Ron Paul running 3rd Party would "Sink the Republican Nominee".
Submitted by NCMarc on Sun, 12/23/2007 - 23:00
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2007/12/ron_paul_flip_fl...
I just had a thought we can use against these people that ask the 3rd Party question all the time....
Why do they ask it? Are they worried if he does do it, that it will cause someone to lose?
According to the above article, Ron Paul would **sink** the GOP nominee if he ran as a 3rd party..
But wait! I thought he was "no where in the polls" and he's a "fringe" candidate "barely registering" and a "long shot"
So why is it that he could so easily hurt the GOP? Hmmm..
MAYBE BECAUSE HE'S GOT WAY MORE SUPPORT THAN THEY WANT TO ADMIT? IS THAT IT YOU MORONS?
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We could blackmail the GOP LOL
We could blackmail the GOP LOL tell them if they don't get us the nomination we will run for a 3rd party candidate and the GOP will not win.... =) At least with Paul running they will have a chance.
When this issue comes up, I
When this issue comes up, I always respond: If Ron Paul does not win the nomination, who cares? This country is F***K*D and that's the end of it! So what do I care if he sinks the Republican party? If he doesn't sink BOTH parties, we might as well take a slow boat to China, because they'll be better off than us.
www.paulforronpaul.com
I agree: Sink the Republican Party if RP Doesn't Lead It
Either give RP the nomination or control of the candidate vetting process (almost more important). Otherwise sink the Republican Party.
If RP does not place in the top 3 in Iowa or NH, I hope the campaign makes it clear that we will not go quietly.
Guys like the "American Thinker" assume that we are not even Republicans and/or would assume that those Republicans among us would accept the eventual nominee.
But they have not read the book "The Elephant in the Room".
Why call it 3rd party
Why cal it 3rd party. As of tonight; either Lou Dobbs or Mike Bloomberg is going to run for President; with their national standing; they will be given the title of "3rd party" by the media; that is how I see it.
I hope Ron runs 4th party if he does not win the Rep nom. He will take away from both sides. He does need to expand his message to cover everyday bread and butter issues, that is, if he wants to expand his base.
He does need a real deal Veep running mate.
For now; full speed ahead until Feb 5th. Write letters to voters in NH and Iowa, canvass; donate what you can; write letters to the editors; wave signs; each day try to tell someone about our effort.
The challenge on December 24th, 2007 is that 70% of the country has not heard very much about Ron. Many have never heard of him because they are so busy working or they just are not tuned into politics yet.
Thanks to everyone who has worked so hard for the Constitution; have a Blessed Christmas.
Each of us needs to consider running for Congress or Senate on either the Constitution, Anmerican or Lib party.
They don't seem to understand
The problem they have is that Ron Paul not winning the nomination and staying home will sink the party. The GOP is on its last legs. Why don't they understand this? Never mind if he runs as a third party. They're f-ed if they don't nominate him.
"What does conservatism today stand for? It stands for war. It stands for power. It stands for spying, jailing without trial, torture, counterfeiting without limit, and lying from morning to night."
Lew Rockwell
"American Thinker"??? More like "American Brainwashed Thinker"
Wow that guy must be drinking the Sean Hannity Neo Con Kool Aid. He used the typical brainwashed Neo Con buzz words like "leftists", "retreat" and "surrender". It's hard for me to believe that anyone still thinks we're in Iraq to win it. We destroyed the Iraqi military in 3 weeks. Yet 4 years later and we can't kill off a handful of terrorists? It's clear as day to anyone with an IQ over 30 that we are not trying to win it. They want this war to go on and on because a lot of people are making money off of it. Man there are some stupid people out there.
We Will Retake the Republican Party or Destroy It: One or Other
Regarding the Iraq War, which I believe was the right thing to do, I would say the Neocons are not TRYING to win it because a lot of people are making money off of it and the idiots running the Republican Party are relying on fear of Islamic fascists to keep themselves, mostly feminist evangelists, in power. The "American Thinker" (at Elvenstar522 at aol.com) seems to be one of those married males who thinks we need a macho Islamofascist Fighter in the White House and outrageously assumes that RP supporters are left wing and the rest of us Republican males (who might be thinking about RP) will settle down and accept someone like Romney or (gasp) Huckleberry once RP gets trounced in the primaries.
But that is not going to happen. Even if RP never climbs higher than 12% in the primaries...that only means that RP would accept the LP nomination on Memorial Day with a good chunk of supporters ALL of whom would stick with him.
In the summer of 2008, regardless of whether RP is still in contention for a brokered September Rep Convention in Minneapolis, RP would be financed and running in the 15% range vs Hillary's 35% and the Rep leader's 25% say.
At that point, Republicans like the "American Thinker" are going to have to face a stark blackmail choice:
1) Give the nomination to RP or lose to Hillary 40%, 25%, 15% (whatever Bloomberg gets will come out of Hillary and RP's voters but RP will definitely take more away from the Reps than the Dems),
OR
2) Give RP control of the RNC and all organizations that vet Congressional Republican candidates.
The latter needs to happen around February (and Howard Dean did exactly this 4 years ago). If I were RP, I would be looking to place well enough in the Primaries to be able to blackmail the Republican Party into giving him control of who is allowed to run for any office as a Republican.
If the current Republican leaders resist, there will be no more Republican Party winning any race including local dogcatcher.
Having said that, if the Republican Party opts for choice #2 giving RP control of vetting new Republican candidates...they will still lose the Presidency in 2008 because none of us are going to vote for the likes of Romney, McCain, Huckleberry or Julie Annie unless they completey change their tune to one of small government and individual rights.
My own personal response...
A couple of co-workers who are loyal to the GOP have brought this up to me several times saying, "Well if Ron doesn't win the nomination and goes third party don't you realize that would insure the Democrats win?!"
My response..."Well, I guess that means you guys had better make SURE he's the GOP nominee then, right ?!"
Precisely: Other Republicans Don't Understand this is Blackmail
Without actually using the word "blackmail", if the first two primaries do not put RP in the top 3, I would get the message out to all Republicans that they either vote for individual rights or lose in 2008.
Two messages need to be played:
1) Yes, we are real Republicans who voted for Bush in 2004
2) No, we will not "get behind" Huckabee or Julie Annie or Romney if one such candidate somehow clinches the nomination on February 5th.
I would even say that the Republicans need to replace Norm Coleman and Gordon Smith and John Sununu who are backstabbing socialist Republicans up for reelection as Republican senators.
But it is probably too late to get proper candidates for other offices.
Best Video I can Imagine to convert Huck's followers
Below, Our member by name Penguin, has posted what has to be the best video I can possibly imagine to convert the evangelical crowds to RP message. It is a Minister giving his congregation a COMPLETE sermon on how the Fed Res came to be, what is does, what it means to the US citizen, the WHOLE nine yards. Minister Rod Parsley. He seems to have many youtube videos, as well as interviews on Faux and friends. There is a video on the Hate Crimes Legislation on youtube also. This is the kind of minister that should be running for president. This is the kind of minister that Hucks supporters should hear from.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3051024550497129264&...
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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
Ron, just say "No"
Out here in California, all of us who plan to vote for Ron Paul in the state's primary election are registered Republicans (switch now if you have not done so). Unfortunately, state law prohibits registered Independents / 3rd Party voters to vote Republican in the primary, hence, a no-go for Ron.
Ron, be true to your word and stay the course.
"I should'a brought a bigger boat."
I think you missed the point
If after you and everyone votes in all their respective state primaries, Ron Paul does not win the Republican nomination then he could run as a 3rd party for president in the General election.
because of Nader
One of the few things these folks are very sure of is their belief that Ralph Nader, by siphoning off a bit of the stubborn I-want-someon-not-corrupt vote, Cost the Democrats The Election. They like to talk about it and do the math. It makes them feel like sophisticated analysts.
If it's Hillary or Obama alot of democrats don't like them
Obama is a problem for many non black Americans theres alot who would never vote for a black .Clinton is despised by many and Ron Paul Running third party would draw alot of people who are tired of both cannidates
He'd split the Democrat vote
He'd split the Democrat vote too.
ok I suck at writing
The point is splitting the vote to make the REAL winner loose!!! Who really is pushing this ? I want my Republican nominee (Ron Paul) to win but he can't if the vote gets split. Worse yet, who is pushing and getting to change who should win?? Really think about that for a minute, then remember if somebody is trying to do this then they are as sure as I am that Ron Paul will win.
Penguin
AWESOME video you posted below! It should be posted to EVERY blog that has even one Huck supporter. The idea is that we have to get so much support that the vote CANNOT be split. And that's the bottom line. And it won't be easy, but then a rag tag militia defeated the most powerful army in the world 230 years ago.
LET'S ALL GET THAT VIDEO OUT!!!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3051024550497129264&...
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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" B.Bunny "Scwewy Wabbit!"E. Fudd
People's Awareness Coalition: Deprogramming Sequence
I don't follow you.
But, yes, they are afraid he's going to win, that's why they attack him so much.
Hi Dmite
The minister shows in his sermon how we were split to support what the bankers needed for an election to create the federal reserve. He shows how we were made slaves to them with that election. The same thing is happening again. Paul is what we all want but that would hurt the profits the banks make every day, much more than the almost $2 billion a day the minister talks about back in 2003! Can you imagine how much the FED would loose if we didn't borrow that money? Can you imagine how much, just on Social security alone, would be lost for that private company if Paul saves the Social security but cutting spending?! We are talking a loss that could delist most public traded companies. That is why you hear 3rd party for Paul, next will be a 2nd person running after Paul wins hands down. Do you see what I'm saying (I',m a lousy writer so no is very valid)?
You want to know why then look at how we got the FED
Sorry it is a long video but follow the facts & figures, it isn't anything new.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3051024550497129264&...
That's why you split the vote in one party to elect the person you want in the other party. That's pretty sad, I mean I know the talk is Hillary but lets be honest and realize Obama is going to get the nomination. So I wonder who is really behind him?
Maybe
The reason they ask it is because in the past when someone ran in a third party, it got nowhere and they are hoping people will associate him with that idea. However, in the past when someone ran as a third party, they had not first run from one of the two parties and garnered a huge amount of support to take with them into a third party. So maybe they are thinking that was his plan all along and they can get him on that and discredit him as ever being a Republican. I don't think they know exactly why they are asking him, except if he will commit one way or another, they can say he broke his commitment if he changes. In other words, they are just worried about his support and trying their dead level best to get him either coming or going.
That's why Russert pushed
That's why Russert pushed him on it today... he said, "That's a legal term..." Really Russert?
Why GOP
I think Ron has equal power to siphon votes from both democrats and republicans because his message is non-partisan. They need to get a grip on the fact that the people voting for Ron would not be voting AT ALL if it wasn't for him.
http://montana4ronpaul.com/
third party
I think if Ron Paul ran as a third party canidate I think he would win. I know I am a republican and I was going to vote Obama till I started doing a little research. After a little research and nagging from my brother I found out about Ron Paul. I can't even shut up about Ron Paul I guess he affected me alot. I know the people offshore must be sick of hearing me preach Ron Paul but they all bitch about the same things. You show me one man in the offshore oil and gas industry that doesn't bitch about taxes and i'll show you one run off man.
He probably wouldn't be able to get on the ballot
in all 50 states
Ballot access no problem
He's got a donor list that is 100,000+ strong and almost $20M this quarter alone. If you gave him money, I'm willing to bet you'll sign a petition and possibly even camp outside your local grocery store gathering signatures. 3rd party ballot access would be no problem.
one word: Oklahoma
Getting on the ballot in Oklahoma takes a lot of signatures and anyone who is collecting petition signatures who is not from Oklahoma can be arrested. An arbitrary amount of available money might not be enough to pull it off.
Furthermore there are states with so-called sore loser laws that prevent a candidate who loses in a primary from running again in the same election cycle for a different party or as an independent. (If course if he won that state, could he then switch? There is no sore-winner law is there? Furthermore, when you vote for president you are technically voting for a slate of electors and those would be different people if you switched parties. So maybe the sore loser laws don't apply to presidential candidates.) This really is a murky mess so simple stating that it is "no problem" is naive.
Having said that, if there is a brokered convention where Ron Paul has the most delegate votes but the other candidates team up to select someone else, then the outrage of the citizenry might be sufficient to get Ron Paul elected as an independent or third party candidate anyway. I think that is the "1 in a 1000" scenario that Dr. Paul wants to keep open as a possibility so that he can threaten to play that card to help him get over the top in a brokered convention.
Just my opinions...
Good point, about the
Good point, about the brokered convention. I hope the GOP does not try to steal victory away from RP, but they just might. And if they manage to do it, I hope he runs 3rd party and wins.