7 votes

Why has the Patriot Act NOT been declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL?

Watching this video of Rand Paul speaking about the Patriot Act, it is obvious that this "Act" is totally UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!

Why has it not been challenged in court and found to be NULL AND VOID??

There must be at least 1 lawyer or group in America that could challenge this "law"!!!




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There is a corrupt system in place

That system is comprised of a fairly small number of people. I'd say about 6,000 tops. Under them are lemmings who have been indoctrinated into a belief to follow orders from their corrupt "leaders".

It seems to me that 6000 bad seeds could easily be eliminated by a few million Americans.. It's getting time to simply eradicated the cancer of the world. It is clear who they are.

Constitution? What Constitution?

http://www.amazon.com/Who-Killed-Constitution-American-Liber...

Rothbard: "Bipartisan: both parties acting in concert to put both of their hands in your pocket."

meekandmild's picture

If you have been abused by the Patriot act

File a Title 42 USC §1983
Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. For the purposes of this section, any Act of Congress applicable exclusively to the District of Columbia shall be considered to be a statute of the District of Columbia.

Come on Vince

Walk the walk:) File a Title 42

"Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
Mark Twain

This video explains why!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l37RhdFGVsM

Lesson 1 - Revisiting American History, documents the conversion of the US into a monolithic financial empire as the Federal Reserve Act created a monopolized cartel of private interests, "Wall Street," that controls all money in the system. This killed Jeffersonian ideals and allowed vertical Hamiltonian forces to have free reign to consolidate power and wealth. It explains how this is an empire system where the top Wall Street banks are analogous to feudal lords and multi-national corporations are their feudal knights out conquering territories. It rewrites American History books.

PLEASE!!!

Stop confusing "Attorneys" aka "BAR members" with Lawyers.

They are most definitely NOT lawyers. A lawyer studies law. An attorney "practices" how to screw you over and take your hard earned cash - then serve you up to the FOR-PROFIT prisons.

http://www.dailypaul.com/269892/our-justice-system-has-been-...

Now either learn law or get back out there and pick more cotton.

...and don't forget to REGISTER TO VOTE!

Even if you do believe in "mob rule" aka "democracy" then why do you even bother voting KNOWING the votes are not counted in FULL PUBLIC VIEW? WHY ARE YOU WASTING YOUR TIME?

Because of the association ONE TRILLION DOLLARS...

...in government contracts and the money those corps use to lobby with and contribute to congressional campaigns.

ecorob's picture

Simple answer.

Our Supreme Court Justices have failed us. They have not just failed us, they have failed us miserably to the point of socialism creeping into our society.

The Judicial Branch is supposed to be the "thinking" branch of government, the theoretical protector of liberty. Really? Once Bush2 crowned Justice Roberts King of the Justices without so much as a wimper from the sitting, miserably failed judges, we were screwed.

We were already screwed by a Judicial Branch that was much less, an acting third of the power of the most powerful government on earth, and more of an apparatus of the global powers that be.

Sad that our Judicial Branch, those men and women of supposed wisdom, got lost in the swirl of pomp and circumstance. Sad that we can not depend on them to make the right decisions for America and her Constitution.

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

100% agree

But I've always wondered why We the People don't have a vote in the most important matters i.e. monetary policy, going to war, global technology applications, etc.

It's because of Judges and things like Executive Orders or State Secret Clauses.

So much for O'bummers transparency campaign. Heyoooo.

Lima-1, out.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

I agree, it just seem that there must be a better or simpler

way to challenge a law that is obviously unconstitutional (without waiting for the gov to make a move on you using that law)

Could an attorney general of a state sue the feds that the law is unconstitutional?

or say a group, like the ACLU? like a class action?(with the class being the taxpayers/citizens?)

Better to ask why

haven't we the people demanded our State legislators interpose on our behalf, like they're supposed to do and pass bills calling the Patriot Act unconstitutional and as such null and void.

_____________________________

Defend Liberty, for Liberty
Vote for President Ron Paul 2012
http://ksa4liberty.com

Must have a court case...

in which one is prosecuted using provisions in the patriot act for a judge to declare it unconstitutional. Hasn't happened yet because the "law enforcement" agencies won't allow it to get to that point.

The answer is here !! I heard it from Judge Napolitano himself

The Govenment has dropped cases so this will not come to court. They know it is unconstitutional. We need someone to bring a case !!!

"Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled."
Mark Twain

The Simple Answer To Your Question Is:

The U.S. Government has been taken over by those that believe in a centralized government.
Formerly known as Communists !

beesting

ecorob's picture

simply...

correct!

its 'cos I owe ya, my young friend...
Rockin' the FREE world in Tennessee since 1957!
9/11 Truth.

Incentives

Why has it not been challenged in court and found to be NULL AND VOID??

Think about the incentive of an institution who has the final say on the meaning of the constitution.

Do they have the incentive to decide to grant themselves more power or less power?

Why give one institution a monopoly on the interpretation of the law?

Listen to this 16 min. interview with Lew Rockwell and Hans Hoppe.

if they have no incentive to uphold the rule of law....

per, the Constitution.... Then why are we even attempting to fight this legally?
Why not start planning the wholesale elimination of the corrupt system or the corrupt elements inside of it(judges, etc)?

There must be some good judges, etc out there that actually care about rule of law, and take it seriously. Since this is a federal law, it would seem that to look for federal judges that have a good rule of law track record would be the best place to start. Then any Federal lawsuit would /should be initiated in that particular federal district.(so that judge would hear the case)

According to Wiki:

"Since its passage, several legal challenges have been brought against the act, and Federal courts have ruled that a number of provisions are unconstitutional."

I guess they can't just hear cases on the entire Patriot Act and declare it unconstitutional in total - they can only pick away at it bit by bit.

Sad - and sick -what these legislators did and are doing today.

why?

because as George Carlin said the Status Quo has us by the balls.

LL on Twitter: http://twitter.com/LibertyPoet
sometimes LL can suck & sometimes LL rocks!
http://www.dailypaul.com/203008/south-carolina-battle-of-cow...
Love won! Deliverance from Tyranny is on the way! Col. 2:13-15

Standing

Under the US legal system, you cannot simply start bringing lawsuits because you want a court to review a law, or you feel this is wrong, or that should be changed or you disagree with what Congress has done.

Such cases will be dismissed sumarily and not heard, and the court can hold the person bringing such cases liable for all costs plus possibly sanctions, regardless of the substance of whether the challeneged law is legit or not.

In the U.S., one must have actually been directly and individually harmed by the law in order to challenge it. That is, they must have what courts call standing.

The problem with the Patriot Act is that if you have been violated, you never know. You will never know that you have standing. Bureacrats may have reviewed all your text messages, all your emails, all your telephone records, listened in to your telephone calls, roving wiretaps, reviewed all your debit transactions, all your credit card charges, who are your health care providers are, what medications you are taking, where you have travelled or will travel, where you made purchases and on what, etc., but you still have no idea your privacy, liberty and rights are being violated. They may have a list of your purchases, know how many guns you bought or how much ammo, who you associate with, your religion and church, whether you drink or smoke and how much, what books you buy or are reading, what websites you frequent, what internet searches you have run, know if you are buying alternative health treatments and supplements, know who or what you are donating to, for example if you have donated to drug legalization, or medical marijuana, or Palestinian humanitarian aid, or pro-life or pro-choice groups, or Wikileaks, or EFF, or the Institute for Justice, or the ACLU, or if you have made large storable food purchases or water filtration, or home farming or food prepration and storage equipment or anything that might indicate "hoarding" (foresight and preparation are villified as "hoarding" whenever governments choose to confiscate what you have - so much for the lessons of the parable of the grasshopper and the ants).

All this can occur and you would still not have standing because you do not know that some bureacrats are doing all this. Under the Patriot Act it is all done outside the court system. It is a catch 22 for challenging. You know these tools are being used against people but you cannot prove specifically who and so noone has standing to challenge the law. If the bureaucrats doing the spying and data collection find evidence for a criminal case, they then go and get a warrant and then seize the information and bring a case. They hide the use of Patriot Act violations by trying to legitimize the evidence by getting a search warrant after the fact of the Patriot Act violations. Thus not only the countless number of innocent citizens who are violated cannot bring a challenge, but the few instances where criminal evidence is actually found a challenge still cannot even be brought because the defendent still has no idea the Patriot Act was used. So even where there are prosecutions, the individual does not even know the Patriot Act was involved.

It is a heinous law that does not lend itself to the ability for judicial remedy. One would be hard pressed to specifically design a system that would be more conducive to promoting abuse. Even the widely condemned Enabling Acts of Germany's Third Reich were more open and transparent than the USA's Patriot Act. The Patriot Act is a system that guarantee's abuse.

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl

thanks for this answer!

It would seem that by now at least one case where someone got screwed by the Pat. Act would have made its way through multiple court cases.

But as you pointed out, you cant even know if they are spying on you....

You are exactly right

The courts do not like to hear victimless crimes, but will gladly do so if there is a profit in subjecting citizens to the same. It is blatantly corrupt and the constitution and set rules of law no longer exist. So far as standing is concerned, any judge in any case can dismiss and claim you have no standing simply to railroad you and your case, and they do it frequently now days.

Always remember:
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds." ~ Samuel Adams
If they hate us for our freedom, they must LOVE us now....

Stay IRATE, remain TIRELESS, an

Millions of men, women and children

being groped at airports seem like enough "injured parties" to bring a court action. And we see it everyday.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is argument of tyrants. It is the creed of slaves." William Pitt in the House of Commons November 18, 1783
"I have one word for you...predator drones. Oh, you think I'm kidding?" Obombya

Yup, plenty of standing for

Yup, plenty of standing for TSA actions and there are lawsuits pending over TSA policies, but TSA actions and policies are not under the Patriot Act, and provide no standing for challenging the even more insidious, covert and surreptitious violations through the Patriot Act. Good thinking, but the poster here asked about challenging the Patriot Act, not TSA procedures.

Let it not be said that we did nothing.-Ron Paul
Stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone.-Sophia Magdalena Scholl

This is why...

This is why we need to abolish absolute and qualified immunities.They need to be open for civil suits just like the rest of us.They should not be above the law.

If I disappear from a discussion please forgive me. My 24-7 business requires me to split mid-sentence to serve them. I am not ducking out, I will be back later to catch up.

maybe it's because the USC has been null/void since Appomattox

and Congress and the "Supreme" Court have since come to be riddled with liars, traitors, thieves, sadists, & psychopaths ?
Just a thought.

you mean this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Appomattox_Court_House

http://www.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/va097.htm

while it is true that the Supremes are riddles with liars, traitors, thieves, sadists, etc...

I didnt think that would stop lawyers/etc from attempting a lawsuit to shut down the Patriot Act as illegal.

(yes, a couple provisions were declared unconstitutional several years ago, but not the whole thing)

Well it seems that besides Rand Paul,....

The Judge agrees that it is... And since he is a Judge, why in the hell is he or anyone for that matter, not suing the feds on the grounds that it is unconstitutional??

Judge Napolitano: Why The Patriot Act is Unconstitutional.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNRSs6LsGeI

I mean its been how many years now?

A patriotic duty: repeal the Patriot Act
This draconian law was never about public safety. Americans' constitutional liberties have been trashed for the war on drugs

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/may/...

Sen. Paul condemns Patriot Act as unconstitutional
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/162747-sen-paul...