1 vote

Why High Fuel Prices in The United States of America? Shouldn't This Be Stopped?

1.Almost every country can become energy independent. Anywhere that has sunlight and land can produce alcohol from plants. Brazil, the fifth largest country in the world imports no oil, since half its cars run on alcohol fuel made from sugarcane, grown on 1% of its land.

2.We can reverse global warming. Since alcohol is made from plants, its production takes carbon dioxide out of the air, sequestering it, with the result that it reverses the greenhouse effect (while potentially vastly improving the soil). Recent studies show that in a permaculturally designed mixed-crop alcohol fuel production system, the amount of greenhouse gases removed from the atmosphere by plants—and then exuded by plant roots into the soil as sugar—can be 13 times what is emitted by processing the crops and burning the alcohol in our cars.

3.We can revitalize the economy instead of suffering through Peak Oil. Oil is running out, and what we replace it with will make a big difference in our environment and economy. Alcohol fuel production and use is clean and environmentally sustainable, and will revitalize families, farms, towns, cities, industries, as well as the environment. A national switch to alcohol fuel would provide many millions of new permanent jobs.

4.No new technological breakthroughs are needed. We can make alcohol fuel out of what we have, where we are. Alcohol fuel can efficiently be made out of many things, from waste products like stale donuts, grass clippings, food processing waste-even ocean kelp. Many crops produce many times more alcohol per acre than corn, using arid, marshy, or even marginal land in addition to farmland. Just our lawn clippings could replace a third of the autofuel we get from the Mideast.

5.Unlike hydrogen fuel cells, we can easily use alcohol fuel in the vehicles we already own. Unmodified cars can run on 50% alcohol, and converting to 100% alcohol or flexible fueling (both alcohol and gas) costs only a few hundred dollars. Most auto companies already sell new dual-fuel vehicles.

6.Alcohol is a superior fuel to gasoline! It’s 105 octane, burns much cooler with less vibration, is less flammable in case of accident, is 98% pollution-free, has lower evaporative emissions, and deposits no carbon in the engine or oil, resulting in a tripling of engine life. Specialized alcohol engines can get at least 22% better mileage than gasoline or diesel.

7.It’s not just for gasoline cars. We can also easily use alcohol fuel to power diesel engines, trains, aircraft, small utility engines, generators to make electricity, heaters for our homes—and it can even be used to cook our food.

8.Alcohol has a proud history. Gasoline is a refinery’s toxic waste; alcohol fuel is liquid sunshine. Henry Ford’s early cars were all flex-fuel. It wasn’t until gasoline magnate John D. Rockefeller funded Prohibition that alcohol fuel companies were driven out of business.

9.The byproducts of alcohol production are clean, instead of being oil refinery waste, and are worth more than the alcohol itself. In fact, they can make petrochemical fertilizers and herbicides obsolete. The alcohol production process concentrates and makes more digestible all protein and non-starch nutrients in the crop. It’s so nutritious that when used as animal feed, it produces more meat or milk than the corn it comes from. That’s right, fermentation of corn increases the food supply and lowers the cost of food.

10.Locally produced ethanol supercharges regional economies. Instead of fuel expenditures draining capital away to foreign bank accounts, each gallon of alcohol produces local income that gets recirculated many times. Every dollar of tax credit for alcohol generates up to $6 in new tax revenues from the increased local business.

11.Alcohol production brings many new small-scale business opportunities. There is huge potential for profitable local, integrated, small-scale businesses that produce alcohol and related byproducts, whereas when gas was cheap, alcohol plants had to be huge to make a profit.

12.Scale matters—most of the widely publicized potential problems with ethanol are a function of scale. Once production plants get beyond a certain size and are too far away from the crops that supply them, closing the ecological loop becomes problematic.

13.Smaller-scale operations can more efficiently use a wide variety of crops than huge specialized one-crop plants, and diversification of crops would largely eliminate the problems of monoculture.
The byproducts of small-scale alcohol plants can be used in profitable, energy-efficient, and environmentally positive ways. For instance, spent mash (the liquid left over after distillation) contains all the nutrients the next fuel crop needs and can return it back to the soil if the fields are close to the operation.
Big-scale plants, because they bring in crops from up to 45 miles away, can’t do this, so they have to evaporate all the water and sell the resulting byproduct as low-price animal feed,which accounts for half the energy used in the plant.

14. Now those making $ 10 to $ 15 an hour can be barely afford one of these gas guzzling SUV's. It takes an average of $ 65 to fill up the tank of a midsize sedan. Let's up stand up and say "NO more" to oil lobbyists seeking handouts from congress. Despite record profits, Americans have had it with high oil prices.


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Dear Ignorantus, before

Dear Ignorantus, before asking for more ethanol you should learn that ethanol is destroying engines, ask any auto mechanic or someone fixing lawnmowers. Ethanol is a killer for engines...say goodbye to sitting diesel engines (like boats for example)running on diesel/ethanol mix.



Instead of posting about

Instead of posting about "small scale" ethanol producers being the way towards energy independence, what about producing some alcohol yourself?

Most people who have actually tried this, quickly realize they put as much energy in as they get out up here. In Brazil things are a little bit easier due to a more ethanol favorable climate.

Live now! 9am pst Gary will talking about compressed air car

Dr. Gary Null Ph.D., talks about car that runs on air.

A car that runs 200 miles on compressed air.

And never forget, “Humans, despite our artistic pretensions, our sophistication and many accomplishments, owe the fact of our existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains.”

Lots of things that are bogus in this post

But I don't care. Get rid of the sugar Tarif and much of the ethanol thing gets solved. Open up the drilling everywhere in the US and watch the price of oil fall. I would also like to see farmers be able to grow hemp so we can see how viable hemp seed oil is to make diesel fuel out of.

Can "we" save the whales too?

You hippies get under my skin with your collectivism. I fill up my gas guzzling suv twice a week with high-test and toss styrofoam cups full of freshly clubbed baby seal eyes out the window on the way home. Then I eat 100 twinkies and burn the plastic wrappers in a bucket of used motor oil.
But seriously, buy a car that runs on alcohol and make it all day long--who cares? Don't include me in your little collectivist paradise plan because I'm not giving up one ear of my golden sweet corn for your hippie mobile.

SteveMT's picture

"We" can let the free market decide if the government just.....

gets out of the way.

That is simplest way.

Agree, Jive. Overuse of "we" sounds like Big Brother.

The problem is, how would you

The problem is, how would you interpret the free market responds to this?

I mean, one argument is that a free market would not allow any energy or coal production. Because energy and coal production, for the most part, causes pollution. Rampant pollution, high pollution. That is a violation of property rights.

You could even argue, that when you drive your car, you are causing harm to someone else's property, because the emissions from your car are causing environmental damage.

So in a free market, you, as well as any oil or gas or coal company, would be completely open to lawsuits. At minimum, people within your own state/city would have a lot of justification.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

So then freedom is bad?

Your sig includes, "Eliminating national debt"??? Are you daft? Have no idea how the system works?? I have friends who are also very smart but have no clue what they're talking about because they don't understand the basic structure of things. Do I know you? haha
How can you eliminate debt when all money originates as debt? How can you even pay interest without first borrowing the money to pay it? Get a clue. I'm out of patience for ignorance, especially the "thoughtful" kind. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!


True, Brazil is not dependent on foreign oil and fuel. However a gallon of gasoline in Brazil is $7.00 a gallon, with a fleet much smaller than the United States. Also all mineral rights in Brazil belong to the state. In fact even water underground belongs to the state. There is only one petroleum refinery in the country of Brazil and that is Petrobras. As for alcohol it is a good alternative but there are shortages during the year due to production and sugar demand. In fact last month Brazil imported alcohol from the United States due to shortages since the cheap dollar makes American alcohol attractive. If the dollar keeps falling Brazil with over 350 billion in reserves may be buying U.S. products.
Alcohol can be made from trees and even grass. If local refineries were build around the country alcohol could be produced from lawn maintenance companies and tree pruning. Don't have to cut the trees down and they don't need to be replanted like corn does or other annual crops.

The Oil Cartel Owns The Private U.S. Government Corporation

They got foreclosed on in 1913 by the oil and banking tycoons.

So of course oil prices are fixed!
Who is there to tell them otherwise.

The Oracle

a we problem

Pronouns require antecedents. The article uses the word "we" quite a lot. Who are "we"? We the People of the DailyPaul?

It would be great if the US ended the protective tariffs on sugar, the subsidies of corn ethanol, and the ban on hemp. Then the freed market could sort it out. People could burn food in their cars if they wanted.

I do not think we are the We that the article alludes to without naming. It sounds like We the Central Planners to me.

Hey! We (we!) have a GOP nomination to win!

Ĵīɣȩ Ɖåđşŏń

"Fully half the quotations found on the internet are either mis-attributed, or outright fabrications." - Abraham Lincoln

Yet again

the answer seems to be: "Laissez nous faire"

Drive; don't drive. I don't give a crap.

But you can't fill up a whole day on NBCFOXCNNABCMSNBCCBCCTVBBCCNBC with Laissez nous faire

Won't work. Here is why.

It currently takes the equivalent of the energy in 1 barrel of oil to get back 12. That is one fantastic return in spite of the fact that it has been steadily declining from the 100 back from 1 invested back in 1930. So in order to replace oil you need something that offers a similar fantastic return.

Corn ethanol has a marginal or even negative return. The most optimistic estimate is that we get the equivalent 1.06 barrels back for every 1 barrel invested. If you could run 1200 cars on oil you could only run 106 by replacing gasoline with corn ethanol. Corn ethanol is an evil joke.

Ethanol from sugar cane is claimed to have a return of 8 to 1 so replacing gasoline with cane ethanol you could run 800 cars instead of 1200, but here is the problem. There is a very limited portion of the earth where you can grow the stock to get that 8 to 1 return, so you just could not scale up this production to replace oil on a large scale. It just won't work. And consider that the first time you have a serious drought or something else happens to give you a crop failure, then the entire world economy will grind to a halt because there won't be anything to burn in our transportation vehicles.

Perhaps we should just stick to drinking ethanol and forget about burning it.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

Thanks! Almost anything is


Almost anything is "possible" on a laboratory scale, but the real difficulty with replacing oil lies in the sheer magnitude of the oil industry.

Oil is solar energy captured by plants over millions of years and made available in convenient liquid form. All solar based renewables require solar energy captured by plants over just one year, to replace this.

Of course, eventually we'll run out of oil, and then we'll have to find something else. But until then, oil is one tough competitor.

Tell you what

You solve the monetary and corruption problems and you'll see just how fast the magnitude of the oil industry crumbles. There are so many solutions up against the big oil brick wall and all they need is one brick to fall. When they can see that light coming through, they'll topple the rest in no time.

The problem is back to money. Either due to unawareness like yourself or blatant arrogance that it's not a problem like others in this thread, people keep propagating the idea that we WILL have to do something someday... but not now. That's the whole problem. It allows the media and the people and the investors to all keep listening to the big energy 'experts'. It's nothing but propaganda lies. We have everything we need now except for awareness that we already have it.

To give you a different perspective on your solar 1 vs. 1 million year statement, try this. There's more energy hitting 1/3rd of your rooftop than you use at home and to travel and it's free.

To counter the argument you eluded to that gasoline is the only currently conveniently storable energy form because it's high density liquid, hydrogen can now be stored in 1/4th the space and 1/6th the weight when using hydrides and there's zero explosive potential.

We just have to let the people hear the teams that are working on this stuff so they can decide for themselves. No more listening to the media say it's 10-40 years out.

I do want to mention

I do want to mention something.

There is this notion that the oil industry is brutally surpressing alternative energy. This really isn't true.

Yeah, they do some things, but there is a thriving alternative energy industry. Ever since Europe and Japan started funding it, along with GWB of all people, you've seen a huge jump in alternative energy technology.

In spite of the general rhetoric being, we don't have to do anything now, in spite of government bowing to the oil companies with subsidies and loopholes, in spite of the media propping up these ideals, alternative energy is doing really well. Biofuels and solar panels show great promise.

What I fear might happen, is you might see a company like GE or XOM or RIG buy out one of the biotechs that have developed this technology. Like, for example, LDK develops a new kind of solar panel; GE buys it out and then doesn't sell it. That way they can keep oil as the dominant source of energy; ie control the market longer.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

You're missing the target

The suppression IS the renewables that are making progress. If you look at all the projects that are 'making it' now, they're only the ones that maintain the monopoly status of the energy companies. PV might be making some progress but it's such a scattered and small market that they can wait it out some. Even so, GE DID just buy out the best new cheap PV tech and is building a big plant in the US. So your fears are already true.

What I'm referring to are the types that make people truly self sufficient away from all monopolies. Since PV still requires batteries or a grid, that doesn't qualify. There are others out there that solve all the issues and those can't get funding from any source. One startup I know of got his home foreclosed on right before his HELOC went through, even though he was up to date. Investors, banks, government grants, loans and more... they all dry up when you try to raise money for any of these technologies. Why is that?

If that's not enough, my company was put under by the banks too. When we were close to signing a deal on a wind farm, we were politely told that we would be donating $500k to the repubs or we would go under. When I squawked about that, they said we'd last until April 12th. We closed our doors 4 1/2 months later on April 12th. I have little faith in your comment that there's no suppression.

The difference, is the

The difference, is the government doing it, or are the company's directly doing it?

If the banks are in cahoots with GE, how is the government responsible for that?

If big energy wants to buy all the alternative energies and corner the market, should the government stop them from doing so? I don't necessarily see that as stoppable "surpression".

What you are saying may be true, but there also companies that disprove what you are saying. There are plenty of tiny biotechs making headways in the newest energy fields. Those are a threat to big energy monopolies.

What specific "industries" are you talking about, where government grants and private investment are not coming in? Private investment especially; there are few barriers to private investment. I own shares in solar companies, biofuel companies, and will definitely look at some of the copper cell technology coming out. Government research grants are limited, of course; the supply isn't infinite. Of course it tends to go to the most promising types of research. Loans are down in general....

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

This is generally true, but

This is generally true, but there is little doubt in my mind that alternative energy is the way of the future.

You have yeast producing jet fuels, technology that can literally harvest the power of the sun, etc.

In fact, Ron Paul might argue that these types of energies are the only ones that can legitimately exist, since ones like oil and coal often violate property rights.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Gasoline is cheaper than

it has ever been. One Silver Dime buys a gallon. Gas is not going up my friend.....The dollar is crashing.

Well, the price of gas

Well, the price of gas tripling in three years is only partially due to devaluation of the dollar. Its also do to fear in the ME, both US and non-US caused, and speculation.

Silver and Gold are also both being increased right now due to speculation.

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Interesting opinion, no proof.

"Silver and Gold are also both being increased right now due to speculation."

http://minerals.usgs.gov/ds/2005/140/ has mineral/metal prices back to 1900. Not seeing the speculation you claim.

How about gold/oil ratio

silver/oil ratio?

Free includes debt-free!

If minerals and oil are

If minerals and oil are increainsg due to speculation, just as Au and Ag are, wouldn't the ratio still be the same?

Plan for eliminating the national debt in 10-20 years:

Overview: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2010/09/12/my-plan-for-reducin...

Specific cuts; defense spending: http://rolexian.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/more-detailed-look-a

Ratios would tend move with market conditions.

The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 mandated an elastic currency. Money where the value can be controlled by manipulating supply and demand of that money. Legalized "smoke and mirrors" for the banking cartel formed.

I would expect that the ratios would be more volatile because a "printing press" allows for manipulations that falsify apparent value.

Free includes debt-free!


The precious metals prices have been driven by speculation. One of the reasons given is the printing press even though inflation of the money supply is consistent with the past decades.

The only hyperinflation I see is in the price of gold and particularly silver which is going almost straight up, something that is unsustainable. Try making the argument that gasoline is not going up in relationship to silver after the silver speculation bubble burst and it won't hold water.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

I disagree.....

Precious metals are being driven by physical demand, not speculation. Central banks began buying gold in 2009 for the first time in decades. China is encouraging it's citizens to buy gold and silver, as well as Russia, India and more. Most Americans will be the last ones to the party because they so blindly believe that the dollar is still as good as gold.
If you look at the 10 year charts for gold and silver, it is plain to see that neither are anywhere near a bubble. Just a strong, steady, fundamental bull market taking place. Not even close to what happened in the 80's, or with the Nasdaq bubble or housing bubble. Not to mention, there are 10x the people able to invest in PM's, that were unable to in the 80's.
I do believe this run will ultimately end in a bubble, however we are nowhere near there, yet.

"You are not what you think you are, but what you think............. you are".
-Earl Nightingale

What is the difference between physical demand and speculation.

Whether the current bull market is a bubble about to burst or one that will continue does not invalidate the simple fact that people are speculating on future value. Those long are speculating on an increase in value; those short are speculating on a decrease in value; those out of the markets are either uninterested, don't care for the risk, or have bigger fish to fry.

By your own words you indicate you are speculating; you seem to think that because you have "fundamentals" to support your opinion that somehow you are not speculating on the change in value, but you are.

Your entire premise is that at some future date you will have greater value or at least preserve value. You are not investing, but speculating on what the value will be in the future. Physical demand versus contract demand is simply an expression of how to carry out your speculation. Go look up the dictionary definition of speculation.

"Bend over and grab your ankles" should be etched in stone at the entrance to every government building and every government office.

What is the difference between investing and speculating?

Isn't the general concept of investing using money today in "hopes" that it will bring more money in the future?
I wasn't questioning the speculating part of your comments, as much as the bubble comments.
I still contend that we are in a bull run, not a bubble, and there is a difference between those.
Touche on the speculation symantics. The point I was trying to make was that, I believe, people are questioning currency and demanding physical metal for protection, much more than just trying to make a buck through speculation.

"You are not what you think you are, but what you think............. you are".
-Earl Nightingale

That's great news,

my friend! I've got some silver dimes! Tell me, where can I go buy this gallon of gas for One Silver Dime?

"I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this any more!"
- Howard Beale

At the gas station next to the local coin shop

Stop in the coin shop first to pick up your gas coupon. It will look identical to a $5 FRN and the gas station will happily accept it.