. It is more like deliberate mutilation of a child's mind. If someone forcibly stole one of your children and cut off his legs so he could become a high-producing beggar, do you think you should pay money to the comprachicos for their "services?" Compulsory education laws are forcible child-stealing. And crippled minds are worse than crippled legs.

Recommended reading: The Most Dangerous Superstition by Larken Rose

I don't mind paying some taxes

I would not opt out of taxes all together and approve of some of the uses of my tax money. If my house is on fire, I want the FD to come. I don't mind having nice roads to use. I like my local parks service (although most of that is paid for with gaming revenue). I don't mind paying the payroll for my elected officials and other city servants.

I would not opt out of local taxes.

Federal taxes on the other hand? That's a different story. I'll opt out of Social Security, Medicare, Medicade and all that other non-sense if they'd quit taking my federal income tax.

Can we figure out

Just how many tax 'cents' we're talking about? From all the taxes, from all the government entities for all the types and for an average person, what exactly is their total lifetime tax? Assuming the average person makes $40k/yr which is really the average here in the midwest. We should at least split it into Federal and State/Local/other so we can get an idea of how much return we're getting for our money.

When you say "every tax cent"

When you say "every tax cent" are you referring to every income tax sent or quite literally every tax cent regardless of the type of tax it was?

EVERY damn cent.

Every tax.

Then I'm in too...

Private enterprise would certainly find a way that was cheaper, if we gave them the chance. And that would be quite a bit of interest.

"Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern." ~~C.S. Lewis
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Yes...but

I'd happily continue to pay the gasoline tax if the roads can be maintained.

The fact that we have such nice interstate freeways is about the only thing I can thank the Feds for since about 1815. They've pretty much dropped the ball on everything else they've tried.

I'll let you in on a little secret...

a person can live without a government! It's true! Yep, it might be a little like the wild west, but it is possible. But don't worry, we'll never have to worry about that situation - I'm afraid government is here to stay. : (

Without a doubt !

As far as roads go it is your right to travel as a 13th amendment sovereign citizen which is what you are talking about. "Reclaim your Sovereignty" by David E Robinson can help you achieve this goal.

The point is moot

They will still debase the currency you are forced to use for all transactions - the dollar. Dr. Paul calls this the "inflation tax".

In fact, if opting-out were allowed, so many would choose it that the printing presses would have to go into overdrive.

Let's face it, what REAL services do the Federal Gov provide to the average taxpayer - almost NOTHING! They just give all that money away to the various cartels: Military-Industrial Complex, Energy, Education and Healthcare, etc. They are the beneficiaries, not J6Pk.

I tried to - with one condition...

About a year ago I made the (communistic) Social Security Administration a great offer.

I was 52 years old and wrote to them asking to opt-out, but they would have to repay me all of the nearly $80,000 I've paid in.

The condition was that after sending me back all I had paid in (WITHOUT INTEREST!) they would cease taking out any further deductions but they would owe me nothing from then on.

So they would have used my money for free for the last 37 years I've been working and paying into this corrupt system.

They wrote back with a short answer; I was not allowed to do that - end of story.

So there is no opt-out option.

They have designed a system based on the idea of the majority of people dying before ever collecting.

It's pure robbery.

"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul