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BitCoins - new digital decentralized crypto currency

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Hot girl + Bitcoin = win

Hot girl + Bitcoin = win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LaSrxtWfgc)

Haha...

she said, "in the end, money is trust in the system".

Throughout history when fake money collapses, people, especially the rich ones, transition into commodities (such as gold, etc) and artwork.

Austrian(Ron Paul) says hard/sound/real money IS commodities. The thing people run to when fake money "crashes due to loss of trust" (like bitcoin did).

*shrugs*

B)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

There was a loss of trust in

There was a loss of trust in Bitcoin? The same Bitcoins trading at $16.8 a pop right now?

Please stop trolling.

Wow...

Bitcons have a price! Whew.. everything is ok now. :p

See the DPO graph here:

http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#rg360zvzcvztgSzm1g1...

Notice the Matterhorn style jaggies of the last two months that represent the overbought signal (not good for people buying). Notice the levels.. 20+. This is extreme even for historically extreme bubbles.

Next notice the freefall dive into the oversold depths (oversold is bad for those dumping bitcoins... the Matterhorn jaggies was an orgy for pump-and-dumpers cashing in)

Thirdly, notice again the tragic freefall to the depths to below the zero line into the oversold territory which is the DPO Exit signal.

The DPO is begging for you to not trade in bitcoins anymore.

But don't let charts/data bother you too much. If you duct-tape a long conical tube onto the head of a horse it WILL turn into a unicorn and grant you three magical wishes.

Also, don't pay any attention to the Accumulation/Distribution ratio of 4-to-1 (which pretty much makes bitcoin useless as a viable currency).

Beanie babies had a high value for a long time. And the prices mostly stabilized for a while after the crash before descending into nothingness. Beanie babies wouldn't make good money either. Although they have more intrinsic value than bitcons.

But I digress...

:p

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Bitcoins are an entrepreneurial finding of a market

Bitcoins are an entrepreneurial finding of a market. Someone saw a need for a digital cash that can be anonymous like cash and put it out there in the market.

Does it have problems, yes. It can be improved for sure. The attacks bitcoins have undergone have been on the edges not on the Bitcoin itself. See notes below.

The use of the Liberty Dollar and other bullion coins also shows that entrepreneurs are finding markets for an honest money alternate currency.
The government sees the threat of this and has attacked and shutdown Liberty Dollars for one.

A solution is Edwin Vieras proposal of states implementing constitutional money by doing what Utah has done and go further to provide the framework for actual use of Gold and Silver.

The important thing is to have alternates to government money of any kind. If the government money is debased to far and crashes then at least there will be working systems in place to facilitate trade.

Also a comment on objections to the fact that bitcoins can be used for black markets as a digital cash. If you have objections to digital cash remember that physical cash can be used for black markets also.
Reductio ad absurdium, if you think Bitcoins should not be used then the same argument can be used to outlaw cash(paper bill) transactions also.

Notes on Bitcoin attacks

A wallet was stolen using a security flaw in the way the owner stored his wallet. this was due to poor security on the users part. If you store your money by placing it in a store front window, don't be surprised when a thief hurls a brick through the window and takes it.

The second attack was an attack on a market company and the database of users of that market. Use of a market company is optional, there are several. One of the problems there was that this currency is not backed by a physical commodity to provide an independent valuation to the one market in question. An account was hacked and the bitcoins were dumped to sell which caused a plunge in the price. This will be a problem with any system based on a relatively small number of tokens and users.

The market (MtGox)and I am sure all markets are checking and improving their security.

An improvement using another layer on top of the bitcoin itself or along side the bitcoin

There is one open source project that I have seen which can address the 'backing' issue. Look at the Open Transaction project
https://github.com/FellowTraveler/Open-Transactions/wiki/

Bitcoins can be fixed...

if the "fix" is to back them by gold/silver/palladium or even a basket of more obscure commodities.

But then the Govt would shut it down with prejudice...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

weebles how much are you paid

weebles how much are you paid to troll this particular topic?

$3

:)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Awww only $3? I guess you

Awww only $3? I guess you aren't doing that good of a job and should troll harder.

I'm a ...

philanthropist :D

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Jive,I have a lot of respect

Jive,

I have a lot of respect for you, but to call Bitcoin a Fiat currency is just flat out wrong. You may not like it or want to use it but it is not a Fiat currency. It is not backed by force or the threat of force, nor is it backed by a debt-issuance. It's commodity value non-zero, non-trivial. It's commodity value may dwarf its monetary value but so what?

Gold's commodity value is around $300, give or take, yet it trades as a currency at $1508 as I write this. It may shoot, and many of us believe it will shoot, to over $10000, but the commodity value of it will not have changed much.

It is backed by the strength of the network of users which is, ultimately, no different than the market value for gold relative to its commodity value.

For Bitcoin to be successful the strength of that network, which is its value-proposition, is paramount. I remain unconvinced on that front, but i don't think bitcoin is a scam either.

My thoughts on the LRC tumult:

http://tomluongo.wordpress.com/2011/06/29/lrc-schizophrenia-...

Ta,

Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. -- H.L. Mencken

Blog: The Present in Plain Text
Listen to The Myo-Tonics on YouTube

Hmmm...

"Often called paper money, fiat money is in a wider sense any money declared to be legal tender by government fiat (ie law). In the narrower sense USED HERE, fiat money is an intrinsically useless good used as a means of payment and a storable object."
http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Fiat_money

"Fiat money is a money consisting of mere tokens which can neither be employed for any industrial purposes nor convey a claim against anybody." - Mises

“Fiat money is the term for a medium of exchange which is neither a commercial commodity, a consumer, or a producer good, nor title to any such commodity: i.e., irredeemable paper money. In contrast, commodity money refers to a medium of exchange which is either a commercial commodity or a title thereto.” - Hans-Hermann Hoppe

"it is absolutely necessary that a money originate as a commodity with direct uses" - Rothbard

Me thinks bitcoins are pure fiat... :)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

I've ventured into the BitCoin World...

I've learned a long time ago that it is easy to mock that which we don't fully understand. For some reason, despite all the negative comments, Bitcoin has captured my attention and I wanted to understand it fully. Maybe 'cuz I'm somewhat of a crypto computer geek myself.

Well, I just wanted to follow up and let you know what I've done. I've built a $2000 dollar mining rig that is mining about 1 BTC per day. The competition to mine has increased tremendously. The capital and resources required to mine is almost on par with the daily rates (~$17/BTC as of 6/28/2011); so, the incentive for new miners to start competing is not very high unless the rates start climbing again.

With a more sound understanding of the system, I've had the courage to dump another $3000 dollars into buying BTC. Not because I hope to turn a quick buck, but Because I want it to survive. I guess you could say I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

There's no central authority in the BITCOIN network. The rules of the game were written in the beginning and set into motion. There is no turning back now and not even the original developers can undo or change what they've started.

“I’m fully diversified. I’ve got some under the mattress, some under the floor boards, some in the backyard.”

Good luck

I hope that $3K is gambling-for-fun money.

The bitcoin does indeed have a central authority. It is impossible to have a fiat currency without a central authority. The bitcoin program is that authority. The program is multi-tasking, distributed around the web, but that is a mere implementation detail.

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

Wait a second

so that's kind of like the FED, where the members of the board and the chairman and all the people who work there go home to a different house and each their own family, so they too are decentralized, right?

Oh wait, that's not the case at all. Idiot.

No one user of the Bitcoin program can define the rules for all the rest, meaning there is no central authority. Is this stuff really that hard to grasp?

If...

If I wanted to design a system that drew a box on your computer screen of a certain color determined by how many people were displaying boxes yesterday then I have two main options:

1) client-server
2) peer-to-peer

In the client-server model each person would run the client on their computer and the client would contact the server which would send back the color instruction/code to the client determined by a formula using the number of color request from yesterday.

In the peer-to-peer model you would have each peer report a list to each other containing today's and yesterday's list, adding it's own info not in the list and then use the exact same formula as the server in the client-server model to determine today's color.

The color picking algorithm in both paradigms is still determined by a central authority... the programmer.

The idea that the color picking is a product of Glorious Rogue Anarchists independent of any central tyrant is just an illusion.

The rate of bitcoin generation is governed, controlled and regulated by a central common authority... an algorithm created by the bitcoin programmers which miners have ZERO control over.

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Dude..

you are speaking negative vibes into reality. ;(

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Bitcoin market hacked, crashes to below $0.01 per bitcoin

Bitcoin, the digital currency that some people have called "dangerous", has just had a major setback today thanks to a significant data breach.

The main Bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox, has suffered a major database breach which caused one account in particular to be completely compromised and have its funds stolen. The real implication of this was the effect it had on the Bitcoin market - this video shows the market in real time dropping to values below 1 cent in a matter of minutes as people frantically try to remove their funds. Due to the significance of this hack, the entire Bitcoin market is being reset.

http://www.neowin.net/news/bitcoin-market-crashes---drops-be...

"If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks], which has its origin in North America, should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will hav

Also...

A new trojan virus targeted at pickpocketing bitcoin "wallets":

"The Trojan is Infostealer.Coinbit and it has one motive: to locate your Bitcoin wallet.dat file and email it to the attacker," Symantec said Friday
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387194,00.asp

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Wow, and after all that,

new exchanges opened, people took their computer security more seriously and the price of bitcoins recovered and stabilized at around $17.00/BTC.

I suppose that in the end it won't be someone's opinion of how well bitcoin fits the austrian definition of real money that gives it value, instead the free market will.

Austrians

I don't know why the Austrians are stuck on this idea that sound money needs to begin as a commodity first and then it becomes a medium of exchange.

Free market money is any medium of exchange that people are willing to use.

The reason is...

the same exact reason Mises prefers gold... because of its "slow and comparatively slight movements in purchasing power".

Gold has been integrated into the markets since the dawn of history. Going back to Babylonian records. People just like the stuff and they can make bling out of it. :)

When the purchasing power of a currency is all over the map then it freezes up lending/borrowing. And without lending and borrowing then creation of new wealth (new goods and services) runs into a wall.

Every step of greater adoption of bitcoins (demand) will cause hyperactive and deflationary rises in bitcoin value followed by a crash/correction.

"Fiat money is a money consisting of mere tokens which can neither be employed for any industrial purposes nor convey a claim against anybody." - Mises

"Fiat money is money that is intrinsically useless; is used only as a medium of exchange."
http://economics.about.com/cs/economicsglossary/g/fiat_money...

Bitcoin is fiat. The big difference between fiat bitcoins and fiat money used by Govts is that the government REQUIRES that everybody begin using its fiat money exclusively and all-at-once and the purchasing power quickly settles down affording lenders/borrowers some modicum of confidence.

Basic physics. Basic math. Basic dynamics of crowds. Not rocket surgery. Just obvious observations of Nature.

Just because someone duct tapes a long conical tube on the head of a horse doesn't mean the horse is now a unicorn and will take flight and begin granting magical wishes to everybody...

:)

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Rothbard said so,

So it must be gospel, even though Rothbard, himself, would never be so dogmatic.

Semi-literate Austrians, David Kramer, Doug Casey are trying to act as gatekeepers to that which they do not want to udnerstand.

Michael Rozeff's blog today was a breath of fresh air.... it may be time for me to write another article at LRC about Bitcoin. I really didn't want to.

Ta,

Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. -- H.L. Mencken

Blog: The Present in Plain Text
Listen to The Myo-Tonics on YouTube

Moar semi-literate Austrian half-wits....

"Fiat money is a money consisting of mere tokens which can neither be employed for any industrial purposes nor convey a claim against anybody." - Mises

“Fiat money is the term for a medium of exchange which is neither a commercial commodity, a consumer, or a producer good, nor title to any such commodity: i.e., irredeemable paper money. In contrast, commodity money refers to a medium of exchange which is either a commercial commodity or a title thereto.” - Hans-Hermann Hoppe

"it is absolutely necessary that a money originate as a commodity with direct uses" - Rothbard

NOTE: "absolutely necessary" seems at least SLIGHTLY dogmatic to me.

Have fun writing your new reluctant bitcoin article on LRC...

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

It is rumored...

that the ghosts of beanie babies past dwelleth here. And that they are the reason for the Silence of the Crickets...

o_O

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

But, but...

I thought bitcoins had advanced impenetrable anti-hacking technologies given to us by aliens from the future. ;(

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~wobbles but doesn't fall down~

Bitcoin v Bytecoin

Go for the Bytecoin.

Why settle for just a measly old bit coin, when you can get a whole byte coin. And we’re not talking a teensy weeny little old 4 bit byte either. Although with a four bit byte you are already getting four times more with a Bytecoin than a little itsy bitsy Bitcoin, but were not going to stop there.

How does a 8 bit Bytecoin sound? That’s 8 times bigger than a Bitcoin. Wow!!! Talk about a super deal. Why trade your good, services and labor for a measily old Bitcoin, when you can 8 times more bits for your efforts with a Bytecoin? Sounds like a pretty obvious choice to me.

But wait! There’s more!!

We’re not just going to give you 8 bit Bytecoins in exchange for your goods, services, labor and wealth. We’re going to double that. How does a 16 bit Bytecoin sound? – Pretty awesome huh? Way better than a Bitcoin.

But wait, we’ve gone totally crazy! We got bits to move – more bits than we know what to do with. No need to settle giving away your wealth, ideas and labor for 16 bit Bytecoins. No way! Let’s double that. And then let’s double it again. Now we’re all the way up to 64-bit byte coins. Wow!!! Looks like Bitcoins is totally history folks.

Why settle for less folks?

But hey, some of you may be thinking, “Sure 64 bits sounds good now (Think Windows 7-64, and Vista-64.) But what about the future.” We’ll we’re thinking one step ahead of you. How does a 128-bit Bytecoin sound? Unbelievable right? We’re now reaching into AES level standards. You must be thinking were totally crazy. I am sure masses of people are probably already lining up to trade away their labor, innovation, ideas, efforts and wealth for these Bytecoins, and right now you have that special opportunity.

But hey, that is not the end of it. We’re going for broke folks. We’re going all the way to 256 bit Bytecoins.

I know you are probably thinking “Wow, a single 256 Bytecoin would probably be worth my entire life’s work, efforts and savings.” But don’t fret. You have the opportunity to get in on the ground floor. It is a cheap buy. Trade whatever you can right now to get some Bytecoins now. Who knows what they will be worth in the future. Give up your wealth and labor now to trade for some Bytecoins and in the future, other people will gladly give up their houses, information, cars, wealth, gold, food, businesses, you name for a mere fraction of a byte coin you will be able to get now.

Some of you may ask, “But what about you people that already have Bytecoins? What have you produced? You haven’t built any factories, produced any food, commodities, raw materials, inventions, services, etc. Aren’t you people just going to get free stuff off of this by trading your Bytecoins for which you produced nothing in exchange for the labor, wealth, and production of others?”

Well, the answer is absolutely not. We won’t benefit at all. We put in in very, very, hard, hard, valuable, super, super valuable work through our computer producing “processing cycles” to solve a specific amount of processing to solve a cryptographic formula. Me and my friends who got in early to use our computer processing to solve cryptographic mathematical formulas with today’s computer technology is extremely, extremely, extremely valuable stuff.

Why is it so valuable? Well, because I and my friends who devised Bytecoins have proclaimed it has great value. It is our fiat proclamation that it has value. The entire Bytecoin system rests upon our Fiat proclamation that our “processing cycles” are so valuable, along with our ability to hype up and convince others of the value of Bytecoins. Trust us! Masses of people would otherwise be willing to trade in their cars, time, efforts, gold, money, houses, and everything else that they can in exchange for me using my computer to solve cryptographic mathematical formulas with my “processing cycles.” It is valuable.

Plus, that mathematical formula gets harder as more Bytecoins are produced that way I and my friends who got in early made sure we already were able to get a goodly amount of Bytecoins for the minimum required “processing cycles” so we could trade our Bytecoins for the maximum amount of your wealth, goods, services and labor later. It is really quite open and fair.

Look, it is all just free market folks. You can voluntarily choose to give up lots of wealth for Bytecoins and that makes it all very open and fair. Just like if we were able to convince others to give up lots of their savings, labor, wealth and production in exchange for snake oil. It is all voluntary. We convinced them how valuable our snake oil is. Plus they can use that snake oil to trade with others in voluntary cooperation if they can convince them how valuable the snake oil/Bytecoin is like we have done.

As already explained, our snake oil (Byte coins) has very, very high value because we used our computers for “processing cycles,” and that is very valuable as we have already proclaimed. In today’s day of super-fast super computers, it is no easy thing to get “processing cycles” from the ever growing supply of ordinary home or business computer systems to work on nebulous “cryptographic mathematical formulas” now is it. That is why our “processing cycles” that Bytecoins is built on is so, so valuable. Just try to lease out your home computer for processing use. You will find the market will pay huge sums to you for such – far more than even it would cost to buy the computer itself, and despite the huge plethora of available much, faster, newer and better computers existing throughout the world. Now doesn’t that all make sense to you.

So line up folks and get some byte coins. Let’s hype up as much demand for them as we can, so we can trade are Bytecoins for as much wealth and services later as possible and make out like big scoring bandits.

Some of you may be wondering, but what about diluting the quantity. Won’t they lose value to inflation? Nope, Bytecoins will be limited to a fixed amount - the exact quantity as the Bitcoins, so you are always getting more value than you would with a Bitcoin. The software will limit it to never exceed the number that Bitcoins has promised. So if you are willing to trust Bitcoins, then you have to trust Bytecoins as well.

“But can it be hacked, confiscated, shut down, lost, destroy, etc…” - Well, all these wonderful questions have been soundly addressed by haze below. Every argument haze makes in favor of Bitcoins applies to the Bytecoins, so why not get more for your trade.

Skip the Bitcoins. Go for the better deal. Go straight for the Bytecoins.

BYTE ME BITCOIN!

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl

Go ahead show your ignorance

Go ahead show your ignorance and mock me and the idea of a digital decentralized crypto-currency.

I don't care.

I've said many times before in this thread, my sole goal is to spread awareness and explain the facts of the matter. What you personally do from there is entirely your business.

You know why I don't care? Because it's neither up to you or me to decide whether or not Bitcoin is viable. And whether you like it or not ultimately the market will make this decision for us. Oh and btw the market is saying that so far it's pretty nice to hold some Bitcoins. ;)

I like information!

Haze, I just want to thank you for your efforts to spread information.

And in my view, information IS power! Gold is nice, but in the age of information, IT is KING!

So I hope to all those who agree with me, take the mere 3 days, or about 48 hours of study, and to really understand Bitcoin (on a user level) ;)

I am sure you will find what many others have: it is REVOLUTIONARY!

if you don't agree, please study it before making silly comments. I would like to see intelligent debate/discourse on this topic.

Just plain 'Happy'about the direction the world is taking! Especially if we live to reach LEV [Longevity Escape Velocity]