-38 votes

I Think Dual Citizenship is Treason

I am against dual citizenship of any kind. When you benefit from the blood spilled by patriots in the past, the least which can be requested of you is undivided allegiance. The United States is not like any other country, even though I am the first to condemn the crimes of our government, in Latin America, in the Middle East, and across nearly every continent in the world. Nevertheless, it is the greatest country in the world. A country is not its government. The fact that we are now being badly betrayed by our leaders and threatened by domestic traitors to the Constitution is another matter. We can recover. One small step is to outlaw what President Teddy Roosevelt called "a self-evident absurdity."

Roosevelt said "We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance."

For most of the country's history, dual citizenship was considered the equivalent of political bigamy. It is a recent development, dating from 1967, when the Supreme Court struck down a law that forced people to relinquish their American citizenship if they acquired another citizenship.

The absurdity gets worse. It so happens some people are subject to relinquishing dual citizenships, as was revealed in the case of Shamai Kedem Leibowitz, an FBI translator with a top secret security clearance who actually did act as a patriot when he leaked documents which might have been related to the NSA’s surveillance of U.S. citizens, and was prosecuted for it by Obama.

In article on Leibowitz, Politico noted:

"The FBI page on contract linguists says: "Applicants for the FBI Contract Linguist position must meet all of the following requirements: United States citizenship; Willingness to renounce dual citizenship.... Ability to meet all FBI Employment Requirements, pass an FBI Background Investigation, and receive a Top Secret Security Clearance ....""

It is also possible that Leibowitz was prosecuted for being behind the leaked news that Representative Jane Harman had allegedly been caught on an NSA wiretap engaging in a quid-pro-quo conversation with an Israeli agent.

Leibowitz is the grandson of a famous Israeli Torah scholar, philosopher and activist, Yeshayahu Leibowitz. He joined the defense team of a Palestinian activist Marwan Barghouti, and is a supporter of a "one-state solution" to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. He has also supports efforts divestment of U.S. institutions in Israeli bonds.

But I digress. The big question is, why are low-level employees subject to relinquishing their dual citizenship, but not U.S. Congressmen like former Representative Rahm Emanuel, later White House Chief of Staff, or those at the highest levels of an administration's foreign policy apparatus like Douglas Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, or Dov Zakheim? Emmanual served in the Israeli Army but not the U.S. one. What does that tell survivors of the USS Liberty?

The idea of liberty dictates that any human being can choose to be a citizen of any country for which he or she qualifies. That's his business. But any country could suddenly be at war with any other country. That is realpolitik. For the privilege of being a citizen of this great country, you must choose.

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I think everyone should retain the right to leave.

If you want to go to another country that will accept you, I couldn't care less. But, if you are a citizen of another country with the allegiance that implies, then I do not want you making decisions in politics that affect my country's welfare. I do not trust you to make decisions that are in my best interest.


Citizenship can hardly imply allegiance if it can be held without one's knowledge. It's one thing to have your say and vote for non-dual-citizens instead of dual citizens. It's another thing to call for violent force and call it treason when someone's family situation gives them interests in having access to two countries. It might not be as simple as a choice between the USA and family; it may be that people have family, parents, children, both in the US and elsewhere.

failing to assist your fellow man is immoral

If you're driving through the desert and you come across a group of stranded families about to die of thirst, and you have the back of your truck full of water...

Do you stop and give them an amount of water that would not harm you?

Or do you drive on by?

This argument reeks of the latter. This post takes it a step farther and argues to call dual citizenship "treason". Words and language matter. Immigration restrictions and closed borders harm human beings, while opening borders has very little negative effect to very select groups. The net benefit to an economy is highly net positive.

This entire post is a veiled argument for violence against many including children. So yes, that qualifies exactly as HATE.

I might give them water.

If I have enough to support my family first, plus extra.
But, I will NOT invite them to move into my home.
Having people in my house, who are not loyal to my family
would be insane.

Your argument is hate, unmasked.
You can call me whatever name you want.
I will not be intimidated by your stupid Communist ideology
and smelly hippy guilt-trip bully tactics

Actually communism is defined by closed borders

Remember East Germany? The dead line, machine gun nests? Crickets?

Open borders is not communism, it is the epitome of freedom. Incidentally, it's one reason the United States flourished early on. There were no immigration limits to speak of! People are able to voluntarily interact with each other exactly how they see fit. Open borders doesn't mean you have to share your kid's room with them. But if you own a rental house, your rental income might start going up...

Leave the Stasi agents and murderous border guards in the history books of East Germany. It doesn't work well.

You are talking about a specific instance.

Which was not really pure ideological Communism. It always pretended to be democratic, but in actuality was autocratic or oligarchic. In fact, the borders were primarily known for keeping the citizens WITHIN the USSR. Yeah, when you need barbed wire, land mines, and machine gun nests to keep your citizens at home, you're doing it right.

Maybe that's why we maintain tens of thousands of Border Patrol officers, while ordering them to RUN AWAY from illegal aliens, throwing rocks. They may actually come in handy some day soon...

I was talking about the universal humanist ideology which is NEVER universally applied, although certain people certainly seem intent on applying them, or at least their burdens, to the United States. You, open borders advocates, simply refuse to look at the FACTS that unregulated immigration is HARMFUL to our society. When we can no longer take care of ourselves, we will not be able to help anyone. But, hey, if you want to live in a third world country, it appears that you are in luck. We will have plenty to go around. But, that is not really what this post was about I guess, aside from the fact that there are dual citizens promoting this harmful policy within our political system.
Our country was not founded for the purpose of repairing the world.

actually the true DATA shows the inverse

Immigration creates a highly positive net economic effect. That is indisputable FACT.


From a moral standpoint, those arguing against open borders and immigration must demonstrate with definitive proof that abandoning those dying families on the side of the road is in everyone's best interest.

Ridiculous post, rediculous argument...

Besides the fact the author clearly doesn't understand the definition of "treason", the rest of this garbage post is so ignorant of liberty minded philosophy it's not even funny.

Immigration controls and controls on citizenship is a form of state initiated violence on peaceful people. You're basically advocating sticking the barrel of a gun in the face of people who want or enjoy the freedom of work and life mobility, or locking them in a cage.

Better check yourself before you wreck yourself!

Spend a weekend reading some Bastiat and John Locke my friend. Oh, and listen to this:


and watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYk00Ufiqb4

I agree with you on this as

I agree with you on this as far as holding public office. As a citizen you should be able to have dual citizenship with another country but if you hold public office you are a public servant and your allegiance to be to the US Constitution alone.

We all share this eternally evolving present moment- The past and future only exist as inconsequential mental fabrications.

Citizenship is treasonous to me

I am not a citizen belonging to any State or Nation. I am a man belonging to myself.

I do believe we should make our elected into "citizens", bound by state and treasonous to promote the interests harming our own state, as judged by our state.

amen. Anyone that is worried

amen. Anyone that is worried about a tribal designation is asking to be ruled. I own me, no one else does.

A European citizenship would

A European citizenship would be very valuable to me, particularly if it is in the Shengen area.

We've got a dual citizenship problem.

How many countries in the world allow dual citizenship?
How many countries of the world allow their citizens to swear allegiance to a foreign state, vote in foreign elections, run for office in another country while at the same time being a citizen in good standing in the "home country," win or be appointed to office in another country and serve while still a citizen in good standing in their "home country," join another country's armed forces while a citizen of their "home country," or fight in another country's army even if that country were hostile to the interests of the "home" country" ?

We've got a dual citizenship problem.

"The heart of the American national community, its foundation, consists of emotional attachments -- a warmth and affection for, an appreciation of, a pride in, and a commitment and responsibility toward this country's institutions, way of life, and fellow Americans. These central psychological features describe a much misunderstood and unjustly maligned concept and set of basic elements of the American national community -- patriotism. And, therein in lies the core of the problem with dual citizenship and multiple national attachments." Reforming Dual Citizenship in the United States

We've got a dual citizenship problem.

Rahm for President?

Any one bother to research the original 13th Amendment? No, not Lincoln's sleight of hand. I mean the one that was so carefully supplanted over time by treasonous factions, both foreign & domestic. This needs the attention of the American people. Reestablishing its rightful place would go far in removing the only dual citizen class in the U.S., the Talmudic Judaists. Search the internet while you can.

I have no problem with "dual citizenship," provided...

those who possess dual citizenship not be allowed to act to benefit foreign countries. In other words, all office with Canadian citizenship should not be allowed to write or vote on legislation involving agreements with Canada. No dual-citizen Arab or Israeli should should be involved in writing, enacting or arbitrating policies involving Israel and her Arab neighbors, etc. It's simply a conflict of interest, whether or not intended.

Dual Citizenship = Dual Allegiance, which is impossible

The idea that someone can have citizenship to multiple countries is entirely flawed. The reason our founders specifically prohibited government from accepting foreign titles is that they knew it would divide allegiance. Even though citizens are not specifically prohibited from accepting foreign titles, the problem is the same - divided allegiance.

We shouldn't care what other countries do, but if someone wants US citizenship they should have to renounce all others. For example, if a Jew wants US citizenship, since Israel grants citizenship to all Jews automatically by race, then Jews should have to renounce Israeli citizenship in order to obtain US citizenship.

A country full of people that do not have sole allegiance to our country and constitution is what we have today and our country is being destroyed by those that do not really care about America and our constitution ignored by those that do not really care about our law.

you need a place to escape an oppresive regime

which is why dual citizenship is needed for people, what if USA becomes communist and starts killing white people, they would need a place to stay or make a living.

Communists specifically kill white people?

You are insane.

it was an example

of a situation where you would need dual citizenship and plenty of Neo Cons and some folks believe Obama hates white people and idk if he does or not.

Mr. Madison, Maybe You Should Read Up On American,,,

Immigration laws.

My wife, a naturalized American Citizen, was born in a country where you're automatically a Citizen for life, no matter what country you live in.

That makes her a duel Citizen,,,,,and one of Ron Paul's strongest supporters, at the same time.


What country?

And why does she want to be a citizen of that other country?

I'm a son of an immigrant and

I'm a son of an immigrant and as such most of my family live in the UK, so if I wanted to be in public office, which I do, your telling me that I would have to turn my back on my family, my history, my ancestral homeland in order to get elected. That proposition is bad and shouldn't be spread

Allegiance should be to

Allegiance should be to liberty, everywhere, for everyone, regardless of the flag under which they live.

why does this keep getting placed in 'off-topic'?

is someone hacking the server?

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali

One of the moderators doesn't like the topic.

Or feel that it is too controversial, so they moved it to Off Topic where it will not appear on the frontpage.

I think you made a very valid and constitutional point, though maybe you could have used a better title. Unfortunately anyone that has dual citizenship is going to defend having such a paradox.

It would be like asking welfare recipients if we should have welfare.

So having a passport means

So having a passport means you have an "allegiance" to a government?!?! Really?!?!

What if your mother gave birth to you in Communist Russia, does that automatically make you a Communist?

Where do you get the idea that having some sort of travel permit (Passport) equates to having some sort of "loyalty" to a government?

How do you make a generality like that?

you are confusing so many things it's hard to know where

to start. Communism is not a government. It is an ideology held by a particular government, a party. A passport is not a travel permit, it is proof of citizenship of the country you claim to be a citizen of. I don't care if the concept of citizenship implies loyalty to you or not, that's your business. I do care that if you have a position in my government or even a vote as a citizen, that you will help determine which wars I and my brothers will fight, without even the minimal expression of common interest of being only a citizen of my country, and no other. I will look at the votes you cast and the policy decisions you make with suspicion if you are a citizen of a country with possibly conflicting interests.

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali

But again, you're equating

But again, you're equating passports and the location of birth to government loyalty... It doesn't make any sense.

Like I said before, instead of worrying about what kind of "papers" people have or where people were born, worry about their ideas instead.

You have natural born Americans that are communists, socialists, and neo-cons that are a MUCH MUCH MUCH greater threat to "you and your brothers" than somebody who has multiple passports.

I think you've got your eye on the wrong ball.

No, American communists, socialists, and neo-cons

who have to live here worry me less than someone who doesn't.

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali