1 vote

Am. Government: Flawed from the Start (Mike Gravel)

http://bigthink.com/ideas/15850

"Former Alaskan senator Mike Gravel describes how the American government is designed to undermine the power of the people, and reveals how an elite-based government was the intention of the Constitutional framers from the start."

The American system is representative government..Gravel I think basically wants to cut out the middle man. I agree with him.



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Governments able to go in debt, fail

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

Jefferson wrote in 1798, "I wish it were possible to obtain a single amendment to our Constitution. I would be willing to depend on that alone for the reduction of the administration of our government to the genuine principles of its Constitution; I mean an article taking from the Federal government the power of borrowing."

Free includes debt-free!

Jefferson was THE MAN!

Too bad he didn't have a hand in drafting the Constitution.

The Declaration of Independence is GREAT. The Bill of Rights is GREAT the Articles of Confederation were pretty good too.

Gravel is partially correct when he says that the new states were falling apart during the Articles of Confederation. What was happening was that the states were able to coin their own money. They were trading with each other and with other countries. That's when someone...specifically someone connected to the banking houses in Europe decided it was time to reign this in.

The Constitution is pretty darn great too, EXCEPT that it was designed with a bunch of little cracks in it. That's why Franklin said, "a Republic, if you can keep it." They didn't realistically think the New Constitution would last more than 80 years. That's why Rhode Island didn't sign the thing and they ended up placing an embargo around the little state and starving the residents out until they signed the Constitution.

Read
Rothbard's The History of Money and Banking in the United States.
Or
Hologram of Liberty by Royce

I dissagree. The only flaw in

I dissagree. The only flaw in our government are the idiot human beings who work the system. Because of human greed and lust for power it will collapse.

reedr3v's picture

That was interesting historic information;

I'd have to hear a LOT more to convince me that he's got a good idea with direct initiative democracy. Not that I'm defending the representative form we have either; that clearly didn't work.

I see the video is nearly 2 years old, so it seems not much has come of the idea; yet sometimes it can take a long time for ideas to germinate as we all know well.

"direct initiative democracy"

say it three times. click your heels....

and separate it from "mob rule"

please.

I really like this guy.

wasnt i the first to call for a Paul/Gravel ticket a couple weeks ago.

according to you socialism is

according to you socialism is the best too.

ok, I will look at it again. but only because I met you.

it was at Jagers the night before the rally. and yes, the chick in the tin foil hat was hot!

ok, if you like this guy, and as he says, "the s Korean constitution is better than ours"

please define.

"Elite based" sure. The

"Elite based" sure. The elites were trying to protect liberty from the monarchist/socialist/fascist masses. The good kind of elitism.

Ventura 2012

That was interesting and I'm sure pissed off a lot of people

I think Mike Gravel is correct. He does have a D after his name and that turns some people off. He is also talking about the idea of democracy that many people are freaked out by. Alexander Hamilton was one of them... Alexander Hamilton thought that the government should only be handled by the elite and that the rest of the population should be "confined to a box". Our Constitution is pretty good at doing just that. Gravel hits upon that.

Despite the line that we have been given that the US has the best Constitution anywhere and that we have to preserve the Constitution, and all the banter from the JBS that we should block a con-con... I wonder about this very topic ALL THE TIME NOW.

Reading Hologram Of Liberty by Royce is a total mind blower. Its a tough read but if you are serious about the Constitution you probably should read the book before you get motivated to shoot someone defending the Constitution.

why is "entropy" a part of your alias.

or is just something you thought sounded cool? can you compare it to enthalpy?

if I thought someone should understand the meaning of a word, before using it as part of thier alias.

would that make me an "elite"?

I was a Marketing "Specialist" for a defense contractor

The Press is a complete chaos making machine. EntropyPress has been my handle for a long LONG time.

Why is HVAC in your handle?

brain dead.

you have been here far too long to be that thick. let me try to help you. is it necessary for law to be based on something?

I am going to assume that you answered yes.

our constitution [RIP] is supposed to be the basis for our law. still with me?

what is our constitution based on?

if you cannot answer this question, then you will fall prey to fallacy.

Mike Gravel Is Correct!


This Country was formed by slave owners, who thought that only male property-owners should be allowed to vote. Is there not something wrong with that picture?

The Constitutional framers did get it wrong from the start. How else do we explain just how quickly our Country was immediately overtaken by the Elites, and the Moneyed-Interests, and was easily converted into a political system witnessed by all as nothing more than a legalized form of Bribery?

If we had National Ballots, like Mike Gravel proposes, we could all Stop The Wars, Abolish The FED, Abolish the CIA, live in peace, etc., and not have to rely upon paid-off hacks to do the "right thing" (which seldom happens).

Representative Government is a total sham, when the moneyed-interests, and not the people drive the whole system.

If Mike Gravel's System has been in place back in 1913, then we never would have even gotten the Federal Income Tax & IRS, the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, World War I, the National Security State, or any of the other horrors that have happened since then.

Some national elections were

Some national elections were won and lost on the banking issue. If the people were convinced to be pro Fed, we would still have ended up with a Fed. In fact, the whole Central bank issue was presented as a populist issue against the fat cats that wanted a rigid gold standard.

Ventura 2012

BS.. sorry but this is pure

BS.. sorry but this is pure BS.

pure democracy is the answer?

what was the question?

have you looked around you lately? where do you think your "rights" come from?

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a

free State...

Democracy has nothing to do with it.

Gravel is a bone head in this regard.

Sorry Mike...

Democracy is not the goal, never was...

“The Internet is the first thing that humanity has built that humanity doesn't understand, the largest experiment in anarchy that we have ever had." - Eric Schmidt

sorry, Gravel is an idiot

sorry, Gravel is an idiot compared to Madison, Jefferson, and Washington. He probably read Howard Zinn's book, one of the the most distorted and ignorant books ever written.

Thomas Jefferson 1796, 1800, 1804; James Madison 1808, 1812; Ron Paul 1988, 2008, 2012; Rand Paul 2016.

Jefferson didn't write the Constitution

they intentionally crafted the thing while he was in Europe.

Read Hologram of Liberty.

you have NOT answered my question.

is "entropy" just something that you thought was cool?

do you have a friggin clue as to what it means?

draw swords with me, please.

or quit wasting bandwidth.

loser.

mine is HVACTech, OK, have at it.

deacon's picture

yesterday i posted

yesterday i posted 2 links to articles that covered this very topic,for some reason it never posted,nor is it in my
recent posts either
our first const was null and void from the start
because of the treaty of 1213
it was a contract that never was,and the framers knew it
as did our founders
in 1787 it was redone to give the fed gov more power and teeth to extort and steal for the british empire and rome
who owns them and us
this is why our lovely elected do not nor have to listen nor abide by our wishes
the treaty of 1213 has never been rescinded,so no other contracts void it out or overpower ,or take its place

If we deny truth before your very eyes,then the rest of what we have to say,is of little consequence

that's cool. did you have a point to make?

law, government and money are legal fictions.

and as such, can be made and broken in a heartbeat.

natural laws are very different.

methinks it best we try to mirror them.

hint, hint.

Wow, that

is interesting.

"We can see with our eyes, hear with our ears and feel with our touch, but we understand with our hearts."

Also,

on the subject of the Constitution/American system of government...see Kenneth W. Royce's book
Hologram of Liberty: The Constitution's Shocking Alliance With Big Government.