My "Pro-War" friend could not respond to my reply.
Submitted by MrBill on Mon, 12/24/2007 - 14:33
The man is 49 years old. He has a son and daughter. One is 19, the other 21.
He is a Neo-con/Pro-War all the way. Anything RP says about leaving Iraq(and against attacking Iran), he's a coward, nuts, etc....
I got mad. Really mad( I am a DAV.. I did my time years ago).
I told him point blank:" So, the war's good? Why aren't your kids fighting then? Why don't you tell them what you told me, and send them off to war? Would you like that?"
He started to stammer and stutter, spit -n-sputter!
This guy is never at a loss for words, until then!
Then I said' If you , or your kids, or anyone else, don't want a draft, don't want to fight it... then it must not be worth people dying for!"
He got mad, and said he had to go(on phone).
Have a good one.
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Never directly attack someone's pro Iraq War Viewpoint
Everyone here knows that I disagree with RP on the Iraq War.
But it doesn't matter. The fact that he and Tom Tancredo were the only Republicans who voted against the radical feminist VAWA/IMBRA laws is all he needed to win my vote.
He had me with "hello".
The same can be true with every other red-blooded pro-war male Republican out there.
RP votes "No" on every crazy new law, and it is logical that most new laws are crazy because otherwise they would, after 6000 years of civilization, already exist.
Each one of these outrageous new laws royally pisses at least 100,000 people off...where the war remains just some abstract concept in the back of their minds.
And it probably won't be the Patriot Act that directly hurt them either. It would have been one of many horrifyingly intrusive new laws that the Republicans allowed the Democrats to pass in return for the Dem's cooperation on the distant warfront.
Just ask them what that bothersome law was.
So you don't NEED to convince anyone that the Iraq War was wrong...when they feel otherwise. Just find out which law pissed them off.
Jane Aitken wrote a very good article a few days ago saying that we must NOT bang anyone over the head with needing to vote for RP because of OUR OWN personal reasons for wanting to vote for him. She said that we will do better to find out what the other person hates about our oversized government and let them talk THEMSELVES into wanting to vote for Ron Paul.
She is correct. Her attitude comes right out of a Sales 101 textbook as well. You cannot sell anything by stating why you want to buy it. You have to get the other person to elecute who he or she would want to buy it.
Jane said that a pot smoker cannot go from house to house in NH and tell people to vote for RP because he will make pot legal. The same is true with the Iraq War. You cannot go visit a family with a son proudly fighting in Iraq and start arguing about the war. They will gladly join RP because of the IRS issue or any one of hundreds of good reasons to chose RP over the others. Just ask them what bothers them about government.
http://www.warisaracket.com/
Or...
Explain the 'war' is over. Iraq's military was crushed years ago, their leaders were killed or jailed. If Iraq ever did pose a direct threat to us, they don't anymore. Right or wrong, the role for our military over there is gone.
Explaining the war is over is also a good way to go
Apart from my advice to just get people to want to vote for Ron Paul for their own reasons, regardless of their Iraq War opinion...one can also point out that the Iraq War is over and the good Iraqis have more than another year to enjoy the protection of US troops before they will finally have had to get their own act together (after 6 years).
Tell people that World War Two lasted 3.5 years for the USA and World War One lasted 1 year. The Civil War was 4 years. The Korean War was 3 years. The main part of the Vietnam War was about as long as this war has been.
We don't necessarily need the longest running war in our history. I understand that this has been about "draining the swamp" (luring the stupidest young Islamists to their deaths by the busload), but there comes a time when $1Billion per month is no longer worth it.
You can tell your pro-war friends that it is most likely that the terrorists have gotten the message that another 911-style attack on the USA will not do them any good (if a pro-war Republican male believes like I do that the liberation of Iraq was bad for Al Qaeda, then logically he will have to say that the terrorists would now regret having committed the 911 attacks and would not be so enthusiastic about attacking again).
And, frankly, when members of the NOW say they want to socially reengineer Muslim society to be more feminist-sensitive...I check out of wanting the left wing US State Department to be having too much of the kind of influence (meddling) over there that could really cause blowback.
Hawks vs. Doves
It really would be funny, if it did not involve the lives of our young, bright youth, but I find stange that the very people, such as your friend, who are so eager to fight these conflicts for other nations, do not have a personal, vested intrest in it. I have family and friends in combat, to a person fear every day for the worst news to come. Most will not come out and vocally oppose what is going on, but you can see it in their eyes. They are as dismayed as we are at the mess that the neo-cons have created. Has your friend ever talked to someone who has come back from those contries? Has anyone talked about the glory, the might, the righteous cause that we are advancing? I'll bet not. I could continue my rant endlessly, about the corrupt corporate warmongers who have pocketed Billions upon Billions of taxdollars, while the grunts on the ground went without armament and supplies. I will stop for now. Carry Ron Paul's message of Hope with you as you enjoy Christmas.
Idealism over Reality
Well that's one approach, another is to educate them about the cost and the reasons for the war.
Show them the monetary cost, the human cost, then show them the reasons why we are at war (it's certainly isn't to protect us from the terrorist).
We have to break the ideology and egotism with the reality of the situation, otherwise they will never support an anti-war candidate.
this video might help (sorry I can't quote right)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ
Great New Video!
BrentFromCanada has posted a FANTASTIC new video. This is one that should be on television across the country! Probably the most moving, impactful one I've seen yet. I feel that this one would reach out and grab people as no other ad has.
Sounds Like Mr. Bill
...got the better of Mr. Sluggo this time around.
Good work.
It might help. I am 49 also
It might help. I am 49 also I was Pro war but I damn sure didn't want my kids going to that war I have to boys 19 and 16. (jeeze I kick myself for not seeing that huge contradiction right off the bat, actually I did but ignored it) They were forced to register for selective service or they couldn't get their drivers licenses that really pissed me off. It took awhile and even though I have always been very libertarian leaning however I bought the BS on going to war.
But once I heard Ron Paul was running ( I have been a fan for years) I realized I had let my emotion over being attacked on 9/11 override my reason and all the things I had questioned but still put aside to support the war came to the forefront again and also the fact that I don't want my sons fighting political wars at the whims of globalist elitists really helped me see come back to what I already knew but had put aside.
So Good job you hit him where it hurts and it can't help but make him think. Just consider it a little tough love and hopefully he'll come around.
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If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin. Samuel Adams
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End The Fat
70 pounds lost and counting! Get in shape for the revolution!
Get Prepared!
get him to watch this video
it's outstanding and a new up on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBNLLkG2vhQ
He's a friend?
With friends like that, who needs enemies. I have made tons of friends just working with Ron Paul supporters. Positive, creative, energetic and they want to make this country a better place for America and our children. I no longer am friends with people that are warmongers because quite frankly, they scare the heck out of me.
I second this.
I second this.
Puppets come and puppets go but the world's stage is getting cluttered.
I feel your pain
I understand how you feel about people who love war. There are lots of them where I come from. I deal with it on a daily basis. I believe it is programed into them. I believe that religion has a large part in justifying war, combine that with the propaganda machine and you have a recipe for disaster. I have never fought in a war or been in the military however, I would join to fight, if the war was a just war. If there was a revolution for freedom tomorrow, I would be there. I hold no grudges against our soldiers. I understand poverty and wanting to better themselves with the enticements such as college and enlistment bonuses. Those look pretty good to someone with no chance of ever obtaining them otherwise. Even though, I still believe that there are no winners in war. I can not be a part of killing someone or occupying another country that has really not done anything to this country. I believe we only entice and show our instability as a nation when we rush into war. I still dont believe that all the facts have been given to us about 9/11. Remember when you talk to people, they for the most part dont understand where you are coming from. Its hard to wake people up from a life long lie. You are dealing with years of propoganda they have been fed. Some dont like it when you speak the truth. They like the comfort of the lie its easier.
People love fighting wars
People love fighting wars that they or loved ones don't have to fight.
Thank-You. You got it right.
In fact, your sentence should have been my subject line!
You said it perfectly.
I hope he comes around,
I hope he comes around, we're in a pretty good fight currently.