4 votes

Why Israel is Not My "Close Friend"

No one was more shocked than I at Ron Paul's apparent kowtowing to AIPAC in the wake of Obama's recent stern - if questionable like everything he says - remarks toward Israel. Obama suggested that the 1967 border which comprised the basis of the state before the campaign of illegal settlements sought to make it irrelevant was indeed the proper basis for negotiation. Dr. Paul interjected:

“Israel is our close friend. While President Obama’s demand that Israel make hard concessions in her border conflicts may very well be in her long-term interest, only Israel can make that determination on her own, without pressure from the United States or coercion by the United Nations."

Excuse me, but Israel is not my "close friend." Dr. Paul has an avowed policy of friendship and trade with "all nations," and so his remarks have been interpreted as merely in keeping with this spirit. But the difference between Israel all other nations is that "all nations" did not attack the USS Liberty unprovoked to drag us into a war against Egypt, with new revelations still emerging and the survivors still calling out for justice. The survivors want a real inquiry, like a Truth Commission, and an end to the lies and cover up.

The USS Liberty was attacked deliberately by Israel, in a false flag attack by unmarked warplanes and attack boats, to drag the United States into the Six Day War against Egypt. This would have benefited Israel, but not the United States. The government of Israel has every right to conduct its foreign policy in its best interests, but this illustrates how those interests are not always in accord.

The Liberty was strafed and torpedoed mercilessly for nine hours and sailors frantically waved and signaled that they were American. The idea was for the ship to sink with no survivors, and therefore no witnesses. Due to the characteristic heroism of the American fighting man, the fires were extinguished, damage managed, and the ship did not sink. This is the only reason we now know what happened.

Dr. Paul said further:

“I am not the only one who can see the absurdities of our foreign policy. We give $3 billion to Israel and $12 billion to her enemies. Most Americans know that makes no sense."

One would hope Dr. Paul really meant to imply that all military aid to other countries, including Israel, should be ended, but the timing of his remarks leave open to question whether he meant to say that our priorities are skewed and if our "friends" shouldn't be getting more money than her "enemies."

As the son of an American soldier who made a life of serving his country, and damned proud of it, you better believe I have not forgotten the 34 dead sailors of the USS Liberty, who for my family are brothers, fathers, and sons. Between the branches of service there many bar fights and other rivalries, and always will be, but under fire, we are one. I know this criticism of Dr. Paul, who remains my candidate because he speaks for me so well on the Constitution, sound money, and in most cases, foreign policy, will be unpopular at this website. I am grateful to Dr. Paul for giving voice to common sense, and I do not jump ship over one remark. But this time, I don't give a damn. I stand with the sailors of the USS Liberty, and Israel is not, repeat not, my "close friend."

-------
http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/eedition/ch...

New revelations in attack on American spy ship
Veterans, documents suggest U.S., Israel didn't tell full story of deadly '67 incident

By John Crewdson

Tribune senior correspondent

October 2, 2007

Bryce Lockwood, Marine staff sergeant, Russian-language expert, recipient of the Silver Star for heroism, ordained Baptist minister, is shouting into the phone.

"I'm angry! I'm seething with anger! Forty years, and I'm seething with anger!"

Lockwood was aboard the USS Liberty, a super-secret spy ship on station in the eastern Mediterranean, when four Israeli fighter jets flew out of the afternoon sun to strafe and bomb the virtually defenseless vessel on June 8, 1967, the fourth day of what would become known as the Six-Day War.

For Lockwood and many other survivors, the anger is mixed with incredulity: that Israel would attack an important ally, then attribute the attack to a case of mistaken identity by Israeli pilots who had confused the U.S. Navy's most distinctive ship with an Egyptian horse-cavalry transport that was half its size and had a dissimilar profile. And they're also incredulous that, for years, their own government would reject their calls for a thorough investigation.

"They tried to lie their way out of it!" Lockwood shouts. "I don't believe that for a minute! You just don't shoot at a ship at sea without identifying it, making sure of your target!"

Four decades later, many of the more than two dozen Liberty survivors located and interviewed by the Tribune cannot talk about the attack without shouting or weeping.

Their anger has been stoked by the declassification of government documents and the recollections of former military personnel, including some quoted in this article for the first time, which strengthen doubts about the U.S. National Security Agency's position that it never intercepted the communications of the attacking Israeli pilots -- communications, according to those who remember seeing them, that showed the Israelis knew they were attacking an American naval vessel.

The documents also suggest that the U.S. government, anxious to spare Israel's reputation and preserve its alliance with the U.S., closed the case with what even some of its participants now say was a hasty and seriously flawed investigation.

...

Rear Adm. Merlin Staring, the Navy's former judge advocate general, was asked to assess the American inquiry's report before it was sent to Washington. But Staring said it was taken from him when he began to question some aspects of the report. He describes it now as "a hasty, superficial, incomplete and totally inadequate inquiry."

Staring, who is among those calling for a full congressional investigation on behalf of the Liberty's survivors, observed in an interview that the inquiry report contained several "findings of fact" unsupported by testimony or evidence.

One such finding ignored the testimony of several inquiry witnesses that the American flag was flying during the attack, and held that the "available evidence combines to indicate the attack on LIBERTY on 8 June was in fact a case of mistaken identity."

There are also apparent omissions in the inquiry's report. It does not include, for example, the testimony of a young lieutenant, Lloyd Painter, who was serving as officer of the deck when the attack began. Painter said he testified that an Israeli torpedo boat "methodically machine-gunned one of our life rafts" that had been put over the side by crewmen preparing to abandon ship.

Painter, who spent 32 years as a Secret Service agent after leaving the Navy, charged that his testimony about the life rafts was purposely omitted.

Ward Boston recalled that, after McCain's one-week deadline expired, Kidd took the record compiled by the inquiry "and flew back to Washington, and I went back to Naples," the headquarters of the 6th Fleet.

"Two weeks later, he comes back to Naples and calls me from his office," Boston recalled in an interview. "In that deep voice, he said, 'Ward, they aren't interested in the facts. It's a political issue and we have to put a lid on it. We've been ordered to shut up.'

"It's time for the truth to come out," declared Boston, who is now 84. "There have been so many cover-ups."

"Someday the truth of this will come out," said Dennis Eikleberry, a NSA technician aboard the Liberty. "Someday it will, but we'll all be gone."

James Ennes, now 74, who was officer of the deck just before the attack began, and later spent two months in a body cast, is one of the more vocal survivors. Like the others, Ennes is tired of waiting.

"We want both sides to stop lying," he said.

-------
FROM
The USS Liberty Memorial
http://www.gtr5.com/

On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.

The Attack

After surveilling USS Liberty for more than nine hours with almost hourly aircraft overflights and radar tracking, the air and naval forces of Israel attacked our ship in international waters without warning. USS Liberty was identified as a US naval ship by Israeli reconnaissance aircraft nine hours before the attack and continuously tracked by Israeli radar and aircraft thereafter. Sailing in international waters at less than five knots, with no offensive armament, our ship was not a military threat to anyone.

The Israeli forces attacked without warning and without attempting to contact us. Thirty four Americans were killed in the attack and another 174 were wounded. The ship, a $40-million dollar state-of-the-art signals intelligence platform, was later declared unsalvageable and sold for scrap.

The Cover Up
Despite a near-universal consensus that the Israeli attack was made with full knowledge that USS Liberty was a US Navy ship, the Johnson administration began an immediate cover-up of this fact. Though administration officers continued individually to characterize the attack as deliberate, the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack. Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder.

In an ongoing effort to reveal the truth about the attack, the USS Liberty Veterans Association has filed with the Secretary of the Army in the manner prescribed by law a detailed, fully documented Report of War Crimes describing the circumstances of the attack on our ship and evidence that it was a crime under international law. In accordance with international law and treaties, the United States is obligated to investigate the allegations. So far, the United States has declined even to acknowledge that the report has been filed. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.gtr5.com/evidence/warcrimes.pdf

MORE..

The USS Liberty Memorial
http://www.gtr5.com/

------
http://www.ussliberty.org/report/report.htm#_edn6

War Crimes Committed Against U.S. Military Personnel, June 8, 1967

Submitted to the Secretary of the Army in his capacity as Executive Agent for the Secretary of Defense, June 8, 2005.

This report of war crimes committed against U.S. military personnel is submitted to the Honorable Secretary of the Army in his capacity as Executive Agent for the Secretary of Defense, pursuant to Department of Defense Directive Number 5810.01B (29 March 2004) [1] .

This Report is filed by the USS Liberty Veterans Association, Inc. a California non-profit corporation, recognized by the Internal Revenue Service as a Section 501(c)(3) tax exempt veterans organization, acting on behalf of the surviving crewmembers of USS Liberty.

Background

On June 8, 1967 while patrolling in international waters[2] in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel.[3]

Of a crew of 294 officers and men[4] (including three civilians)[5], the ship suffered thirty four (34) killed in action and one hundred seventy three (173) wounded in action.[6]
--

Names of casualties

Name
Place
William B. Allenbaugh Baltimore, Md.
Philip McC. Armstrong, Jr. Detroit, Mich.
Gary R. Blanchard Wichita, Kan.
Allen M. Blue* Yakima, Wash.
Francis Brown Albany, N.Y.
Ronnie J. Campbell* Sevierville, Tenn.
Jerry L. Converse Puyallup, Wash.
Robert B. Eisenberg St. Paul, Minn.
Jerry L. Goss* North Vernon, Ind.
Curtis A. Graves* Grosse Pointe Farms, Mich.
Lawrence P. Hayden* Houston, Texas
Warren E. Hersey Philadelphia, Pa.
Alan Higgins* Weymouth, Mass.
Carl L. Hoar Mount Vernon, Ohio
Richard W. Keene, Jr. Batavia, N.Y.
James L. Lenau Washington, Mo.
Raymond E. Linn Adamsville, Ohio
James M. Lupton Shreveport, La.
Duane R. Marggraf Fond du Lac, Wis.
David W. Marlborough Waterville, Maine
Anthony P. Mendle Waterbury, Conn.
Carl C. Nygren Williamsport, Pa.
James C. Pierce Clinton, N.C.
Jack L. Raper Cedartown, Ga.
Edward E. Rehmeyer, III York, Pa.
David Skolak Gary, Ind.
John C. Smith, Jr. Ithaca, N.Y.
Melvin D. Smith Alamance, N.C.
John C. Spicher Terentum, Pa.
Alexander N. Thompson, Jr. Philadelphia, Pa.
Thomas R. Thornton Sprinfield, Ohio
Philippe C. Tiedtke Santa Cruz, Calif.
Stephen S. Toth San Diego, Calif.
Frederick J. Walton Niagara Falls, N.Y.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

This should forever remain in an infinite bump loop.

Not only not a friend, but an enemy of all humanity.

Israeli spying on the U.S.

The reality of Israeli spying is indisputable. Israel always features prominently in the annual FBI report called “Foreign Economic Collection and Industrial Espionage.” The 2005 report states, “Israel has an active program to gather proprietary information within the United States. These collection activities are primarily directed at obtaining information on military systems and advanced computing applications that can be used in Israel’s sizable armaments industry.”

It adds that Israel recruits spies, uses electronic methods, and carries out computer intrusion to gain the information. The 2005 report concluded that the thefts eroded US military advantage, enabling foreign powers to obtain expensive technologies that had taken years to develop.

http://america-hijacked.com/

Zionist or Ethnic Israel.

the tribes of Israel dispersed, traveled in different directions. Some preserved their way of life, i.e. in the east. Others, who traveled west got mixed up, lost customs and blood-line, tribal ways, adopted zionism, etc.
Here is a video lecture that explains -
Pathan (Pushtoon) Bani Israel Connection - Sociological Perspective
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYIBGuwq4vk&feature=player_em...

There are two aspects of Israel, one is religion, the second is blood, tribe, nation, customs. Religion is the same as followed by their fore-fathers Abrahem, Ishac, Yacob, and the twelve tribes, among whom all the Apostles came, right upto Zecharia, and the Maseah son of Maryum. The eastern Israeli tribes did Not reject any Apostle, they are the obedient kind, remained faithful, like Remnants.

Israel’s 1967 Holocaust of American Servicemen

Friends of the USS Liberty,

At long last, the book “What I Saw That Day…Israel’s 1967 Holocaust of American Servicemen Aboard The USS Liberty And Its Aftermath” by USS Liberty Survivor Phil Tourney is finished and available to the public in electronic media format.

“How could we have known any better? It was, after all, only about twenty years since WWII was over, and growing up in America, we had all gotten a heavy dose of how badly these people had been treated. How could we not root for poor, seemingly defenseless Israel?… –Ch 1–The Trail of Tears

“General Quarters alarm was sounded. I made my way to my duty station, which was one deck above the mess decks. After going down the ladder, I slipped and fell and found myself under the trampling feet of sailors as they made their way to their stations. I rolled over to my right side to get out of their way, got on my feet and joined the stampede to get to my station as well. I got into battle-dress and got my gear ready. “

http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/%E2%80%9Cwhat-i...

44yrs Cover-uP

Today marks 44 years since this heinous war crime was not only committed but has been covered up -- by all succeeding administrations and mainstream media. It is a "must read" for those concerned about an attack on America; the needless slaughter of American citizens. USS Liberty -
By Paul Craig Roberts.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25186

FED, = Ma$onic Cartel.

the earth is throwing up a lot of it$ secrets, and the interNet is helping to spread it, and also to filter the excess.
Read about - The Federal Reserve Cartel: Freemasons and The House of Rothschild; http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=25179

Roth$childe is the father of the zionist state, thats history, no arguments here. The letter from "His Majesty's" govt was addressed to Baron/Lord Rothschile, it is recorded as the Balfour Declaration, = led to the establishment of the 'jew' homeland in Palestine, as demanded by the Zionist International for lending support to the British war effort.
Zionism rides Masonry, Masonry rides Govts, Govts license Banks, Banks lend to Corps & Govts, Banks create Money, Money buys goods, services, guns, the word of priests, and sometimes people's soul.

Israel is no ones friend really...

and REAL Jews are bailing out of there in mass now. One thing is to be a Ortodox Jew and follow the teachings...another is to be a IMPOSTURE, using the Jewish religion as a tool and a distraction for cover of global criminality.

The people don't hate the Jewish people...they see the criminal state behind the terror and evil.

Discover Costa Rica

those of *us* who are aware of . . .

and who follow the writings/doings of such REAL Jews as Noam Chomsky and Rabbi Weiss (and too many others to mention)--

not to mention the Israeli Jews who are feeling marginalized and disenfranchized by the present government--

have to speak about this many times, and then perhaps others will begin to listen.

Dr. Paul is a good example. He has been saying the same things for 30 years!

It's a long time, and it takes patience.

I see Dr. Paul, Dr. Chomsky and Rabbi Weiss as patient men!

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

right, as correct,

you write well, is a rite, as your right,
to record observations, of your times.

Modern Terrorism,

within their inner circles they are proud of it, these deceivers say to the world that they are peace-loving.

Zionists invented Modern Terrorism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gah_cu3czvc&feature=related

and another point--

Dr. Paul goes on, after saying the "nice" thing (about everyone more or less, because he wants to be heard long enough to make his point)--

to say . . . "no foreign aid to anyone"--

James Madison Lives has done a good job of pulling together WHY foreign aid is bad/wrong/not in the best interests of anyone, anywhere who loves liberty--

The fact is that many Americans blindly support Israel while not caring very much for individual Jews. I say they are the greatest danger (those Americans who collectivistically--whew, is that a word?--support a group based upon prejudice or media manipulation)--

NOT those in every country who want freedom and self-determination, which is not what the leaders of most countries (including Israel) want them to have.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Nonsense.

What is the purpose of this post? All this over "Israel is our close friend"? Wow, how offensive of Dr Paul!

Ron Paul's comments and position are clear. Yet some people seem unable to read and think ... or they are moles, intent on providing ammo for the enemies of Liberty by crapping all over this forum with their one-sided hatred of Jews.

We should stop all foreign aid. Anyone here disagree with that?

Quoted from above, Ron Paul said:
“Israel is our close friend. While President Obama’s demand that Israel make hard concessions in her border conflicts may very well be in her long-term interest, only Israel can make that determination on her own, without pressure from the United States or coercion by the United Nations."

Does "James_Madison_Lives" think that the USA should use coercion against Israel? Is "James_Madison_Lives" a supporter of UN coercion? Or perhaps you think that the Arab countries and terrorists are OK, no problem? Perhaps "James_Madison_Lives" thinks that Dr Paul should have instead said: “Israel did 9/11. We need to apply pressure from the United States and coercion by the United Nations, to accomplish the goals of 'James_Madison_Lives'."

That you get inflamed over Israel (who isn't perfect by a long shot, they even voted themselves into socialism) yet give a pass to the several orders of magnitude worse acts of the Arabs/Muslims, reveals clearly how unbalanced and irrational is "James_Madison_Lives".

It is appalling that people use this website to promote their obvious unfounded hatred of Jews. If only we could get rid of all those Joooooozzzz! Do the same people post about Arabs strapping bombs to children and sending them into crowded places in Israel? Ever hear the story about the Duck and the Scorpion?

Go back to the pre 1967 boundaries? Wait, you probably believe that Israel attacked 50 times their own population in order to take that little bit of land. It is not Israel who has sworn to wipe all Arabs off the Earth, yet the Arab "leaders" have openly sworn exactly that with regard to Jews. After being attacked en mass by half dozen or so Arab countries, I have no problem with Israel keeping some land, and making the defeat of the Arabs sting. While you're at it, why not go back to the "1944 boundaries" of the Jews, and re-open Auschwitz?

A Jew on Arab land is under constant threat of death. An Israeli Arab is treated far better wrt Individual Rights than if he were in any Arab/Muslim country.

If the attack on the USS Liberty (and this was a terrible event) were truly in character for Israel, then why must you go back over 40 years, why not give an ongoing list? Obviously this was a once only event. There are no ongoing attacks by Israel on America. Of all the Middle Eastern countries, who responded how after 9/11? The Muslims/Arabs CELEBRATED - and Israel wept. And perhaps you should mention some of the massive list of terror attacks the Arabs/Muslims have done. Or, you could just blame Israel for all of the Arab/Muslim terror attacks! Hell, just blame everything on the Jews. Central Banking, 9/11 ... hey did you know that the Jews attacked Hitler in 1939? Or course you did! (Hitler claimed this; it was "the Jews" in Poland trying to grab German land! ... no doubt you are on board.) More likely the attack on the USS Liberty was an act, not of "the Jooooooozzzzzz", but of the central bankers, trying to drag us into yet another war, such as the THREE that we are now in. Far fetched? No, absolutely characteristic!

I like Israel, but we should not be subsidizing them, Israel is more than capable of taking care of themselves. I abhor the Arab / Muslim countries, subsidizing them is utterly insane. We are sending 4 times more money to Arabia than to Israel. Israel is a friend. If Israel is a threat to you, yet you don't mention many and worse and ongoing acts of the Arab/Muslim countries, what does that say about you?

What we must do is clear. Stop all foreign aid. Stop all of OUR wars of aggression (No, we do not need to be attacking anyone, not even the insane Arab/Muslim countries). Bring home all of our troops around the world. Stop all support of American military bases not on American soil.

Instead, your focus is on one uncharacteristic event, 44 years ago, for one reason only - you don't have any damned clue.

your writing is . . .

collectivistic, too. James Madison Lives . . . makes a valid point. As a statesman, Ron Paul says things like what he said. HE has a right to say "Israel (any other country *you* want to stick in there) is our friend"; he can say that. He is speaking publicly, and THEN he makes his point that Israel (and any other country) has a right to self-determination.

James Madison Lives could be any of us who:

--are tired of being collectivistically included as warmongering Americans

--tired of being taxed to death

--tired of losing more freedoms here in American every day--

WHO ARE *our* friends? Who even are *we*? We are NOT a collective. Most of us on here (I do include myself) respect Dr. Paul and like to keep an eye on him, like his 'mission' to educate.

But *I* don't classify myself as . . . I'm going to coin a new word for the anti-freedom tea party hijack . . . neo-patriots for ANY country.

Israel is not unified any more than America is. There is a pretty steady group of conformists in each country who don't question their leaders, I am sure. But there ARE Jews/Israelis who are speaking up and do not like what their leaders are doing.
There was a link yesterday, which basically got 'trolled' into a 'you don't like Jews if you approve of what these people (Israelis who are protesting) are doing'--

which I thought was pretty sad, as anyone who tries to stand up for principle in any country *should* have support from people who, generally, appreciate liberty (DPers)--

and again today, another link, FROM an Israeli source--about how many Jews are considering that they might be safer in Europe.

So--

collectivizing does no good for the cause of true liberty, and as I read James Madison Lives I thought he was making a valid point. HE doesn't have to consider any nation *his* friend. Let Dr. Paul represent himself; he does a fine job of it.

Let these Israelies who DARE not to be collectivistic themselves . . .

be cheered for their courage.

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

very fair,

thanks, for adding clarity to the message of true liberty, no collectivism, where one has the right to speak for one-self, while respecting the same right of others.
Some jokers put -negatives to your post, without comment or reply, we could not see what is at issue.

well, thank you . . .

emotions do get 'hot' with regards to the middle east and the collectivization which runs along religious lines.

I find little support in the world for Jews who go against the collectivist grain, and I find them to be intelligent and VERY admirable people! And when I try to talk about such people, I get told I am 'against' Jews. ?

I do get very, very weary of nationalistic generalization and collectivization--

to the point where I feel I ought to write out one post about the 'evils' (LOL!) of collectivization and just copy it now and again--

:)

Thanks for noticing. Some of my heroes are Jewish 'thinkers' who go against the 'grain', and I have a hunch that many people even on DP who 'claim' to be pro-Israel would NOT like these people I respect so much!

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Individual Responsibility,

thanks for your appreciation, its encouraging.
Your feeling re - 'evils' of collectivization, do write about it, you can emphasize "individual responsibility". As in a test - the results are based on the merits of each. Or when a vote is cast, each one counts, though it is collected for the chosen candidate. This is how true liberty is understood, by staying upright. But many want to escape responsibility, and take the 'easy' route, gradually or quickly they start leaning without verification. All of us have the tendency to lean towards what appeals to us, but the support should be reserved for Liberty, and the eternal Truths that are tried and tested, held universally. This takes burning some oil, for light and discernment. May you find more strength.

bump

up

Jackson County Georgia

War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses.
Thomas Jefferson

Bump!

To keep the important facts about the treachery of Israel up on top of the page.

The anniversary of the vicious Israeli attack on the USS Liberty approaches.

Bilderberg, uncle of Israel

Bilderberg 2011: Background, Preview and Predictions
http://tv.globalresearch.ca/2011/06/bilderberg-2011-backgrou...

about 29 ....

Completely shaven head.

German punk rock grunge.

Basement dweller.

How close am I?

.

double post.

I keep waiting for this to go into off topic ...

And yet, here it still sits.

Coming from Ron Paul a

Coming from Ron Paul a comment like "Isreal is our friend" doesn't matter, because he wouldn't use the force of government to favor a supposed friend over anyone else. Friend or not... border disputes should be settled by the parties directly involved. Not by the US. If RP had said "Isreal is our enemy", it would have had exactly zero impact on his idea of foreign policy.

Nothing wrong with his choice of words.

Saying a statement that is true should not be any issue.

Israel is our friend, as drunk and off balance as they are.

Regardless of anything going on in the "relationship", it is true we remain friends with the Israeli people.

But we have entangled alliances with NO ONE, especially Israel or Egypt or Damascus. That is plain and simple the only way to do foreign policy.

Governments are notoriously corrupt and Rand Paul knows this to the letter. If the Israeli government wants to commit a lot of illegal crimes, extortion or fraud we'll call them and Egypt out on the carpet.

Particularly anything to do with fascism, New World Orders or absolutely appalling civil rights abuses.

That is what "FRIENDS" do, naturally! And no we don't need entangled alliances with anyone...large or small...any nation can handle & resolve their own issues.

That's like putting a gun to a bunch of people's heads and telling them how to behave, because we know what's best. No thanks. Cut the Foreign Aid packages right off.

How can one be friends with

How can one be friends with an entire nation? Isn't that collectivist thinking?

Sounds kind of odd when you think about it, everybody who lives within these lines on a map and holds similar pieces of paper with their names on them is your friend, even if you haven't met all of them. What if some of those people who are your "friends" are jerks, or they hate you?

That makes about as much sense as saying an entire nation is your enemy.

Israel is my friend? Iran is my enemy? Yeah right, I ain't falling for that one!

Collectivist rubbish!

yes, it is collectivist--

but Dr. Paul is being diplomatic, so he can go on to say that each nation has a right to determine for *that nation", without interference (or aid) from any other nation.

He's being "nice", and that's one of the reasons I like him. I've never heard him use ugly language.

None of these nations are *my* friend! And . . . I'm quite certain America is not *my* friend!

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Interesting. Lots of resistance to repeating the mantra

at Tea Party websites, people questioning giving Bibi standing ovations.

A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali

it IS 'all right' for those of *us* who . . .

while being Americans value liberty above all else and like to discuss things on DP--

to be incensed about what happened with American congresspeople and Netanyahu a few weeks ago!

It was wrong.

I would love to be able to get those 5,000 protesters (Israeli) from Tel Aviv over--

I would like to see them symbolically . . . facing those ridiculous and disloyal Congresspeople--

and telling them how many Israelis REALLY feel!

But, if someone tries to post about some Israelis not being happy with Netanyahu the discussions turn into diatribes against Americans who question that America should be putting Israel (or any other country) ahead of its own interests--

or who questions that Israel is a truly unified nation--

Jews around the world ARE waking up, as are many Americans of *whatever* religious belief (or nonbelief)--

and it's refreshing--truly something to celebrate. The dishonest among the leaders of the world WILL fall--

*cheering for Israelis who want freedom for themselves and others--and stating my right to be disturbed by what happened in Washington, D.C. when a leader of a non-American nation was cheered for aggressive language not in the best interests of *his* "own" people*

it's hard to be awake; it's easier to dream--

Useful Info -

ckpac, thanks, the interNet is so helpful in spreading the message, to share, inform those who were/are unaware of dangers,= demons lurking within human society. The link provides scripture, history, education, reflects even on our days, the games of the impostors.

Where did Dr. Paul say the Israeli GOVERNMENT

is our close friend? Israel is a nation of PEOPLE. The people in government are one small subset of a larger population. I consider them generally our friends. They share similar values, in respect to support for substantial amount of liberty compared to surrounding countries over there and more capitalistic than any other in the area. Because of the values of the Israeli people, they are an island of relative liberty in a sea of oppression. This is unlike most of the people of the surrounding countries who don't stand up for liberty and capitalism, and believe in terrorism as legitimate.

Rants like the above is what turns people off to Ron Paul supporters.

Let's see you go off on a rant about how bad the anti-capitalist anti-liberty governments of the surrounding countries are.

Dr. Paul doesn't think 9/11 was an inside job, isn't a Birther, supports intellectual property, doesn't believe in chemtrails, doesn't believe the Fema camp conspiracy theory, doesn't believe the Moon landing was faked, says Israel is a "close friend," su