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New documentary coming out soon "college conspiracy" I cant wait to see it!

I've heard colleges lower the skill test to make better grade averages to attract more students, maybe thats true, maybe not. the fact that it cost so much money to get a degree to be employable is a scam. the whole concept of going to school to figure out your career at 18 and still dont even know who you are in life is ridiculous. the college loan business and getting people piled in debt, which is non dis-chargeable in bankruptcy, is a huge scam. I hope this documentary does a good job exposing it.


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I started college late,

and I'm now a 32 year old junior who has been a year removed from college, and doesn't want to go back. I didn't take any loans out, which is good, but I feel that I wasted my money. I believe one could learn more from reading and hands on experience rather than sitting in a class. College is just for getting that piece of paper. Also, many degrees are worthless, such as political science. That was my major. Once I started taking some of my core classes I became disheartened by some of what I was taught, and what the majority opinion by classmates was on some issues: the right to privacy doesn't exist, Andrew Jackson caused the economy to tank because he eliminated the central bank, and the BATF should, with force, go into everyone's home to check for illegal weapons. I have thought about returning for Accounting or business. I wouldn't mind opening a little restaurant because I love to cook. However, after learning what it takes to open a small business in relations to regulations and taxes, I wonder if it's even worth it.

What are some libertarian leaning colleges, and what states and districts have least amount of taxes and regulations? FREEDOM!!!

Check out Hillsdale College, Hillsdale Michigan

They teach Austrian Economics, have (or at least use to have) a top notch accounting department, and generally teach from a Conservative perspective. Large libertarian student contingent on campus.

It's a totally private school, but it is competitively priced compared to other Michigan public universities. They also have a substantial private student aid program.

Lot's of great history:
1st college to accept women equally with men (1844)
1st college to accept all races (pre-Civil War)
Never has accepted government funds

I started college 27 yrs ago

At that time in orientation they told us only 25% would graduate. And only 50% would get through the first year. They were pretty much on target.

People that have no idea what they want to do should not just jump into college in hopes to figure it out later. that is a very expensive way to make a big decision.

Some advice:
1. if you don't know what you want to do WAIT! Get a job, have some fun.
2. when you start go to a community college to lower the costs the first 2 years. same classes but less cost.
3. if you still don't know but want to get started you don't need to take a full schedule of classes. take one or two to get the flavor of college. again, less cost and time commited
4. not everyone should go to college, in fact most shouldn't. trade schools are another career choice.

In the end it is a lot of time and money to go to college. Not the place to just throw it away to hope you see the light. Wake up and get serious about your life plan. If college is in the plan then jump in and get it done. If not then follow your plan.

Fail to plan is a plan to fail!!!!

And if you are a parent that is planning to pay for college. Tell your kids that if they don't stick it through they have to pay you back every penny. So they better get serious and make some decisions on their life.

It is a big scam. Many of the faculty refuse to teach.

Or don't know much about their subject. Or they teach their personal political opinions. About the only thing being taught is that all white males over the age of thirty ( except faculty ) are racist.

Three years ago, thirteen students got caught turning in the same exact paper in one class ( out of 22 students ). When confronted all but one person admitted getting the paper off the internet. Those students who admitted guilt were not punished with expulsion. What class was being taught, you ask? Ethics. Actually I am surprised the University said anything. After working at and going to a University for years, what I see is an appearance of knowledge being taught. Hypocrisy and lies are about all you get from the administration, because they will say or do anything to get people into school so the school can take more money from someone while refusing to provide the service they sell.

I dont think all college is

I dont think all college is bad, i think the system is a joke and motivated by money. There are a lot of degrees that are worthy, I dont think it should cost so much. The push to get people into debt just to get a degree is the scam.

Ive met a lot of people who have a lot of school debt and regret it, if they dont regret it, they dont like that it costs so much and they needed to go into deep debt.

we need to have education, no doubt, but need systems that people can move forward in life without going in to deep debt.
I think this would be solved or changed drastically with a asset backed currency.

Good point. I think the

Good point. I think the problem is with government loans. Loaning your way through school is fine, but it shouldn't be lent from the government. The government has no credit approval process, they just hand out the money. This is what causes the price of education to skyrocket.

So, if we got rid of government backed loans then the price of education will fall and people would again be able to afford to go to school while working their way through college.

"The economy's not a class you can master in college. To think otherwise is the pretense of knowledge."

The system is set up to weed

The system is set up to weed out the dumb. You will sit in a freshman class with 500 other knuckleheads, most of whom don't really care about what they are studying. I implore you to go sit in a senior level or graduate class. You might have at most 25 students. There you will notice that none of them have lives and most of them will end up with high paying jobs.

I'm an accounting student and we have a great employment rate after graduation. So while student loans are obviously bad, painting this picture that all colleges are scams and no kids should consider going is fcuking bullshit.

I'm tired of people putting down education, constantly dogging it. I've even herd people labeling it has the lefts indoctrination camp....the only people I here saying this are people who didn't go to college.

"The economy's not a class you can master in college. To think otherwise is the pretense of knowledge."

Many of the people only pass because of cheating.

In most cases it is ignored by the faculty at the instruction of the University administrators.
Reading your post, such deplorable spelling would not have been acceptable to pass junior high school thirty years ago. Now it is better than most college graduates. Many of the faculty cannot understand simple written statements. I work in a business college at a University, and if it was not for ignoring the simple written and posted rules most of these students would not pass. People are taught elitism in college, they are taught that if you go to college you are better than everyone else, so you are allowed to ignore the rules. This is how many get their degrees, and how they get their leadership roles in business and government. If what you say is true, the evidence would support it, but since the economy is destroyed by greedy "educated" people it would seem my argument has been supported.

hmmm . . .

considering your grammar and your spelling, I think, perhaps, you need to consider what sort of an "advertisement" *you* are for college. *wink*

I am seriously questioning the value of a college education; both my spouse and I graduated from college and went beyond. The colleges we each attended were prestigious as well, colleges that are now very difficult to enter.

Think about what you are saying, look at your reasoning and your spelling, and consider that the use of vulgarities in your writing may not convince people that a college education is a very beneficial experience for the current college generation.

There are several editors on the DP; I am not a professional editor, just a writer; I am sure there would be others who would be willing to help you improve your writing skills.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Your using an ad hominem to

Your using an ad hominem to attack my point. Sure, my grammar and spelling are not perfect when I post on DP. I'm not writing a research paper, I'm simply citing my point of view.

Other than personally attacking me, you never once addressed any of the issues that I raised.

Education is not the problem. The problem is that the government forces students to loan money through federal lending programs. This inflates the price of education.

Blaming the educational institutes for this is like blaming the housing market when real estate was grossly inflated. Blame the government for giving out easy credit not the education institutes.

"The economy's not a class you can master in college. To think otherwise is the pretense of knowledge."

I'm sorry if you think that this is an attack on you--

because I pointed out that your writing does not seem to be a good example of a quality education.

Ad hominen is an "attack on the man", and I don't believe that I was doing that. I was assessing your writing and taking from it certain conclusions. But, not in all cases, is even ad hominen an illogical measure to take.

If a reader cannot detect educational quality from writing, then what other standards can be used?

You did say that from your major (accounting), many are able to find good employment.

From the perspective of many of *us* who are older on DP, though I don't include everyone, college education has become lower in quality in the past several decades. For example, in past decades and even centuries, a well-educated person had what was considered to be a good 'liberal' education, which means that the knowledge of Greek and Latin and literature from centuries of European civilization were considered much more important than vocational training.

All that many of *us* are trying to say is that colleges are not necessary for training for professions. It is possible to become a very efficient and competent accountant from an apprentice program. It is also possible to become a medical doctor mostly from apprenticeship. Many of these current educational programs are actually vocational and have very little to do with traditional, even conservative, academics.

The very fact that most of the current generation and even many in the older generations believe that colleges are for job preparation is a clue that the idea of what education even means has been lost.

I mean no offense, but I have studied Latin (though not Greek); it is very, very difficult, even for someone in my generation, to gain an understanding of the classics that are a foundation to a civilization that is now crumbling without a knowledge of Latin, and there is not a generation living that has had good access to Latin.

I have also studied some of the works of some of the noted conservative philosophers of the 19th and 20th century, and I do know that their definition of education does not match what is being "earned" on American college campuses, almost without exception.

You also stated that those who are critical of college education today are those who do not have degrees, and I refuted that, which wasn't a very sound hypothesis by the way, by stating that *I* question the benefit of college education, and I do have a college degree, from a major university, magna cum laude.

I did some graduate studies, but I did not complete a masters' degree.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Maybe in that excerpt you

Maybe in that excerpt you could have deduced that, but I just woke and was angry. I think I'm a decent writer, and work on becoming better everyday. I actually agree with a lot of what you have to say, especially about apprentice programs!

We do have experience requirements we have to meet in order to become CPA's, but in order to make that jump, you must first meet requirements to sit for your CPA, which involves a four year degree.

My main point is that the quality of education has been diminished by easy credit, promulgated by government lending institutes. This is just my opinion.

Anyway, your response this time was more insightful and spurred thinking. Good response. Where did you study at?

"The economy's not a class you can master in college. To think otherwise is the pretense of knowledge."

Ah, but that would be telling--


I am trying not to share private information on here, and so I won't tell you.

I am glad that you realized what I was saying. I agree with you that government should not, ever, be involved in education. School loans are a travesty, as are government grants; spouse and I did not borrow money or take grants, even though we qualified; we worked very hard at part-time jobs while going to college, and in the 60s it was not difficult to find summer employment. We spent nothing and saved every penney for the following school year and then worked while studying; looking back on our experiences, this was good.

Also, remember that when you are debating, you can never lose your temper--LOL! It is difficult, I admit; often I feel angry when I read things on DP, and often it is hard for that anger not to carry over.

I am quite certain I am old enough to be your parent, if not your grandparent, and these ideas are often discussed in our family, with our adult children.

I have one adult child who has attended college, gathered debt and been very disappointed in employment. This child is a very hard worker. I have another adult child who has built a business, based upon skills that have been acquired through years of hard study. The latter adult child has never been to college and reads heavily and speaks eloquently, much better, I might say, than the child who has been to college. I do suspect that my non-college educated child, who is much more successful, has a higher IQ, which is hard for a parent to say, but, oh well.

I did homeschool both of these children, however, so they have more knowledge of Latin and the classics than most of their public-educated peers.

My non-college educated adult child is a rational debater. :)

Another child is still making a decision about college.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

I'll try not to lose my

I'll try not to lose my temper. lol It is hard though, but intellect always wins. And thanks for all the great advice.

"The economy's not a class you can master in college. To think otherwise is the pretense of knowledge."

It's maddening...

when one realizes just how many people live their lives based on the decisions of a 17 year old!

Wha? .....hey....who stole my country?

I went with my son to college

I went with my son to college orientation 4 years ago. all I could think was these kids are just kids...they don't know what they want..how are they to decide what they want to do with their lives at the age of 18? Let them take off a few years and at the age of 23 or so...go to college if they must...at least by then they have had a chance to mature a little bit..

"and the truth shall make you free"
John 8:32

I went with my daughter

to her orientation last summer. What a dog-and-pony-show! Fortunately, we could see right through it (the driving force for these institutions is MONEY).

The caliber of students at this State university makes it obvious that a good portion of them are there only for the Freshman year and most likely won't be returning (they can't/won't do the work). A large Freshman class is good revenue.

The law cannot make a wicked person virtuous…God’s grace alone can accomplish such a thing.
Ron Paul - The Revolution

Setting a good example is a far better way to spread ideals than through force of arms. Ron Paul