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President could invoke the 14th Amendment

This is a good topic for debate here on the Daily Paul. I eagerly anticipate your comments to this article regarding the 14th amendment. Is this amendment being interpreted correctly or is it a stretch?

Is The Debt Ceiling Unconstitutional?
Some Say Default Violates 14th Amendment

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Amid fears the United States risks default if lawmakers don't raise the debt ceiling on time, some are suggesting President Obama could save the day by big-footing Congress.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/money/28406058/detail.html



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What is being stretched here is credulity.

They can't read the plain language of the Constitution.

Only Congress has the power to "Borrow Money on the Credit of the United States."

The debt limit law is part of that power. They have delegated authority to borrow to pay the expenditures of the U.S. as long as it doesn't go over a certain aggregate amount.

This law does not in any way prevent the President or the Tres. Sec. from paying any debt.

It prevents them from pyramiding debt over a certain amount.

The only thing that will change, is that the President can't issue NEW debt to pay the OLD debt. He just has to pay the old debt outright. This will of course squeeze federal spending elsewhere.

But that is the whole point.

If that's the case and the US

If that's the case and the US gov must pay whether or not it can borrow more money, then that must mean hyperinflation is on the horizon. They will simply print in order to pay the bills.

Also, about the 14th, could foreign lenders be considered some sort of act of insurrection or rebellion against the U.S. in that they are knowingly lending us money that we will not be able to repay, therefore putting us into a very bad and risky financial situation? Sure, our politicians have done it to us, but the foreign lenders are aiding them. Maybe all that debt is void.

In that case, maybe hyperinflation or maybe war...

...

If Libya is "our enemy"

Then yes. the 14th amendment can technically strip Obama of office holding. Giving aide to foreign enemies =stripping the president of office.

Obviously the two guys who

Obviously the two guys who came up with this have absolutely no understanding of the English language, sentence structure, and logic, are probably smoking controlled substances, have brain damage and/or severe mental retardation, and are suffering from schizophrenia, and must be space aliens, because they pulled this load of crap out of an orifice which human beings don't have!

I don't even understand where they got this twisted notion from, and I've read the sentence twenty times in a row, and I still don't see it.

"The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned."

Let's break down this sentence:

"The validity..."

Whether or not it has to be paid back.

"...of the public debt of the United States,..."

Money that Congress has borrowed.. says nothing about money that Congress will or might borrow. Debts only refer to past tense. If it is the future, then it is credit.

"...authorized by law,..."

Congress acted under their authority in 1 US Const. §8 and by Congressional vote, decided to lawfully borrow the money.

"...including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion..."

If you served the US government suppressing insurrection or rebellion, and you are entitled to a pension for suppressing insurrection or rebellion(i.e., military personnel) or you are entitled to a bounty for suppressing insurrection or rebellion.

"...shall not be questioned."
It has to be paid back.

In other words, If Congress legally voted under their constitutional authority to borrow money to pay you a pension for suppressing insurrection or rebellion, or a bounty for suppressing insurrection or rebellion, then they have to pay back the money they borrowed to do so.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Second graders are taught basic sentence structure, sheesh!

This amendment has to do with the civil war, and has absolutely nothing to do with social security unless you're smoking crack.

Even if we go so far as to ignore the inclusio unius est exclusio alterius doctrine, that is, what is not included is otherwise excluded, the sentence translates as follows:

If Congress legally voted under their constitutional authority to borrow money, then they have to pay back the money they borrowed to do so.

Again, this applies to debts incurred, voted on by Congress.

Social Security and Medicare are not debts, they're entitlements, coerced gifts from We The People, which can be taken away at any time. Courts have ruled time and time again that Social Security and Medicare contributions, in spite of the constructive language, are taxes, not contributions, and regardless if they were, they still don't qualify as public debt.

The basic rule is that unless there's a treasury bond issued, there's no debt, regardless of whether people think the government owes them something, which it does not.

Whats laughable

is when have they ever respected anything the constitutions says anyway?

Nice break down...

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.

I say bomb the shite out of every Country on the planet

then claim bankruptcy. This would be as good as it gets.

how about it MR. President?

According to this logic

We can purpetuate this indebtedness for ever....

The onlything it fails to address is what if countries will not loan to us anymore. Just because we raise the celing doesn't mean all is well.

On another notion congress could use the same logic and say we ARE protecting the interest by LETTING it default.

For Freedom!
The World is my country, all mankind is my brethren, to do good is my religion.