35 votes

New DP participants may need some time.....

I have noticed a trend lately and I don't know whether anyone else has as well.

There seem to be many new participants in our forum who are taken aback by what they find here. It is quite possible that many are "trolls", especially since there is a growing hysteria on the right that the libertarian faction is "taking over the party"... Therefore the idea that DP would suddenly become infiltrated in large numbers by "troublemakers" makes sense.

BUT, there is another possibility (and it is probably a combination of the two), and that is that some of these new people are "conservatives" that are starting to have doubts about many of the old policies. They catch an interview with Dr Paul and suddenly think they have found their new "Reagan". They are starting to think of themselves as libertarian in many specific AREAS, but they haven't yet figured out that the philosophy of freedom encompasses ALL areas - financial - personal - foreign policy - drugs, etc.

So they come here thinking that they have the philosophy and are ready to join a group of "like minded" people. Then they get here, and the philosophy, when carried through to areas that are "hot buttons" for them is STARTLING. They become emotional and hang on tight to their own preconceived ideas.... and try to show us where we are going wrong. They have been "taught" for so long that, for example.... anyone who is against the middle east wars is a LIBERAL. So when they see ANY wording against the wars they cannot make sense of it in light of some of the other topics that they agree with. They lose their bearings and fight to hang on to something familiar.. and to those of us who have been here a while, their statements are startling and unexpected.

I say this because I have an aunt who recently told me that she took a "test" in a magazine and it showed her that she is DEFINITELY libertarian. Now, I know for a fact that she is absolutely clueless about what that means when carried to it's logical conclusion in ALL areas. She hasn't thought about foreign policy in this light, or the drug war, or same sex marriage, or ANY of the multitudinous issues we discuss. She would fall over in a dead faint, and then run for the hills when she revived if she jumped onto DP right now. This is because RUSH has told her for so long that anyone who talks about the issues as we do must be a Liberal Democrat..... there is no other option.

I guess my point is that with new people getting "on board" we need to try to remember where they are coming from, and realize that they may not have thought the whole thing out yet. They are AFRAID to let go of their old "anchors" and it will take some calm and loving discussion on our parts, in an effort to ease their fears and open their minds.

CHANGE IS SCARY. Philosophical change requires re-thinking everything you ever believed.... sometimes some moral repentence... sometimes makes you feel like a fool for having believed all the lies for so long. These are NOT comfortable feelings, so tempers flare.

Heated arguments are many times pointless. There is too much yelling and screaming going on in the world as it is. The only way to change minds is to change hearts, and that takes patience and consistency.

Let's all try to engage in knowledgeable discussion, and explain the logic and philosophical reasons for our outlook without sharing in the SAME fear of newcomers that they have of us. As someone here once said.... it's a big sandwich, and sometimes people can only take one bite at a time.



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One of the best posts I have read in quite a while

Thank you elviejo for the time and thought you have put into this post.Self reflection is one of the most important messages that can ever be stressed.

We must also try to deviate from actions that appear to be judgemental as to who deserves to support Ron Paul and his message of freedom.To start judging who is worthy or not, will in the end hurt Ron Paul himself.

I have not visited for awhile because of this underlying theme of judgement, but had to chime in on how important the message that elviejo is expressing really is for Ron Paul's chances in the up coming election if he decides to run.

Thank you and please remember how important it is to take a few minutes a day and self reflect.Then understand the actions and reactions that come from your direction of thought.

ATruepatriot

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

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I am new to the DP forums but

I am new to the DP forums but have shared the same philosophical values as Ron before I knew about him.

This is a great article, and hits right to the point. Sometimes when I talk politics with other republicans, they label me as a liberal for some of my libertarian views. I calmly try to explain to them rationally my point of view, backing it up with philosophical points, and logic.

The first time I saw Dr. Paul was on youtube about a year ago. :( I know, I can't be cool and say otherwise, but his views were intact with my own! So, it was exciting and refreshing.

I hope to share my own thoughts, and learn more about the movement with other like minded people. Some times though, I have been attacked for my views on this website on energy.
:( So employing the "drop anchor" technique is imperative.

Governments will never solve our problems, only people can.

"The economy's not a class you can master in college. To think otherwise is the pretense of knowledge."

Welcome

always nice to have new people with different perspectives on issues.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

Can you imagine

stepping into the DP community, as big as it is now, knowing what you knew back then, and ...

...with the comment ratings system in place to boot!

Defend Liberty!

This thread should be placed

This thread should be placed on the front page of the Daily Paul for the entire next election cycle. I'm absolutely serious about that.

Excellent point! I can remember...

...a discussion when I first started at DP about "your favorite President". At the time... not knowing any better... I thought...How could it be anyone other than Abe Lincoln?

I have learned a great deal since.

So I'm willing to be patient. I do understand.

And that's just one of many issues

It takes a little while from the moment the brushfire of liberty is being kindled to sanitizing all the crap we've been taught.

There's even a visceral reaction that's been pounded into us against questioning these things and we'll cause people to ball up in a tunnel of stress if we hit them with it all at once.

Milk before meat.

Defend Liberty!

I know, I know...

now wasn't learning that stuff a kick in the pants? Now I can't wait to tell people why I HATE Abraham the Racist tool.

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

ron_paul-bot_12413's picture

Well said elvejo.....

......and thank you for the thoughtful insight. You have brought up a very important issue and I can't express how much I appreciate you posting this! Thank you!

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."

-George Washington

BUMP

for Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People

Remember compassion

My experience is that people all walk their paths and the ones who are walking towards the Daily Paul should be acknowledged and respected for their points of view. Its not really the right and wrong of our views, rather that we respect others in their views and continue to peacefully pursuade people to the wisdom of liberty.

not just on the war in iraq

but on their support for union excesses (disguised as "concern" for the little guy), welfare spending, taxes on the "rich" etc. I think that their lack of knowledge on the economics of liberty is in many cases in dire need of further "awakening".

- a newer dp member and a classical liberal.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself." - Thomas Jefferson

Third possibility.

Libertarian AND troublemaker.

My favorite people in the world: Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Peter Schiff, Judge Napolitano, Milton Friedman, Bob Barr, and John Stossel

Agree, but don't forget

We also can learn from the newcomers. New ideas, new perspectives, new strategies...

I agree

This is something our movement need to work on. Many here are all-or-nothing people, and they're quick to insult anyone who questions their deeply held beliefs.

If we are ever going to really win, this has to change. We have to allow discussion, and allow for compromise to serve our long term goals.

Very few of us can disagree that something needs to be done soon to whittle this beaurocracy down to something sustainable. Very few of us want our dollar to be worth a stable amount and want not to be taxed on our income. Very few of us want to stop the pay-for-everyone health care train that is getting rammed at us. Very few of us want to continue occupying 100 foreign countries in the name of defense.

These are the things that unite us. Probably a few more...but those are some of the core values that define us.

I probably am one of the few here who doesn't believe that our government is evil. You may believe that, but I don't. Some of the people in DC are...but for the most part I believe the government to be simply terriblt inept and inefficient. I believe they promise things with good intentions, but they are simply by nature very bad at what they do.

I don't blame the ones who made promises they could never keep. I blame Americans who haven't cared enough to notice.

If this movement is going to move mainstream, it's going to have to allow more people like myself who love high fructose corn syrup and the polio vaccine. You're going to have to walk in lock step with someone someday who has views that make your blood boil yet you must remember to keep your eyes on what unites you.

reedr3v's picture

I hope we can be welcoming and keep

our principles at the same time. Your sad love of fructose and vaccines are not items we need to argue over, so long as you can support my wish to have no legislation restricting my food and health choices.
Our role when we disagree is to educate for peace and freedom, not to demand any narrow compliance. It is important to ask consideration in return, that we be allowed the same tolerance and freedom we extend to others.
so long as coercion is not in the mix, we can learn and gain a lot by exchanging ideas and coming up with ways each peaceful individual can enjoy fulfillment.

You can't eat debating points

I've been trying to "awaken" believers in the left/right paradigm for 20+ years. And for all my efforts, I may have convinced maybe 5 or so (which is fine).

But given the past few years (w TARP, the wars, and all), one must be quite delusional to still believe in it.

So I now consider such attempts to be a waste of valuable time - time better spent by preparing for the inevitable collapse of this "society" (e.g. planting a garden, learning to shoot, dress game, etc.). You can't eat debating points, no matter how eloquent.

I've noticed a lot of new trolls here lately

most want to try and tell us what is relevant and irrelevant to post on DP after only being here for a few weeks, days and sometimes hours. for them i offer "tough love".

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Rand Paul 2016

I have found the DP people to

I have found the DP people to be not only inviting to newcomers but to welcome friendly debate with some who may have differences of opinion. I think some of the recent troll bashing was due to certain individuals (or bots) making their debut with grandiose OPs about the joys of socialism and if Ron Paul and Lew Rockwell are with them on their collectivist convictions why aren't we. I think we have to draw the line somewhere. Many here have bent over backwards to give reasoned explanations about the positions of liberty, individual rights and responsibilities even to the trolls. I actually think the recent trolls got off rather lightly and were treated fine. I'd like to see what would happen if they spouted off with the same nonsense over at Reason.

I am sure that the truly recently inducted are not flamers, trolls, or bots and are likely to lurk the site for a time until they are compelled to post and will be heartily welcomed. The really divisive and unsavory threads were posted and bumped up by the trolls themselves.

Conspiracy Theory

Usually such talk is flame bait but I'm going to say it anyway. Before people attack me remember the nature of the post above.....

I'm not a truther, I don't think chem trails are a program by the NWO to kill us all, and I'm not a birther. I admit there is a chance I'm wrong...

I enjoy watching the films and other material on such conspiracy theories but have come back after analysis of them and think they aren't likely to be true.

I respect the right of people who come to a different conclusion to share the information/evidence they accumulate. I don't think your "crazy".

I should say I believe in somethings considered conspiracy theories like the US pretty much orchestrating most/all recent wars we've been in. I think the Federal reserve is downright evil (Creature from Jekyll Island is probably mostly right).

I should remind the audience Paul is closer in-line to me on these issues then those who are more extreme on the aforementioned conspiracy theories unless you think he's just keeping quite and lying to avoid more marginalization.

Quite often when people like me express these opinions they get jumped on and called a troll, plant, etc. Personally I just stay away from the topics all together but I see people getting jumped on all the time in the posts. I think it scares away newbies...

I agree.

There is a very large number of people on this site than for some reason think that to be a genuine Ron Paul supporter that you have to be a 9/11 Inside Jobber or Chemtrailer, even though Dr. Paul doesn't hold those views.

And what's funny is that they're so wrapped up in conspiracy theory, that they think if you challenge their bizarre beliefs, then you're an agent sent by the elites trying to throw other users off the trail. It's hilarious.

My favorite people in the world: Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Peter Schiff, Judge Napolitano, Milton Friedman, Bob Barr, and John Stossel

LOL!

What's a matter you? Feeling some pain and pressure from those "Bizarre" beliefs?

Or is it kinda frustrating for you, that you can't turn them? huh? Kinda frustrating how no matter how many times you see them attacked by those nasty trolls under the bridge calling them things like "bizarre" and "crazy", they re-don their Gadsden, turn and spit in your face while sounding the charge right up the middle of your defenses, as they scream the same exhortation in the hopes of saving their fellow citizens and YOU from the pain and suffering from yet another Cabal run false flag terrorist attack. This along with hoping to forgo the resulting murder and oppression of brown people that speak a different language and have something that the perpetrators want control of?

Then it really sucks that some people actually understand the Laws of Thermodynamics and Conservation of Momentum or the nature of structural steel. They are the real crazy's and the hardest to turn. Ya know, I think the trolls should get paid more when em battling someone who has actually done research as opposed to your run of the mill wacko sound-biting youtube watcher. Freakin' home-schoolers...they're the worst...independent thinking bastards that they are.

What's so funny is that if one expounds upon these beliefs then those wrapped up in doing anything for money will sit and type propaganda and dispersion, no matter how intellectually dishonest, no matter how their lies affect their fellow citizens, or whether their efforts deter others from reaching the truth, all while serving to underlie the existing power structure under globalist control.

That so many of them are wearing uniforms that I paid for is hilarious and now that they have new fangled software we will see a lot more of them...or didn't you get the memo? Hilarious huh? Kinda hard to "Imagine"? Right Sarge?

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

Very true, but chemtrails are

Good points, but chemtrails are very real. I understand that's hard to come to terms with.

|^^^^^^^^^^^\||____ San Luis Obispo, CA
| RON PAUL 2012 |||""'|""\___,
| _____________ l||__|__|__|); Freedom 101
|(@)@)"""""""**|(@)(@)**|(@)

Naaaa...you're crazy...

the sky's here in Maryland are blue everyday and contrails still disappear within 10 plane lengths of being laid down...just like they did for the first 45 years of my life.

Those white streaks in the sky are new evolutionary clouds called Cumuli Planus...get used to them. Then take a hike up Mt. Shasta, get a big bucket of snow, melt it and place it in the Congressional water cooler.

Luv ya man! Keep up the good work!

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

Ummmm...

There is much more evidence of the Cabal than Youtube's with an AC/DC soundtrack. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater until you have done some serious research.

I'll admit that there is much more than a "chance" you are wrong.

But still, it's good to have you here and I'd simply ask you to look to the things that you are already "willing' to accept as "Conspiracy Theories" and delve deeper. Ask the tough questions like why and who. Look to the results of things...the tentacles leading to them will inevitably become visible if you are honest with yourself and diligent in your research.

I can't tell you how many times I cussed out the "crazies" expounding on an inside job back in 2003. No way. Couldn't be. Nuh uh.

I no longer ascribe to the "symphony of mistakes" and "They are all idiots in Washington" memes. You might want to rethink them yourself. I think that Gerald Celente is probably right on the money when he says that we are in the beginning stages of "Off With Their Heads 2.0".

It's OK. Many of us took our sweet time in coming around. If you are here, you are on the right path.

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

great post. and everyone

great post. and everyone should practice kindness, even to those who may be obvious "trolls". but remember what brought you here. mainly those realizations that come from studying the operations of the federal reserve. to "conservatives", we can't have exhausting wars without it. to "liberals", if you're going to protest the war in more than a shallow way, remember, without the fed or irs, there would be no war.

Agreed. Please don't insult people having a different opinion.

We need to use patience, logic and truth to sway people. Either they truly listen and figure it out, or they don't. "You can lead people to knowledge, but you can't make them think." ( To paraphrase an old adage ).

You cannot be reasonable with army spam-bots!

Listen, you cannot have a reasonable discussion with army spam-bots! Or at the moment, living spam-bots waiting to be outsourced by programs. Those folks are particularly irritable!!

No, army spam-bots serve but one purpose: to brainwash readers into making sweet love to John McCain. If they cannot succeed in that, then they sow disease and discord among their critics until the whole edifice crashes down, killing everyone, including themselves, within!

Such is the daily task of an army spam-bot. I wouldn't sign up for four years of that crap for even a $100,000 college grant/bribe!

"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"

Hey! Some of my best friends are spam-bots!

Are you discriminating against personalities without corporeal substance?