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Gold and Silver Money now Legal Tender in Utah...Now what?

As of Friday March 25, 2011 the State of Utah becomes the first in the World to make gold and silver coins minted by the United States Mint legal Tender since 1971. Governor Gary Herbert has signed the bill into law.
You can see the bill's status here: http://le.utah.gov/~2011/status/hbillsta/hb0317s01.htm

Now that the bill is past what do we do? It's an interesting question. As a Utah resident, do I talk to my local credit union and ask for a gold and silver account? Should I demand payment in gold and silver from my clients? These are interesting times. The media hasn't jumped on this yet but hopefully should in the next few days and weeks. Hopefully this creates an avalanche of wealth and prosperity for those who deal with Utah and start sparking state legislators everywhere to adopt the competing currency.

Let me know your thoughts!

**UPDATE**
It looks like the U.S. Mint is ready to sell brand new 90% silver Quarters!!!
http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/?action=press_release&id=1228



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Hurray for Utah!

Makes me want to move there.

"You are not what you think you are, but what you think............. you are".
-Earl Nightingale

Gold Bonds!

Perhaps this law will encourage the demand for gold bonds in the State of Utah.

http://www.ehow.com/how_5120986_invest-gold-bonds.html

Cuimhnigh orm, a Dhia, le haghaidh maith.

Now What ???

Well, for starters if you keep some Gold in a Utah bank savings account, and it keeps "appreciating" in dollars like it has been for the last 10 years, instead of getting a puny 1% interest return on your dollar denominated account, you may get between 15-20% annual return in dollars on your account. I personally try to keep about $1,000 balance in my checking account, and it paid about $2.00 in interest for all of last year.

$1,000 in Gold X .20% for one year = $200.00.

The other advantage that was in affect before Roosevelt stole the American's Gold, was a bank would lend you money using your own Gold as collateral.
A private "Trustworthy" bank in Utah may restart this practice, because the more Gold stored in the bank, as the Gold goes up in dollar value, the assets of the bank also rise in dollar value.

beesting

How do you keep gold in a savings account?

You could place gold in a safety deposit box and some banks have special vaults for such items - both are bad ideas for storing gold.

The gold bugs rationalize instead of understanding that PMs are a good store of wealth during periods of heavy debauching of the currency; like now.

The U.S. doesn't have any gold so a gold backed currency is out of the question, at least for thinking people. Utah's new legislation is a meaningless diversion intended to lure the gold bugs to the altar of mammon.

END the FED before it ENDS US

It Shouldn't Be Long Before Banks In Utah Offer Gold Accounts.

Lets suppose the Utah banks do offer Gold/Silver accounts soon, as the state should have a way of safe guarding the Gold/Silver coins, in their own accounts, along with the people that live in Utah.

The Utah Bill:
http://le.utah.gov/~2011/bills/hbillenr/hb0317.htm

When they do, you or I walk into the bank with a Gold coin or 2 and say you want to deposit them in a Gold/Silver account, or whatever the bank decides to call it.

The teller says okay, takes your coin and gives you a receipt, along with a list of do's and don'ts concerning your new account. Who knows, right now if the bank will charge you a storage fee, "or" figure a way to pay interest in Gold that they may be accumulating by allowing borrowers to pay on loans in Gold/Silver.
Right now a person can buy or sell big items using Gold/Silver clauses in the contract describing the terms of the sale, anywhere in the USA.

Of course the IMF will make threats to the bank that they can't deal in Gold/Silver, but let the state of Utah deal with them.
The IMF doesn't have standing in the state of Utah, as far as I know .

P.S. and exactly where is the alter of mammon located?

beesting

Your account is owned by the bank

If a bank goes under, all of the accounts become the property of the most senior creditors - that not you.

When you deposit money at a bank, it becomes both an asset and a liability to the bank which creditors consider as money.

END the FED before it ENDS US

Beesting, I thought you had a grasp of this, now I'm not so sure

Please, define a "dollar."

Also, why would someone use gold as collateral to borrow "money" when gold already IS money and is spendable? (assuming a legal tender status as we are presently discussing)

Etymology of Dollar

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dollar

Basically it comes from the name of a silver mine and was used to describe a (generally 1 ounce) coin of silver. The use of the term Dollar on an FRN is more "counterfeit" than the "Liberty Dollar"'s use of it.

Jack Wagner

Believe Me Sam ,,,

I've been into the world of Gold a "LOT" longer than you !

Many years ago, when people trusted banks, they would and did put Gold into the bank for safe keeping, because anybody who stole their Gold could spend it like it was their own. A savings account in those days was in Gold, and not everybody could safeguard their own Gold safely 24 hours a day.

The banks were supposed to safeguard the Gold, and did in most cases, until socialistic president Roosevelt signed a presidential decree that the Gold be turned in, in exchange for frn's.

Many people, including people in my family, knew and talked about getting small loans by using a small amount of Gold for loan collateral. This was when new cars cost about $600.00, and there were usury laws in effect that prohibited high interest loans. There was "NO" such thing as a credit card.

The old dollar was 1/20th of an ounce of Gold, hence the old saying "the dollar was as good as Gold," because it was Gold!
Please read up on your history before you make remarks off the top of your head. I'm old and have talked extensively to people who used Gold in everyday commerce way before you came on to this earth.

beesting

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insult you. I was befuddled

because in some posts you were speaking of dollars and FRNs as separate things. (some people don't grasp that, but clearly you do.) So I found your wording strange when you mentioned someone using money as collateral to borrow money, as if the gold was merely an asset and not money itself. My question was, "why not just spend the gold?"

I understand some people kept their gold in a bank and then used FRNs or other bank notes. But that's how we got into this mess in the first place. I think there is this giant misconception that if you held gold and silver as currency, that somehow, you'd be more susceptible to theft than with FRNs or other bank notes. On the contrary, one is no more likely to be robbed directly, but one is more likely to lose purchasing power by government and finance thieves with bank notes.

One doesn't need to go through any hoopla to "store" your money regardless of if it is gold, silver or FRNs. If it is stolen, it is stolen and is just as liquid. (again, presuming that silver and gold at this point are being used as currency themselves)

And generally, most people will have little if any gold anyway. They would be more likely to have silver. Anyway, if they DID have a large amount of gold, such that a simple home safe or a clever hiding place would not suffice, then sure, I could see people putting their gold into a bank and opening a savings account. And I could see them using that for collateral for a loan perhaps down the road. But more likely, if someone had that much gold, they could afford the security they believe is necessary, just as if they had that much paper FRNs.

Why would someone put up FRNs as collateral to borrow FRNs? That is essentially what you were explaining except with gold. Can you see now why I was confused by your statement?

It isn't that I don't have a clue, or that I thought you don't. Its that your wording threw me off.

Again, my apologies if my wording appeared insulting. It wasn't meant like that at all.

Why wouldn't you just keep

Why wouldn't you just keep your gold in your home safe?

You Could !

But you have to realize that these politicians are not interested in helping individuals. They are trying to help the state and local banks stay solvent, and the states stay solvent, because some of them may realize that the housing bust was caused by the ultimate loss of value for FRN's, along with fraud.

This Utah bill is for state expenditures, business expenditures, and all others who decide to take advantage of it. Some may not have safes that are as safe as a banks safe.

Wide use of Gold as money in an industrious region can do what the founders envisioned under the Gold standard. Bring wide spread prosperity to the whole community, not just into the bankers pockets.

beesting

Because You Don't Trust Your Family Members?

In case the house burns down.

Because, if it's in the house, the bank won't consider it collateral.

Because you don't have a house.

I don't see any reason not to keep it at home, if you don't see any reason not to, either.

What do you think? http://consequeries.com/

fractional lending

"Because, if it's in the house, the bank won't consider it collateral."

Collateral. For fractional reserve lending purposes.

The house burning thing is a misnomer.

The gold will survive intact and relatively unscathed. There is examples of this very thing.

Silver will survive too, but may end up a little tarnished from the water if it gets exposed in putting out the fire.

A fire would have to get darned hot to melt either, and even if it did, there is an equal chance you'd have a blob of silver or gold instead of a coin or bar, but you'd still have the metal.

Sure, there are reasons to put it in a bank, but unless you posses it, you can't count on it being there. Its a question of which risk do you want to take?

Yes, the Mint has been making 90% quarters for proof sets

for several decades now.

I started collecting the annual sets in 1999 at the beginning of the State Quarters series. I still have 2010 to pickup to round off the territories. I wish I was able to have been collecting the First Lady gold series for my niece, but ah well...

Proofs are toys

The mint does not produce enough 90% silver coins currently to be of much commercial use, just toys for collectors at this point. Fortunately, we already have millions of "junk silver" pieces sitting around in shoeboxes and coffee cans in closets across the world.

We don't need permission, we just need drive.

We ALREADY have the tools.
Have we the will?

dynamite anthrax supreme court white house tea party jihad
======================================
West of 89
a novel of another america
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/161155#longdescr

This is true of course.

But they are being made none-the-less.

It certainly is a case in favor of MORE being minted. (It's not like they 'can not' do it)

"Will" is the key.

I think we still need a little fire under some bottoms before we see it happen.

Personally, if I owned a business I've always had it in mind to dual price as a matter of policy from the get-go.

Unfortunately, I don't have the resources to open a business, or I'd do it just to experiment with pricing strategy. (and I won't go into debt to do it, sorry folks - I abhor debt)

It Doesn't Matter...

It doesn't matter because no one will trade the coins at legal tender value. A $50, 1oz, Gold Eagle coin is selling for around $1,750. If you own them, you won't trade them as long as you have Federal Reserve notes and checkbook money.

It is the same as now...if you own PMs...keep them!

The PM money issue is a waste of time; a diversion. Anyone with common sense would prefer owning their own personal PMs rather than trusting someone's currency. The vast majority of all money (liquid) is bank account money. That's the stuff affected by a decline in the currency "credit score" (many chase the inflation boogy-man and they miss that the currency is being debauched).

You can decouple from the monetary system by storing wealth as you deem fit (PMs have worked well) and maintaining a minimum amount of "transaction money."

END the FED before it ENDS US

It is not a waste of time. It is a building block - a stepping

stone.

I don't think anyone meant this bill to be the silver bullet solution by far. The bill itself declares the coins legal tender then mandates a study on the efficacy of such action.

A waste of time

Yup, it's a waste of time - everything I wrote is true now and for the foreseeable future. You can do all the studies you want but you won't see anyone soon want to sell off their PMs to buy a dubious monetary system.

END the FED before it ENDS US

Anybody Holding U.S. Dollars Is Going To Get Burnt !

The Chinese and and people from Malaysia are already introducing money with Gold backing. The Japanese are selling U.S. treasury debt to raise money to pay for the disaster over there, this should continue to depreciate the value of the U.S. dollar.

Please stop with your negative propaganda Kirby.

beesting

You Believe in Santa Claus?

Do you think their money is redeemable on demand by PMs? It is NOT nor will it be. You can redeem your checking account money and cash with more promises, but no defined amount of PMs.

How long will people fall for this crap?

END the FED before it ENDS US

Please Give An Update,,,

On your Goldmoney account DrKrbyLuv, isn't it up in frn value, or you didn't fund it at all.

beesting

That makes no sense. What system would people be

"buying" and why would they have to "sell" their PMs?

People would USE their PMs as money and receive it back in change. It would be a currency just like what we have now.

It is not a waste of time.

Repeating it is doesn't make it so.

We used to have commodity money, and like it or not, we will again. When and how and what it looks like will either be dictated by circumstances, or we can help shape the transition.

I don't see trying to shape an inevitable transition as a "waste of time."

Would you prefer we just accept whatever crap the PTB want to throw at us?

I never understood why you are ever on this site. You never seem to be in line with anything anyone here, or even the Good Dr. stand for.

you could pay your taxes in

you could pay your taxes in gold and silver now... thats what you can do i guess.

but seriously considering gold and silver are still in long term bull markets, what sane PM holder would really be paying taxes with bullion? perhaps.when pms are in a bearish trend next decade or two... but whod be able to afford pms at that point anyway?

i get the ideological perspective of this legislation but not its fumctional validity.

Each State Is Drawing Up Their Own Version !

The original New Hampshire bill, written up by Constitutional lawyer Edwin Vieira, had the state of New Hampshire collecting "only" tobacco taxes in Gold/Silver for the purpose of seeding the state treasury with Gold/Silver.

The original New Hampshire bill expired, however the Montana bill:

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/2011/billhtml/HB0513.htm

Does still contain the tobacco tax provision.
Unfortunately, last week it was defeated by a 52 to 48 margin. { If my memory is correct. }

Thanks to all for the continued discussion on Silver/Gold, used as money as the Constitution specifies.

beesting

I don't think it was meant to have any real function.

It was more of a symbolic gesture.

The bill is really short.

It declares US minted gold and silver coin, legal tender in the State.

Then it prohibits anyone from forcing someone else to tender or accept those coins.

Then it orders a study and report done on do we even need an alternative legal tender to Federal Reserve Notes.

It looks like a building block to me. Not on end-all be all action.

Contact Your bank

The same way you call your representatives about legislature, or polling companies about including candidates or even companies about their products.

Talk to your bank and just ask them if they are planning on offering Gold/Silver account, and if not, that you would like them to. The more calls/request they get, the more they will think/talk about it, and may potentially offer the service.

Remind them that there are people through out the country that are waiting for any bank in Utah to begin this service. I will personally be getting an account once a solid bank makes a solid plan/service.

Jack Wagner

Banks will offer such accounts if they see there is a demand for

them.

HOWEVER, there are some problems with legalities and the realities of the Federal Reserve System.

Technically, a FRB member bank, which is the VAST majority of all banks in America (though not all) are considered as members, to be "federal persons."

There is a provision of law, that prohibits the federal government from paying out any gold coin. (says nothing about silver)

So if a member bank tried to set up a PM based account, they would have trouble cashing checks with gold, or transferring funds in gold.

They should be able to work silver accounts though with no problem.

The upside is that non FRB member banks have no such restriction and they will be able to fill the market need easily for such accounts. (and are generally more local and totally contained within the State anyway, so the money stays near home)

And the other upside, is you'll have an alternative banking system flourish that is a true alternative to the Federal Reserve System.